Detroit Council proposing drastic cuts to various city services

[mam2009]

You're correct.

We cant blame JUST Democrats or Kwame or Young, Miriani, Mahaffey or Pugh.

I'm saying that the conservative leaning parties have given up trying to practice politics in Detroit. Avoidance or rejection is [has been] their prevailing lean when it comes to the city.My view? That's an absence of a balls to try.

Single sets of ideas, especially in a legislative setting, are never good.

Tying in to the prevailing topic of this thread- I would be thrilled to see a Republican run for city council. I think it would have been nice if some of these cuts were made 5-10-20 years ago and Republicans tend to do that.



...i'm rational most days.

What makes you so sure that there's no Republican on the Council now? Council elections are non-partisan. Keith Butler was a Republican when he served on the Council. Its not unheard of. The only problem for Republicans: You gotta live here to get elected here.

[Buy American]

And I'm also certain Michigan's homophobic view on the gay community is helping to hold down Detroit's comeback as well [[who tend to thrive in urban environment, and even tend to revive them in their own way).

Is that based on fact or just a random thought? If this was true, how did Pugh become council President when he is openly gay?

[GoGrixdale]

True there's no declared partisanship in the council election but, perceptually, Republicans don't want to participate. When I look at the governance of other municipalities [[from the outside) it seems to work better when there is at least some partisan dissension to keep balance.

To be honest I did forget about Butler.

[rex]

I dont see the city council as helping anyone but themselves. In fact. They are probably mad as hell that they aren't able to pervert or abuse their positions to a similar level as their predecessors. Corruption in Detroit administration really seems to reach every nook and cranny and for brevity I wont list or discuss it further. I know you know. But back when Detroit had more tax base the 80s and 90s.... That city council position was a little money printing factory. Now their every move is under scrutiny and lets face it. There isnt much left to steal. Back then there was a lot. Now what little is left is being eyed by enough people that city council cant just do what they please. I bet they think about it all the time. I bet it pisses them off like you wouldnt believe.

[jolla]

I dont see the city council as helping anyone but themselves. In fact. They are probably mad as hell that they aren't able to pervert or abuse their positions to a similar level as their predecessors. Corruption in Detroit administration really seems to reach every nook and cranny and for brevity I wont list or discuss it further. I know you know. But back when Detroit had more tax base the 80s and 90s.... That city council position was a little money printing factory. Now their every move is under scrutiny and lets face it. There isnt much left to steal. Back then there was a lot. Now what little is left is being eyed by enough people that city council cant just do what they please. I bet they think about it all the time. I bet it pisses them off like you wouldnt believe.

A smart parasite doesn't kill its host.

[Zacha341]

The shrinking funds "left to steal".... Yeah, someone should have mentioned this to Ficano as he was winding-open-a-can in terms of spending fest!! He kinda came in late to the party it could be argued...

Yep, the "friends and family" justification went along with the largess of moneys to divert for uses other than intended! It must have seemed an infinite piggy bank. After all, everyone 'steals' went the reasoning...

There isnt much left to steal. Back then there was a lot. Now what little is left is being eyed by enough people....

[313WX]

how did Pugh become council President when he is openly gay?

Name recognition.

That was easy one though.

[mam2009]

True there's no declared partisanship in the council election but, perceptually, Republicans don't want to participate. When I look at the governance of other municipalities [[from the outside) it seems to work better when there is at least some partisan dissension to keep balance.To be honest I did forget about Butler.

I think its a pretty safe bet to say that there aren't enough Republicans living in Detroit to get elected which goes back to my earlier comment about the original reasons why people began to leave Detroit between 1950 & 1960. You have to actually LIVE in Detroit in order to get elected. Since large numbers of Republicans have no desire to live here, Public Act 4 is the only way Republicans will get to control what happens in Detroit.

[mam2009]

I dont see the city council as helping anyone but themselves. In fact. They are probably mad as hell that they aren't able to pervert or abuse their positions to a similar level as their predecessors. Corruption in Detroit administration really seems to reach every nook and cranny and for brevity I wont list or discuss it further. I know you know. But back when Detroit had more tax base the 80s and 90s.... That city council position was a little money printing factory. Now their every move is under scrutiny and lets face it. There isnt much left to steal. Back then there was a lot. Now what little is left is being eyed by enough people that city council cant just do what they please. I bet they think about it all the time. I bet it pisses them off like you wouldnt believe.

Here we go again...just when we had reached a level of civil discourse and debate on this thread. A venomous rhetoric pusher arrives...geez.

[rex]

Here we go again...just when we had reached a level of civil discourse and debate on this thread. Here's a venomous rhetoric pusher arrives...geez.

Embarrassed resignation is not an excuse to ignore the infractions of an elected few.

