My citizen complaint against DPD

[corktownyuppie]

She didn't stop when they signaled, but kept going to the next intersection. I realize that she didn't understand [[I wouldn't either) but that's why they could interrogate her.

I'm pretty sure that any regulation that the police officer would have "to see" someone committing a crime is the very reason so many Detroiters are always complaining that the police "don't do anything" when residents know very well a crime has been committed or suspicious behavior is reported. Following your reasoning, if the police officer didn't actually see it happening, then nothing can be done.
So what do you want? I want more agressive policing.

I'm in favor of more aggressive policing, too. But there's a difference between hostile interrogation vs. illegal search. That's crossing a legal line, and I'm not ok with it.

The stop was legal. The harrassment and unpleasant questioning was legal. The search without permission? Totally out of line.

[Detroitnerd]

It's called "probable cause"

It's called "rousting"...

[antongast]

The police didn't take anything from her.

No, but it sounds like they seriously considered it, and easily could have, and I'm sure it's not that uncommon.

two, they wanted to confiscate my car [[a late model caddy), through drug forfeiture, which costs at least $900 to get back from the impound.

I'm all for the police doing their jobs, but when the remaining law-abiding residents of a high-crime neighborhood start talking about leaving, not because of the crime, but because the police are constantly harassing them while the crime continues all around them unabated, I'd say that's some egregiously incompetent police work.

[Pickford-Bentler]

For the record, I'm an elected person in this city, with no recent record, no tickets, no points. My boyfriend's family has lived in that neighborhood for 42 years, while watching it burn around them as the cops and cityhall looked on. Pirate hookers and trappers openly solicit from passer-bys while the police drive-by without a care, and have even been seen taking their opportunities with the hookers in the alleys behind the near-by party store. All the while the remaining residents, most of which are related or are too poor to move, have tried to make the best of it.

So I filed a complaint. It's not the fact that we got pulled over that upsets me. We are in a well-known dopehood and it is expected that at anytime we could get stopped. Since Godbee has taken over, my boyfriend has been stopped in the near proximity of his house several times, once when he had a small child in tow, and while mowing his lawn. He's asked the same question almost every time:"What are YOU doing over here?" He gets upset, but laughs it off. We know they're out here doing a dangerous job that they don't get paid enough for, which can really suck, and sometimes the people they stop are dangerous and mean. But to be treated so badly, and by the very people that not two weeks ago I was defending for calling off in protest to the proposed wage cuts. They were so aggressive and disrespectful, it was completely unnecessary and definitely an upsetting and eye-opening experience.

Let me get this straight. A guy who has family that lived on the street for 42 years and actually cuts the lawn is cause for suspicion?


If anything, he should get a medal.

[corktownyuppie]

No, but it sounds like they seriously considered it, and easily could have, and I'm sure it's not that uncommon.

I'm all for the police doing their jobs, but when the remaining law-abiding residents of a high-crime neighborhood start talking about leaving, not because of the crime, but because the police are constantly harassing them while the crime continues all around them unabated, I'd say that's some egregiously incompetent police work.

...and grabbing the driver of the car and frisking her is also against the law, unless she's under arrest.

I think that things are tipped in the favor of criminals, too, but behavior like this only makes it harder because you give legit ammunition to people complaining about civil rights violations.

Cops should aggressively walk right up to the line. But they went way over it on this one.

[Detroitnerd]

Legal advice from the Macho Law Enforcement Department

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWhI-c5xRfY

[bartock]

There are four other perspectives of this that I would be curious to know about.

[Anonymous]

http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/uscode/42/21/I/1983

I'ma just leave this here...

[JBMcB]

Legal advice from the Macho Law Enforcement Department

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWhI-c5xRfY

Brilliant! "Suspect was observed leaving a house and entering a vehicle... at that point we had reasonable cause a crime was being committed..."

I like how gunshots in 70's movies sound like bowling balls dropped into a vat of ball bearings.

[Gistok]

Maybe clock you upside your hey-add or bust a cap in you?

You know, it seems like nearly every post of yours you use some kind of silly "city speak".... it makes you come across as someone who has the only thing redder than a Wings Jersey.... the back of your neck...

[iheartthed]

I would consider legal action. The police need just cause to search a vehicle or a person.

Mere presence of a given skin color in a high crime neighborhood isn't just cause. It's profiling, and illegal.

You'd think. But residents of NYC have for years been challenging the NYPD's "stop and frisk" policy without much success.

[Lowell]

What's the difference between a criminal "accosting you and taking your shit" and the police doing it? It's not acceptable at all, regardless of who does it.

