Judge Rules Tiger Stadium Demolition Can Proceed

**R8RBOB** · June-09-09, 01:02 PM

Originally Posted by ghettopalmetto

Suddenly, you're an architect. Stellar.

No, I'm a realist. Care to join me?

**ghettopalmetto** · June-09-09, 01:03 PM

Originally Posted by R8RBOB

If the people wanted to occupy the "old Tiger Stadium" then all they had to do is show the city the money. It is that simple. All they did is talk about the money.

What's the funding source for the demolition???

Since OTSC was paying the money for maintenance of Tiger Stadium, it seems they had more money than the ever-broke City of Detroit. The difference is that one of the entities had an actual plan to have that property generate revenue and economic development. Hint: It wasn't the Demolition Embezzlement and Graft Corporation

**GREENTROIT** · June-09-09, 01:05 PM

Originally Posted by ghettopalmetto

What's the funding source for the demolition???

Demolition costs were zero dollars. The city allowed the contractors to sell scrap for profit, and the city payed them zero in return.

**ghettopalmetto** · June-09-09, 01:07 PM

Originally Posted by GREENTROIT

Demolition costs were zero dollars. The city allowed the contractors to sell scrap for profit, and the city payed them zero in return.

Oh, because you know this despite no invoices being generated thus far. Damn, you must be omniscient.

**kraig** · June-09-09, 01:08 PM

Originally Posted by ghettopalmetto

What's the funding source for the demolition???

Since OTSC was paying the money for maintenance of Tiger Stadium, it seems they had more money than the ever-broke City of Detroit. The difference is that one of the entities had an actual plan to have that property generate revenue and economic development. Hint: It wasn't the Demolition Embezzlement and Graft Corporation

The funding source for the demolition was selling the scrap metal from the stadium. The City of Detroit hasn't had to pay for any demolition concerning the Stadium. It's been well documented and even the OTSC will admit to that.

**ghettopalmetto** · June-09-09, 02:17 PM

Originally Posted by kraig

The funding source for the demolition was selling the scrap metal from the stadium. The City of Detroit hasn't had to pay for any demolition concerning the Stadium. It's been well documented and even the OTSC will admit to that.

The City of Detroit hasn't had to pay for any demolition concerning the remainder of the stadium [[i.e. the portion that was proposed by OTSC to be redeveloped) because the demolition contractor has yet to send an invoice. Unless, of course, the contractor was silly enough to sign a contract stating they would work strictly for the scrap value of the steel.

**GREENTROIT** · June-09-09, 02:23 PM

ghettopalmetto...

Actually because the price of steel has dropped considerably since the initial demolition was halted, the city now owes the contractors about $400,000. And because the "ever-broke City of Detroit" was smart enough to hold the OTSC accountable for their constant pleas to wait, the OTSC will have to pay $300,000 of that. So in a way, the city is paying $100,000 for demolition.

And in an ironic turn, the Old Tiger Stadium Conserancy is paying $300,000 to demolish Tiger Stadium.

**GREENTROIT** · June-09-09, 02:25 PM

Originally Posted by ghettopalmetto

Unless, of course, the contractor was silly enough to sign a contract stating they would work strictly for the scrap value of the steel.

Heyyyyy!!!! You finally got it! Congratulations!

**kraig** · June-09-09, 02:26 PM

Originally Posted by ghettopalmetto

The City of Detroit hasn't had to pay for any demolition concerning the remainder of the stadium [[i.e. the portion that was proposed by OTSC to be redeveloped) because the demolition contractor has yet to send an invoice. Unless, of course, the contractor was silly enough to sign a contract stating they would work strictly for the scrap value of the steel.

The only reason they will have to pay is if the value of the scrap metal has gone down too significantly.

**ghettopalmetto** · June-09-09, 02:30 PM

Originally Posted by kraig

The only reason they will have to pay is if the value of the scrap metal has gone down too significantly.

Been watching the steel industry lately?

**GREENTROIT** · June-09-09, 02:39 PM

Originally Posted by ghettopalmetto

Been watching the steel industry lately?

Again, the OTSC will be paying for the drop in value of the steel.

