Judge Rules Tiger Stadium Demolition Can Proceed

[GREENTROIT]

Can you really blame Ilitch for moving the team to an infinitely more comfortable stadium? I mean, the Yankees left Yankee Stadium and it will be demolished soon... Why should Tiger Stadium stand?

[kraig]

It is a sad day in Detroit, Bing is just perpetuating the cycle of corruption in the city. In a time of bought politicians it is so sad to see this cycle continue... I do not see the city telling Bing that his plans for the watermark condo's are no longer viable... And I do not see the EDC rushing to tear down the Brewster Projects which have most definitely added blight...

As a corktown resident and someone who sees the positive economic impact of the stadium even in its current form I must say it is senseless and frustrated by the negative impact this will now have on my community... No matter what they put there, it will never be what the residents of this area will be in agreement with... It makes little to no sense to do this, but makes even littler sense to be done without getting more input from the conservancy and the community. Poor planning and No Vision!

I brought up the Brewster Projects back in April when the Council was voting to tear down the MCD. What I got for my trouble was being accused of defending a billionaire. What people didn't realize was that the same methods that the City applies to trying to mess over someone with over a billion dollars is going to work a whole lot easier on a non-profit organization that doesn't have a billionaire's resources. This isn't an "I told you so" this is a warning, with Bing in office as a 4 1/2 year lame duck, regular people in this city are about to get screwed over in a big way.

[JMarx]

I'm not in "the know", but my suspicion is that when the other 75% of the stadium was demo'd last year, the city/demo company agreement probably had a clause where the demo company would give the city a break on the remainder of the demo if it was carried out by a certain date, and that might be why there was such a push to do it now.

That's just my conspiracy theory though... :-)

Sad to see her go...

[Ray1936]

Look, in 1999 the structural steel supporting the stands was turning rotten with rust and corrosion. To have rehabed it at that time would have cost nearly as much as a new ballpark anyway, so the moves that were made were practical and proper.

Besides, except for the memories, Tiger Stadium really was an ugly ballpark, especially since they put the orange seats in.

Get over it. It's history.

[DocTerry]

No, there are a number of us who don't/can't attend the citizen's district meetings who are glad to see this done. No, we've not been as vocal, and, in our own conversations, have opted to just let it play out, so we've not necessarily been heard. It would be interesting to get an accurate count of how many living in corktown wanted to see the museum plan move forward and how many wanted to see this wrapped up. Yes, I'm sure several of my "neighbors" on this board will be on the attack as a result of this posting, and I'm not going to get caught up in the emotional arguments flying around - just tired of hearing about what "everyone" wanted.

[detourdetroit]

ray, your post is dripping with subjectivity. ...says you.

[jackie5275]

Can you really blame Ilitch for moving the team to an infinitely more comfortable stadium?

How do you think Comerica Park is infinitely more comfortable?

[GREENTROIT]

How do you think Comerica Park is infinitely more comfortable?

Well for the fans, there are many more restrooms, concession stands, much more parking, better sight lines, more seating options, more food options, and arguably a better "fan experience" [[giant scoreboard, restaurants, kids rides).

And for the people that actually matter the park really is infinitely more comfortable. The clubhouse is way larger, has flat screen TVs, bigger lockers, better showers and restrooms, a full batting cage, every technical aid neccessary to stay competitive. These are real advantages in luring free agents and better players. The team's staff has comfortable and convenient offices inside the park, allowing them more efficient work. I promise you the announcers [[outside Harwell) would tell you their workspace is much more comfortable. It is in general a huge upgrade over Tiger Stadium... which is the reason the Tigers and countless other organizations have built new parks.

[ghettopalmetto]

Look, in 1999 the structural steel supporting the stands was turning rotten with rust and corrosion. To have rehabed it at that time would have cost nearly as much as a new ballpark anyway, so the moves that were made were practical and proper.

Besides, except for the memories, Tiger Stadium really was an ugly ballpark, especially since they put the orange seats in.

Get over it. It's history.

You're right, Ray. There's absolutely no economic benefit to be derived from a rehabbed structure that pays taxes and generates profits for tenants. </sarcasm>

Structural steel doesn't rot. It can be repaired. Where did you obtain your cost estimate for structural repairs vis-a-vis a new ballpark?

