Future of Lakeside Mall

**Bham1982** · March-09-12, 02:56 PM

Originally Posted by antongast

I think it's telling that almost every defense of Hall Road posted in this thread has included a disclaimer to this effect. Why do we as a society accept the fact that new retail districts are built in a way that almost nobody likes? If people up in Macomb County demand retail, fine, great, give it to them. But jeezus, build it in a way that doesn't give people migraines every time they go near it.

I agree. Modern retail is generally disgusting, and Hall Rd is about as ugly as it gets. Super cheap-looking and soul-crushing.

But it doesn't seem to bother the masses.

**ghettopalmetto** · March-09-12, 03:24 PM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

I agree. Modern retail is generally disgusting, and Hall Rd is about as ugly as it gets. Super cheap-looking and soul-crushing.

But it doesn't seem to bother the masses.

...or the people who excuse such generic architecture.

Here's a tidbit--from 2004. It's amazing how little people refuse to learn in eight years. You guys have fun deluding yourselves in your plastic Schaumburg--Michigan is collapsing around you regardless of how defiant you become.

the way southeast Michigan is growing will either bankrupt communities or lead to the same sort of massive dislocations in the suburbs that Detroit and other cities have already experienced because of crumbling roads and failing infrastructure. This summer SEMCOG published a study that said the region would need $70 billion to maintain its transportation networks until 2030. The agency said only $40 billion is available from current tax funds, meaning that if nothing changes in the financing picture for roads and transit, roughly half the need will not be met.

An earlier SEMCOG study found that serving the region’s water and sewer needs would cost $52 billion over the next generation. Most of the money to meet that need is unaccounted for, and fully 40 percent of the estimate SEMCOG made is to bring water and sewer lines to spur home and business construction in places nobody now lives and are still open fields, forests and wetlands.

“SEMCOG is bleeding us dry,” Barwin says. “We are $30 billion in the red as far as our current transportation infrastructure, and $60 billion if you count water and sewer. That’s a $2 billion per year deficit path these guys are leading us down. And they are supposed to be the experts.”

http://www2.metrotimes.com/editorial/story.asp?id=6627

**iheartthed** · March-09-12, 03:47 PM

Originally Posted by Mikeg

Well, given the fact that most of those million+plus people lived in suburban residential areas within a 15 mile radius of Northland when it was built

lol. A fifteen mile radius around Northland covers nearly the entire city of Detroit and half of Oakland County. That's a pretty useless fact to support whatever claim you're trying to make.

**Mikeg** · March-09-12, 04:08 PM

Originally Posted by iheartthed

lol. A fifteen mile radius around Northland covers nearly the entire city of Detroit and half of Oakland County. That's a pretty useless fact to support whatever claim you're trying to make.

lol, coming from the guy who says "I know for sure..." and makes a claim but begs off providing any supporting evidence because "I don't have the time to research it in detail right now...."

Nonetheless, you have time to respond to subsequent posters while doing your best to avoid discussing the very premise about which you claimed your skepticism.

**Islandman** · March-09-12, 04:53 PM

Man, this thread was good eating, like river rat.

Wow.

**mikeg19** · March-09-12, 08:12 PM

I was told several years ago by a professor in college that Hall Rd would eventually become a sunk in highway, just as it is west of Van Dyke. Any truth to that? Seems they left a ton of room with the median, as well as assuming they could eliminate the left most lane if more room was required.

**Novine** · March-09-12, 08:18 PM

With what money? The only upside to our grossly underfunded transportation system is that most of the massive sprawl boondoggles of years past won't be funded in the future. There's a handful of these projects still in the pipeline, like the Latson Road interchange, that will be built. But nothing of the scale of Hall Road.

