Judge Rules Tiger Stadium Demolition Can Proceed

**kraig** · June-15-09, 09:06 AM

"The problem was the majority of the OTSC didn't do much of anything."

You would think that Andy would have made a point to dispute this statement. Sometimes silence speaks volumes.

**Novine** · June-15-09, 09:29 AM

Or he has a life which doesn't allow him to post dozens of times to the same thread like others do on here?

**kraig** · June-15-09, 08:51 AM

Originally Posted by andylinn

kraig, are you thinking of the mass email by Jeff Wattrick?

Although it wasn't visible to me, I was informed it was sarcasm.

The one I'm referring to is somewhere on DetroitYes. It didn't appear as sarcasm to me.

**Tigersfan** · June-15-09, 07:54 AM

"That reminds me: They finished demolishing old Tiger Stadium. It's now an expanse of depressing rubble and debris, a city block in ruins. Meaning it now looks like most every other block in downtown Detroit."

http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/story/1096120.html

**xD_Brklyn** · June-16-09, 10:55 AM

There's no way the OTSC could have raised the money by the March deadline. Impossible. The DEGC wanted the stadium torn down and they wanted the OTSC to fail. I've seen this happen in the workplace a couple of times. When management wants to get rid of someone for some reason not work related, they increase that persons job responsibilities past the breaking point, so they just have to point out everything the employee is unable to do. Of course, the employee could just quit when they get this job responsibility overload, but they don't because they hope management will relent or think twice further down the road. Don't know if there's a name for this "project to fail" tactic, but I've seen it at work more than once, and it was definitely used by the DEGC on the OTSC.

But whatever, now maybe the DEGC can use the corner of Trumbull and Michigan for more dollar stores and discount grocery stores and continue to showcase "all the money to be made in the city."

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124510185111216455.html

**kraig** · June-16-09, 11:41 AM

The definition of insanity is repeating the same mistakes and expecting different results.

Those that don't learn from the past are doomed to repeat the same mistakes.

This applies to both sides.

**HazenPingree** · June-16-09, 12:26 PM

Kraig, I never intended to infer that some in the OTSC were less helpful than others. It is my understanding that every single one of the board members put in many many hours of work, and pitched in as much as they could.

The DEGC should be ashamed of itself. They did want the project to fail. $15m cash, if you count cash as donations alone, was far more cash than the project actually needed. The project only needed what, $6m cash? and the OTSC had $1m in hand...

I can't wait to see what "economic development" the DEGC has planned for the site. LOL. Watch the DEGC either leave it vacant for 30 years OR watch them turn around and sell it to the OTSC...

**kraig** · June-16-09, 12:38 PM

Originally Posted by andylinn

Kraig, I never intended to infer that some in the OTSC were less helpful than others. It is my understanding that every single one of the board members put in many many hours of work, and pitched in as much as they could.

The DEGC should be ashamed of itself. They did want the project to fail. $15m cash, if you count cash as donations alone, was far more cash than the project actually needed. The project only needed what, $6m cash? and the OTSC had $1m in hand...

I can't wait to see what "economic development" the DEGC has planned for the site. LOL. Watch the DEGC either leave it vacant for 30 years OR watch them turn around and sell it to the OTSC...

So, according to you, the OTSC had 1 million in cash when they missed their March deadline. [[xd_brklyn, I hope you got that)

If they had 1 million cash in hand and didn't pay their bill, that's irresponsibility on the OTSC's part. Furthermore, since you like to talk about being disrespectful, it's very disrespectful for all of those people that donated their hard earned, personal money, that they aren't going to get back, to the OTSC. The OTSC had an obligation to spend that donated money on its intended purpose and they did not, if what you say is accurate. The DEGC had nothing to do with that, that's all on the OTSC.

