RIP Greektown: Laikon Closing

**Bham1982** · February-29-12, 12:07 PM

This whole situation sounds like a market failure, where all the Greek landowners are making the "correct" short-term financial decisions, but the end game will be no more Greektown.

At some point, these incremental changes will result in a total erosion of sense of place. Once this happens, the land will have virtually no value outside of casino functions. At that point, pray the casino never relocates or closes, leaving a wasteland.

**j to the jeremy** · February-29-12, 12:19 PM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

This whole situation sounds like a planning failure, where all the Detroit politicians are making the "correct" short-term financial decisions, but the end game will be no more real estate value or walkability in the city.

At some point, these incremental changes will result in a total erosion of sense of place. Once this happens, the land will have virtually no value outside of casino functions / commuter businesses. At that point, pray the hipsters and poor people never relocate or move to the suburbs, leaving a wasteland.

Edited to describe the story of Detroit since the 1950s

**Zozo** · February-29-12, 01:16 PM

Would be a smart move to have some sort of ground floor retail in the new parking garage. There's an opportunity to expand the commercial district, at least. Not likely to happen though. Seems like the long term vision for Greektown is to turn it into a parking district with drive-thru experiences as opposed to what it has historically been.

**mikeg19** · February-29-12, 04:54 PM

I guess the only positive in this is they're going to retain the streetwall. I was at the casino on Saturday and walking down the street, it's hardly what I remember when I was a little boy 15 years ago. On a side note, what's up with the gravel lot on the corner where New Helas [[sp?) used to be? Is there any development associated with that site? Seems like it'd be one hell of a property to own.

**Flintoid** · February-29-12, 05:31 PM

Originally Posted by mikeg19

I guess the only positive in this is they're going to retain the streetwall. I was at the casino on Saturday and walking down the street, it's hardly what I remember when I was a little boy 15 years ago. On a side note, what's up with the gravel lot on the corner where New Helas [[sp?) used to be? Is there any development associated with that site? Seems like it'd be one hell of a property to own.

I was seeing that as a silver lining to this idiotic decision by the casino. At least we will still have the Monroe St. streetwall. Also, I thought I heard that the corner where New Helas was is indeed planned for development [[the casino would not be thinking of their own pocketbook otherwise). Anyone actually have details on that lot?

**Detroitnerd** · February-29-12, 05:45 PM

I thought Gatzaros owned it, wanted to do something with it, got frustrated, knocked it down. Not sure how much of that's true, though. The site was a hole in the ground for a while, and some people complained about rats. Then, when they needed a staging area for the work behind the alley, they filled it in.

**mwilbert** · February-29-12, 06:46 PM

This is quite distressing. I was never a big casino fan, but if there were going to be casinos, I wanted them to be all in one lump. Then they destroyed Bricktown, but nonetheless let the casinos go wherever they wanted, and I didn't like that at all. But I did not anticipate the devastation that the Greektown Casino would bring to Greektown. It is a terrible waste.

**poobert** · February-29-12, 10:00 PM

Same unbelievably idiotic shortsightedness. Any normal, functioning city governed by people with half a brain in the latter quarter of the 20th century would have seen that that area was preserved and protected. However this is basically the same crew that tore down the Lafayette Building to build...who fucking can even name or cares what's there now...and Tiger Stadium so they could periodically harass the people who would clean up the empty lot they created.
Ah, at least we now have...er...Paradise Valley?? Now if we could just get that John Conyers Boulevard designation...

**EastsideAl** · March-02-12, 02:12 PM

Casinos suck cities inside their semi-dark, noisy, self-contained, timelessness, and kill them.

Back when we Detroit voters voted down casinos several times, I kept saying to people that you only have to look as far as Atlantic City to see how much 'good' casinos will do for poor cities. They just create a "safe' bubble of isolation from the world around them, and create a money-centered vacuum of false comfort that they use to cushion the blow of their removal of your cash.

The city around them, the urban experience, or any trappings of reality, play no part in this scenario. But time and again cities, and particularly nearby businesses, are convinced that these cash extracting machines are going to work to their benefit. Instead they almost always find themselves on the outside looking in, and poorer for the experience as their potential customers are isolated from them in the womb of the gaudily lit windowless monolith nearby.

It is telling that the casino wants to destroy this going business in order to build a parking structure in such a way that it funnels their customers straight into them, without even a chance to cross the street below and experience the city around them for even a second. Gotta keep those suckers [[errr... 'guests') and their money flowing right into their bloodstream with no chance that their cash can escape.

