Judge Rules Tiger Stadium Demolition Can Proceed

[buildingsofdetroit]

They've stripped the metal siding off the Cochrane side and munched all the way to the light tower above third base. My guess is if it doesn't fall tonight, it will tomorrow.

[kraig]

Uh, yeah--aren't they charged with promoting development in the city? They did just the opposite.

We all know what they're supposed to do. But are you saying that, in this instance, you weren't expecting them to scuttle the deal at the first opportunity?

[sherryrazor]

They've stripped the metal siding off the Cochrane side and munched all the way to the light tower above third base. My guess is if it doesn't fall tonight, it will tomorrow.

I just arrived back from the scene of the crime. When I arrived at 6:30 pm there was one "security" guy in the whole park, and Farrow was long gone. Then two big, burly guys were outside the gate that Farrow enters [underneath the bridge] waiting for the guy to let them in. I asked them if they were with the security co. that we [[as OTSC contributors) were paying for through June 30. They said they were.

Then, the one "security" person -- with no identifying mark -- e.g. the red t-shirt w/security co. name on it -- leaves through the gate, allows them in, and they procede to hop on the golf cart, ride around the field, enter the dugout, and bring several items to the Farrow trailer and began cleaning them up. I had my bird binoculars and could clearly see them cleaning up some kind of black electrical items?, not sure what they were.

We hop on our bikes and go back to where the green cloth has been torn down again across from Brooks Lumber and I scope them out with the binocs as they are "harvesting piles", get on my cell to call someone who asked for reportage. Golf cart guys pull right up to me and one asks me how I'm doing. I again ask them if they are the security co. we [OTSC] are paying for because they don't look familiar to me as the usual security co. guys I see every night in the red t-shirts. He tells me "we are volunteers -- Farrow let the security co. go and let us guard the field". I asked how we could volunteer. No way, says he. Told him there's no such thing as "volunteer security" . He then asked for my ID, after they had a good laugh when I said I would call the police because the place was being left unguarded as the lone security guy left, and it's only these two jokers with no hard hats on a golf cart, filling up their blue van with items. They rode off to gather more "stuff"

Back on the bike, I'm heading for the Farrow gate entrance, under the bridge, and a Mitsubishi pulls up and immediately pulls a hole shot after they see me writing down their license plate #.

Back on my bike to where the demo ended today, at the very edge of the soon to be gone light tower along 3rd base, and a guy jumps out of a gold-colored Sebring and immediately begins talking prices through the big tear in the green fabric to golf cart guys. Wife/GF in Sebring asks if I can help her as I write down their license plate #. Dude jumps back in the Sebring, and pulls out. Not 30 seconds later, another shiny new car, Ford Focus SVT, pulls up, talks to golf cart guys asking how much.

The lone "security" guard never did come back. Meanwhile, I called my friend on the cell back and he asked if they had a flashlight. I told him there was no need for any flashlight -- they just turned Farrows portable light towers on, and the entire What's Left of Our Ballpark was illuminated.

When they cranked up the lights, I then realized it was, indeed just a couple of Farrow guys harvesting what's left and making deals on the cell as they packed the trailers and van.

I know this is a long post, but here's the killer: I thought the golf cart guys looked familiar, as the one guy had a bid D tatooed on his leg, as well as the 300 lb. dude in Sebring making deals through the fence. THEY WERE THE DRUNKS ON THE FIELD PLAYING BASEBALL THAT CH. 4 caught on camera way back in 2006, I think, when that security co. got fired when the City was "handling security".

I get it -- Farrow all along, just stringing us along.

We split when we heard the sound of their blowtorches, [[cutting apart blue or orange seat sections, probably) and the sounds coming from inside the concourse where the scavenging of the grave continued.

[Novine]

A firm involved with DEGC that's corrupt? It couldn't be.

[Beech Cricker]

We all know what they're supposed to do. But are you saying that, in this instance, you weren't expecting them to scuttle the deal at the first opportunity?

Actually I'm surprised the DEGC took as long as they did to give it the axe.