**ghettopalmetto** · June-16-09, 12:42 PM

Originally Posted by kraig

So, according to you, the OTSC had 1 million in cash when they missed their March deadline. [[xd_brklyn, I hope you got that)

If they had 1 million cash in hand and didn't pay their bill, that's irresponsibility on the OTSC's part. Furthermore, since you like to talk about being disrespectful, it's very disrespectful for all of those people that donated their hard earned, personal money, that they aren't going to get back, to the OTSC. The OTSC had an obligation to spend that donated money on its intended purpose and they did not, if what you say is accurate. The DEGC had nothing to do with that, that's all on the OTSC.

So, kraig, how long have you been working as George Jackson's press secretary?

**HazenPingree** · June-16-09, 01:06 PM

Originally Posted by kraig

So, according to you, the OTSC had 1 million in cash when they missed their March deadline. [[xd_brklyn, I hope you got that)

If they had 1 million cash in hand and didn't pay their bill, that's irresponsibility on the OTSC's part. Furthermore, since you like to talk about being disrespectful, it's very disrespectful for all of those people that donated their hard earned, personal money, that they aren't going to get back, to the OTSC. The OTSC had an obligation to spend that donated money on its intended purpose and they did not, if what you say is accurate. The DEGC had nothing to do with that, that's all on the OTSC.

Kraig, you seem to "know" alot of information about the OTSC that I don't! Who are you and who do you work for? What "bill" are you referring to? They paid their security "bill" up through June... I know of no other "bill." They had no debts outstanding as far as I know.

**Novine** · June-19-09, 03:31 PM

You stopped posting for a minute and they were finally able to get a word in.

**kraig** · June-19-09, 09:51 PM

Originally Posted by Novine

You stopped posting for a minute and they were finally able to get a word in.

Is that the best you could come up with? I have to say that I'm disappointed, I thought you had more wit than that. Bad day, huh?

**Trumpeteer** · June-19-09, 10:25 PM

God damn Kraig! Almost 600 posts since April...get a life.

i

**kraig** · June-19-09, 10:48 PM

Originally Posted by Trumpeteer

God damn Kraig! Almost 600 posts since April...get a life.

i

Have handheld computer, will travel. Stop hating. Do you have a comment that's on topic? If not, in the immortal words of Dave Chappelle playing Black Bush, SHUT THE FUCK UP!!!!!!!

**Trumpeteer** · June-20-09, 07:36 AM

WOW that really told me

**Trumpeteer** · June-20-09, 08:37 AM

It was in "andylinn's" post #209 but now it's gone?????

**sherryrazor** · June-20-09, 09:21 AM

Originally Posted by Trumpeteer

It was in "andylinn's" post #209 but now it's gone?????

WTF ?

kraig -- you didn't somehow hack into Lowell's PC, crack his code, gain administrator rights and remove it did you?? 'fess up now -- too much "truthiness" in that post put you over the edge?

Stosh · June-20-09, 09:28 AM

Originally Posted by sherryrazor

WTF ?

kraig -- you didn't somehow hack into Lowell's PC, crack his code, gain administrator rights and remove it did you?? 'fess up now -- too much "truthiness" in that post put you over the edge?

I'd think that was Andy's choice to do. Obvious reasons known to him.

**HazenPingree** · June-20-09, 10:29 AM

I have returned the letter, you can read it above. It was not hacking or anything crazy, I removed it myself. I had a second thought about posting it here so quickly, before it had a chance to matriculate through any potential media.

Stosh · June-20-09, 10:32 AM

Originally Posted by andylinn

I have returned the letter, you can read it above. It was not hacking or anything crazy, I removed it myself. I had a second thought about posting it here so quickly, before it had a chance to matriculate through any potential media.

Well, it IS on the OTSC website, so it's not like it's not out there anyway.

http://savetigerstadium.wordpress.com/

**sherryrazor** · June-20-09, 11:38 AM

Originally Posted by andylinn

It was not hacking or anything crazy, I removed it myself.

sorry -- that post I made to kraig was just meant to razz him saracastically -- should have used some of these

**kraig** · June-21-09, 08:39 AM

Originally Posted by sherryrazor

sorry -- that post I made to kraig was just meant to razz him saracastically -- should have used some of these

LOL. I thought you would still be out celebrating the Penguins Stanley Cup Victory. Since you did put a curse on my beloved Red Wings. Between people like you and kielsondrive, I may be the only Wings fan left.