The difference = You can shoot back at the criminal.

Rogue police officers, who we must remember are a small minority of the force, cost their cities millions in law suits, damage community relations, and build distrust that ultimately endangers all police officers.

[firstandten]

It's called "probable cause"

How about lazy-ass policing

[detroitsgwenivere]

There are four otherperspectives of this that I would be curious to know about.

I knew that was coming. I could have the other two sign in and write two more epilogues, but I'll spare you all of that. The police dash cam caught everything, and that is all the testimony needed from the cops involved.

The legal council I spoke with says everything they did, except opening the car doors without permission to initiate the search, and the refusal to identify themselves or tell us why they stopped us, was "technically legal and subject to interpretation" according to the Supreme Court, thanks to the Patriot Act [[and the search done to me was a quick frisk for weapons, not full blown strip). But their procedure and demeanor is a violation of the department's own policy, not to mention the terms of settlement imposed by the DOJ. It will be a cold day in hell before any member of the police dept takes one of their own to task. Our city council, our Mayor's office, they have plenty of former law enforcement around to foster the ongoing “us vs. them” culture/mentality.That being, the police vs. the rest of us.

We would have complied without all of the theatrics. I don't have a problem with police doing their job. But since when is picking up someone from their home reasonable suspicion? And the neighborhood being a warzone? Half of Detroit is a warzone. Like I said, it's not the stop that is my issue. Or even the search, if they would have just treated us with the respect that they seem to demand. It's a bad area, I GET that [[Yes, John R/ I-75). But is that my boyfriend's fault? He LIVES there. WE live here, pay taxes, vote, volunteer patrol, clean up vacant lots and board up empty houses. I could have lost my property according to forfeiture law, which was also damaged by the way. We are good average Detroiters, and if this can happen to us, it can happen to you. That is the point.

And I'm willing to bet detroitjim and SWMAP that if your wife and children or Mother or Sister were treated with such disregard you would be singing a different tune. Being in a DMZ or not.

If Detroit wants new residents, wants to move forward, this issue has to be addressed. Not specifically my incident, but the relationship the police have with the community that they’re supposed to be protecting [[and the blatant use of a geographical area to raise funds for their gunshot locator). Had the NE police ever bothered to routinely patrol or talk with the neighbors instead of at them, they would know who belongs and who doesn't. It's not like we're the only white folks in that neighborhood for Christ's sake. And the overwhelming majority of our black and arab neighbors aren't involved with drugs and prostitutes either. They just gave up their pleading long ago and aren't about to do the police's job for them.

[softailrider]

I work in the city [[don't live there anymore) I really don't feel unsafe most of the time, no matter what area I'm in, except for the John R / 8 Mile / I-75 area. That's because the police in that area make me feel uneasy. In that particular area, along with Dexter - Joy Road,the police are very heavy -handed.

[Hermod]

Here is where the "cop mentality" interferes with "community policing".

Given that what they did was heavy-handed, once they found out the facts of the case and realized that the "stop" was unnecessary, they should have sincerely apologized, explained to D-Gen the reasons that she was suspected and how her actions in driving fit a pattern that aroused their suspicion. They should have told her to have a nice day and that they would pass the word at the station house that the address was a "good guy".

The "cop mentality" just can't recognize that when you are wrong and have inconvenienced someone, you apologize to them profusely. Apologizing and giving the reasons for your mistake do not show weakness.

[detroitjim]

You know, it seems like nearly every post of yours you use some kind of silly "city speak".... it makes you come across as someone who has the only thing redder than a Wings Jersey.... the back of your neck...

Like I previously posted , "the back of my neck is brown skin-did" YOU KNOW!!

[gazhekwe]

That you didn't stop right away is a red flag not just in Detroit. I was pulled over in the parking lot of Kewadin Casino in the Soo, by a tribal officer. I pulled ahead a few feet looking for a place that wouldn't be blocking an aisleway. The officer was all het up when I did stop and wanted to get tough about what I had taken the time to hide. I actually knew the guy's brother, worked with him out at Bay Mills when I was a court clerk. Whew, that little fact probably saved my Dad and me some trouble. Besides everybody around there knows my Dad. Had I been a visitor from someplace else, it looked like I would have gotten raked over the coals. I guess the lesson is, see the red and blue lights go on, pull right over where you are. Let the police worry about traffic issues.

[GoGrixdale]

...except for the John R / 8 Mile / I-75 area. That's because the police in that area make me feel uneasy. In that particular area, along with Dexter - Joy Road,the police are very heavy -handed.

