Judge Rules Tiger Stadium Demolition Can Proceed

[kraig]

The OTSC also negotiated in good faith, and something tells me they knew DEGC was handing them a shitty deal. The DEGC did not act in good faith on the agreement. If DEGC *really* wanted to see Tiger Stadium redeveloped, they would have gone to the sun and the moon to make it happen.

You keep going to intentions when the focus is on actions. Had the OTSC been succesful in their actions then Tiger Stadium would still be in play. The OTSC went into this knowing what the DEGC's intentions were.

[ghettopalmetto]

You keep going to intentions when the focus is on actions. Had the OTSC been succesful in their actions then Tiger Stadium would still be in play. The OTSC went into this knowing what the DEGC's intentions were.

You're completely ignoring any actions that the DEGC took, in particular, that little vote they had to demolish a publicly-owned structure. Without that vote, REGARDLESS of what OTSC did or did not do, Tiger Stadium is still available for redevelopment.

[kraig]

You're completely ignoring any actions that the DEGC took, in particular, that little vote they had to demolish a publicly-owned structure. Without that vote, REGARDLESS of what OTSC did or did not do, Tiger Stadium is still available for redevelopment.

I'm with Bearinabox on this one. Again, if the OTSC had lived up to their end of the agreement, the DEGC would not have been able to vote to demolish Tiger Stadium. Because that would have been a violation of the agreement. Once the OTSC failed to live up to their end of the agreement, that cleared the way for the DEGC to vote to demolish the stadium.

[ghettopalmetto]

I'm with Bearinabox on this one. Again, if the OTSC had lived up to their end of the agreement, the DEGC would not have been able to vote to demolish Tiger Stadium. Because that would have been a violation of the agreement. Once the OTSC failed to live up to their end of the agreement, that cleared the way for the DEGC to vote to demolish the stadium.

You're starting to understand. Congratulations. Now, imagine what happens when one writes a contract that stipulates impossible timelines based on arbitrary made-up bullshit, and does nothing to work with the neighborhood group in an affirmative fashion, i.e. wait for the appropriated money to show up from Washington.

This project was designed by DEGC to fail from the get-go. It never had a chance.

[jcole]

You're starting to understand. Congratulations. Now, imagine what happens when one writes a contract that stipulates impossible timelines based on arbitrary made-up bullshit, and does nothing to work with the neighborhood group in an affirmative fashion, i.e. wait for the appropriated money to show up from Washington.

This project was designed by DEGC to fail from the get-go. It never had a chance.

Then perhaps it shouldn't have been agreed to.

[ghettopalmetto]

Then perhaps it shouldn't have been agreed to.

It was the only chance OTSC had. Otherwise, DEGC would have torn it down long ago. The OTSC was up against impossible odds in such a demolition-crazed city. I give them tons of credit for all the effort they knowingly put forth into this lost endeavor.

What is more important, and completely lost in this discussion, though, is that the supposed "economic growth" corporation sent a resounding message in this time of economic crisis for Detroit, and that message is that they are NOT willing to do business. But, you know, good luck with the empty lots and all. I'm sure *something* will get built there in the next fifty years or so.

[kraig]

You're starting to understand. Congratulations. Now, imagine what happens when one writes a contract that stipulates impossible timelines based on arbitrary made-up bullshit, and does nothing to work with the neighborhood group in an affirmative fashion, i.e. wait for the appropriated money to show up from Washington.

This project was designed by DEGC to fail from the get-go. It never had a chance.

Don't even try to pretend that you've made some type of point. With 1 million cash on hand, for OTSC to miss the March deadline was inexcusable. Missing the deadline was all on the OTSC, not on the DEGC or how the contract was set up.

[sherryrazor]

I agree that the OTSC's neo-Navin Field plan was a longshot. But if it had worked then this city and this area would have had something special. And you are a little wrong when you say that no old stadiums have been reused, I can think of the old Braves Field that was used for many years by Boston University for football [[as Nickerson Field), and after they dropped the sport has been successfully downsized and re-purposed for soccer. In San Diego Balboa Stadium, and in San Francisco Kezar Stadium have both been reconfigured from their pro football size and are still in use for high school football, soccer, track meets, and concerts.