Like I stated, at this late date, the letter is virtually of no use. My guess is someone at the OTSC finally realized that maybe someone should "carve out some time" and at least issue some kind of statement so that the Stadium supporters would not feel completely ignored.

On the bright side, the OTSC has been informed that they're entitled [[hmmm, didn't Kwame and the like always conduct themselves as entitled) to the 3.8 million dollars. Which I guess is true, since the money that was designated to a specific project now appears to be designated to a particular group. I'm sure there has to be more to it than that. Because if that's the case, that should be a big concern for everyone.

The OTSC has stated that it's going to work with the Southwest Community to determine how the money will be spent. Which is code for , Kathy Wendler and Steve Tobocman are about to decide how the money will be spent. If there are some OTSC Board Members that feel they were being ignored before, they ain't seen nothing yet.

Everyone keeps singling out George Jackson. He's only been the Director of DEGC since 2002, that's only seven years. Does anyone feel that how the DEGC is currently operating is a departure from the previous 20 years? The DEGC is going to do what the DEGC is going to do. The Board and Detroit Renaissance call the shots, not the DEGC's Executive Director.

**HazenPingree** · June-21-09, 10:39 AM

Like I stated, at this late date, the letter is virtually of no use.

Kraig, I don't really think there was a better time to have done it. Two weeks ago, the OTSC was trying to stay "politically" quiet. Legal means would only buy time. The OTSC knew they they had to be the classiest most polite group in order to woo Bing and have him stay the demolition. Hence the OTSC ordering the removal of the "Fire George Jackon" signs that were put up by a third party, and hence them not calling out the drity deeds of the DEGC before. Additionally, after the letter was drafted, it had to be approved by each of the board members... It was a group letter. You can't whip that up over night. Give them a break.

My guess is someone at the OTSC finally realized that maybe someone should "carve out some time" and at least issue some kind of statement so that the Stadium supporters would not feel completely ignored.

You're really somethin' else. This was by definition a volunteer organization. You really like to rag on the OTSC for carving out very valuable time to volunteer, but all you seem to be able to do is carve out time to post on Detroit Yes! Its easy to be a critic, it's alot harder to work with the mayor, the council, the DEGC, state legislaters, and US senators, to try to do something positive. I say, unless you're doing that, then stop griping about "carving out time."

On the bright side, the OTSC has been informed that they're entitled [[hmmm, didn't Kwame and the like always conduct themselves as entitled) to the 3.8 million dollars. Which I guess is true, since the money that was designated to a specific project now appears to be designated to a particular group. I'm sure there has to be more to it than that. Because if that's the case, that should be a big concern for everyone.

There has been no change... The earmark stipulated that it was to be used the the area around the ballpark for economic development by the OTSC... Still will.. Infact, if they can wrestle the field from GeoJack, they will build a small ball park there...

The OTSC has stated that it's going to work with the Southwest Community to determine how the money will be spent. Which is code for , Kathy Wendler and Steve Tobocman are about to decide how the money will be spent. If there are some OTSC Board Members that feel they were being ignored before, they ain't seen nothing yet.

I don't think you really know what's goin on here... This will be a group decision by a board of which neither one of us is a part. Let's not leave it to conjecture and instead just wait and see, ok?

**kraig** · June-21-09, 11:03 AM

Wait and see, fine. A lot of people on DetroitYes are just as mad with me as people involved with the DEGC and Detroit Renaissance. The most ironic thing is that the things that people are saying here about them, they're saying about you. Now, if people are of the opinion that my attitude should be, I've got mine you've got to get yours, so be it. I've always gotten what I want from the DDA and DEGC. Good Luck to you, I wish you the best.

**JMarx** · June-22-09, 03:43 PM

It is officially gone...Tiger Stadium's [[remaining) upper deck collapses...she's a pile of rubble now...

http://www.freep.com/article/2009062...+in+demolition