Moving to Detroit from Sweden; any advice?

[j to the jeremy]

I thought English's comment and Lowell's comments were both spot on.

And damn, I'm glad I didn't ask for advice on here before I moved to Detroit.

[epiphany]

I thought English's comment and Lowell's comments were both spot on.

And damn, I'm glad I didn't ask for advice on here before I moved to Detroit.

Yeah, cause I am just lying about everything and nothing bad has ever happened to me. My experience is TOTALLY irrelevant. I wish that I would have NOT taken advice from people in this forum because they lie to preserve whatever fairytale they have about Detroit.

[Richard]

You could take this whole thread and apply it to any city in the world and have the same results.

[epiphany]

You could take this whole thread and apply it to any city in the world and have the same results.

That is not true. I have lived in other cities and Detroit is by far my worst experience. That seems to be a common argument for people that have never left the state of Michigan. And it sure as hell doesn't apply to the rest of the world outside of the US.

[antongast]

That is not true. I have lived in other cities and Detroit is by far my worst experience. That seems to be a common argument for people that have never left the state of Michigan. And it sure as hell doesn't apply to the rest of the world outside of the US.

Going by most of Richard's posts, I'm not sure he's ever been to the state of Michigan.

[j to the jeremy]

Yeah, cause I am just lying about everything and nothing bad has ever happened to me. My experience is TOTALLY irrelevant. I wish that I would have NOT taken advice from people in this forum because they lie to preserve whatever fairytale they have about Detroit.

I wasn't talking to or about you. I also didn't read the 5 pages of bickering before their posts.

[epiphany]

Going by most of Richard's posts, I'm not sure he's ever been to the state of Michigan.

Well, that explains why he would think that Detroit is like every other city. Perhaps people shouldn't talk about something when they know nothing about it.

[epiphany]

I wasn't talking to or about you. I also didn't read the 5 pages of bickering before their posts.

Well, you were agreeing with a comment that was a response to mine, so that's close enough.

Does it really matter who you were talking to or responding to? I mean, English basically said that I am not allowed to say that Detroit has problems without being secretly racist. Do you really believe that? Am I seriously not allowed to comment on my personal experiences if I have the wrong skin color?

[epiphany]

What do I have to do to validate my personal experiences? PLEASE enlighten me.

[buzzman0077]

I think we can all accept that you have had a bad expierience in the city. That doesn't mean that everyone has, will, or should expect to. Why must we be labled polly-anna's or homers just because we haven't had problems. We have offered our expieriences as a counter to your's. I have not had any problems in Detroit. I was the victim of property crime twice while living in a good area of Kansas City. These problems are not Detroit's alone. Lowell made a good point in that Detroit has islands that are good, and if you know how to navigate between the islands you are less likely to have problems.

[Richard]

Going by most of Richard's posts, I'm not sure he's ever been to the state of Michigan.

Actually if you have even read my posts I have made it clear several times that I have never been to Detroit and if you have read my posts you would know why I am here. So you will have to do better then that . Next.

[313WX]

Epiphany, I for one completely understand where your coming from, I'm black BTW [[not it matters, it's just for the record).

Fact of the matter is Detroit has real problems. We can't just shove them under a rug as if they don't exist. It has nothing to do with Detroiters being less human than anyone else, it's silly for anyone to even insinuate that.

However, what people do want at the very least is a basic quality of life, where the police, fire and ambulance shos up on time, where the bulk trucks come out and pick up the trash in a timely fashion, where you can walk to a neighborhood park without worrying about overgrown grass or trash littered everywhere, a school where the children can learn basic Math and English without having to deal with other children ruining their experience because they come from broken homes, streets and neighborhoods that aren't filled with either abandoned/dangerous structures or corn fields as if you live in the country, and easy access to basic items without making a special trip to the suburbs or to the other side of town. Detroit doesn't have any of that. Now perhaps some try not to think about that type of stuff and will overlook it in their daily routine, and that's fine as people do tend to adapt to changes [[or they're in denial, as I can name a couple people off the bat, not from this forum, who I feel are).

But the fact of the matter too is until the above programs are corrected, it's going to be difficult to convince people that Detroit is a good place to live. The catch-22 is while we need taxpayers, and not just people who have no formal commitment to the city inside a leased high-rise condo or rented apartment in the city center, but middle-class home owners, to help us repair these problems and will formally investing their money and time in the city, these middle-class homeowners will never put up with all the problems Detroit faces for the CHANCE that it will become a functioning city again.

Also, it is completely false to say that other cities are like Detroit. It's true that other cities face the same problems that Detroit faces, but they don't anywhere near to the extent Detroit does. For example, no other city faces the vicious wealth and race inequality that Detroit faces [[name another city that has a record number of people living below poverty tht's surrounded by some of the wealthiest suburbs in the country, if not world, or even vice-versa). No other city has an non-functioning transit system. No other city has lost half of their population at the rate Detroit has, and their entire middle class tax base. Detroit's problems are not just fundamental, but structural. To correct a structural problem, that means people from all sides will have to make sacrifices they're not comfortable with. Since the people in question won't be comfortable with these changes, they'll never be made.The "good" neighborhoods in other cities don't have homes selling for under $100,000. The "good" neighborhoods in other cities have plenty of retail options, etc.