[kraig]

Actually I'm surprised the DEGC took as long as they did to give it the axe.

They had to wait for the OTSC to mess up. I know that, you probably know that, and if there is anyone who should have known that, it was the OTSC. And by missing the March deadline and not trying to correct that action for 90 days is where the OTSC messed up. I know that there are people that don't want to see it that way, but it's true. The OTSC was keenly aware of what would happen if they missed a deadline.

[Beech Cricker]

They had to wait for the OTSC to mess up. I know that, you probably know that, and if there is anyone who should have known that, it was the OTSC. And by missing the March deadline and not trying to correct that action for 90 days is where the OTSC messed up. I know that there are people that don't want to see it that way, but it's true. The OTSC was keenly aware of what would happen if they missed a deadline.

So what really did the OTSC "mess up" regarding the March deadline, other than not having having all of the physical cash in hand?

[kraig]

So what really did the OTSC "mess up" regarding the March deadline, other than not having having all of the physical cash in hand?

That was it. That and never trying to pay the money for the 90 days after the March Deadline. If a mistake is made, you always correct it as soon as possible, they didn't.

[ghettopalmetto]

That was it. That and never trying to pay the money for the 90 days after the March Deadline. If a mistake is made, you always correct it as soon as possible, they didn't.

It sure as hell would help if the Detroit Economic Growth Corporation were interested in economic growth.

[kraig]

It sure as hell would help if the Detroit Economic Growth Corporation were interested in economic growth.

It sure would. And if you're dealing with them and they don't seem interested in helping you, you better make sure that you do everything to help yourself. If you know that they are a roadblock that's in your way, you better not do anything, like missing deadlines, to put roadblocks in your own way knowing that you're already dealing with them as a roadblock.

[ghettopalmetto]

It sure would. And if you're dealing with them and they don't seem interested in helping you, you better make sure that you do everything to help yourself. If you know that they are a roadblock that's in your way, you better not do anything, like missing deadlines, to put roadblocks in your own way knowing that you're already dealing with them as a roadblock.

We get it. You're blaming the party that had no legal responsibility for the property.

[kraig]

We get it. You're blaming the party that had no legal responsibility for the property.

It's on both parties, the DEGC's philosophy and actions were a given in this situation, though. I'm pointing out that things are not as one-sided as is being portrayed by some people.

Are you trying to say that the OTSC did nothing wrong?

[xD_Brklyn]

There's no way the OTSC could have raised the money by the March deadline. Impossible. The DEGC wanted the stadium torn down and they wanted the OTSC to fail. I've seen this happen in the workplace a couple of times. When management wants to get rid of someone for some reason not work related, they increase that persons job responsibilities past the breaking point, so they just have to point out everything the employee is unable to do. Of course, the employee could just quit when they get this job responsibility overload, but they don't because they hope management will relent or think twice further down the road. Don't know if there's a name for this "project to fail" tactic, but I've seen it at work more than once, and it was definitely used by the DEGC on the OTSC.

But whatever, now maybe the DEGC can use the corner of Trumbull and Michigan for more dollar stores and discount grocery stores and continue to showcase "all the money to be made in the city."

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124510185111216455.html

[kraig]

The definition of insanity is repeating the same mistakes and expecting different results.

Those that don't learn from the past are doomed to repeat the same mistakes.


This applies to both sides.

[HazenPingree]

Kraig, I never intended to infer that some in the OTSC were less helpful than others. It is my understanding that every single one of the board members put in many many hours of work, and pitched in as much as they could.

The DEGC should be ashamed of itself. They did want the project to fail. $15m cash, if you count cash as donations alone, was far more cash than the project actually needed. The project only needed what, $6m cash? and the OTSC had $1m in hand...

I can't wait to see what "economic development" the DEGC has planned for the site. LOL. Watch the DEGC either leave it vacant for 30 years OR watch them turn around and sell it to the OTSC...

[kraig]

Kraig, I never intended to infer that some in the OTSC were less helpful than others. It is my understanding that every single one of the board members put in many many hours of work, and pitched in as much as they could.

