Saturday Night Shooting near Royal Oak YMCA

[bartock]

It is common sense. Funny how it is described as "conforming to suburban living".

[Eric_c]

It is common sense. Funny how it is described as "conforming to suburban living".

I suppose it *is* common sense to those of us who grew up viewing it as common.

Somebody back in 1956 dropped the ball. Instead of moving away when the new neighbors from Alabama parked on the lawn or BBQd on the front porch, they should have politely corrected them, right? Or, since it's not their business, they could have just called the cops. Over. And over. And over.

Growing up, one of my father's friends said that Detroit was basically a town full of farmers. A bulk of the population up here stems from the rural south and the culture has had a real hard time assimilating with that of northern urbanites. Add race to it and it turns into a tragic comedy.

[antongast]

I suppose it *is* common sense to those of us who grew up viewing it as common.

Somebody back in 1956 dropped the ball. Instead of moving away when the new neighbors from Alabama parked on the lawn or BBQd on the front porch, they should have politely corrected them, right? Or, since it's not their business, they could have just called the cops. Over. And over. And over.

Growing up, one of my father's friends said that Detroit was basically a town full of farmers. A bulk of the population up here stems from the rural south and the culture has had a real hard time assimilating with that of northern urbanites. Add race to it and it turns into a tragic comedy.

I don't get *why* it's common sense. I mean, not making noise outside late at night if nobody else is, okay, that's common courtesy, I guess, but the other stuff? Who the hell cares if somebody down the street wants to grill on their porch? They paid for the house, didn't they? Or do property rights only apply to People Exactly Like Us?

[Meddle]

Wait, ..... Royal Oak has 'wave upon wave of cruisers' ?

I don't get *why* it's common sense. I mean, not making noise outside late at night if nobody else is, okay, that's common courtesy, I guess, but the other stuff? Who the hell cares if somebody down the street wants to grill on their porch? They paid for the house, didn't they? Or do property rights only apply to People Exactly Like Us?

It is not common sense, nor civilized to grille on one's front porch. You do that in the back yard whether you paid for the house or not or what you look like or where you came from.

Hell, I live out in the country on nearly 10 acres with no neighbors in sight and I don't grill on the front porch.

[antongast]

It is not common sense, nor civilized to grille on one's front porch. You do that in the back yard whether you paid for the house or not or what you look like or where you came from.

Okay, that's your personal opinion, but why is everyone else required to share it? Doesn't this fall under Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness?

[lapdawg]

Where are you at that you see wave upon wave of cruisers? the most i have seen in one place was when RO and MH were pulling me over. there were five of them but thats back in '90 and that was the border of two cities. i haven't been there in a while, but i still have contacts back there.

[corktownyuppie]

I don't get *why* it's common sense. I mean, not making noise outside late at night if nobody else is, okay, that's common courtesy, I guess, but the other stuff? Who the hell cares if somebody down the street wants to grill on their porch? They paid for the house, didn't they? Or do property rights only apply to People Exactly Like Us?

Look, what we have here is very common and not just an issue of "Detroiters encroaching into the suburbs". It's the cultural clash that naturally occurs when peoples of different backgrounds, socio-economic roots, or any other demographic including age, religion, etc. come into contact with each other.

I experienced this a lot growing up because my parents were foreign, and I was a 1st gen American. They were fresh off the boat. And my family would regulary do things that were "weird" or "strange" by the social norms of my neighborhood on Detroit's eastside...then they eventually assimilated. That was 30+ years ago, and now when I tell my friends the stories of what my parents were like growing up they laugh at the incredulity of the stories.

So, yes, it doesn't surprise me as culture shock if you're moving from the Denby district to the posh lawns of Troy. No more than if you're a 3-generation kid from the Bronx moving into Sweet Home Alabama. Or if you're the old professor moving into the neighborhood of 19-year-old college students.

Of course, there's resentment on both sides, but like it or not, the people moving in will likely be the ones feeling the most pressure to change. And they will, if they want to stay in the neighborhood.

[antongast]

Look, what we have here is very common and not just an issue of "Detroiters encroaching into the suburbs". It's the cultural clash that naturally occurs when peoples of different backgrounds, socio-economic roots, or any other demographic including age, religion, etc. come into contact with each other.

I experienced this a lot growing up because my parents were foreign, and I was a 1st gen American. They were fresh off the boat. And my family would regulary do things that were "weird" or "strange" by the social norms of my neighborhood on Detroit's eastside...then they eventually assimilated. That was 30+ years ago, and now when I tell my friends the stories of what my parents were like growing up they laugh at the incredulity of the stories.

So, yes, it doesn't surprise me as culture shock if you're moving from the Denby district to the posh lawns of Troy. No more than if you're a 3-generation kid from the Bronx moving into Sweet Home Alabama. Or if you're the old professor moving into the neighborhood of 19-year-old college students.

Of course, there's resentment on both sides, but like it or not, the people moving in will likely be the ones feeling the most pressure to change. And they will, if they want to stay in the neighborhood.

I pretty much agree with this. I was responding to the implication voiced by several posters that every single human being on the face of the earth should come out of the womb knowing not to do these things unless there's something egregiously wrong with them, which I think is horseshit.

Grilling on the front porch seems to me like a good way to enjoy delicious food, watch the comings and goings of the neighborhood, and casually interact with your neighbors. It's a dynamic akin to the Jane Jacobs "street ballet," and probably helps keep the neighborhood safer. Anyway, I can't see how it would possibly harm anyone, and I wouldn't mind at all if some of my neighbors decided to do it regularly. I might even get my own grill and join in.

Now, if you live in a neighborhood where all or most of your neighbors have a serious problem with your grilling parties, it might be advisable for you to stop doing it or move somewhere else, just because it's generally not much fun to live in a place where all your neighbors are continually angry at you. But if someone decides that they care more about grilling on their porch than about their relationships with their neighbors, I still don't see anything wrong with it.

[bartock]

I pretty much agree with this. I was responding to the implication voiced by several posters that every single human being on the face of the earth should come out of the womb knowing not to do these things unless there's something egregiously wrong with them, which I think is horseshit.

Grilling on the front porch seems to me like a good way to enjoy delicious food, watch the comings and goings of the neighborhood, and casually interact with your neighbors. It's a dynamic akin to the Jane Jacobs "street ballet," and probably helps keep the neighborhood safer. Anyway, I can't see how it would possibly harm anyone, and I wouldn't mind at all if some of my neighbors decided to do it regularly. I might even get my own grill and join in.

Now, if you live in a neighborhood where all or most of your neighbors have a serious problem with your grilling parties, it might be advisable for you to stop doing it or move somewhere else, just because it's generally not much fun to live in a place where all your neighbors are continually angry at you. But if someone decides that they care more about grilling on their porch than about their relationships with their neighbors, I still don't see anything wrong with it.

Only one person mentioned grilling on the front porch. The several other posters were referring to the statement about cutting the grass and taking the party inside after midnight.