**daisy** · July-01-12, 10:36 PM

I would like to offer general comments on Lakeside Mall, Partridge Creek Mall and the M59 corridor. Eddie Bauer [[now located at Partridge Creek) and Talbots moved out of Lakeside Mall. The store Territory Ahead has moved out of Partridge Creek. The store Great Indoors was located directly across from Lakeside Mall [[on M59) and they have moved out. When Great Indoors moved out Garden Ridge moved in. Garden Ridge has moved out [[relocated about 2 miles west on M59) and has been replaced by a Sears discount outlet. The store Linens and Things, previously located at the entry to Lakeside Mall is no longer in business and the building remains vacant except when they open as Halloween City to sell costumes. If Lord and Taylor was ever to move out [[as they did at Fairlane Mall) the decline of the mall will escalate.

The development along M59 is a shame. From M59 and I 94 to M59 and Mound Road there are 3 Walmarts. There are also 2 Targets, 2 Home Depots and 3 McDonalds within approximately 3-4 miles. Need I comment further? In closing I am disheartened that M59 and Gratiot is being considered for a casino site. In the event that this should occur it should not be accepted as true development or progress for a community. It will be a continuation of short sighted planning.

**Gistok** · July-02-12, 01:54 AM

I wouldn't lose ANY sleep over additional casino's in metro Detroit or elsewhere [[non-Indian that is). Between the 3 Detroit casino's and all the Indian casino's, they have the deep pockets to lobby against more. I don't think that the Republican controlled Legislature is keen on the idea either [[except perhaps reps or senators who's boundary are in the areas mentioned.

As for Lakeside... if it downsizes... then they'll just tear down parts of it and make more room for big box stores... it's not going to drag down the area anytime soon.

M-59 should have continued as a freeway from Mound to I-94, with service drives handling the local traffic. The traffic mayhem that is M-59 is a combination of the local traffic and the thru traffic that co-mingle.... into the worst roadway in metro Detroit.

**DetroitPlanner** · July-02-12, 07:21 AM

Wow three Walmarts within a few miles? I thought this area had a pretty good demographic. Maybe its good only for Walmart?

**bailey** · July-02-12, 08:08 AM

I would like to offer general comments on Lakeside Mall, Partridge Creek Mall and the M59 corridor. Eddie Bauer [[now located at Partridge Creek) and Talbots moved out of Lakeside Mall. The store Territory Ahead has moved out of Partridge Creek. The store Great Indoors was located directly across from Lakeside Mall [[on M59) and they have moved out. When Great Indoors moved out Garden Ridge moved in. Garden Ridge has moved out [[relocated about 2 miles west on M59) and has been replaced by a Sears discount outlet. The store Linens and Things, previously located at the entry to Lakeside Mall is no longer in business and the building remains vacant except when they open as Halloween City to sell costumes. If Lord and Taylor was ever to move out [[as they did at Fairlane Mall) the decline of the mall will escalate.

The development along M59 is a shame. From M59 and I 94 to M59 and Mound Road there are 3 Walmarts. There are also 2 Targets, 2 Home Depots and 3 McDonalds within approximately 3-4 miles. Need I comment further? In closing I am disheartened that M59 and Gratiot is being considered for a casino site. In the event that this should occur it should not be accepted as true development or progress for a community. It will be a continuation of short sighted planning.

Honestly, I love M59. I know that if I need something I can probably get it there. I'm not a "shopper", I really sort of hate it actually, so when I am shopping, it's usually for something specific and i know that I can usually find it on M59.

Of course, my favorite part about M59 is that I live no where near it.

**fastcarsandfreedom** · July-02-12, 04:30 PM

I think it's important to point out that The Great Indoors and Linens N Things ceased to exist in totality - all of their locations are gone, M59 corridor included. Eddie Bauer has also drastically reduced it's bricks and mortar footprint nationally, and Talbots has done a considerable amount of "pruning" it's list of locations as well. No idea what L&T's status at Lakeside is - Detroit is one of only a handful of non-coastal markets they stayed in when they went throught their big downsizing...fair to say The Lakeside and Twelve Oaks L&Ts are complimentary - they justify each other's existence to a degree, along with the Clearance store at Great Lakes Crossing. The Lakeside L&T is nice, got a redo not too long ago...much brighter, cleaner, etc than Fairlane ever was.

