Future of Lakeside Mall

[poobert]

Yes, but don't you understand? THOSE people [[and there progeny) who moved out of Detroit , oh 30 to 40 yrs ago, don't deserve to be prosperous. They should be punished for exercising their right to live where they like because where they like isn't Detroit. So, close your eyes, click you heels three times, say "There's no place like the D" and all the businesses on Hall Rd and environs will be obliterated along with the hopes, dreams and McMansions of all those deserters.

Where did you find that in this thread? Show me.

[jcole]

If these malls were on Woodward a mile apart, this thread never would have been started. No matter how bad the traffic was, it would be seen as a blessing and deserved. Because it's in the suburbs, it's neither. It's somehow wrong that they even exist and that they are patronized quite generously.

[ResurgetCineribus]

People still want to shop at these malls, they are not going anywhere any time soon, just like going to the movies, going to the mall is a experience, it give people something to do. How much fun is it to never leave your home and just buy shit on-line, people need to get out. No wonder all these kids are so over weight, they trade playing basketball outside to playing basketball on ps3.

I remember living out in Macomb County. Go to the mall, or go to the movies. Lakeside Mall is practically an institution out there.

[jcole]

Where did you find that in this thread? Show me.

Kind of hard to point out things when posts suddenly disappear because they don't mesh with the general point of view of the powers that be and anyway, where did I say it was in THIS thread? There have been thousands of threads over the years.

[noise]

I remember living out in Macomb County. Go to the mall, or go to the movies. Lakeside Mall is practically an institution out there.

What's different in any other county?

I grew up in Romeo. I rarely spent time at Lakeside Mall, unless I needed to purchase something. I had plenty to do. Maybe people need a hobby?

[iheartthed]

If these malls were on Woodward a mile apart, this thread never would have been started. No matter how bad the traffic was, it would be seen as a blessing and deserved. Because it's in the suburbs, it's neither. It's somehow wrong that they even exist and that they are patronized quite generously.

I think the same people would still be complaining for the same reasons, maybe even more loudly if the malls were in Detroit. Hall Rd was not dictated by market forces. Instead, it was dictated by private developers who were in cahoots with the latest Maybury that wanted to be the premier retail destination. This is no different than Livonia 50 years ago or Southfield 40 years ago or Troy 30 years ago or Novi 20 years ago or Canton 10 years ago.

[poobert]

Kind of hard to point out things when posts suddenly disappear because they don't mesh with the general point of view of the powers that be and anyway, where did I say it was in THIS thread? There have been thousands of threads over the years.

That's what I thought. Thanks for playing!

[jcole]

Well, you're most welcome, but I don't recall ever having played with you.

[bartock]

I think the same people would still be complaining for the same reasons, maybe even more loudly if the malls were in Detroit. Hall Rd was not dictated by market forces. Instead, it was dictated by private developers who were in cahoots with the latest Maybury that wanted to be the premier retail destination. This is no different than Livonia 50 years ago or Southfield 40 years ago or Troy 30 years ago or Novi 20 years ago or Canton 10 years ago.

That statement doesn't make any sense.

[Danny]

Lakeside Mall will survive. I have been there over the weekend and still bustling with people. The mall still has the advantage during rainy and stormy days and has a excellent Food Court and traditional storefronts. Lord and Taylor is still in business and is two separate Macy's stores.

[mtburb]

And here's a list of some other area malls and their lifespans according to poobert's math:

Northland: 1954-2004 [[would be dead today)
Eastland: 1957-2007 [[would be dead today)
Wonderland: 1959-2009 [[already died, though in 2005)
Summit Place: 1962-2012 [[would be dead this year)
Macomb: 1964-2014 [[two years left)
Universal: 1964-2014 [[two years left)
Livonia: 1964-2014 [[already died, though in 2009)
Westland: 1965-2015 [[three years left)
Tel-Twelve: 1968-2018 [[already died)
Oakland: 1968-2018 [[six years left)
Somerset Collection: South 1969-2019; north 1996-2046 [[South has seven years left; north has 34 years left)
Southland: 1970-2020 [[eight years left)
Briarwood: 1973-2023 [[11 years left)
Fairlane: 1976-2026 [[14 years left)
Twelve Oaks: 1977-2027 [[15 years left)
Horizon Outlet Center, Monroe: 1987-2037 [[25 years left)
Laurel Park Place: 1989-2039 [[27 years left)
Birchwood: 1990-2040 [[28 years left)
Kensington Valley Factory Shops: 1996-2046 [[34 years left)
Great Lakes Crossing: 1998-2048 [[36 years left)

What would you think?

[iheartthed]

That statement doesn't make any sense.

What about it doesn't make sense?