Again, it would have been a longshot for this plan to have worked. But instead of having something potentially special and historically interesting, they were seemingly in a gigantic unstoppable hurry to turn it into just another example of all that's least special and most depressing about this city: another vacant lot. And nothing bothers me more about this - not the nostalgia of thousands, not the loss of structure itself, not the cheap crappy replacement, not the decades of history now irretrievably lost - than the fact that we end up with nothing but another wonderful, useless, stupid vacant lot as a monument to the idiotic lack of productive vision and respect for our history that has plagued this city throughout my life.

Hey, but "demolition is progress."

Just back from the "harvesting operation" being done at Mich & Trumbull.

Would it surprise anyone here to know that the Security Co. that OTSC has paid for through 6/30/09 has been replaced by "unpaid volunteers" of off-duty Detroit Police/Wayne Co. Sheriffs? They tell anyone who asks that they are volunteers, but after talking to a few folks in the know, and confronting them myself, I realized what was going down. The "volunteer security" guys on one of the golf carts had quite a chuckle when I threatened to call the police Monday night. Now I know why they laughed in my face in reply....and all this time, I thought it was Farrow doing the harvesting.

That's what the "volunteer security" team a/k/a off-duty Det. City Police/Wayne Co. Sheriffs are doing right now -- harvesting seats and anything else of value they can get their hands on before the Fat Lady Sings, and stuffing it in their vans, and Farrow tractor trailers. Paver bricks from plaza are still on pallets, covered in plastic. [[They must have about 50 pallets by now, stacked at what used to be Ilitch's Plaza).

This is from reliable sources, folks. Talked to a dude tonight who wanted to buy a row of seats & he told me his brother is a Detroit City cop. He was allowed in the Ballpark last week to take photos, but they wouldn't sell him anything then. He came back for a row of seats, and didn't offer enough $$ -- e.g., $1000 -- so they are blowing him off.

Since no "agreements" are being enforced with regard to the security co. OTSC paid for, it's a veritable FREE FOR ALL.

Guess everything will end up on ebay to the highest bidder.

As Jack said -- "THAT'S CHINATOWN".

[HazenPingree]

You read it here first:

Statement of the Old Tiger Stadium Conservancyregarding the recent demolitionof Tiger Stadium:

We are shockedat the recent demolition of Tiger Stadium. It dishonors the hundreds of thousands of dollars raised bythe Conservancy, the State of Michigan changes to the historic tax credit laws to enhance this project, the federal appropriation granted bythe U.S. Congress and
signed by President Obama, and the thousands of volunteer hours contributed by the Conservancy, its consultantsand its supporters in advancing this effort. We believe –and the DEGC has said theyagree –that we had made substantial progress toward our redevelopment
goal with a strong likelihood of ultimate successin the worst economy in decades. Then out of the blue, we received notice that the DEGC was tearing the stadium down. Inanswer to misleading statements made to the press and the CityCouncil bythe DEGC, we offer the following:

NO EXTENSIONS GIVEN:
The OTSC received no extension of anydeadline from the DEGC from the date the city agreed to spare the Navin Field portion of Tiger Stadium in 2008. Prior to that time, extensions were only received following intervention of the CityCouncil. The DEGC never granted any extension of its own accord.

SUBSTANTIAL CASH RAISED:
The OTSC raised more than $600,000 in cash from more than 700 contributors – individuals and entities –and secured the $3.8 million federal appropriationin the past nine months.

TAX CREDITS AVAILABLE:
Experts in tax credits and historic preservation commissioned bythe OTSC identified tax credits totaling more than $18 million for which the project was likely eligible. The OTSC made substantial progress in the complicated process to secure these tax credits. Potential buyers for the tax credits had been identified and the sale of the tax credits would have provided $18 million of cash for the project. This is exactly the same
financing structure that was used for other projects in the city, including the Book Cadillac Hotel development, so it was not an unfamiliar process to the DEGC.

ESCROW ESTABLISHED:
The OTSC deposited $300,000 in escrow with the DEGC to secure demolition costs and the purchase price of the stadium.

