The Buena Sala Apartments, circa 1929 FOR SALE

[riviera]

and another one for ya

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/11/te...ewanted=2&_r=1

Buena Sala is in Wayne District, I understand? How come the ownership in USA is not always registered with the court and/or municipality. In Holland, this sort of a thing is just inconceivable. There is ALWAYS info on legal ownership available in the public records

Property ownership is always recorded on public record with the register of deeds office and the treasurers office at the county for taxation purposes. I think what they mean is that ownership is not clear due to use of a web of corporations and trusts and is not transparent. It could in theory belong to anyone since no one is clear on who owns the different legal vehicles.

[Zacha341]

Hmmm, I am not surprised by this. One is thing clear is that most of the properties that posted on Ebay that were ummm 'sold' remain abandoned hulks in worse shape, more windows open, more stripped and who know what corpse is inside.

Scott and Pam Burton, notorious eBay scammers. I just did my homework and found a host of info on them:

http://www.worldlawdirect.com/forum/...s-ohio-11.html

rhislink brings you to just 1 of many pages on that forum on this scam couple

greetings from Israel & happy Pesach

[AmsterdamWarehouse]

Property ownership is always recorded on public record with the register of deeds office and the treasurers office at the county for taxation purposes. I think what they mean is that ownership is not clear due to use of a web of corporations and trusts and is not transparent. It could in theory belong to anyone since no one is clear on who owns the different legal vehicles.

OK, I see. One of the respected members of this forum could then do a bit of checking on those records .. might be interesting .. would love to see the info coming up after visitation of those legal bodies you mentioned there.

[Detroitgayhistoryguy]

Unless you are buying a tax sale property, and especially if you are buying from a private seller, the closing should be at a title company and you should only give money for a warranty deed with a title policy.

[AmsterdamWarehouse]

Unless you are buying a tax sale property, and especially if you are buying from a private seller, the closing should be at a title company and you should only give money for a warranty deed with a title policy.

I see. A title company has the status of a notary in Holland, then, I d say.

What I meant is: a check to find out which legally acknowledged party actually now owns the Buena Sala appts, given those city records mentioned.

That socalled quit claim deed construction in a dutch perspective seems just to be a deceiving legal artefact.
Is that a remainder from the Wild West?

[mwilbert]

In Holland, this sort of a thing is just inconceivable. There is ALWAYS info on legal ownership available in the public records

In much of Europe, including the Netherlands, there is an official cadastral map showing all the property boundaries, and land ownership is registered against that. In the US, although land ownership claims are registered centrally, the validity of the claim in general depends upon a valid chain of title transfers; just registering the deed doesn't insure that the title is valid. That is why title insurance companies exist in the US--in theory they examine the title and guarantee either that it is good or that they will pay to resolve issues with it. In practice, they are a scam, but a necessary one.

It is a stupid system. I think there may be a few states that do it differently. Some states have a land court where you can take your evidence of ownership and get title guaranteed by the state, with the boundaries registered with the state, after which transfers would be more like the Dutch system, but this is costly and generally only done with especially valuable land.

[AmsterdamWarehouse]

In much of Europe, including the Netherlands, there is an official cadastral map showing all the property boundaries, and land ownership is registered against that. In the US, although land ownership claims are registered centrally, the validity of the claim in general depends upon a valid chain of title transfers; just registering the deed doesn't insure that the title is valid. That is why title insurance companies exist in the US--in theory they examine the title and guarantee either that it is good or that they will pay to resolve issues with it. In practice, they are a scam, but a necessary one.

It is a stupid system. I think there may be a few states that do it differently. Some states have a land court where you can take your evidence of ownership and get title guaranteed by the state, with the boundaries registered with the state, after which transfers would be more like the Dutch system, but this is costly and generally only done with especially valuable land.

thanks. your information confirms what I already suspected. An israeli lawyer suggested to me today that the quit claim deed indeed might be a remainder of the past - the WildWest, that is...

