Civil Disobedience Against the Detroit Emergency Manager Pledged

**Wesley Mouch** · January-02-12, 03:50 PM

Originally Posted by SWMAP

...
Also today, Nolan Finley reports in the News that an EFM may be forestalled:
'...<snip>...Will that be enough to head off an emergency manager?
The unions will say so. They came to the table under the threat of a state takeover that could break their contracts and leave them much worse off. ...<snip>...

There were likely several very happy Union officials when the realized that in the EFM law they finally had a way to tell their members that they had no choice but to deal. Always remember that Unions, like Management, will always do whatever they can to protect themselves.

I hope the day comes when we realize that the way that unions are currently running is as much of a disservice to workers as is poor Management.

A real union, interested in the needs of all of its members wouldn't have allowed retirees to get 'golden parachutes' while new workers get squat.

Buy American · January-02-12, 06:29 PM

Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

There were likely several very happy Union officials when the realized that in the EFM law they finally had a way to tell their members that they had no choice but to deal. Always remember that Unions, like Management, will always do whatever they can to protect themselves.

I hope the day comes when we realize that the way that unions are currently running is as much of a disservice to workers as is poor Management.

A real union, interested in the needs of all of its members wouldn't have allowed retirees to get 'golden parachutes' while new workers get squat.

When you refer to retirees getting "golden parachutes" are you referring to CofD retirees? I am a retiree and by no stretch of the imagination do I get some lucrative pension with huge benefits. I get what the CofD said I would get at the end of my career [[30 years), a pension.

**Kevgoblue** · January-02-12, 07:48 PM

Originally Posted by Buy American

When you refer to retirees getting "golden parachutes" are you referring to CofD retirees? I am a retiree and by no stretch of the imagination do I get some lucrative pension with huge benefits. I get what the CofD said I would get at the end of my career [[30 years), a pension.

Well, the latest story in The Detroit News says your pension is disproportionately contributing to the fiscal crisis in the city. Currently there are 65% more retirees than active employees and pension costs are expected to consume 50% of the city's general fund by 2015. Like it or not, regardless of what you were told you would get, this is not a sustainable condition.
http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...xt|FRONTPAGE|p

**Hypestyles** · January-02-12, 10:25 PM

http://tinyurl.com/73jfyjo

it was held at Tabernacle Missionary Baptist Church in Detroit. An assortment of elected officials and political activists were in attendance and/or made statements. The event was also used to push for more signatures regarding the putting a repeal of PA 4 on the November 2012 ballot.

lilpup · January-02-12, 10:50 PM

massively misplaced focus - prime example of why Detroit's so fucked up - wrong battles at the wrong time

**Scottathew** · January-02-12, 11:27 PM

How about a rally against spending more than you take in?
How about a rally against government waste?
A rally against public workers that get paid well above market levels?
A rally against electing council presidents that are bankrupt and then wondering why the city is bankrupt?

I don't know what these people want. The city must balance its budget, and elected officials are either unwilling or unable to do so.

Don't want an EFM? Then rally your leaders to balance the budget, but don't get mad at "the man".

**bailey** · January-03-12, 09:57 AM

Originally Posted by Hypestyles

http://tinyurl.com/73jfyjo

it was held at Tabernacle Missionary Baptist Church in Detroit. An assortment of elected officials and political activists were in attendance and/or made statements. The event was also used to push for more signatures regarding the putting a repeal of PA 4 on the November 2012 ballot.

Someone should post the video of "Reverend" David Murray. OMFG....comedy gold and a very strong message FOR the appointment of an EFM.

**Meddle** · January-03-12, 10:36 AM

Is this really a bad thing if it gets rid of so many of the long term problems?

Corrupt Clowncil?
Greedy Unions?

**Danny** · January-03-12, 01:26 PM

If Detroit have a better Mayor of City Council, then all the doom and gloom is gone. But there's no such thing is a absolute perfect politician.