SECURITY / MAINTENANCE –100% PAID BY CONSERVANCY:
The OTSC paid $93,000 for security and maintenance for the period through June 30, 2009 and was able to payadditional sums required in the future for security and maintenance costs at the Stadium..

DEMOLITION COSTS –RED HERRING:
The “increased demolition costs” cited by the DEGC as a reason for immediate demolition were a function of the current low steel prices, which will likelyturn around with the economy and produce lower demolition costs again in the future.

BEST USE OF DEMOLITION FUNDS?
Demolition now will cost our financially stressed city$250,000 more than the funds deposited in escrow by the OTSC. Is this the highest priorityof the cityto spend taxpayer’s dollars on demolition at this time?

NO MEETING NOTICE / DEFECTIVE MEETING:
We had no notice from the DEGC of anymeetings of the CityCouncil or the Economic Development Corporation where the fate of the project was considered. In particular, we had no notice of the EDC meeting of June 2, 2009, which was conducted out of public view, and our first notice of the meeting and the demolition decision was from the press. At that meeting, the EDC members received no explanation of the OTSC’s
substantial progress to assist its board in making an informed decision. Moreover, though required under the Memorandum of Understanding [[MOU), theEDC Board did not make the determinations and findings required to terminate the MOU and authorize the demolition of the stadium, nor did the Board ratifythe action taken unilaterally by the DEGC [[in the name of the EDC) when it notified the OTSC a dayearlier that the
MOU was being terminated.

CURRENT M.O.U <1 YEAR OLD:
We had been working under the current MOU with the DEGC for less than one year, not since 1999, when the Tigers left for Comerica Park, as DEGC representatives have stated publicly. The OTSC was onlyincorporated in May, 2007, and the current board has onlybeen in place for the last year.

T.R.O. VIOLATED:
We were able to obtain a temporaryrestraining order on Friday, June 5, 2009 at 5 p.m. in an attempt to avoid significant damage to the stadium. At about the time the TRO was granted, the demolition resumed and later intensified until a supporter jumped the fence and gave the TRO order to the demolition operator at about 6:30 p.m. The demolition seemed to be intended to cause the most damage to disparate parts of the stadium in the shortest time. The demolition sacrifices in excess of $12 million of historic tax-credits to the city.

NO D.E.G.C. SUPPORT OR COOPERATION:
The DEGC provided us no technical, financial or organizational support whatever in our redevelopment efforts, and no other encouragement of anykind. For example, recently, the OTSC’s request to the DEGC for access to the field for press and fundraising purposes was denied.

NEIGHBORHOOD SUPPORT:
Though the DEGC has made public statements that neighborhood residents were supportive of demolition, in fact the Corktown neighborhood, the neighborhood that surrounds the stadium, was strongly in support of the efforts of the OTSC. The neighborhood’s own community development organization has two members on the OTSC board, and manyresidents of the neighborhood contributed both their money and time.

REMAINING STRUCTURE A VIABLE HISTORIC BUILDING:
Despite repeated characterizations bythe DEGC and media of the remaining portions of Tiger Stadium as a “stub” or “remnant,” the structure the city is currently demolishing was a viable, historic major league ballpark, circa 1930. It was not an incomplete or unusable remainder.

NO PLANS FOR THE SITE:
Before the demolition began, DEGC intimated that theywere in talks with outside developers –developers interested in a cleared and vacant site. Since demolition has begun, the DEGC has acknowledged that there are indeed no serious development proposals for this site.

Not onlythe city, but the state and the entire countryhave lost the opportunity to redevelop an historic treasure that wouldhave anchoreda significant enhancement of the near west side of Detroit and spurred much-needed economic development in the years ahead.
Instead, we will have an empty field at the corner of Michigan and Trumbull to further blight the landscape of our city. This historic “corner”will have a new meaning.

We thank our manysupporters for their steadfast support and encouragement, as well as their time, moneyand passionfor this project. You gave us the strength to carry this effort forward and we regret that the DEGC, the EDC and the city did not provideus the continued opportunity to achieve this objective.

