Detroit Council proposing drastic cuts to various city services

[Novine]

San Diego, CA is a perfect example of a large city run by Republicans that's run itself into a fiscal disaster. I believe the current Council is now majority Democrats but for years, the Mayor and Council majority were Republicans.

[coracle]

San Diego, CA is a perfect example of a large city run by Republicans that's run itself into a fiscal disaster. I believe the current Council is now majority Democrats but for years, the Mayor and Council majority were Republicans.

I don't think you can make a comparison with Detroit no matter when and how badly they ran it [[if they did) because since 1969 to 2010 the San Diego population rose from 682,000 to 1.2 Million and the recent murder rate was 29 per year. San Diego Homicide Rate Continues To Drop - San Diego News Story - KGTV San Diego

[Novine]

Running your city into bankruptcy is OK as long as no one gets killed?

[Hypestyles]

...Butler [[isn't he retired from Word of Faith?), if on the council today, would likely uplift the hyper-moralistic issues like banning strip clubs.. not sure what he'd really contribute in terms of finding ways for improving city services.. same with any of the other megachurch pastors..

[stasu1213]

Keith Butler probably would had probably not go along with the cuts that Pugh and others are proposing. I am not saying that he was perfect. I think that his heart was more in the right place unlike the very inexperience coucil members that we have now. I had stated on the other site that their cutting police, fire, and EMS services had caused residence grief including unfortunately our city council president. EMS not arriving on time where families have to drive their loved ones to the hospital themselves or watch their loved ones or collegue die while waiting for one. This is not the fault of the police, fire, and emergency personel. This is the fault of so-called city politcal leaders making irresponsible cuts to these services instead of having the casinoes and corporation's revenue to fund these services. My prayers goes out to the Pugh family for the loss of his brother. Charlie LeDuff had reported that the Mayor's office and Charles Pugh had been quiet on the fact that EMS was unable to show in a timiley manner and other police officers had to escort Charles Pugh's brother to the hospital. I wasn't expecting the council president to respond for he is grieving. The Mayor and other council members should had responded to the media pertaining to this tragedy.

[mam2009]

Keith Butler probably would had probably not go along with the cuts that Pugh and others are proposing. I am not saying that he was perfect. I think that his heart was more in the right place unlike the very inexperience coucil members that we have now. I had stated on the other site that their cutting police, fire, and EMS services had caused residence grief including unfortunately our city council president. EMS not arriving on time where families have to drive their loved ones to the hospital themselves or watch their loved ones or collegue die while waiting for one. This is not the fault of the police, fire, and emergency personel. This is the fault of so-called city politcal leaders making irresponsible cuts to these services instead of having the casinoes and corporation's revenue to fund these services. My prayers goes out to the Pugh family for the loss of his brother. Charlie LeDuff had reported that the Mayor's office and Charles Pugh had been quiet on the fact that EMS was unable to show in a timiley manner and other police officers had to escort Charles Pugh's brother to the hospital. I wasn't expecting the council president to respond for he is grieving. The Mayor and other council members should had responded to the media pertaining to this tragedy.

A. I don't know anything about Keith Butler, but since he is a Republican, I can't imagine he wouldn't want to cut the budget just like Republicans on the state & federal government level.

B. I don't recall how much the Council cut the budgets of the DPD, Fire & EMS, but I DO recall that those unions refused to take the 10% paycut that ALL other City employees took three years ago. If the City has less tax revenue, to get a balanced budget it has to cut expenses.

C. The newspaper account I saw said it only took the EMS 10 minutes to get there. Do you have some inside information that contradicts that? Lord knows I don't believe everything I read in the paper, but it seems that if the media CAN sensationalize a story, they normally will.

[Buy American]

People have to stop blaming the unions for the situation Detroit is in today.
Police and Fire did not receive any raises in 2008 and nothing has changed since then. Now, the City is asking them to take another 10% cut in salaries which would equal 20%....also they want more money to pay insurance premiums. Police/fire are down to bare bones. I know many firemen and policemen who are purchasing their own equipment because the City isn't paying their bills to the vendors. You can't expect people to continue to take cuts when everything is going up in cost. Also, remember one important thing....police and fire personnel aren't going to the office to do menial jobs, they leave their homes every day and don't know if they are coming back. Put yourself in their place and see if you'd go out there for $25,000 to 30,000 to start!

[mam2009]

People have to stop blaming the unions for the situation Detroit is in today.
Police and Fire did not receive any raises in 2008 and nothing has changed since then. Now, the City is asking them to take another 10% cut in salaries which would equal 20%....also they want more money to pay insurance premiums. Police/fire are down to bare bones. I know many firemen and policemen who are purchasing their own equipment because the City
isn't paying their bills to the vendors. You can't expect people to continue to take cuts when everything is going up in cost. Also, remember one important thing....police and fire personnel aren't going to the office to do menial jobs, they leave their homes every day and don't know if they are coming back. Put yourself in their place and see if you'd go out there for $25,000 to 30,000 to start!

I sympathize with Police & Fire's point of view, Buy America. I really do. But nearly all of the other unions took pay CUTS in 2008. And those workers aren't paid any better than police officers & probably don't have the same opportunities for overtime. I wasn't maliciously laying blame, but the bottom line is everyone has to do their part -- E
everyone.

[Buy American]

I would venture to guess that not everyone took pay cuts in 2008, especially those in administration, the appointees, and friends and family. The bottom line is that cutting wages and health benefit premiums will not solve the problem in Detroit, you and I both know this. Any incentive to pay home taxes [[that will boost Detroit's funds) has all but blown out the broken windows when Wayne County is now offering squatters the option to purchase homes for $500. This is telling the good, taxpaying group that it's okay to skip paying taxes, you'll get a break some where down the line.