**kraig** · June-09-09, 02:40 PM

Originally Posted by ghettopalmetto

Been watching the steel industry lately?

Have you been reading Greentroit's posts lately?

**ghettopalmetto** · June-09-09, 02:45 PM

Originally Posted by GREENTROIT

Again, the OTSC will be paying for the drop in value of the steel.

Can someone involved with OTSC comment? I find it implausible that:

1) a contractor would sign a contract that paid an indeterminate amount of money, based strictly on final quantities of steel demolished and the price at which scrap steel is selling on an undetermined day

and 2) that the OTSC would agree, in writing, to pay for any cost overruns in demolition.

You do know, that if this is in fact the case, DEGC is a de facto monster with all the power and none of the responsibility. Hope you like living on the prairie.

**HazenPingree** · June-09-09, 02:50 PM

Originally Posted by GREENTROIT

ghettopalmetto...

Actually because the price of steel has dropped considerably since the initial demolition was halted, the city now owes the contractors about $400,000. And because the "ever-broke City of Detroit" was smart enough to hold the OTSC accountable for their constant pleas to wait, the OTSC will have to pay $300,000 of that. So in a way, the city is paying $100,000 for demolition.

And in an ironic turn, the Old Tiger Stadium Conserancy is paying $300,000 to demolish Tiger Stadium.

Yet another hole in the sham argument of the DEGC... "scrap prices have dropped... we need to demolish now before they drop more!" BS. the DEGC knows damn well that if they had waited, the price of scrap would have risen, and demolition would have been free again. Get rid of the liars please. To borrow a line from the CLASH "I'm so bored with the DEGC"

**GREENTROIT** · June-09-09, 02:51 PM

Here's a link to a column in Sports Illustrated, scroll to the last paragraph:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200....ap/index.html

**ghettopalmetto** · June-09-09, 02:53 PM

$400 Large doesn't sound too "free" to me!

Let's not forget any opportunity costs associated with the tax revenues not realized by the redevelopment, or the concomitant drop in property values in the surrounding area, now that they have a nice, enormous, vacant lot to enjoy.

**HazenPingree** · June-09-09, 02:53 PM

I am not with the OTSC, but I know some of the details. The OTSC was at the mercy of a bully, the DEGC. If the OTSC wanted to play ball, they had to give the DEGC whatever they wanted. The DEGC would place random demands... Obviously, it is now apparent that in March, the DEGC was ready the AXE the plan, but they led the OTSC on and milked them for more money, lied to the public, and lied to the OTSC.

**R8RBOB** · June-09-09, 02:55 PM

Originally Posted by GREENTROIT

Here's a link to a column in Sports Illustrated, scroll to the last paragraph:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200....ap/index.html

Sucks to be the OTSC. In a twist of irony they will be paying the majority of the cost for the removal of the last section of the stadium.

**ghettopalmetto** · June-09-09, 02:57 PM

Originally Posted by andylinn

I am not with the OTSC, but I know some of the details. The OTSC was at the mercy of a bully, the DEGC. If the OTSC wanted to play ball, they had to give the DEGC whatever they wanted. The DEGC would place random demands... Obviously, it is now apparent that in March, the DEGC was ready the AXE the plan, but they led the OTSC on and milked them for more money, lied to the public, and lied to the OTSC.

Sounds great for business. I can just see all the developers lining up to do business with the DEGC now.

**kraig** · June-09-09, 03:03 PM

Originally Posted by andylinn

Yet another hole in the sham argument of the DEGC... "scrap prices have dropped... we need to demolish now before they drop more!" BS. the DEGC knows damn well that if they had waited, the price of scrap would have risen, and demolition would have been free again. Get rid of the liars please. To borrow a line from the CLASH "I'm so bored with the DEGC"

"If they had waited, the price of scrap would have risen". Who told you that? Madoff.

Come on Andy, I understand that this is an emotional issue for you, but, Damn!!!!

By the way, what lie did they tell to the OTSC? If you don't make your payment, we're going to tear it down?