[Novine]

San Diego, CA is a perfect example of a large city run by Republicans that's run itself into a fiscal disaster. I believe the current Council is now majority Democrats but for years, the Mayor and Council majority were Republicans.

[stasu1213]

True there's no declared partisanship in the council election but, perceptually, Republicans don't want to participate. When I look at the governance of other municipalities [[from the outside) it seems to work better when there is at least some partisan dissension to keep balance.

To be honest I did forget about Butler.

I would rather have Keith Butler on the council than Charles Pugh. Pugh doesn't have the head or mind for financing. That is why he is having a hard time paying his rent and giving pay raises to someone who probably never had been a secretary. Butler was a much better councilman than four of the council together

[coracle]

San Diego, CA is a perfect example of a large city run by Republicans that's run itself into a fiscal disaster. I believe the current Council is now majority Democrats but for years, the Mayor and Council majority were Republicans.

I don't think you can make a comparison with Detroit no matter when and how badly they ran it [[if they did) because since 1969 to 2010 the San Diego population rose from 682,000 to 1.2 Million and the recent murder rate was 29 per year. San Diego Homicide Rate Continues To Drop - San Diego News Story - KGTV San Diego

[Novine]

Running your city into bankruptcy is OK as long as no one gets killed?

[firstandten]

I would rather have Keith Butler on the council than Charles Pugh. Pugh doesn't have the head or mind for financing. That is why he is having a hard time paying his rent and giving pay raises to someone who probably never had been a secretary. Butler was a much better councilman than four of the council together

Maybe so, but a person has to want the position. No sense in talking about somebody who doesn't want to do it.

[mam2009]

Embarrassed resignation is not an excuse to ignore the infractions of an elected few.

So criticize the few, rather than painting the entire institution and all its participants as corrupt. And when you criticize the few, be a well-INFORMED critic.

[coracle]

Running your city into bankruptcy is OK as long as no one gets killed?

You must be joking to ask such a question. Of course it is. You can recover from bankruptcy.

[313WX]

You must be joking to ask such a question. Of course it is. You can recover from bankruptcy.

Not necessarily. All bankruptcies aren't the same.

I doubt Detroit [[as is) will recover from a bankruptcy.

[Hypestyles]

...Butler [[isn't he retired from Word of Faith?), if on the council today, would likely uplift the hyper-moralistic issues like banning strip clubs.. not sure what he'd really contribute in terms of finding ways for improving city services.. same with any of the other megachurch pastors..

[stasu1213]

Keith Butler probably would had probably not go along with the cuts that Pugh and others are proposing. I am not saying that he was perfect. I think that his heart was more in the right place unlike the very inexperience coucil members that we have now. I had stated on the other site that their cutting police, fire, and EMS services had caused residence grief including unfortunately our city council president. EMS not arriving on time where families have to drive their loved ones to the hospital themselves or watch their loved ones or collegue die while waiting for one. This is not the fault of the police, fire, and emergency personel. This is the fault of so-called city politcal leaders making irresponsible cuts to these services instead of having the casinoes and corporation's revenue to fund these services. My prayers goes out to the Pugh family for the loss of his brother. Charlie LeDuff had reported that the Mayor's office and Charles Pugh had been quiet on the fact that EMS was unable to show in a timiley manner and other police officers had to escort Charles Pugh's brother to the hospital. I wasn't expecting the council president to respond for he is grieving. The Mayor and other council members should had responded to the media pertaining to this tragedy.

[mam2009]

Keith Butler probably would had probably not go along with the cuts that Pugh and others are proposing. I am not saying that he was perfect. I think that his heart was more in the right place unlike the very inexperience coucil members that we have now. I had stated on the other site that their cutting police, fire, and EMS services had caused residence grief including unfortunately our city council president. EMS not arriving on time where families have to drive their loved ones to the hospital themselves or watch their loved ones or collegue die while waiting for one. This is not the fault of the police, fire, and emergency personel. This is the fault of so-called city politcal leaders making irresponsible cuts to these services instead of having the casinoes and corporation's revenue to fund these services. My prayers goes out to the Pugh family for the loss of his brother. Charlie LeDuff had reported that the Mayor's office and Charles Pugh had been quiet on the fact that EMS was unable to show in a timiley manner and other police officers had to escort Charles Pugh's brother to the hospital. I wasn't expecting the council president to respond for he is grieving. The Mayor and other council members should had responded to the media pertaining to this tragedy.

A. I don't know anything about Keith Butler, but since he is a Republican, I can't imagine he wouldn't want to cut the budget just like Republicans on the state & federal government level.

B. I don't recall how much the Council cut the budgets of the DPD, Fire & EMS, but I DO recall that those unions refused to take the 10% paycut that ALL other City employees took three years ago. If the City has less tax revenue, to get a balanced budget it has to cut expenses.