The recent actions of the city, the EDC and the DEGC raise questions about the city’s priority regarding demolition and the use of the city’s funds. Whythe urgencyto spend hundreds of thousands of dollars of citymoneyto demolish at this time? Whyis the DEGC so quick to demolish the Navin Field portion of Tiger Stadium when there are thousands of vacant and abandoned structures throughout the city that are in need of immediate demolition and are clearly a danger to Detroit’s citizens and firefighters? What are the plans for the site that require immediate demolition? The political leaders of our city need to address these issues and take charge of setting the development priorities of the city.
Senator Levin has informed us that the Conservancyremains entitled to utilize the $3.8 million Federal appropriation that the U.S. Congress so generouslyprovided for economic development in or near the stadium site. In conjunction with the southwest Detroit community, we will determine how the money might best be invested and leveraged to have some good come of Senator Levin’s steadfast effort and support. We hope the citywill assist us with these efforts for the good of the cityand its citizens.

The failure of the DEGC to support the Conservancy is a tragic loss of a unique opportunity for economic development in the City of Detroit. The larger question the people of Detroit and the entire region should ask is whythe DEGC is allowed to heavy handedly run roughshod over the efforts of the not-for-profit and preservation communities and the thousands of citizens who are supporters of development efforts. The DEGC should be encouraging and assisting these efforts rather than quashing them at everyturn.

Old Tiger Stadium Conservancy
June 19, 2009

[kraig]

Took them long enough. A good time to drop this would have been two weeks ago before they had to go to court that Monday. The story was hot and receiving nationwide coverage. That would have been the best time to say something. What good does it do putting out a statement close to two weeks after the fact?

[Novine]

You stopped posting for a minute and they were finally able to get a word in.

[kraig]

You stopped posting for a minute and they were finally able to get a word in.

Is that the best you could come up with? I have to say that I'm disappointed, I thought you had more wit than that. Bad day, huh?

[Trumpeteer]

God damn Kraig! Almost 600 posts since April...get a life.i

[kraig]

God damn Kraig! Almost 600 posts since April...get a life.i

Have handheld computer, will travel. Stop hating. Do you have a comment that's on topic? If not, in the immortal words of Dave Chappelle playing Black Bush, SHUT THE FUCK UP!!!!!!!

[Trumpeteer]

WOW that really told me

[Beech Cricker]

You read it here first...

What happened to the OTSC release that had been posted here?

[Trumpeteer]

It was in "andylinn's" post #209 but now it's gone?????

[sherryrazor]

It was in "andylinn's" post #209 but now it's gone?????

WTF ?

kraig -- you didn't somehow hack into Lowell's PC, crack his code, gain administrator rights and remove it did you?? 'fess up now -- too much "truthiness" in that post put you over the edge?

[Stosh]

WTF ?

kraig -- you didn't somehow hack into Lowell's PC, crack his code, gain administrator rights and remove it did you?? 'fess up now -- too much "truthiness" in that post put you over the edge?

I'd think that was Andy's choice to do. Obvious reasons known to him.

[HazenPingree]

I have returned the letter, you can read it above. It was not hacking or anything crazy, I removed it myself. I had a second thought about posting it here so quickly, before it had a chance to matriculate through any potential media.

[Stosh]

I have returned the letter, you can read it above. It was not hacking or anything crazy, I removed it myself. I had a second thought about posting it here so quickly, before it had a chance to matriculate through any potential media.

Well, it IS on the OTSC website, so it's not like it's not out there anyway.

http://savetigerstadium.wordpress.com/

[sherryrazor]

It was not hacking or anything crazy, I removed it myself.

sorry -- that post I made to kraig was just meant to razz him saracastically -- should have used some of these

[1KielsonDrive]