**dawn26** · March-04-12, 01:26 PM

Greektown in general and Hellas in particular are what drew me to Detroit when I first started hanging out up there. Greektown was just such a bustling little enclave, always crowded but always fun. Now...how many of the stores/restaurants are even greek??? It was before my time, but I've read that detroit used to have a chinatown...needless to say I've never seen any sign that it used to exist

**Gistok** · March-04-12, 01:41 PM

Well.... a few years back the posters on this forumers were complaining bitterly that MotorCity and MGM were building self contained casinos... and only Greektown was doing it right... they were also complaining that Greektown casino's plan to move over to I-75 and Gratiot was not such a good idea.... and were glad that they decided to stay put.... oh the irony...

**Zacha341** · March-04-12, 01:51 PM

Yep. Excellent post! I signed every petition to keep casinos out of Detroit against days such as these.....

Originally Posted by EastsideAl

Gotta keep those suckers [[errr... 'guests') and their money flowing right into their bloodstream with no chance that their cash can escape.

**Zacha341** · March-04-12, 01:54 PM

It was the 'long goodbye' the day that thing opened in Greektown. Once in a while I'd slum at the buffet tagging along with some of my gambling friends. Now I cannot even do that. Finished with that area..... no need to even drive thru the traffic jam.......

Originally Posted by mwilbert

This is quite distressing. I was never a big casino fan, but if there were going to be casinos, I wanted them to be all in one lump. Then they destroyed Bricktown, but nonetheless let the casinos go wherever they wanted, and I didn't like that at all. But I did not anticipate the devastation that the Greektown Casino would bring to Greektown. It is a terrible waste.

**stromberg2** · March-04-12, 04:10 PM

Originally Posted by dawn26

Greektown in general and Hellas in particular are what drew me to Detroit when I first started hanging out up there. Greektown was just such a bustling little enclave, always crowded but always fun. Now...how many of the stores/restaurants are even greek??? It was before my time, but I've read that detroit used to have a chinatown...needless to say I've never seen any sign that it used to exist

Go to Peterboro and Cass in the Corridor...that's were Chinatown was.

Stromberg2

**EastsideAl** · March-05-12, 01:48 PM

Originally Posted by stromberg2

Go to Peterboro and Cass in the Corridor...that's were Chinatown was.

Stromberg2

Well, yes, there was a "Chinatown" there, but that was Detroit's second Chinatown. The original Chinatown, which was a neighborhood where Chinese people actually lived, was on the streets around Third and Second south of Michigan Ave.

This 'slum' was cleared, along with old 'Skid Row' along Michigan Ave. and large parts of old Corktown, in the 'urban renewal' efforts surrounding the building of the nearby Lodge Freeway in the late '50s and early '60s. The elements of that community that the city found 'less desirable', i.e. chronic alcoholics and Chinese, were encouraged by the city to move to the already declining Cass Corridor area.

Many Chinese businesses and some Chinese residents took the city up on its offer, and "Chinese themed" kiosks, phone booths, and signs were put in. But the idea never really 'took.' The Chinese residents mostly soon scattered from this less family-friendly area, and most of the businesses eventually closed. By the late '70s all that was left was Chung's restaurant at Cass and Peterboro and a small Chinese senior center behind it where old men played mahjong all day.

Some shots of Chinese New Year in Detroit's original Chinatown, from WSU's Virtual Motor City site:

**Scottathew** · March-05-12, 01:52 PM

It sucks that everytime there is a new development that the city seems to become less dense. Just like Illitch with all his parking lots. It's cheaper to just buy land and level it then it is to build a parking structure to promote density.

**poobert** · March-05-12, 02:26 PM

Originally Posted by EastsideAl

Well, yes, there was a "Chinatown" there, but that was Detroit's second Chinatown. The original Chinatown, which was a neighborhood where Chinese people actually lived, was on the streets around Third and Second south of Michigan Ave.

This 'slum' was cleared, along with old 'Skid Row' along Michigan Ave. and large parts of old Corktown, in the 'urban renewal' efforts surrounding the building of the nearby Lodge Freeway in the late '50s and early '60s. The elements of that community that the city found 'less desirable', i.e. chronic alcoholics and Chinese, were encouraged by the city to move to the already declining Cass Corridor area.

Many Chinese businesses and some Chinese residents took the city up on its offer, and "Chinese themed" kiosks, phone booths, and signs were put in. But the idea never really 'took.' The Chinese residents mostly soon scattered from this less family-friendly area, and most of the businesses eventually closed. By the late '70s all that was left was Chung's restaurant at Cass and Peterboro and a small Chinese senior center behind it where old men played mahjong all day.

Some shots of Chinese New Year in Detroit's original Chinatown, from WSU's Virtual Motor City site:

Interestingly those pictures looking eerily similar to Chinatowns in other major cities in North America, except for the lack of automobiles and neon signs.