Originally Posted by daisy

I would like to offer general comments on Lakeside Mall, Partridge Creek Mall and the M59 corridor. Eddie Bauer [[now located at Partridge Creek) and Talbots moved out of Lakeside Mall. The store Territory Ahead has moved out of Partridge Creek. The store Great Indoors was located directly across from Lakeside Mall [[on M59) and they have moved out. When Great Indoors moved out Garden Ridge moved in. Garden Ridge has moved out [[relocated about 2 miles west on M59) and has been replaced by a Sears discount outlet. The store Linens and Things, previously located at the entry to Lakeside Mall is no longer in business and the building remains vacant except when they open as Halloween City to sell costumes. If Lord and Taylor was ever to move out [[as they did at Fairlane Mall) the decline of the mall will escalate.

The development along M59 is a shame. From M59 and I 94 to M59 and Mound Road there are 3 Walmarts. There are also 2 Targets, 2 Home Depots and 3 McDonalds within approximately 3-4 miles. Need I comment further? In closing I am disheartened that M59 and Gratiot is being considered for a casino site. In the event that this should occur it should not be accepted as true development or progress for a community. It will be a continuation of short sighted planning.

**Wheels** · July-02-12, 05:46 PM

^^^^ There is still a Great Indoors in Novi at Fountain Walk.

**DetroitPlanner** · July-02-12, 06:47 PM

Originally Posted by Wheels

^^^^ There is still a Great Indoors in Novi at Fountain Walk.

They closed earlier this year. Sears has closed all of them.

What do we know about Lakeside? Taubman sold it when he opened Partidge Creek. Therefore one can assume Al thinks only one mall can survive long term in that corridor. Al knows more about malls than any of us do.

Incidentally, Al once owned Fountain Walk as well but he sold that long before it opened.

**mtburb** · July-02-12, 08:51 PM

Originally Posted by daisy

The development along M59 is a shame. From M59 and I 94 to M59 and Mound Road there are 3 Walmarts. There are also 2 Targets, 2 Home Depots and 3 McDonalds within approximately 3-4 miles. Need I comment further? In closing I am disheartened that M59 and Gratiot is being considered for a casino site. In the event that this should occur it should not be accepted as true development or progress for a community. It will be a continuation of short sighted planning.

Well, you're speaking of what's along M-59 from I-94 to Mound and that is about a 10 mile distance. On that stretch, there is one Lowe's, one Meijer, one Costco, five Yum Brands-owned restaurants [[one KFC, three Taco Bells [[one inside Lakeside) and one Pizza Hut), one Dunkin Donuts, two Starbucks [[right across the street from each other, one of those is inside Lakeside Mall), one Tim Horton's, two movie theaters [[one inside Partridge Creek that has 14 screens and is owned by a locally-based company and the other has 30 screens and is owned by an out-of-state company) and seven-yes seven-Subways!

And wasn't those Great Indoors closures part of the same move to close 120 Sears and Kmart stores, including 6 in Metro Detroit?

Shollin · July-02-12, 09:18 PM

Why is Hall Road a shame? What else where they going to put in the middle of nowhere? It's not like they destroyed some urban center.

**Hermod** · July-03-12, 03:38 AM

Originally Posted by Shollin

Why is Hall Road a shame? What else where they going to put in the middle of nowhere? It's not like they destroyed some urban center.

Because all of those stores were stolen, STOLEN I TELL YOU, from their rightful owner, downtown Detroit. If the government had been properly run, I tell you, no one would have been allowed to open any commercial facility outside of downtown.

**DetroitPlanner** · July-03-12, 07:21 AM

Originally Posted by Hermod

Because all of those stores were stolen, STOLEN I TELL YOU, from their rightful owner, downtown Detroit. If the government had been properly run, I tell you, no one would have been allowed to open any commercial facility outside of downtown.

Shirley you jest! [[Don't call me Shirley!)

