Moving to Detroit from Sweden; any advice?

[Parkguy]

My house in Rosedale Park has a walkscore of 66, which is pretty decent. The neighborhood as a whole has a walkscore of 60. North Rosedale: 66. What we need more of: bistro-style cafes and coffeehouses.

[EastsideAl]

I have no idea where our original poster should live, since so much depends on personal circumstances. Although I'd recommend Lafayette Park, the southern end of Indian Village/West Village or Jefferson apartments, Grosse Pointe Park, or the northern part of Midtown around Wayne & Cultural Center.

But you really need to come here yourself to see what you'd feel comfortable with. As many here have said, this is not really a place comparable to any European city, and it is probably quite different from any city you've ever been to.

[[Edit: took out a bunch of stuff that wouldn't be helpful to the original poster that I wrote in response to the insulting nasty crap of the "oh, you can't have children in the city!" crowd. Suffice to say that I, and pretty much all of my relatives, including some who are currently still children, were raised in the city and survived - even had reasonably successful adulthoods. Which would be a miracle, I guess, if there weren't thousands of others like us.)

[ndavies]

The Original poster is moving his family to the other side of the world. He is already taking on a huge amount of risk. The man is expecting a European city. Detroit is nowhere near functional enough to come close to his expectations. The inner ring suburbs are the closest thing the metro region has to what he's looking for.

If he were coming alone I would wish him the best of luck with his choices. Bringing his family in is a completely different story. There is a reason 99% of the hipster move out of the city as soon as they have kids. They all come in with the best of intentions and then the day to day aggravation takes it's toll. They move back to the suburbs they came from.

As someone who has made a similar move from Europe, I came from the UK, I know he's going to find Detroit severely lacking in the things he needs. What happens if he moves his family to the city and they find they are not safe here. How long do you think he will remain in the country, let alone the city?

[davewindsor]

The Original poster is moving his family to the other side of the world. He is already taking on a huge amount of risk. The man is expecting a European city. Detroit is nowhere near functional enough to come close to his expectations. The inner ring suburbs are the closest thing the metro region has to what he's looking for.

If he were coming alone I would wish him the best of luck with his choices. Bringing his family in is a completely different story. There is a reason 99% of the hipster move out of the city as soon as they have kids. They all come in with the best of intentions and then the day to day aggravation takes it's toll. They move back to the suburbs they came from.

As someone who has made a similar move from Europe, I came from the UK, I know he's going to find Detroit severely lacking in the things he needs. What happens if he moves his family to the city and they find they are not safe here. How long do you think he will remain in the country, let alone the city?

Well, I'm sure glad that the engineering company that's offering these high paying jobs and recruiting him had enough faith in the city to open up shop in downtown instead of Troy.

And, I'm sure that a better paying job had a lot to do with his decision to move to another country. I don't know if hipsters are in the same category, i.e, making the kind of money that would motivate someone to move to another country, and that might play a role in why hipsters don't stick around in the city. There is a reward to the risk and I'm sure he's figured that out or he wouldn't be leaving his home country with his family.

[jolla]

Living in Detroit with children and biking and walking is possible. What's not possible in my opinion is the public school in Detroit.

[Det_ard]

Living in Detroit with children and biking and walking is possible. What's not possible in my opinion is the public school in Detroit.

Disagree. There's a relatively small group of families living and public-schooling in Detroit that know which few schools are the good ones, on par with the better suburban schools. Those schools are good because the self-selection process ensures that 95% of the parents are doing what they should do with respect to educating their kids. They're doing it, it's possible, you just have to hook into the educationally-minded Detroiter network and you'll figure out how it can be done. Unfortunately the vast masses are still stuck with their not-so-good to downright terrible neighborhood schools.

Who knows what kind of urbanity the OP expects or what he already knows of Detroit. That's a big variable. My advice:

• visit Detroit and suburbs, tour potential areas and talk to residents
• rent for a year in your area of choice
• consider buying if it's working for you, or relocate if not.

You can do the urban family thing in Detroit but it's very different from other major cities, in ways good and bad. It's an individual decision as to if it works for you.

[Zeyrek]

Thank you everyone for your kind replies to my post. I really did not expect so many replies and appreciate the information. Some of the neighborhoods you mention seem interesting or nice [[Lafayette park and Indian village), and i sense many people on this forum have true pride for their city. However, some of the warnings about detroit were alarming after doing some Internet research I must say that I feel naive for thinking a move there with little culture shock.

