Murder at Bagley and Grand River

SteveJ · December-22-11, 10:57 PM

Originally Posted by Patrick

Bad drug deal perhaps?

I'm thinking that too.

Ravine · December-23-11, 01:17 AM

Right right. White guy walking around in Detroit. Gets killed. Must have been trying to score some dope.

Jesus Christ Almighty.

**SaintMe** · December-23-11, 12:44 PM

Originally Posted by theosakakoneko

I really dislike all the victim blaming in the original post. This is so close to so many destinations in that area. Grand River and Bagley...wouldn't that even be visible from Lucy and Ethel's [[Leland diner)? It's not like he was on some unpopulated dark street which would normally be considered less than safe.

Exactly, this is a highly visible area, in very clear view from the Transit Center, [[former) Trolley Plaza, People mover stops, the Leland. I work two blocks away and often park at Nick's Gaslight. This is a populated area in central downtown and if you're going to leave the casino I would've considered this a safe direction to head.

**j to the jeremy** · December-23-11, 12:45 PM

It's highly visible but the ENTIRE intersection is bordered by parking lots. Even if someone saw it, they were most likely 2 blocks away, minimum. That's too far to be able to break up a stabbing.

**mikefmich** · December-26-11, 02:57 AM

Crissakes, I used to frequent the Gaslight often in earlier years. I would not consider that an overtly worrisome place to be in the city.

**rex** · December-26-11, 09:54 PM

and im back... forgot my password and was locked out.

Why would the guy be wandering around near the casino
at night? If it was a few blocks in another direction i would think
maybe looking for drugs. Maybe up or down on the tables,
drinking. Made a call or meant to try and find a street person.
Score me dope and Ill give you 5 bux type of deal. Wouldnt
be hard or take long. Easy way to get stabbed
sad all the same. I feel bad for his family

SteveJ · December-26-11, 10:43 PM

The weird thing is that he went with his friend and then he bailed on his own and walked around that area at night by himself. I bet his friend knows what his true intentions were. I just don't think I'd go to a casino with a friend and then just bail on him and walk around the casino.

**WickedILL** · December-27-11, 01:32 PM

Originally Posted by SteveJ

The weird thing is that he went with his friend and then he bailed on his own and walked around that area at night by himself. I bet his friend knows what his true intentions were. I just don't think I'd go to a casino with a friend and then just bail on him and walk around the casino.

My thoughts as well.

Annndddd on another note, now we've got a shooting on christmas night [[2am) just outside "The Grind" off of Griswold and Clifford. I heard ~12 shots. I Got up, looked out my apt window and sure enough there is a guy laying on the sidewalk.

Man I hope no DPD officers are cut. They HAVE TO COME UP WITH ANOTHER WAY.

And last, "The Grind" either needs to be shut down or REQUIRED to have more security, including outside. Because it's no secret that a lot of their patrons are up-to-no-good thugs.

**downtown_racine** · December-27-11, 02:24 PM

Detroit: Cant even buy a doobie safely.

Atleast his death can be justified. Bad suburbanite buying dope in a ghettoood ~he didnt belong in~.

**wolverine** · December-27-11, 02:38 PM

Does someone have a link to violent crime numbers split up by neighborhood?

**mikeinmotown** · December-27-11, 02:49 PM

This is very upsetting. I live downtown and I walk that area all the time. I also work near the area and I've never had any problems. The only place I see punks hanging around is the corner of Griswold near State, next to the topless bar. I agree there is more to this story. To be stabbed that many times doesn't sound like your average robbery. People need to be careful and not blame the victim. Cops shouldn't make stupid statements like they did. We should be able to walk anywhere downtown and feel safe.

**corktownyuppie** · December-27-11, 04:11 PM

Originally Posted by mikeinmotown

This is very upsetting. I live downtown and I walk that area all the time. I also work near the area and I've never had any problems. The only place I see punks hanging around is the corner of Griswold near State, next to the topless bar. I agree there is more to this story. To be stabbed that many times doesn't sound like your average robbery. People need to be careful and not blame the victim. Cops shouldn't make stupid statements like they did. We should be able to walk anywhere downtown and feel safe.

Living across the street from the MGM Casino, I share your view. That said, I do temper my opinion with the realization that it's not really safe for anyone, anywhere to be walking alone at 3 a.m. That holds true even in places such as University of Michigan's campus where I used to regularly walk home at 4 a.m. after closing up at Good Time Charley's on South University. It's a sad, changing world, and the economy isn't helping things.

Be safe, everyone.

**mtburb** · December-27-11, 08:00 PM

Worse, that man lived in the same city as I. So that's sad news for our community too.

**WickedILL** · December-28-11, 03:27 AM

Originally Posted by wolverine

Does someone have a link to violent crime numbers split up by neighborhood?

I'd like to see that as well. If you go to the Detroit Welcome Center they'll tell you downtown Detroit has 35% less crime than the national average. But I wonder if that's REALLY true...