Had we not bulldozed this organic neighborhood - and countless others like it - we very well could still have a thriving Chinatown like other cities. Instead we have aged, ugly superblock developments and vast abandonment, while most of our Asian population lives in equally vulgar ticky-tacky subdivisions in Oakland county.
You could take a written history of Metro Detroit for the past 70 years and just change the title to either "how to destroy a great city" or "Urban Planning 102: Everything you shouldn't do"

**christos** · March-05-12, 07:32 PM

While much of the criticism on here is pretty valid, I think the biggest reason why so many old Greektown restaurants are closing is because:

1. While they aren't bad, they aren't great. Seriously, I'm Greek, and when people ask me where to go for good Greek food around here, I say "Toronto." In Chicago and Toronto, and I'm sure in Queens, there are restaurants that reflect different regions, or different types of Greek cuisine. Not here.

2. Their menus are pretty much the same as each other. The lamb and mousaka market is pretty tight in Metro Detroit, and with more total dining options, there were a lot of storefronts competing for a small market. But seriously, what was the difference between Hellas' menu and Cyprus? Or even now- Parthenon and Pegasus?

3. Their menu's haven't changed since the 70's, and they haven't adapted to recent trends. Casual dining outside of chain restaurants means want fresh, home made food- not reheated Sysco and Gordon's food service food. My foodie friends don't believe me when I tell them that despite our poor representation in Detroit, Greek cuisine is some of the finest on earth.

4. The menu isn't even that authentic. I call it "Greektown Cuisine" which is a cross between what Greeks think Americans will eat, and what Americans think Greek food is. For example Greek salad has NO LETTUCE. Or little peppers. And seriously, in a restaurant market obsessed with fried cheese, there is no excuse to not serve any haloumi! Don't even get me started on meat. If I want goat, I have to go to Mexicantown, and the only place in Detroit that serves lamb right is roast. And finally- the Greek "street food" staple- suvlaki and gyros is not even close to the real deal. Real suvlaki and gyro are pork, NOT lamb, NOT beef, and NOT chicken. And for the love of god, you do NOT put anything on a suvlaki skewer except meat.

Anyways, while I understand the nostalgia for the places lost, it saddens me that many of my people think that the problem is that Greek food is no longer in demand- when I think if done right, and if done to higher standards, we could support a few new restaurants that would be considered some of the best in town.

**Gistok** · March-05-12, 08:13 PM

Christos.... thanks for the informative comments. It reminds me of all the folks who make that long trek up to Frankenmuth to get some "authentic" German Chicken dinners.... except one little problem..... Chicken is not THEE German specialty.... pork and to a lesser degree beef is.

I don't think that anyone in my family has ever taken relatives visiting from Germany to Frankenmuth.... they would likely be asking why we drove all that way for chicken? ... surrounded by what looks like a German version of Main Street Disneyland....

**casscorridor** · March-05-12, 08:28 PM

Michigan: where good things go to die, and the worst ideas thrive. RIP Chinatown, Greektown, Poletown, Black Bottom, Rivertown, and so on

Make way for M-59 widening, monotonous suburban projects, faux "cultural" districts, casinos, stadiums, strip plazas and big box stores. Yeah, it's Pure Michigan, a real life version of Idiocracy.

Will we ever be able to piece back together what is left? Or should we just give up and move across the river?

**gameguy56** · March-06-12, 09:03 AM

Originally Posted by casscorridor

Will we ever be able to piece back together what is left? Or should we just give up and move across the river?

Speaking of which, how is Windsor these days?

**401don** · March-06-12, 09:54 AM

Originally Posted by gameguy56

Speaking of which, how is Windsor these days?

The casino is doing lousy so the Ont. gov't is very close to approving Vegas style single game sports betting.

**professorjackson** · March-06-12, 11:00 AM

"The casino is doing lousy so the Ont. gov't is very close to approving Vegas style single game sports betting."

Explain more please! My understanding is gambling is a federal issue in Canada, so the province couldn't unilaterally change the law against betting on single sports events...the Feds would have to change the criminal law for that to happen...

**401don** · March-06-12, 11:22 AM

Explain more please! My understanding is gambling is a federal issue in Canada, so the province couldn't unilaterally change the law against betting on single sports events...the Feds would have to change the criminal law for that to happen

You are correct. The law passed in the Commons a couple of days ago and is headed for the Senate for ratification. The Ontario Gov't will then put them in their casinos.

**rb336** · March-06-12, 11:32 AM

Originally Posted by christos

While much of the criticism on here is pretty valid, I think the biggest reason why so many old Greektown restaurants are closing is because:

I would add to that that several of the restaurants haven't done a decent job of maintaining themselves. The new Parthenon is looking pretty shabby these days, and the food quality is slipping.