[AmsterdamWarehouse]

update:

site of Pam's Properties claims the Buena Sala Appts have been SOLD

odd thing is i don't believe it for a single bit. Maybe they 'sell' to themselves?

[riviera]

thanks. your information confirms what I already suspected. An israeli lawyer suggested to me today that the quit claim deed indeed might be a remainder of the past - the WildWest, that is...

A quit claim deed is one of the great things about the American property transfer system. It allows cheap and easy transfers without many legal hurdles between *trusted* persons. No lawyer, conveyancer, etc required.

[fdolan54]

Two of the companies you mention in your listing of registrations were involved in a deal that has lost me $21k. These are SavyOne and Premier One who seem to occupy the same building in Farmington, Detroit. I wondered if anyone else had any information or experiences of these companies. I was sold a house with over $6k in delinquent taxes despite me asking the UK agent and being assured it was tax and debt free. I was also told it had a longstanding, respectable tenant that turned out to be a new tenant who reneged on payment after 2 months and then refused to move before trashing the place and taking everything removable after being served eviction notice. As I didn't even know the taxes were due [[over 3 years for some) and the county didn't inform me either, the house was confiscated to pay the back taxes so I lost the whole thing. I had actually already paid some of the taxes but they still didn't bother to tell me about the arrears. I also paid to have the house secured and cleaned up after the tenants trashed it. This has been a nightmare and cost me lots of money with no return and I would really like to expose this if it is a scam.

I myself sold a apartment block on eBay earlier this year which I didn't have the means to rehab and had no problems.

The problem is that alot of people out there are quite unscrupulous. especially when it comes to selling property that is occupied without the rent roll [[yikes!).

I have seen the aforementioned seller quite a few times on listings and always wonder where the property comes from as it's not the tax sale or from foreclosure auction to the best of my knowledge and I've done a bit or research.

This would suggest deed fraud to me.

I checked the ownership of the tax ID's in the above listing and they came back as:

08010201.

CLEMENTS, BRIAN K

13100 LA SALLE BLVD

02001430.

CLAIRWOOD APARTMENTS LLC

100 CLAIRMOUNT

and the other apartment block they have listed has 3 tax ID's

12002802.

PREMIER ONE MANAGEMENT LLC

2901 CHICAGO

06003154.

SAVY ONE INVESTMENTS

1651 WEBB

21008194.

SAVY ONE INVESTMENT

12785 CHELSEA

Hmm.

Anyone else familiar with this seller?

[drjeff]

Two of the companies you mention in your listing of registrations were involved in a deal that has lost me $21k. These are SavyOne and Premier One who seem to occupy the same building in Farmington, Detroit. I wondered if anyone else had any information or experiences of these companies. I was sold a house with over $6k in delinquent taxes despite me asking the UK agent and being assured it was tax and debt free. I was also told it had a longstanding, respectable tenant that turned out to be a new tenant who reneged on payment after 2 months and then refused to move before trashing the place and taking everything removable after being served eviction notice. As I didn't even know the taxes were due [[over 3 years for some) and the county didn't inform me either, the house was confiscated to pay the back taxes so I lost the whole thing. I had actually already paid some of the taxes but they still didn't bother to tell me about the arrears. I also paid to have the house secured and cleaned up after the tenants trashed it. This has been a nightmare and cost me lots of money with no return and I would really like to expose this if it is a scam.

The title insurance company you presumably dealt with at closing should have found all of this out. I would go after them

[softailrider]

The title insurance company you presumably dealt with at closing should have found all of this out. I would go after them

Presumably is the key word. He bought property in Detroit through an agent in the UK? That's interesting, never heard of that one before. If he/ she is that clueless, a title policy probably wasn't purchased. Doesn't sound like the poster is ready for prime time. Sounds like they didn't even do a title search.

[Richard]

Would he not go after the UK agent? Given the housing prices loseing 21k is a lesson learned what other city with location location could you find one at that price.