Occurrence · December-28-11, 05:55 AM

Anyone find it strange that a lot of the attention is directed at the question of why he was out wandering the streets? There are 30 different reasons why he could have been out there. The article doesn't tell us anything, and that quote by the police is dumb. I also highly doubt it was a "drug deal gone wrong". If this guy enjoyed narcotics, and sure he had the proper contacts and didn't need to resort to buying from strangers wandering the streets downtown.

**corktownyuppie** · December-28-11, 03:04 PM

Originally Posted by WickedILL

I'd like to see that as well. If you go to the Detroit Welcome Center they'll tell you downtown Detroit has 35% less crime than the national average. But I wonder if that's REALLY true...

I'd say that my perception is that it's probably true. Downtown Detroit is a pretty insulated area. The people that live in it and work in it generally have money. I know it's hard to believe, and you might not understand unless you actually live here for a few weeks. But downtown is very much like a small town. You can generally tell when someone or something looks out of place.

**Zacha341** · December-28-11, 03:43 PM

Yeah the cops come off somewhat cavalier, like if you walk the streets of Detroit you get ganked. Ok, so you know there's no wonder to why people are not coming to Detroit. They feel they will be killed if outdoors and not some royal enclosure during visits...? And what about the citizens - we should already know that so we have an advantage? Right!

Poorly written story - I fear this is going to go unsolved as other crimes in certain areas have. Very sad....

Originally Posted by Occurrence

Anyone find it strange that a lot of the attention is directed at the question of why he was out wandering the streets? There are 30 different reasons why he could have been out there. The article doesn't tell us anything, and that quote by the police is dumb. I also highly doubt it was a "drug deal gone wrong". If this guy enjoyed narcotics, and sure he had the proper contacts and didn't need to resort to buying from strangers wandering the streets downtown.

Ravine · December-28-11, 04:15 PM

Obviously, I missed something. Where and when did the police make an issue out of why and when he was there?

SteveJ · December-28-11, 04:15 PM

Originally Posted by Occurrence

Anyone find it strange that a lot of the attention is directed at the question of why he was out wandering the streets? There are 30 different reasons why he could have been out there. The article doesn't tell us anything, and that quote by the police is dumb. I also highly doubt it was a "drug deal gone wrong". If this guy enjoyed narcotics, and sure he had the proper contacts and didn't need to resort to buying from strangers wandering the streets downtown.

Well I still think its drugs. Just heard of a couple of "armed" robberies in Ferndale and come to find out, they were both bad drug deals. This guy may have been a seller and didn't have the money. Who knows. We don't even have evidence that this guy even went to the casino. I bet his friend is lying and they were both going down there for drugs. He waited for him and his friend got stabbed to death. He didn't want to admit they went for drugs and came up with the whole casino story and wandering around. Believe me, he wasn't some innocent guy walking around for air. Yes, the story is poorly written but who knows how deep this guy was.

**gnome** · December-28-11, 04:46 PM

So without a spread of evidence you've constructed an entire mini-series involving his friend, a drug deal gone bad and a cornucopia of lies.

No evidence.

Pure speculation and we are to believe you because you say so.

It has been my experience that liars see lies in others. That cheaters think everyone cheats. That honest men think the best of other people until proven otherwise.

Posts sometimes reveal more than intended.

Ravine · December-28-11, 04:51 PM

Honest to God, even given the level of absurdity to which we, here in DY, have become accustomed, this thread has marked a new nadir.

I'm still waiting to see where the cops expressed bewilderment or skepticism about why the victim was where he was.

SteveJ · December-28-11, 05:05 PM

Originally Posted by gnome

So without a spread of evidence you've constructed an entire mini-series involving his friend, a drug deal gone bad and a cornucopia of lies.

No evidence.

Pure speculation and we are to believe you because you say so.

It has been my experience that liars see lies in others. That cheaters think everyone cheats. That honest men think the best of other people until proven otherwise.

Posts sometimes reveal more than intended.

Yeah, they tend to reveal who lives in reality and who lives in some fantasy world.

Ravine · December-28-11, 05:31 PM

Originally Posted by SteveJ

Yeah, they tend to reveal who lives in reality and who lives in some fantasy world.

I think that's what Gnome was saying, actually.

**Zacha341** · December-29-11, 12:27 AM

From Fox news report: "Police are stumped. Why was Groat walking three blocks from the casino? He was murdered at approximately midnight."

Originally Posted by Ravine

Obviously, I missed something. Where and when did the police make an issue out of why and when he was there?

**Zacha341** · December-29-11, 12:31 AM

He might have been walking the wrong way from getting turned around... we'll probably never know, but the issues is not that he was walking, but that apparently he got murdered brutally and the polices remain "stumped" and the killers remain free, out and about...... nice.

Originally Posted by SteveJ

Well I still think its drugs. Just heard of a couple of "armed" robberies in Ferndale and come to find out, they were both bad drug deals. This guy may have been a seller and didn't have the money. Who knows. We don't even have evidence that this guy even went to the casino. I bet his friend is lying and they were both going down there for drugs. He waited for him and his friend got stabbed to death. He didn't want to admit they went for drugs and came up with the whole casino story and wandering around. Believe me, he wasn't some innocent guy walking around for air. Yes, the story is poorly written but who knows how deep this guy was.