Somebody here used to say something like -'tear that shit down'! Well, I agree! Not because it should be torn down but because Detroit doesn't deserve it! This city has demolished [[by neglect and every other means it could possibly conjure up) any and every thing worthwhile it's ever had. Old City Hall [[they oughtta tear the present one down with all of the politicians in it), Hudson's, Stroh Brewery, Joseph Campau House [[Little Harry's), Grand Riviera Theatre, Vanity, Graystone, etc, etc. I could go on and on. Most of the historic stuff they tear down here in Detroit, other cities would give an arm and a leg for. Look at the MCD. Look at Fort Wayne, Grande Ballroom. I'm sick of this fucking city. I've been to one game at COMA and I'll never attend another. I'll never eat another Little Pissy Caesar Pizza. No more Red Wings games. What in the fuck does anyone at City Hall expect tourists to come here to see? I've driven to Boston, Chicago, Cincinatti [[Crosley Field) just to see their old ballparks. I've been to other cities to see historic structures like the old fort in Baltimore Harbor. I forgot the name I'm so pissed. Fucking politicians in Detroit are just ignorant and crooked!

[kraig]

sorry -- that post I made to kraig was just meant to razz him saracastically -- should have used some of these

LOL. I thought you would still be out celebrating the Penguins Stanley Cup Victory. Since you did put a curse on my beloved Red Wings. Between people like you and kielsondrive, I may be the only Wings fan left.

Like I stated, at this late date, the letter is virtually of no use. My guess is someone at the OTSC finally realized that maybe someone should "carve out some time" and at least issue some kind of statement so that the Stadium supporters would not feel completely ignored.

On the bright side, the OTSC has been informed that they're entitled [[hmmm, didn't Kwame and the like always conduct themselves as entitled) to the 3.8 million dollars. Which I guess is true, since the money that was designated to a specific project now appears to be designated to a particular group. I'm sure there has to be more to it than that. Because if that's the case, that should be a big concern for everyone.

The OTSC has stated that it's going to work with the Southwest Community to determine how the money will be spent. Which is code for , Kathy Wendler and Steve Tobocman are about to decide how the money will be spent. If there are some OTSC Board Members that feel they were being ignored before, they ain't seen nothing yet.

Everyone keeps singling out George Jackson. He's only been the Director of DEGC since 2002, that's only seven years. Does anyone feel that how the DEGC is currently operating is a departure from the previous 20 years? The DEGC is going to do what the DEGC is going to do. The Board and Detroit Renaissance call the shots, not the DEGC's Executive Director.

[HazenPingree]

Like I stated, at this late date, the letter is virtually of no use.

Kraig, I don't really think there was a better time to have done it. Two weeks ago, the OTSC was trying to stay "politically" quiet. Legal means would only buy time. The OTSC knew they they had to be the classiest most polite group in order to woo Bing and have him stay the demolition. Hence the OTSC ordering the removal of the "Fire George Jackon" signs that were put up by a third party, and hence them not calling out the drity deeds of the DEGC before. Additionally, after the letter was drafted, it had to be approved by each of the board members... It was a group letter. You can't whip that up over night. Give them a break.

My guess is someone at the OTSC finally realized that maybe someone should "carve out some time" and at least issue some kind of statement so that the Stadium supporters would not feel completely ignored.

You're really somethin' else. This was by definition a volunteer organization. You really like to rag on the OTSC for carving out very valuable time to volunteer, but all you seem to be able to do is carve out time to post on Detroit Yes! Its easy to be a critic, it's alot harder to work with the mayor, the council, the DEGC, state legislaters, and US senators, to try to do something positive. I say, unless you're doing that, then stop griping about "carving out time."

On the bright side, the OTSC has been informed that they're entitled [[hmmm, didn't Kwame and the like always conduct themselves as entitled) to the 3.8 million dollars. Which I guess is true, since the money that was designated to a specific project now appears to be designated to a particular group. I'm sure there has to be more to it than that. Because if that's the case, that should be a big concern for everyone.

There has been no change... The earmark stipulated that it was to be used the the area around the ballpark for economic development by the OTSC... Still will.. Infact, if they can wrestle the field from GeoJack, they will build a small ball park there...

The OTSC has stated that it's going to work with the Southwest Community to determine how the money will be spent. Which is code for , Kathy Wendler and Steve Tobocman are about to decide how the money will be spent. If there are some OTSC Board Members that feel they were being ignored before, they ain't seen nothing yet.

I don't think you really know what's goin on here... This will be a group decision by a board of which neither one of us is a part. Let's not leave it to conjecture and instead just wait and see, ok?