[mikeg19]

Lakeside Mall will survive. I have been there over the weekend and still bustling with people. The mall still has the advantage during rainy and stormy days and has a excellent Food Court and traditional storefronts. Lord and Taylor is still in business and is two separate Macy's stores.

It will survive until they finally put a mall in the vicinity of 26 and Mound/Van Dyke area like has been bandied about for years. All the Washington/Romeo/Macomb Twp/Shelby Twp residents will abandon Lakeside rather quickly I'd expect. There was a mass exodus it seemed to The Village in Rochester when that opened back when I was in high school. But I will agree it does have the bad weather appeal that a open air mall can't compete with.

[jcole]

It will survive until they finally put a mall in the vicinity of 26 and Mound/Van Dyke area like has been bandied about for years. All the Washington/Romeo/Macomb Twp/Shelby Twp residents will abandon Lakeside rather quickly I'd expect. There was a mass exodus it seemed to The Village in Rochester when that opened back when I was in high school. But I will agree it does have the bad weather appeal that a open air mall can't compete with.

26 and Mound is pretty close to the Stony Creek entrance, so I don't see a mall there; 26 and Van Dyke already has a Target, Meijer, Home Depot, Kohls, and assorted other stores, but I don't see the same stores on Hall Rd or in Rochester/Rochester Hills suffering over much. They have talked about putting a Wal Mart and a mall up at 32 and Van Dyke, in Romeo, for a number of years now, but I haven't seen any action in that respect and I lived near there for 36 yrs, up to last week. It seems a little close to the 23 and Van Dyke Walmart, but I'm sure it will be supported adequately as is the one on 23 and the one on Mound and 59. There is more than enough shopping traffic in that area to support a lot of stuff. Don't forget that there is very little retail past the 26 and Van Dyke area up until you get to Lapeer or Port Huron. Those people need to shop too. Most of those little towns don't have much more that a grocery store, a drug store and a plethora of gas stations and bars. Almont even lacks the grocer.

[Wheels]

What about it doesn't make sense?

None of it.

[stromberg2]

Horizon in Monroe isn't doing so hot.

Stromberg2

[poobert]

And here's a list of some other area malls and their lifespans according to poobert's math:

Northland: 1954-2004 [[would be dead today)
Eastland: 1957-2007 [[would be dead today)
Wonderland: 1959-2009 [[already died, though in 2005)
Summit Place: 1962-2012 [[would be dead this year)
Macomb: 1964-2014 [[two years left)
Universal: 1964-2014 [[two years left)
Livonia: 1964-2014 [[already died, though in 2009)
Westland: 1965-2015 [[three years left)
Tel-Twelve: 1968-2018 [[already died)
Oakland: 1968-2018 [[six years left)
Somerset Collection: South 1969-2019; north 1996-2046 [[South has seven years left; north has 34 years left)
Southland: 1970-2020 [[eight years left)
Briarwood: 1973-2023 [[11 years left)
Fairlane: 1976-2026 [[14 years left)
Twelve Oaks: 1977-2027 [[15 years left)
Horizon Outlet Center, Monroe: 1987-2037 [[25 years left)
Laurel Park Place: 1989-2039 [[27 years left)
Birchwood: 1990-2040 [[28 years left)
Kensington Valley Factory Shops: 1996-2046 [[34 years left)
Great Lakes Crossing: 1998-2048 [[36 years left)

What would you think?

You're right, my math was way off, not an absolute formula. Look at the first 8 or so malls though, and their environs. Not doing so hot, eh? I'm not saying abolish malls and the suburbs. Do any of you really think we need that many goddamn malls? Even I was astounded by the length of that list. And that doesn't count big box stores and strip malls. Most of those malls were built after Metro Detroit stopped growing in the 1970's. So we needed ten more malls, and to pave G-d knows how many acres of orchards and farmland for subdivisions for no more population? Again - live where you want, but can't our government be smarter about our development?

[Scottathew]

Universal: 1964-2014 [[two years left)

Universal Mall died. Although a new developer took over and did some great stuff with the land. There's now a series of strip malls anchored by a Target that moved from a half mile down the road.

It looks nice, but there's still a lot of empty space in it.

[kraig]

Lakeside Mall is a good place to go and so is Partridge Creek. If you don't like Hall Rd, Schoenher and Hayes are very good alternatives for Lakeside and Garfield Rd is a good alternative for Partridge Creek. Both Malls will survive for a long time. What's more disturbing to me right now is that Detroit does things so fucked up that we can't even get a Meijers.

[bartock]

None of it.