The DEGC should be ashamed of itself. They did want the project to fail. $15m cash, if you count cash as donations alone, was far more cash than the project actually needed. The project only needed what, $6m cash? and the OTSC had $1m in hand...

I can't wait to see what "economic development" the DEGC has planned for the site. LOL. Watch the DEGC either leave it vacant for 30 years OR watch them turn around and sell it to the OTSC...

So, according to you, the OTSC had 1 million in cash when they missed their March deadline. [[xd_brklyn, I hope you got that)

If they had 1 million cash in hand and didn't pay their bill, that's irresponsibility on the OTSC's part. Furthermore, since you like to talk about being disrespectful, it's very disrespectful for all of those people that donated their hard earned, personal money, that they aren't going to get back, to the OTSC. The OTSC had an obligation to spend that donated money on its intended purpose and they did not, if what you say is accurate. The DEGC had nothing to do with that, that's all on the OTSC.

[ghettopalmetto]

So, according to you, the OTSC had 1 million in cash when they missed their March deadline. [[xd_brklyn, I hope you got that)

If they had 1 million cash in hand and didn't pay their bill, that's irresponsibility on the OTSC's part. Furthermore, since you like to talk about being disrespectful, it's very disrespectful for all of those people that donated their hard earned, personal money, that they aren't going to get back, to the OTSC. The OTSC had an obligation to spend that donated money on its intended purpose and they did not, if what you say is accurate. The DEGC had nothing to do with that, that's all on the OTSC.

So, kraig, how long have you been working as George Jackson's press secretary?

[kraig]

So, kraig, how long have you been working as George Jackson's press secretary?

Wow, another zinger. You must be very proud of your debating skills. Like I've stated before, there's fault on both sides. But I understand, there are always some people out there that are willing to blame all of their problems on other people instead of actually taking the responsibility to improve their conditions themselves.

[HazenPingree]

So, according to you, the OTSC had 1 million in cash when they missed their March deadline. [[xd_brklyn, I hope you got that)

If they had 1 million cash in hand and didn't pay their bill, that's irresponsibility on the OTSC's part. Furthermore, since you like to talk about being disrespectful, it's very disrespectful for all of those people that donated their hard earned, personal money, that they aren't going to get back, to the OTSC. The OTSC had an obligation to spend that donated money on its intended purpose and they did not, if what you say is accurate. The DEGC had nothing to do with that, that's all on the OTSC.

Kraig, you seem to "know" alot of information about the OTSC that I don't! Who are you and who do you work for? What "bill" are you referring to? They paid their security "bill" up through June... I know of no other "bill." They had no debts outstanding as far as I know.

[HazenPingree]

Wow, another zinger. You must be very proud of your debating skills. Like I've stated before, there's fault on both sides. But I understand, there are always some people out there that are willing to blame all of their problems on other people instead of actually taking the responsibility to improve their conditions themselves.

Would you consider attacking a volunteer economic development agency made up of some of the city's best business people, "taking the responsibility to improve [your] conditions [yourself]?"

[kraig]

Would you consider attacking a volunteer economic development agency made up of some of the city's best business people, "taking the responsibility to improve [your] conditions [yourself]?"

I don't consider it an attack. I consider it taking a very critical look at. The best diamonds are the ones that hold up to the highest standards and the highest degrees of examination. Right now, the worst thing for the OTSC is to walk away from this experience not knowing the mistakes they made and the things that they could have done better. That's one of the reasons I'm being hard on them. Consider it tough love if you will. There are too many members of the OTSC that are connected to the GCDC for things to have not been tighter with how the operation went. Everyone didn't play their particular roles on this one. In the future, Tobocman is good with connecting to someone like Levin. But, leave it at that, he can't plan for shit and was a one issue legislator the same as his protege Tlaib is. He lacks vision and is not an operations guy. Wendler is good at the public hearings because she knows how to work City Council and the City Planning Commission. Next time, have her talking to Council and CPC on a daily, or at least, weekly basis. Council was to disconnected to be of any use to the OTSC. Do not, I repeat, do not, let her distract things by trying to determine how the money will be spent and by who, on what. That's not her strength. The GCDC people are the ones that have the most experience with development projects and day to day operations. They should never have been afterthoughts in any way shape or form.