There were lots of stores outside of Downtown Detroit. How about stores in Downtown Pontiac, Mt. Clemens, or Utica? Would these not 'steal' more from them than Downtown Detroit? More shopping was done in the Neighborhoods of Detroit at the height of retailing than there was done downtown. This was a common pattern throughout retail. People shop where it is closest. It is logical. What is not logical is allowing conditions to exist that perpetuated more growth than what was needed.

**ghettopalmetto** · July-03-12, 12:06 PM

Originally Posted by Shollin

Why is Hall Road a shame? What else where they going to put in the middle of nowhere? It's not like they destroyed some urban center.

Why did "they" have to put anything in that area? There were plenty of good farms and orchards that were permanently destroyed for the sake of this "progress".

Of course, let's not forget all the public money MDOT spent to become complicit in this "economic development" arrangement.

Shollin · July-03-12, 05:28 PM

Originally Posted by ghettopalmetto

Why did "they" have to put anything in that area? There were plenty of good farms and orchards that were permanently destroyed for the sake of this "progress".

Of course, let's not forget all the public money MDOT spent to become complicit in this "economic development" arrangement.

Probably because there is a demand for it. Believe it or not there are people outside of this forum who don't want to live in a dense urban city and have to shop in downtown Detroit.

**Hermod** · July-03-12, 07:58 PM

Originally Posted by ghettopalmetto

Why did "they" have to put anything in that area? There were plenty of good farms and orchards that were permanently destroyed for the sake of this "progress".

Not really "good farms" as most of the farms in that area were "truck farms' which are marginally profitable [[make it in the city, spend it on the farm) with the farmer doing his farming around his 'day job". Along comes a developer and offers money enough for him to retire in exchange for his forty acres.

I watched Rochester develop from a farm town to a junior league Birmingham by just that process. When we moved to Rochester, you could still take four years of vo-tech agriculture in the high school and the FFA [[Future Farmers of America) was the biggest club in school. Case's hardware still sold tack. One by one the farmers sold out and the land was converted to the "best and highest use". Juengel Farms subdivision just off Rochester Road south of Auburn was once one of the largest apple orchards in the area.

**KJ5** · July-03-12, 09:44 PM

12 Starbucks, 11 KFCs, 10 Mickey D's, 9 CVSs, 8 Taco Bells, 7 Mobil gas stations, 6 Dunkin Donuts, 5 Wa-a-al-Marts, 4 Home Depots, 3 Meijers, 2 Costcos and an upscale Partridge Creek Mall!
The hell with all that soulless, unsustainable corporate crap. M-59 is an unwalkable, unbikeable monstrosity. If people have any sense Lakeside Mall will be a part of Lowell's ruins tour in 25 years.

**Detroitej72** · July-04-12, 09:42 AM

Originally Posted by ghettopalmetto

Of course, let's not forget all the public money MDOT spent to become complicit in this "economic development" arrangement.

Of coarse you don't hear a word of protest from the anti-tax, tea-party crowd, many of whom live around there. Their hypocrisy is astounding because they only complain when federal money is spent rebuilding the infrastructure for lower income people.

**MikeM** · July-13-12, 01:34 PM

By Dunham-Jones' count, today about a third of our existing malls are "dead" or dying. That’s not to say they’re mostly vacant. But they have dreadful sales per square foot. High-end dress stores have moved out, and tattoo parlors have replaced them – "things," Dunham-Jones says, "that would normally be considered way too déclassé for a mall."

http://www.theatlanticcities.com/art...s-retire/2568/

**DetroitPlanner** · July-13-12, 02:35 PM

Originally Posted by MikeM

http://www.theatlanticcities.com/art...s-retire/2568/

That top pic just screams "Taubman Mall!"

Thats a great article. I've read books written by Gruen, he was motivated primarilly by improving City Centers. He certainly had some wild ideas and is chiefly responsible for why places like Houston and Fort Worth looked like towers in a sea of parking lots for so long. I've visited all of his works in Michigan as well as the mall he was most proud of in Downtown Rochester, NY. His vision was very interesting.