For example, I read that brush park was an historic neighborhood close to downtown, but then I see that much of it has been torn down or is in ruins like Athens or Rome. I also saw "a tour of Detroit's ghetto" on YouTube and could not believe it. Is most of the city like this? How is this possible in the united states?

I am still interested in what the city has to offer [[i am impressed by the people who have responded here) and am hoping to find the right fit since I have a good job opportunity and would love the chance to live in the States for several years, but only on the right terms. Am I being naive or are things really as bad as some make them out to be?

Thank you.
Zeyrek

[animatedmartian]

I am still interested in what the city has to offer [[i am impressed by the people who have responded here) and am hoping to find the right fit since I have a good job opportunity and would love the chance to live in the States for several years, but only on the right terms. Am I being naive or are things really as bad as some make them out to be?

Thank you.
Zeyrek

I'd say it's not as bad as they say for all of Detroit. There are parts of the city where you can live comfortably with no problem. And yes there are parts that basically that look like bombed out ghettos. Both exist in Detroit but the "bombed out" areas IMO are places that you'd never actually have to go to, let alone would want to live in anyway [[especially for an immigrant). So in essence, you'll be living in a very multifaceted city.

People only judge Detroit by it's worst and hardly look at it's best only until they actually live in the city. Though, I admit, it's probably waaaaaay easier to look at other major US cities and not have this much of a problem trying to figure the place out.

There are plenty of websites that show the better areas of Detroit and what the city has to offer. Here's one that'll probably be a particularly helpful start: http://www.modeldmedia.com/

So for you, I'd suggest finding out as many positive stories about Detroit as you can but also keeping in mind that the city has its fair share of problems, and is strikingly different than what you'd expect [[for better or worse).

Also keep in mind that many other major urban US cities will all be different from Swedish cities but will have some attributes similar to Detroit [[basically that Americanized factor). I'm not sure if you mentioned about having been to other parts of the US. But all in all, I hope you learn a lot and come to a decision that you'll be satisfied with. Good luck!

[epiphany]

Thank you everyone for your kind replies to my post. I really did not expect so many replies and appreciate the information. Some of the neighborhoods you mention seem interesting or nice [[Lafayette park and Indian village), and i sense many people on this forum have true pride for their city. However, some of the warnings about detroit were alarming after doing some Internet research I must say that I feel naive for thinking a move there with little culture shock.

For example, I read that brush park was an historic neighborhood close to downtown, but then I see that much of it has been torn down or is in ruins like Athens or Rome. I also saw "a tour of Detroit's ghetto" on YouTube and could not believe it. Is most of the city like this? How is this possible in the united states?

I am still interested in what the city has to offer [[i am impressed by the people who have responded here) and am hoping to find the right fit since I have a good job opportunity and would love the chance to live in the States for several years, but only on the right terms. Am I being naive or are things really as bad as some make them out to be?

Thank you.
Zeyrek

The pro-Detroit people on this forum will tell you that most of the city is not like what you see in youtube videos, but they aren't being totally honest. There are pocket neighborhoods that are nice, but even they are high-crime and surrounded by ruin. Downtown does have many cultural attractions, but it also lacks in many of the amenities found in a normal big city. I think that you might be disappointed, frankly.

I moved here with the same naivety because of people on the internet that told me that Detroit was some sort of great, walkable city with reliable public transportation. I don't have a car, and this has caused me immense suffering, especially during the winter.

Crime is very, very high. The majority of Detroit [[outside of the area surrounding WSU and Downtown) is in ruins. The area around WSU is targeted by criminals. The house that I was living in just got broken into within a matter of months. The heating system, a/c, piping, etc. has already been ripped out because we were unable to check on it for a short period of time... and this was in Warrendale, a neighborhood that people try to say is "good" compared to others. Even crime in the "good" neighborhoods is only good by Detroit standards. PLEASE proceed with caution. Know what you are getting yourself into. Don't believe the misinformation spread by people with rose-colored glasses. It's great to love your city and want it to succeed, but we still have many problems.

[animatedmartian]

The pro-Detroit people on this forum will tell you that most of the city is not like what you see in youtube videos, but they aren't being totally honest. There are pocket neighborhoods that are nice, but even they are high-crime and surrounded by ruin.

I can view this as a glass-half-full situation.

I moved here with the same naivety because of people on the internet that told me that Detroit was some sort of great, walkable city with reliable public transportation. I don't have a car, and this has caused me immense suffering, especially during the winter.

Don't know when or where that was said, but that's obviously not an accurate description of the entire city. I don't fault you for not doing research though.