Everyone's a fucking engineer anymore, aren't they?

[Novine]

I'm sure that DocTerry will be the first to complain when Wal-Mart is proposed for the corner or when it's still a weed-strewn lot of garbage-littered parking lot 5 years from now. You've got your wish. Enjoy it.

[Retroit]

There is no way that Tiger Stadium would have been fully utilized without a Major League team playing there. It's removal should have been a precondition to the building of Comerica Park. I think the best we could hope for is to keep the actual ball field, put up some small aluminum bleachers, and have high-school or college teams play there.

Sad to see the old lady go, but the preservationists won't be lacking for other worthy opportunities.

[professorscott]

I have the same problem with the Tiger Stadium controversy that I had with the casino proposals many years ago: they are distracting us from our real problems. We have a high crime rate, high taxes, poor schools, nonexistent services, we are hemorrhaging people and have been for going on sixty years, we have tens of thousands [[perhaps a hundred thousand! Nobody knows) of abandoned buildings, and yet we have time to fight over this: the demolition of the remaining one-sixth or so of a building that's been abandoned for nearly a decade.

The location - near the even-longer-abandoned MCS, and surrounded by the cornucopia of expressways that represent the decisions made in our parents' generation that has left Detroit as it is - does not lend itself to any kind of visitor-facing use. I've never really understood how that location was ever supposed to become anything, with a fraction of a baseball stadium standing in a corner, reminding us of how things once were but no longer are.

I like to preserve things, but I like to preserve things that are in some sense likely to have future utility, and it is usually a person who buys such a thing that is in a position to determine that. If the old ballpark had any economic future utility that made any sense, somebody would've bought it and given it a try. To ask Detroit to take care of it is silly; Detroit can't even take care of things that absolutely have to be taken care of.

Tiger Stadium's fate is sad but it's a symptom of a larger disease, not the disease itself. We ought to focus on the disease.

[Campfire Girl]

Another Detroit tradition - pave paradise to put up a parking lot..............after a decade of weeds and junk accumulate

[urbanoutdoors]

Quote from Camilo Jose Vergara: The Tragedy is that Detroit has more of a downtown left to renew than other cities. Detroit just does not know what to do with this traditional fabric. Instead, piece by piece it demolishes itself and looks to big project plans- stadiums and gambling-to resuscitate its urban core.

[professorscott]

Indeed! More than many other cities, we believe in "superblocks" and we so disbelieve in transit that we require a downtown store owner to try to provide parking, so we end up with a hodgepodge of superblock developments, which destroy the fabric of true urban connectivity, and surface parking, which is even more grim.

I would prefer to see a hundred locally-owned single-storefront shops on Gratiot and Grand River, with the City actively supporting them, than a single megacasino development.

But the City loves big projects, and loves very little else.

[Fnemecek]

We have a high crime rate, high taxes, poor schools, nonexistent services, we are hemorrhaging people and have been for going on sixty years, we have tens of thousands [[perhaps a hundred thousand! Nobody knows) of abandoned buildings, and yet we have time to fight over this:

Yes, we all of those things. My question, however, is this: how does transforming Tiger Stadium into a vacant lot with overgrown weeds and uncollected trash do anything to solve any of those problems?

The location - near the even-longer-abandoned MCS, and surrounded by the cornucopia of expressways that represent the decisions made in our parents' generation that has left Detroit as it is - does not lend itself to any kind of visitor-facing use.

That's funny. I suspect that all of the people who visit the various bars, restaurants and other destinations near the former stadium would disagree with you that it's in a bad location.

Tiger Stadium's fate is sad but it's a symptom of a larger disease, not the disease itself. We ought to focus on the disease.

I agree, in part. The thing is, the disease in question is this belief in the minds of many that demolition somehow equals progress; that something good will come because a historic landmark was demolished.

Other cities around the United States and the rest of the world have learned that this is seldom true. Detroit, unfortunately, has been very slow in learning this important lesson.

[d&p]

Look, in 1999 the structural steel supporting the stands was turning rotten with rust and corrosion. To have rehabed it at that time would have cost nearly as much as a new ballpark anyway...

i'm finding it VERY hard to believe that. where did you get your information from?