**Danny** · January-03-12, 01:32 PM

Originally Posted by 48091

How about a rally against spending more than you take in?
How about a rally against government waste?
A rally against public workers that get paid well above market levels?
A rally against electing council presidents that are bankrupt and then wondering why the city is bankrupt?

I don't know what these people want. The city must balance its budget, and elected officials are either unwilling or unable to do so.

Don't want an EFM? Then rally your leaders to balance the budget, but don't get mad at "the man".

We Americans can protest against society, but that won't happen until they change their leaders. We can do it in four ways:

1. vote them out

2. recall them out

3. assassinate them out

4. revolution [[ as in pick up your guns, bombs, knives, swords and shields, bows and arrows, sticks and stones)

**HistoryNotHisStory** · January-03-12, 03:44 PM

What amazes me the present course of action by civil right leaders regarding the Emergency Financial Manager law is :

Where were they when the bill was being introduced in the Legislature. That would have been the appropriate time to protest. March the streets now is moot point!
No planned actions of Civil Disobediance was made when former Govenor Jennifer Granholm initiated an EFM for the City of Highland Park, Hamtramck , and the Detroit Public Schools.
The leaders of this protest group are not providing any solutions to make Detroit financially solvent.

**detroitpride313** · January-03-12, 05:17 PM

Originally Posted by HistoryNotHisStory

What amazes me the present course of action by civil right leaders regarding the Emergency Financial Manager law is :...The leaders of this protest group are not providing any solutions to make Detroit financially solvent.

This is exactly the same problem that I have. The leaders obviously have no solution to Detroit's financial problems because if they did they would not be scared of having a financial manager. The governor said that a financial manager would be instituted only if the city has no feasible solution to their debt. So if the leaders are scared that a financial manager will take over the city then they must have no plan. Although having an EFM is not the ideal situation I would rather have an EFM than bankruptcy or having a city that has leaders with no plan to solve the city's financial issues. Also, I am bothered by the leaders' use of racial propaganda to rally people against the EFM law. Yesterday at the town hall meeting the leaders seemed like they wanted to blame white people for all of the problems in Detroit, but I just want to ask are white people really to blame for the corruption and the bad leadership from city officials? I am a black male from Detroit and I don't buy into that garbage. I think the city officials should take responsibility for the problems in the city [[although I do realize some things in the past were not their fault such as the white flight) and try to correct it. Also, I think they should stop blaming Governor Snyder because he is just trying to do his job [[his actions have nothing to do with a plot to take over black cities). He wants to reinvent Michigan and it's going to be hard for Michigan to succeed with its biggest city failing.

Buy American · January-03-12, 05:40 PM

Originally Posted by Danny

If Detroit have a better Mayor of City Council, then all the doom and gloom is gone. But there's no such thing is a absolute perfect politician.

...and Detroit politicians are the poster children for corruption in politics.

**swingline** · January-03-12, 05:46 PM

Originally Posted by Buy American

When you refer to retirees getting "golden parachutes" are you referring to CofD retirees? I am a retiree and by no stretch of the imagination do I get some lucrative pension with huge benefits. I get what the CofD said I would get at the end of my career [[30 years), a pension.

Not trying to pick on you individually, Buy, because we assume that you did not get rich after working hard in the public sector for 30 years. However, most public employee retirement benefits are indeed quite lucrative/generous especially when compared to what a similarly compensated self-employed person would have to save to achieve the same thing.

In Detroit, a city employee can retire at age 55 with 30 years service and immediately begin receiving a pension of approximately 60% of their last 3 years' salary. In addition, that same employee with a family will receive approximately $15k annually in health insurance benefits until they are eligible for Medicare. Roughly calculated, the self-employed person would have to save at least 25% of their earnings annually [[if earning the same as the public employee) beginning in their 20's to achieve the same retirement benefits. Who in the private sector earning a middle class salary can save that kind of money, and start saving it in their wild 20's? How many middle class private sector employees have saved enough after only 30 years in the workplace to retire at 60% of their pre-retirement income and have their health insurance covered [[and perhaps have all of this at age 55)? The answer is almost zero. Yet, the taxpayers do this for public employees. It can easily be described as generous, if not golden parachute-like. And it is not sustainable for a poor, declining population city.