I see and hear and remember what it was like to work in Detroit. I know some of the intricate comings and goings of the administration and I know I don't like what I see.

Everyone has done their part to get Detroit solvent, but from 2008 until today, nothing has changed and it's become much worse. You can't expect people who work for Detroit to continue to shoulder the burden of those on the 13th floor of the CAY building and their mismanagement, their thievery, their extortion of others, the criminals who are still handling the financial aspect of Detroit. Detroiters may not have to worry about an EM too much because whatever police department or fire department or EMS Division is left will leave....because when a janitor or a jr. clerk is making as much as a starting police officer, that's a crying shame.

I'm ranting and I'm sorry.

[Islandman]

I would venture to guess that not everyone took pay cuts in 2008, especially those in administration, the appointees, and friends and family. The bottom line is that cutting wages and health benefit premiums will not solve the problem in Detroit, you and I both know this. Any incentive to pay home taxes [[that will boost Detroit's funds) has all but blown out the broken windows when Wayne County is now offering squatters the option to purchase homes for $500. This is telling the good, taxpaying group that it's okay to skip paying taxes, you'll get a break some where down the line.

I see and hear and remember what it was like to work in Detroit. I know some of the intricate comings and goings of the administration and I know I don't like what I see.

Everyone has done their part to get Detroit solvent, but from 2008 until today, nothing has changed and it's become much worse. You can't expect people who work for Detroit to continue to shoulder the burden of those on the 13th floor of the CAY building and their mismanagement, their thievery, their extortion of others, the criminals who are still handling the financial aspect of Detroit. Detroiters may not have to worry about an EM too much because whatever police department or fire department or EMS Division is left will leave....because when a janitor or a jr. clerk is making as much as a starting police officer, that's a crying shame.

I'm ranting and I'm sorry.

BA,

I agree that it is a shame, but one fact is true: You don't have to be a pilice officer or fireman if it's not financially viable. No one is amking you do it, and there are plenty of other places to go be a fireman or police officer if doing it in Detroit is excessively unsafe.

It was the same when I was in the military, crappy hours and pay, away from home, etc. the one thing that rung true is that everyone chose to do it.

I understand if a lot of these changes end up happening after years on the job, but if anyone working for the city of Detroit [[or living in the city) didn't see these changes coming from years ago, they have no one to blame but themselves. There are many working people that don't have even the limited protection of a union in their careers. You have to try to roll with the punches.

[SWMAP]

I stand with St. paul who wrote that "a workman deserves his pay." And I infer that he means that the pay be just and allied with the services the workman provides to the community and the skill-set and guts it takes to provide that service as well as the relative impact of employment on life and happiness.

I know a few cops. They were young when they got into it and were idealistic boys. They saw themselves as knights. But the realities of coping with the worst of degradation, filth, inhumanity to fellow man, etc. wears idealistic young people down. It hurts their marriages and relationship with their kids. But they have a job and they do it. Many grow old and retire. And lately, in increasing numbers, many are blown away by the other side.

Firefighters also put their lives on the line [[and increasingly with poor supplies and rigs) but they have a job, years invested, certifications earned, and they do their job - even if life-long paralysis looms as it does for a recent injured young father and Detroit fire-fighter.

I contrast those services and contributions with those of run-of-the mill city employees: refuse collectors, lawn mowers, clerks in accounting, water shut-off people and meter readers - and I conclude that th police and firefighters derserve a higher pay standard and, having made already many financial give-backs, shouldn't feel compelled to make more.

And as to the really careless assertion above, that no one asked these guys to be policemen and they should go somewhere else - who exactly do you think will take their places? Who will work for low pay, no protections, with bad supplies? The City tried hiring felons once for these jobs because its pretty hard to get residents with no records - but that was a disaster.

The military is not a good comparison. As most of us know, the army is the placement of last resort for directionless young people. Detroit Fire and Police Department shouldn't try to be that.

[Islandman]

I stand with St. paul who wrote that "a workman deserves his pay." And I infer that he means that the pay be just and allied with the services the workman provides to the community and the skill-set and guts it takes to provide that service as well as the relative impact of employment on life and happiness.

I know a few cops. They were young when they got into it and were idealistic boys. They saw themselves as knights. But the realities of coping with the worst of degradation, filth, inhumanity to fellow man, etc. wears idealistic young people down. It hurts their marriages and relationship with their kids. But they have a job and they do it. Many grow old and retire. And lately, in increasing numbers, many are blown away by the other side.

Firefighters also put their lives on the line [[and increasingly with poor supplies and rigs) but they have a job, years invested, certifications earned, and they do their job - even if life-long paralysis looms as it does for a recent injured young father and Detroit fire-fighter.

I contrast those services and contributions with those of run-of-the mill city employees: refuse collectors, lawn mowers, clerks in accounting, water shut-off people and meter readers - and I conclude that th police and firefighters derserve a higher pay standard and, having made already many financial give-backs, shouldn't feel compelled to make more.

And as to the really careless assertion above, that no one asked these guys to be policemen and they should go somewhere else - who exactly do you think will take their places? Who will work for low pay, no protections, with bad supplies? The City tried hiring felons once for these jobs because its pretty hard to get residents with no records - but that was a disaster.

The military is not a good comparison. As most of us know, the army is the placement of last resort for directionless young people. Detroit Fire and Police Department shouldn't try to be that.

My assertion is not careless. My best friend is at DPD, and this is affecting him. Again, one chooses what one does for work. I'm not saying that they should pack up and leave, you misunderstand. My point is that if you just HAVE to be a firefighter or police officer, Detroit isn't the only place to do that.

Ar for your generalized statement about the military, I'll keep my comments to myself.