[preserve]

In a year, I would guess that the corner will be vacant,
filled with trash, blight and no one will care, except those of us who live here and voted long ago on the
project that Zachary & Assoc. put together, under a
different mayor that somehow we foolishly thought had promise. I guess I'll never learn.

[Burnsie]

Ray1936, a hell of a lot of that rust, if not all of it, could have been eliminated with a simple sandblast/prime/paint. In fact, there was a lot of speculation that Monaghan and Illitch deliberately skimped on routine painting so that people would look at the rust and say, "Oh gee, looks like the stadium is falling apart."

So, I'm not necessarily stating that in the end it was viable to keep the stadium, but your distorted statements need to be rectified.

[econ expat]

So THAT'S where City of Omaha got the idea.
They're building a $120-140 mil stadium in their CBD.
Reason- the historical ball park on the edge of town is inadequate and
oh- yes- the steel supports are rusting and unsafe.

But its not condemned- still needed until the new stadium is built and opened,
then it will instantly be unsafe to set foot in the old ball park.

Deja vu

[Trumpeteer]

Watched a story on World News Tonight earlier this evening about Fenway Park and how they've done a masterful job marketing the park to fans not just in Mass. but surrounding states as well. The President of the ownership company [[can't recall the name) said that they don't want fans to come to Fenway for "comfort", "arcade games", or "extensive food choices", they want fans there to WATCH the game!! Fans interviewed love Fenway just like many of us loved Tiger Stadium. Built the same year as Tiger Stadium, 1912, Fenway's still going strong even though its seating is something over 33,000 having had 450+ SELLOUTS! The story told of the same "problems" that people complained about Tiger Stadium, i.e. cramped seating, small concourses, minimal food selection, poor clubhouse accomodations, seats behind columns, etc. Souinds familar??? They make it work. What the F--?

[jackie5275]

Watched a story on World News Tonight earlier this evening about Fenway Park and how they've done a masterful job marketing the park to fans not just in Mass. but surrounding states as well. The President of the ownership company [[can't recall the name) said that they don't want fans to come to Fenway for "comfort", "arcade games", or "extensive food choices", they want fans there to WATCH the game!! Fans interviewed love Fenway just like many of us loved Tiger Stadium. Built the same year as Tiger Stadium, 1912, Fenway's still going strong even though its seating is something over 33,000 having had 450+ SELLOUTS! The story told of the same "problems" that people complained about Tiger Stadium, i.e. cramped seating, small concourses, minimal food selection, poor clubhouse accomodations, seats behind columns, etc. Souinds familar??? They make it work. What the F--?

Greentroit-Please read this post. This is what is missing from Comerica Park. All these other comforts you say FANS want are just a distraction for those who really want to watch the game. At Comerica, it's like a party with a ballgame being played in the background. If you go to truly watch the game, it's bad seating & a bunch of other "clutter" going on around you.
As far as a better clubhouse for the players, I can't begrudge them for wanting a better one, but to say they are the ones that really matter is something I have to disagree with you about. The players need the fans to generate revenue. If you doubt this, ask the Yankees if they're concerned with attendance this season.

[jackie5275]

Ray1936, a hell of a lot of that rust, if not all of it, could have been eliminated with a simple sandblast/prime/paint. In fact, there was a lot of speculation that Monaghan and Illitch deliberately skimped on routine painting so that people would look at the rust and say, "Oh gee, looks like the stadium is falling apart."

You might be on to something Burnsie. Think about how buildings were constructed in the early part of the 20th century. They were built more sturdily & with better materials to give them longevity. IMO, there's no way that stadium would've rotted away from just neglect in only 20 yrs. I used to work near old Eloise. There were some pretty tough buildings that stood vacant for almost 30 yrs, but never started just falling down due to non use.

[buildingsofdetroit]

And as I pointed out in the Packard post, it's been vacant far longer, constantly catches on fire and spews toxic fumes into the air, and had more steel [[pre-scrappers at least) than Tiger Stadium, yet the city is in no rush to tear that down.

[buildingsofdetroit]

Photos from today up at www.buildingsofdetroit.com. Video of the broadcast booth getting torn into on our YouTube channel, www.youtube.com/user/BuildingsofDetroit. Got two videos up so far with a third uploading right now.