**English** · January-03-12, 05:55 PM

I don't care how incompetent Detroit elected officials were and are. The only question that I am concerned about when it comes to the EM/EFM controversy is this. Are we, or are we not, citizens of the United States?

Does United States citizenship only apply to those who are smart, competent, and prosperous? Does it not apply to those who are foolish, ignorant, or poor?

Does every free adult citizen of the United States have the right to elect representation?

Does every free adult citizen of the United States have the right to elect representation, unless they are residents of the city of Detroit?

Look. You can't pick and choose whether or not to abide by the Constitution based on whether you like the outcomes of elections. It would be nice if we could. I believe that the most disastrous electoral choice in recent United States history was the controversial Presidential election of 2000. I believe that the financial and social consequences of that election will be far longer lasting, and have more implications for all of our lives, and for the planet, and perhaps even for the species, than the silliness of Detroit political grandstanding.

Yet you don't hear me, or anyone who thoughtfully agrees with me, advocating for the widespread disenfranchisement of the United States citizenry.

I have told you before that I think some of you are making a very dangerous argument, one that you will come to regret. They are coming for you, and your children, and your grandchildren, next. And it's only because many of you think that you're somehow above it all that they're able to fool you every single time.

Keep it up. I would dearly love to be wrong. But it's frightening that many of you, and those running around the city running their mouths, fail to recognize the endgame. For once, something is bigger than Detroit and its terminal dysfunction. Pay attention.

lilpup · January-03-12, 06:04 PM

have fun in bankruptcy

**Zacha341** · January-03-12, 08:08 PM

Good point! I am not a republican, but as I have said elsewhere on DYes, when the dems give us our castor oil 'dose' we take it like a baby!

'Cause some would rather naw off their right arm rather than acknowledge bad or ineffective politics and policy from the democrats or left. Partisan loyalty is that blinding for some.

PROTEST is reserved until the boiler-plate requisite republican face is involved in the policy. It's just the way of things... sadly.

Originally Posted by HistoryNotHisStory

No planned actions of Civil Disobediance was made when former Govenor Jennifer Granholm initiated an EFM for the City of Highland Park, Hamtramck, and the Detroit Public Schools.
The leaders of this protest group are not providing any solutions to make Detroit financially solvent.

**Hermod** · January-03-12, 09:29 PM

Originally Posted by English

I don't care how incompetent Detroit elected officials were and are. The only question that I am concerned about when it comes to the EM/EFM controversy is this. Are we, or are we not, citizens of the United States?

Cities are "instrumentalities" of the state. They are not sovereign as the states are sovereign. Cities are granted charters by the state. State law provides for takeover by the state of a city, village, township, or school district which is in financial troubles.

**swingline** · January-04-12, 12:09 PM

Originally Posted by Hermod

Cities are "instrumentalities" of the state. They are not sovereign as the states are sovereign. Cities are granted charters by the state. State law provides for takeover by the state of a city, village, township, or school district which is in financial troubles.

Hermod is correct.

English, there is nothing wrong with a passionate defense of the right to vote, but no citizen in Michigan has a constitutionally protected right to be represented by a particular kind of local unit of government. All local units of government are creatures of the state. The state gets to make the rules. That's the setup, constitutionally. Nobody's "right to elected representation" [[your words) can be infringed by an EM because there is no such right in this context.

English, by the way, can you explain more fully the endgame you see coming that an EM in Detroit would be a part of?