...and this was in Warrendale, a neighborhood that people try to say is "good" compared to others.

Well there's your problem. OP won't be moving to Warrendale. More than likely he'll be moving Downtown. If he wants to live close to where he works, why the hell would he move to Warrendale? Is a magical unicorn going to pick him up? He stated that he wanted to be at least reasonable biking distance from where he'll be working. Yea lemme just take a poll on how many people in Detroit bike 10 Miles to work everyday. I wanna meet these people and find out how we all can be like them.

Don't believe the misinformation spread by people with rose-colored glasses.

I question whether or not your glasses are fogged or only looking at the thorns. There's more misinformation coming from one-sided opinions from no fault of the entire city.

Your environment doesn't fit your needs but your entire environment is not Detroit. It's Warrendale. If Warrendale doesn't fit your needs, move to another part of town whether it be Detroit or some other city. If you can't move then work with whatcha got and buy something that'll help you get around better, whether it be a bike or a car. If you can't do that and can't depend on the bus, well then you have a valid point in saying that Warrendale is not the appropriate area for OP to look in to. But Warrendale is not representative of all of Detroit. And any person who says any one neighborhood ​is representative of all of Detroit is being misleading, and their opinion should only reflect that neighborhood and those listening should take it as such.

I'll now return to my unrealistic world view where unicorns roam the sky...

[gazhekwe]

Speaking of traffic, I do live in Oakland County, just two miles north of Detroit. I just spent a week in Boston/Cambridge, and guess what? We have no idea what traffic is here in SE Michigan. Really, we don't. On Saturday afternoon in Cambridge, traffic was wall to wall as far as I could see both up and down the road. It was moving, just barely. It took 25 minutes to go three miles from Cambridge to Medford. Turning left into or out of a side street took at least three minutes waiting for a break, and then we got out because some nice people let us get through the stream of traffic. If we ever have traffic like that around here, something is wrong somewhere, an accident, lights screwed up or some other blockage.

[mwilbert]

By Boston standards, metro Detroit has no traffic.

[ColonelMack]

Zeyrek,
I am not sure you understand the scale of our area. If top priority is biking to work you need to start with locales around your workplace. From one side of our metro area [[including suburbs) to the other can be as long as an hour-and-a-half in a car. It is highly impractical to choose a neighborhood based on amenities, if it is too far from your workplace to bike, which appears to be a primary goal of yours. I will also note, it is difficult if not impossible to bike in the winter. We get decent amount of snow, and it will remain cold for extended periods of time, so the snow pushed on the side of the road gets slushy then icy. Stockholm is far north like Detroit, but it's winter climate is moderated by the seas surrounding it, you will find Detroit Winters much more difficult to navigate.
Also please note, no matter how politically incorrect it may be to state this, Detroit Schools are generally sub-par, and as a parent I warn you that your children will have a very difficult time, and probably not learn as they should in most city schools. In the US the schools are generally controlled by the local cities, and vary in quality from city to city. Do some research to make sure you find a district that is good for your children. No amount of cool urban vibe can make up for your children not receiving a good educations.
Many on this board are more interested in pushing their agenda of urban living than listening to your question and advising you on your specific issue [[nothing wrong with that, that is what this board is about, but there is also nothing wrong with me pointing that out, and advising him with what I believe is info relative to his situation)

[mwilbert]

There's a relatively small group of families living and public-schooling in Detroit that know which few schools are the good ones, on par with the better suburban schools. Those schools are good because the self-selection process ensures that 95% of the parents are doing what they should do with respect to educating their kids. They're doing it, it's possible, you just have to hook into the educationally-minded Detroiter network and you'll figure out how it can be done.

Might it not be somewhat difficult for someone to come from another country and hook into this network that the vast majority of people in Detroit seem not to be part of? I know there are pockets of functionality within the morass of the DPS, but it might be asking a lot of a newcomer to find them and get his children enrolled in them. Anyway, perhaps that will work for him, and there are certainly other school options for people living in the city as well.

[boneshaker]

This tread is actually quite tragic. We have a good intended person wishing to live in the City of Detroit who happens to be clueless of the current situation here.This reminds me of my childhood friend from the east side of Detroit who married an Australian woman in 1970 and didnt return to Detroit until 2010. When I asked my friend if he was going to rent a car during his stay, he responded.. "oh we'll just ride the bus to get around"...... obviously the bus system in 1970 is quite different than in 2010. My friend, got a quick update in the D 2010 style.... Much to his dismay he left a broken man....