Now, of course I welcome your comments, because you do have some good ones, when emotions aren't writing them.

[ghettopalmetto]

I don't consider it an attack. I consider it taking a very critical look at. The best diamonds are the ones that hold up to the highest standards and the highest degrees of examination. Right now, the worst thing for the OTSC is to walk away from this experience not knowing the mistakes they made and the things that they could have done better. That's one of the reasons I'm being hard on them. Consider it tough love if you will. There are too many members of the OTSC that are connected to the GCDC for things to have not been tighter with how the operation went. Everyone didn't play their particular roles on this one. In the future, Tobocman is good with connecting to someone like Levin. But, leave it at that, he can't plan for shit and was a one issue legislator the same as his protege Tlaib is. He lacks vision and is not an operations guy. Wendler is good at the public hearings because she knows how to work City Council and the City Planning Commission. Next time, have her talking to Council and CPC on a daily, or at least, weekly basis. Council was to disconnected to be of any use to the OTSC. Do not, I repeat, do not, let her distract things by trying to determine how the money will be spent and by who, on what. That's not her strength. The GCDC people are the ones that have the most experience with development projects and day to day operations. They should never have been afterthoughts in any way shape or form.

Now, of course I welcome your comments, because you do have some good ones, when emotions aren't writing them.

I'm still having an impossible time understanding how the demolition is the fault of the people who were trying to save Tiger Stadium. Where is the CAUSAL RELATIONSHIP between the actions of OTSC and the demolition? If I'm not mistaken, demolition could not have happened until the DEGC VOTED to demolish Tiger Stadium.

If someone's house falls to shit and the city condemns it, do you blame the neighborhood garden club for not saving it?

[kraig]

I'm still having an impossible time understanding how the demolition is the fault of the people who were trying to save Tiger Stadium. Where is the CAUSAL RELATIONSHIP between the actions of OTSC and the demolition? If I'm not mistaken, demolition could not have happened until the DEGC VOTED to demolish Tiger Stadium.

If someone's house falls to shit and the city condemns it, do you blame the neighborhood garden club for not saving it?

If the neighborhood garden club doesn't want to let the owner tear down the house that's, fallen to shit, and reaches an agreement with the owner to preserve the house. Wouldn't it be the neighborhood garden club's fault if they failed to live up to their end of the agreement?

As far as the owner was concerned, a chance was given to the neighborhood garden club. Taking advantage of that chance is the garden club's responsibility not the owner's. If something happens to someone in the house, who's going to be sued? The owner who has a lot of money and has a history of being sued and losing in court, or the neighborhood garden club that doesn't have any money?

Putting aside hypotheticals. there's no way an entity can seek a 33 million dollar renovation project and not be willing to take on any responsibility for the outcome. That's well beyond being naive, that's juvenile or childish behavior.

[ghettopalmetto]

If the neighborhood garden club doesn't want to let the owner tear down the house that's, fallen to shit, and reaches an agreement with the owner to preserve the house. Wouldn't it be the neighborhood garden club's fault if they failed to live up to their end of the agreement?

As far as the owner was concerned, a chance was given to the neighborhood garden club. Taking advantage of that chance is the garden club's responsibility not the owner's. If something happens to someone in the house, who's going to be sued? The owner who has a lot of money and has a history of being sued and losing in court, or the neighborhood garden club that doesn't have any money?

Putting aside hypotheticals. there's no way an entity can seek a 33 million dollar renovation project and not be willing to take on any responsibility for the outcome. That's well beyond being naive, that's juvenile or childish behavior.

The OTSC also negotiated in good faith, and something tells me they knew DEGC was handing them a shitty deal. The DEGC did not act in good faith on the agreement. If DEGC *really* wanted to see Tiger Stadium redeveloped, they would have gone to the sun and the moon to make it happen.

[Bearinabox]

This conversation is going in circles.