I suppose the specious argument is that the government built the infrastructure to allow this to happen in a never-ending froth and fervor driven desire to move everything out of Detroit. Unfortunately, as has been pointed out here, and as you and New York clearly know, Hall Road's expansion was built out of demand...people were already moving out there in droves. Yes, developers came to these "wanna-be Mayberry's" because that is where the people and money were and were moving to. So, to say that Hall Rd. was not dictated by market forces is fairly eyeball-gougingly confounding, unless one is to argue that NOTHING that exists today is dictated by market forces because EVERYTHING, it seems, is in one way or another, a direct or indirect product of a subsidy [[we can look at the current "demand" in Downtown Detroit, for example, if we are going to "go there.")

[ghettopalmetto]

I suppose the specious argument is that the government built the infrastructure to allow this to happen in a never-ending froth and fervor driven desire to move everything out of Detroit. Unfortunately, as has been pointed out here, and as you and New York clearly know, Hall Road's expansion was built out of demand...people were already moving out there in droves. Yes, developers came to these "wanna-be Mayberry's" because that is where the people and money were and were moving to. So, to say that Hall Rd. was not dictated by market forces is fairly eyeball-gougingly confounding, unless one is to argue that NOTHING that exists today is dictated by market forces because EVERYTHING, it seems, is in one way or another, a direct or indirect product of a subsidy [[we can look at the current "demand" in Downtown Detroit, for example, if we are going to "go there.")

So, how many people lived in the Hall Road area before the road was widened into a highway, public utilities constructed, and schools, fire, and police protection provided?

In other words--were PEOPLE clamoring to live in the Hall Road area, or were the DEVELOPERS clamoring to pave over the orchards? I ask this, because people generally don't "demand" to live in open fields with no roads, water, sewer, electricity, schools, or fire and police protection.

[iheartthed]

I suppose the specious argument is that the government built the infrastructure to allow this to happen in a never-ending froth and fervor driven desire to move everything out of Detroit. Unfortunately, as has been pointed out here, and as you and New York clearly know, Hall Road's expansion was built out of demand...people were already moving out there in droves. Yes, developers came to these "wanna-be Mayberry's" because that is where the people and money were and were moving to. So, to say that Hall Rd. was not dictated by market forces is fairly eyeball-gougingly confounding, unless one is to argue that NOTHING that exists today is dictated by market forces because EVERYTHING, it seems, is in one way or another, a direct or indirect product of a subsidy [[we can look at the current "demand" in Downtown Detroit, for example, if we are going to "go there.")

Show me where I said anything about Hall Road competing directly with Detroit? I doubt any of the stores along Hall Rd have ever had a location in Detroit, especially if the company is less than 30 years old. What I am saying is that Hall Rd was not driven by market demand... Or at least market demand for more retail in Metropolitan Detroit. Every new business along Hall Rd is coming at the expensive of some inner ring suburb that was the Hall Rd of the 1980s or 1990s.

[Scottathew]

What I am saying is that Hall Rd was not driven by market demand... Or at least market demand for more retail in Metropolitan Detroit.

I don't agree. Why else would developers build there if there was no demand for products and services?

Hall Road has been planned out for a while by the State. It's had a huge ROW, and I would imagine one day they may consider extending the M-59 freeway out to I-94.

The state's growing population [[back in the day), white flight, and people wanting more space have driven all this.

I currently live near 10\Mound, and this has all effected the area I live in. Universal Mall is dead, and the next two closest malls I don't go to because they're too trashy.

I too have plans to move further out, to probably Royal Oak\Clawson\Troy, but I don't ever want to live near M-59, that's too far away from my job in Detroit.

[iheartthed]

I don't agree. Why else would developers build there if there was no demand for products and services?

Well, developers are in the business of building and if they aren't building then they aren't making money. In a region with no population growth this means that much of the development is zero-sum: each new development comes at the expense of an older development.

Hall Road has been planned out for a while by the State. It's had a huge ROW, and I would imagine one day they may consider extending the M-59 freeway out to I-94.

Because your politicians work in the favor of deep pocketed developers.

The state's growing population [[back in the day), white flight, and people wanting more space have driven all this.

I currently live near 10\Mound, and this has all effected the area I live in. Universal Mall is dead, and the next two closest malls I don't go to because they're too trashy.

I too have plans to move further out, to probably Royal Oak\Clawson\Troy, but I don't ever want to live near M-59, that's too far away from my job in Detroit.

Well, you just confirmed my point.

[bartock]

So, how many people lived in the Hall Road area before the road was widened into a highway, public utilities constructed, and schools, fire, and police protection provided?

In other words--were PEOPLE clamoring to live in the Hall Road area, or were the DEVELOPERS clamoring to pave over the orchards? I ask this, because people generally don't "demand" to live in open fields with no roads, water, sewer, electricity, schools, or fire and police protection.

Where people wish to live and where developers wish to develop usually go hand in hand. As to the infrastructure part, it would be disingenuous not to admit that there are definitely chicken/egg elements, but I would suggest that is fairly universal, and could just as easily be applied to anything. To suggest that there wasn't demand would be in error.