[Jason]

Lafayette Park is close to downtown, family friendly, and your kids can go to good public schools. It's within walking distance to Greektown, which is a restraunt district, and where there is also a People Mover [[a short loop of elevated rail) station which would take you further downtown. But even though it's within walking distance the walk won't be as pleasant as you'd hope. Most of your walk would be parking lots/garages, and a freeway overpass [[and maybe a homeless guy). Once you get past that, downtown is more pedestrian friendly but there still isn't a strong pedestrian culture downtown, although it's improving.

Midtown has a stronger pedestrian culture, and you could walk to cafes and some stores. You would also be able to walk to a lot of cultural institutions and events. The area you would be living in is mostly inhabited by college students, and even though it's safe in general, I don't think you would want to let your kids go outside alone.

Indian Village is farther away from downtown but you could still bike there. The houses are nice. But there aren't school situation is difficult there. I think families there have to drive their kids to different neighborhoods to go to ok schools. There's also nowhere to walk to.

Palmer Woods is basically a lesser version of Oakland County, except within Detroit and a little closer to downtown.

Oakland County has very good schools and is safe. But it's very suburban. Scattered throughout the county are "downtowns", but they are token downtowns that are there either so that old people can have a "quaint" and "traditional" setting for their boutique shops, or so that there can be an "urban" area for college kids to have bars and clubs. But even though they look urban they don't function urban in any meaningful way. Oakland County can be a very nice place to live but it doesn't match the lifestyle you're describing at all.


So I would recommend looking into Lafayette Park. It will be a downgrade from Stockholm, but Stockholm is such a nice city and Sweden has such a high quality of life that moving almost anywhere else in the world would be a downgrade.

[Detroit_uke]

Welcome! Moving from one city to the next is hard...I can't imagine moving to another country. There is a Swedish Club of Metro Detroit. I just found it on the web. Missed their fried herring dinner...gosh darn. They may be able to help...I'm sure many are "transplants" themselves. Good luck to you!

[GoGrixdale]

How much you are willing to assimilate, tolerate or work to change is key.

If you’re not comfortable with a range of ethnic dynamics and socioeconomic situations be honest with yourself and let that weigh heaviest in your decision-making. There's a lot of culture and economic disparity here that is decidedly not European.

Right or wrong that will decide your happiness in Detroit, SE Mich or the USA.

[Dexlin]

How much you are willing to assimilate, tolerate or work to change is key.

If you’re not comfortable with a range of ethnic dynamics and socioeconomic situations be honest with yourself and let that weigh heaviest in your decision-making. There's a lot of culture and economic disparity here that is decidedly not European.

Right or wrong that will decide your happiness in Detroit, SE Mich or the USA.

I think this is the best piece of advice in the thread, and is kind of what most of us are getting at.

I've said it before, but the only thing worse than someone actively shunning Detroit is the naive Detroiter who is met with the most unpleasant surprises and this is scared for life and becomes a Detroit hater. Just as you don't thrown a baby into the deep end of the pool to teach it to swim, you don't mindlessly advocate for throwing some foreigner not just into America, but America's most culturally, socially, and economically dysfunctional major city. That's probably even more irresponsible than asking that they not even consider the place, which, BTW, is not something I'm seeing most people doing in this thread. I see people that genuinely want to make sure that this Swede looks hard before he leaps. If even many Americans -- and even many people within the immediate area -- are culturally shocked by the state of the city why wouldn't we want to educate someone from a nation with as high a living standard as Sweden about the strengths and major weaknesses of a place like Detroit? I love this city, but it's not even a normally functioning city by American standards.

[ASR89]

What about Hamtramck?

[mwilbert]

What about Hamtramck?

I considered mentioning Hamtramck, but I know nothing about the schools. Otherwise it would seem like a possible option.

[mwilbert]

What do you mean everything will be done in the suburbs? I don't do anything in the suburbs except visit my elderly family.

I suspect he meant that if he lived in the city, he would still do everything in the suburbs.

[laphoque]

I suspect he meant that if he lived in the city, he would still do everything in the suburbs.

Oh well, no. No that is not the case. At least for me. And most everyone I know who isn't in college and going home on the weekends to raid their parents fridge. And it's not the case for the parents I know here. I can't see somebody moving here who doesn't know the suburbs deciding to go there to do things.

[laphoque]

BTW's the Ikea is in Canton about a thirty minute drive but completely inaccessible by bus due to our regressive transit system.

[Jason]

Ikeas aren't particularly well regarded in Sweden.