**R8RBOB** · June-09-09, 03:03 PM

Originally Posted by andylinn

I am not with the OTSC, but I know some of the details. The OTSC was at the mercy of a bully, the DEGC. If the OTSC wanted to play ball, they had to give the DEGC whatever they wanted. The DEGC would place random demands... Obviously, it is now apparent that in March, the DEGC was ready the AXE the plan, but they led the OTSC on and milked them for more money, lied to the public, and lied to the OTSC.

Playing devil's advocate here......what if OTSC had gone to the DEGC and instead of giving them promises of coming up with the money instead threw the $33.4 million that was suggested on the desk of George Jackson. Do you think he and the DEGC would have killed the deal after seeing 33 million at close range?

**urbanoutdoors** · June-09-09, 03:12 PM

Originally Posted by R8RBOB

Playing devil's advocate here......what if OTSC had gone to the DEGC and instead of giving them promises of coming up with the money instead threw the $33.4 million that was suggested on the desk of George Jackson. Do you think he and the DEGC would have killed the deal after seeing 33 million at close range?

You do realize that virtually no development project works like that.... The Book Cad took 10 years and 19 layers of financing to do.... For a project such as the OTSC was proposing it would have taken quite a bit as well... The main thing it takes to secure neccesary funding is time which the DEGC was not willing to give...

**R8RBOB** · June-09-09, 03:25 PM

Originally Posted by urbanoutdoors

You do realize that virtually no development project works like that.... The Book Cad took 10 years and 19 layers of financing to do.... For a project such as the OTSC was proposing it would have taken quite a bit as well... The main thing it takes to secure neccesary funding is time which the DEGC was not willing to give...

Trust me, my friend I know things don't work that way. Remember I started my statement with a "what if"

I am not a supporter of the DEGC. It is a bunch of bureaucrats. As for the OTSC, I give them credit. They were driven to save Tiger Stadium because of past memories. Tiger Stadium was great in "ITS" day but its best days have long since passed. If the Tigers had the same love for Tiger Stadium as the OTSC then they would still be playing there but that was not the case.

**Trumpeteer** · June-09-09, 03:54 PM

Originally Posted by GREENTROIT

@Jackie and @Trumpeteer...

@ Trumpeteer:

I have many, many friends in Boston [[I used to live there). And yes, Fenway has a nostalgiac air about it. It has to do with the charms of the Green Monster and Pesky Pole, etc. But many of those friends HATE Fenway. They hate the enormous lines for the bathroom, the 10 inch wide seats that cost $150 a piece, and the two hundred person line for a beer. I promise you that if a totally new stadium built as a replica of Fenway was offered to Red Sox fans they would jump immediately. I'm sure whatever documentary you watched put the slant they wanted on it, but those fans want a modern park.

Dear EXPERT, the "documentary" was World News Tonight last night. Incredible that your friends hate Fenway but it continues to sell out. Must be a great situation to be in. Thanks for your invaluable input into the discussion.

**ghettopalmetto** · June-09-09, 04:02 PM

Originally Posted by GREENTROIT

@ Trumpeteer:

I have many, many friends in Boston [[I used to live there). And yes, Fenway has a nostalgiac air about it. It has to do with the charms of the Green Monster and Pesky Pole, etc. But many of those friends HATE Fenway. They hate the enormous lines for the bathroom, the 10 inch wide seats that cost $150 a piece, and the two hundred person line for a beer. I promise you that if a totally new stadium built as a replica of Fenway was offered to Red Sox fans they would jump immediately. I'm sure whatever documentary you watched put the slant they wanted on it, but those fans want a modern park.

You mean like the proposed "new" Fenway Park that was scuttled in 2005???
Yeah, Fenway sucks so bad that people pay $150 a seat to watch a ballgame.

Comerica Park has all the atmosphere of a suburban shopping mall food court. You pay $40 for a ticket, and even if you're six feet tall, all you can see is the back of the bald head in front of you. If you're in the upper deck, take an oxygen mask, climbing rope, and crampons [[just in case).

But hey! Comerica has a Ferris wheel! And cartoony tigers! And there's a great parking lot right next to the ballpark so you don't have to worry about the least bit of interaction with your surroundings.