**HistoryNotHisStory** · January-04-12, 02:21 PM

Originally Posted by English

I don't care how incompetent Detroit elected officials were and are. The only question that I am concerned about when it comes to the EM/EFM controversy is this. Are we, or are we not, citizens of the United States?

Does United States citizenship only apply to those who are smart, competent, and prosperous? Does it not apply to those who are foolish, ignorant, or poor?

Does every free adult citizen of the United States have the right to elect representation?

Does every free adult citizen of the United States have the right to elect representation, unless they are residents of the city of Detroit?

Look. You can't pick and choose whether or not to abide by the Constitution based on whether you like the outcomes of elections. It would be nice if we could. I believe that the most disastrous electoral choice in recent United States history was the controversial Presidential election of 2000. I believe that the financial and social consequences of that election will be far longer lasting, and have more implications for all of our lives, and for the planet, and perhaps even for the species, than the silliness of Detroit political grandstanding.

Yet you don't hear me, or anyone who thoughtfully agrees with me, advocating for the widespread disenfranchisement of the United States citizenry.

I have told you before that I think some of you are making a very dangerous argument, one that you will come to regret. They are coming for you, and your children, and your grandchildren, next. And it's only because many of you think that you're somehow above it all that they're able to fool you every single time.

Keep it up. I would dearly love to be wrong. But it's frightening that many of you, and those running around the city running their mouths, fail to recognize the endgame. For once, something is bigger than Detroit and its terminal dysfunction. Pay attention.

I agree with what you are saying, but the EFM laws has been on the books for years. As citizens, we can repeal unjust laws. Not complain and protest.

We can:

1. Start a petition drive.
2. Vote individuals out off office.

bartock · January-04-12, 02:42 PM

Originally Posted by English

I don't care how incompetent Detroit elected officials were and are. The only question that I am concerned about when it comes to the EM/EFM controversy is this. Are we, or are we not, citizens of the United States?

Does United States citizenship only apply to those who are smart, competent, and prosperous? Does it not apply to those who are foolish, ignorant, or poor?

Does every free adult citizen of the United States have the right to elect representation?

Does every free adult citizen of the United States have the right to elect representation, unless they are residents of the city of Detroit?

Look. You can't pick and choose whether or not to abide by the Constitution based on whether you like the outcomes of elections. It would be nice if we could. I believe that the most disastrous electoral choice in recent United States history was the controversial Presidential election of 2000. I believe that the financial and social consequences of that election will be far longer lasting, and have more implications for all of our lives, and for the planet, and perhaps even for the species, than the silliness of Detroit political grandstanding.

Yet you don't hear me, or anyone who thoughtfully agrees with me, advocating for the widespread disenfranchisement of the United States citizenry.

I have told you before that I think some of you are making a very dangerous argument, one that you will come to regret. They are coming for you, and your children, and your grandchildren, next. And it's only because many of you think that you're somehow above it all that they're able to fool you every single time.

Keep it up. I would dearly love to be wrong. But it's frightening that many of you, and those running around the city running their mouths, fail to recognize the endgame. For once, something is bigger than Detroit and its terminal dysfunction. Pay attention.

I would be interested to hear your thoughts on bankruptcy, which is the alternative.

**bailey** · January-04-12, 03:04 PM

Originally Posted by swingline

Keep it up. I would dearly love to be wrong. But it's frightening that many of you, and those running around the city running their mouths, fail to recognize the endgame. For once, something is bigger than Detroit and its terminal dysfunction. Pay attention.

Hermod is correct.

English, there is nothing wrong with a passionate defense of the right to vote, but no citizen in Michigan has a constitutionally protected right to be represented by a particular kind of local unit of government. All local units of government are creatures of the state. The state gets to make the rules. That's the setup, constitutionally. Nobody's "right to elected representation" [[your words) can be infringed by an EM because there is no such right in this context.