C. The newspaper account I saw said it only took the EMS 10 minutes to get there. Do you have some inside information that contradicts that? Lord knows I don't believe everything I read in the paper, but it seems that if the media CAN sensationalize a story, they normally will.

[Buy American]

People have to stop blaming the unions for the situation Detroit is in today.
Police and Fire did not receive any raises in 2008 and nothing has changed since then. Now, the City is asking them to take another 10% cut in salaries which would equal 20%....also they want more money to pay insurance premiums. Police/fire are down to bare bones. I know many firemen and policemen who are purchasing their own equipment because the City isn't paying their bills to the vendors. You can't expect people to continue to take cuts when everything is going up in cost. Also, remember one important thing....police and fire personnel aren't going to the office to do menial jobs, they leave their homes every day and don't know if they are coming back. Put yourself in their place and see if you'd go out there for $25,000 to 30,000 to start!

[mam2009]

People have to stop blaming the unions for the situation Detroit is in today.
Police and Fire did not receive any raises in 2008 and nothing has changed since then. Now, the City is asking them to take another 10% cut in salaries which would equal 20%....also they want more money to pay insurance premiums. Police/fire are down to bare bones. I know many firemen and policemen who are purchasing their own equipment because the City
isn't paying their bills to the vendors. You can't expect people to continue to take cuts when everything is going up in cost. Also, remember one important thing....police and fire personnel aren't going to the office to do menial jobs, they leave their homes every day and don't know if they are coming back. Put yourself in their place and see if you'd go out there for $25,000 to 30,000 to start!

I sympathize with Police & Fire's point of view, Buy America. I really do. But nearly all of the other unions took pay CUTS in 2008. And those workers aren't paid any better than police officers & probably don't have the same opportunities for overtime. I wasn't maliciously laying blame, but the bottom line is everyone has to do their part -- E
everyone.

[Buy American]

I would venture to guess that not everyone took pay cuts in 2008, especially those in administration, the appointees, and friends and family. The bottom line is that cutting wages and health benefit premiums will not solve the problem in Detroit, you and I both know this. Any incentive to pay home taxes [[that will boost Detroit's funds) has all but blown out the broken windows when Wayne County is now offering squatters the option to purchase homes for $500. This is telling the good, taxpaying group that it's okay to skip paying taxes, you'll get a break some where down the line.

I see and hear and remember what it was like to work in Detroit. I know some of the intricate comings and goings of the administration and I know I don't like what I see.

Everyone has done their part to get Detroit solvent, but from 2008 until today, nothing has changed and it's become much worse. You can't expect people who work for Detroit to continue to shoulder the burden of those on the 13th floor of the CAY building and their mismanagement, their thievery, their extortion of others, the criminals who are still handling the financial aspect of Detroit. Detroiters may not have to worry about an EM too much because whatever police department or fire department or EMS Division is left will leave....because when a janitor or a jr. clerk is making as much as a starting police officer, that's a crying shame.

I'm ranting and I'm sorry.

[Islandman]

I would venture to guess that not everyone took pay cuts in 2008, especially those in administration, the appointees, and friends and family. The bottom line is that cutting wages and health benefit premiums will not solve the problem in Detroit, you and I both know this. Any incentive to pay home taxes [[that will boost Detroit's funds) has all but blown out the broken windows when Wayne County is now offering squatters the option to purchase homes for $500. This is telling the good, taxpaying group that it's okay to skip paying taxes, you'll get a break some where down the line.

I see and hear and remember what it was like to work in Detroit. I know some of the intricate comings and goings of the administration and I know I don't like what I see.

Everyone has done their part to get Detroit solvent, but from 2008 until today, nothing has changed and it's become much worse. You can't expect people who work for Detroit to continue to shoulder the burden of those on the 13th floor of the CAY building and their mismanagement, their thievery, their extortion of others, the criminals who are still handling the financial aspect of Detroit. Detroiters may not have to worry about an EM too much because whatever police department or fire department or EMS Division is left will leave....because when a janitor or a jr. clerk is making as much as a starting police officer, that's a crying shame.

I'm ranting and I'm sorry.

BA,

I agree that it is a shame, but one fact is true: You don't have to be a pilice officer or fireman if it's not financially viable. No one is amking you do it, and there are plenty of other places to go be a fireman or police officer if doing it in Detroit is excessively unsafe.

It was the same when I was in the military, crappy hours and pay, away from home, etc. the one thing that rung true is that everyone chose to do it.

I understand if a lot of these changes end up happening after years on the job, but if anyone working for the city of Detroit [[or living in the city) didn't see these changes coming from years ago, they have no one to blame but themselves. There are many working people that don't have even the limited protection of a union in their careers. You have to try to roll with the punches.