..and yet we're still ravaged by crime over here.

One true sign of insanity is doing the same thing the same way and expecting different results. Something does't work with the way crime fighting happens here.

If they know that this area is infested with drug dealers and herpes hawkers ...why is this area infested with drug dealers and herpes hawkers?

[Occurrence]

It's sad and pathetic that some idiots here are defending the actions of these officers.

I strongly urge everyone to point their cameras at police officers whenever possible. I would look into legal action if I were you. In a perfect world you could try and sue them for a hefty settlement.

[evergreen]

Gang squad is a mess and has been for a long time. They need to do a much better job of screening candidates for that squad and removing those who lack the maturity and judgment to handle that authority. Too often, they act like a gang themselves. Very sorry about your experience. I know that every time I've ever been stopped [[and it's been very rare) it's been extremely nerve wracking. I don't think cops ever really appreciate how intimidating they can be to most citizens.

In spite of that I still believe the DPD makes a huge mistake in largely foregoing the use of decoys.

[fryar]

Sorry to hear that, Gwenivere.

I agree with Hermod. Some mild unprovoked harassment is one thing, but for them not to express some remorse and explain themselves afterwards is clearly lacking.

Damaging your door seems like it could have been avoided, at least if this had not played itself out in what may be a calamitous war zone.

[Ravine]

I think the entire incident stinks to High Heaven, but I agree with Gazhekwe about pulling over immediately; if the cops want you to proceed a bit further, they can tell you so.

Also, try to have your hands up where they can be easily seen by the officers as they approach your vehicle. You can always fish out your ID & stuff once they are up to your door.

There may be a need, in some instances, for "aggressive police work," but anyone with any sense can see that these officers handled that stop poorly, that they easily could have done better, and-- having failed in that way-- could have shown a little courtesy by apologizing.

Also, totally uncalled for, to fling the door open so carelessly as to damage it.

I try to not say things like this next statement, but anyone who sees no flaw in those officers' handling of that stop is a fuckin' idiot.

[Cincinnati_Kid]

It has been said that many of Detroit's woes are due - in no small part - to suburban dwellers coming into the City to commit crimes. Buying drugs is one crime mentioned, tagging is another. There are numerous examples of how outsiders have used the City as their playground/dumping ground.

Huge swaths of the eastside stand in mute testimony to how drugs and crime can scar a city. Many of those who buy the drugs are white folk from Greenback Heights and many of those folk drive nice late model cars.

I must admit when I see a Caddy in the Hood I think someone is up to no good. Smart folks who want to avoid conflict drive hoopties. That might just be me, but the thought of paying insurance for a nice car is beyond my ken.

The tough guy cop gets the Barney Phife award, he should also take a class in gentlemanly behavior. But I don't think he was pulling you over as much as all those other folks who have funded the destruction of the City.

I don't want to sound like I'm blaming you, rather all the other Caddy drivers who have helped spread the curse. Since you weren't beaten up I'm not sure what exactly you are complaining about. I get the guy was a jerk and he hurt your feelings ...

What you drive is illrelavent. Just because it was a Cadillac sounds stereotypical. Spread what curse? So driving a Caddy means you're up to no good? Sounds like a weak a- - excuse to me. You're more apt to getting stopped driving a "Hooptie" in the hood, then a nice car, from my experience.

[NorthofNormal]

try to have your hands up where they can be easily seen by the officers

Reminds me of the one time I got to see the gang squad brain trust do their thing. A carful of young men was pulled over outside my apartment [[midtown, if it matters) and was quickly surrounded by 5-6 cop cars. The police surounded the car, all of them pointing guns at the car.

Cop on the passeger side yells, "GET OUT OF THE CAR!"

So the driver, who had his hands up in the air, lowers his left hand to open the door...and a cop on the drivier's side of the car yells, "KEEP YOUR HANDS WHERE I CAN SEE THEM."

Driver puts his hands back up--and passenger side cop yells, "GET OUT OF THE CAR."

Driver tries to open door, and the other cop yells, "KEEP YOUR HAND WHERE I CAN SEE THEM."

Lather, rinse, repeat, about five times, tension clearly ratcheting up on everyone's part, until the cops sort themselves out. If I weren't honestly worried that bullets were going to start flying, it would have been funny. For all I know, those guys in the car were the four most wanted scuzzbuckets in the city--but from my point of view, the cops' showboating and lack of coordination were escalating the situation. The young men in the car all cooperated, or tried to, throughout the entire scene I saw.