English, how about we leave the off the rails histrionics about disenfranchisement to John Conyers and Jessie Jackson. Along with Hermods and Swingline's posts, I'd simply expand the point to note that EFMs and the powers granted to them has been tested by the Supreme Court and there is direct, long standing, on point Supreme Court precedent allowing the EFM. US Trust v New Jersey... As long as the powers are for exigent circumstances and are reasonable and necessary to serve an important public purpose its constitutional.

Anyone think today's supreme court ...far more conservative in make up...would touch this one?

We can have debates all day long about who caused the problems, but at the end of the day, EFMs are constitutional. If I were a cynic, I'd be wondering if the various fire breathing pastors and long serving congressmen and longer serving city, county and state government leaders of this region prefer protests over EFMs because it distracts the populace from looking at 50 years of incompetence that led us to this juncture.

**Hermod** · January-04-12, 03:10 PM

The state has the power to combine counties or to split counties. The state has the power to incorporate and to disincorporate cities, towns, and villages. To take away this power would require a change to the state constitution.

Back in the day,some states had their state senate elected by county or had a requirement that each county was entitled to at least one state senator. This caused the rural counties to be overly powerful at the state level. The US Supreme Court rejected this and state legislatures must be apportioned on a one man one vote basis regardless of political boundaries within the state. The USSC ruled that while states were sovereign in the makeup of the US House and Senate, the political subdivisions of a state had no such sovereignty and their boundaries could be readily crossed and ignored in setting legislative districts.

**English** · January-04-12, 04:16 PM

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security."

According to the Founders, the citizens of the city of Detroit have not only the right, but the obligation [[duty), to secede from the state of Michigan, and if necessary, the United States of America, if an EM is appointed.

Now, I'm not a secessionist. But I am an educator, who is entrusted by the state of Michigan, and by the United States Department of Education to teach young people and their teachers what it means to be a citizen of the United States. Some of us [[and not just crazy black Detroiters) are trying to get Michiganders to understand why the EM/EFM is a bad idea. [[Let me make this bigger so those in the slow seats get it.) I am not arguing that Detroit doesn't need a financial manager; of course, the current situation is untenable. I am arguing that the precedent that an EM will set is far too dangerous for it to be the solution to our current problem. That's all.

I also submit to you that the Emergency Manager will not get droves of [[let's just say it) young white professionals to move back into the city, any more than the DPS EM didn't get them to enroll their kids into the schools. It only will confirm, as the DPS EM confirmed, that Detroit is incorrigible, and the city will be completely written off for another generation. We will not get Cheesecake Factories, or Houses of Blues, or choo-choo trains to nowhere.

No. That's because most of you do not get what the EMs are for. It's not about balancing the budget or making Detroit a better place for its residents. The EMs are about the transfer of public funds into private hands. We are watching the wholesale looting of education in this nation, which is being propagandized as "corrupt unionized school officials buy fur coats and Home Depot appliances" -- yes, the wholesale theft by DPS employees over the past few decades has been criminally wrong, but the transfer of billions of taxpayer dollars from public trusts into private hands is several degrees worse.

The EM will leave Detroit in no better financial shape. The city will be much poorer, much more dangerous, and a far worse place to live than it is now. And once these EMs are done sucking the lifeblood from poor communities of color, where on earth do you think they're going next?

Capitalism is apparently self-cannibalizing. The endgame seems to be that it will consume even Democracy itself before collapsing. The EM is just another move in a long chess game.

**English** · January-04-12, 04:25 PM

Ultimately, the United States government could use an Emergency Financial Manager appointed by a consortium of our multinational corporate overlords to balance the federal budget and eliminate the debt and the deficit. Wouldn't that be nice? It would solve all of our political issues in DC...

It will never happen, because the 300 million people of the United States would never go for it. Most would, rightfully, call it a dictatorship. It would lead to a conflict that would make the Civil War look like pattycake.

The only reason that this is being tried in places like Detroit and Benton Harbor is because at this stage, you can get away with doing anything to the poor, especially [[but not exclusively) if they're black or brown.