[Richard]

Well, that explains why he would think that Detroit is like every other city. Perhaps people shouldn't talk about something when they know nothing about it.

So name one city anywhere that everything is peachy ,every city big and small has its good areas bad areas and in-between areas,inner cities are more prone to higher crime,more frequent burglaries,car theft etc. That is why you have the option of suburbs or relocation you move to where you feel the safest. And if you think as a woman you can go to any other city then Detroit and walk down the street without men looking at you or treating you "as a piece of meat" then you have not been around much.

If I know nothing about something I educate myself unbiased so I can learn and not pass judgement because of one persons or media statements. Sorry but I have also been burglarized .had my trucks stolen and yes even an entire vintage house full of contents removed while out of town and guess what it was not in Detroit. Shocking huh

[Dexlin]

Seriously, fuck that comment.

You know what? Grow the f%ck up. You've done nothing but huff-and-puff around this thread as if your's is the only opinion that matters, or as if your opinion is God-delivered fact. Your sad attempt to bully to get your point across is rude and immature, and you'd best take a breath and back off if you can't find a better way to represent yourself and say your piece, okay? You went from offering many valid opinions to stomping around here as if you are the sole Speaker for Detroit. You have your opinion. You have an opinion. If you don't mind, let everyone else have there's for once in your miserable life.

[epiphany]

You know what? Grow the f%ck up. You've done nothing but huff-and-puff around this thread as if your's is the only opinion that matters, or as if your opinion is God-delivered fact. Your sad attempt to bully to get your point across is rude and immature, and you'd best take a breath and back off if you can't find a better way to represent yourself and say your piece, okay? You went from offering many valid opinions to stomping around here as if you are the sole Speaker for Detroit. You have your opinion. You have an opinion. If you don't mind, let everyone else have there's for once in your miserable life.

Why don't you tell English that her comments are rude and immature? My response was to her immediate assumption that I am racist just because I recognize that Detroit is not a functioning city. Where else can you live and call an ambulance and have to wait nearly an HOUR for the ambulance to pick up a dead body off of the street? When I was living in a nice neighborhood, I was driven out of my home because the neighbor kept threatening to bash in my brains. I can tell you with absolute certainty that these things do not happen in other cities unless you are in a really bad neighborhood... but it happens in the best neighborhoods here.

[epiphany]

Epiphany, I for one completely understand where your coming from, I'm black BTW [[not it matters, it's just for the record).

Fact of the matter is Detroit has real problems. We can't just shove them under a rug as if they don't exist. It has nothing to do with Detroiters being less human than anyone else, it's silly for anyone to even insinuate that.

However, what people do want at the very least is a basic quality of life, where the police, fire and ambulance shos up on time, where the bulk trucks come out and pick up the trash in a timely fashion, where you can walk to a neighborhood park without worrying about overgrown grass or trash littered everywhere, a school where the children can learn basic Math and English without having to deal with other children ruining their experience because they come from broken homes, streets and neighborhoods that aren't filled with either abandoned/dangerous structures or corn fields as if you live in the country, and easy access to basic items without making a special trip to the suburbs or to the other side of town. Detroit doesn't have any of that. Now perhaps some try not to think about that type of stuff and will overlook it in their daily routine, and that's fine as people do tend to adapt to changes [[or they're in denial, as I can name a couple people off the bat, not from this forum, who I feel are).

But the fact of the matter too is until the above programs are corrected, it's going to be difficult to convince people that Detroit is a good place to live. The catch-22 is while we need taxpayers, and not just people who have no formal commitment to the city inside a leased high-rise condo or rented apartment in the city center, but middle-class home owners, to help us repair these problems and will formally investing their money and time in the city, these middle-class homeowners will never put up with all the problems Detroit faces for the CHANCE that it will become a functioning city again.

Also, it is completely false to say that other cities are like Detroit. It's true that other cities face the same problems that Detroit faces, but they don't anywhere near to the extent Detroit does. For example, no other city faces the vicious wealth and race inequality that Detroit faces [[name another city that has a record number of people living below poverty tht's surrounded by some of the wealthiest suburbs in the country, if not world, or even vice-versa). No other city has an non-functioning transit system. No other city has lost half of their population at the rate Detroit has, and their entire middle class tax base. Detroit's problems are not just fundamental, but structural. To correct a structural problem, that means people from all sides will have to make sacrifices they're not comfortable with. Since the people in question won't be comfortable with these changes, they'll never be made.The "good" neighborhoods in other cities don't have homes selling for under $100,000. The "good" neighborhoods in other cities have plenty of retail options, etc.

This is my point exactly, but people fail to recognize it. The huge class gap between the suburbs and city was one of the first things that I recognized when moving here, and frankly it disgusts me. I have never lived in a place where the city was in shambles but surrounded by mansions with hummers... this crap is ridiculous. And the police are a joke. Ambulances do not show up in a reasonable time. I have experienced this firsthand, so it's not like I am just making it up.

People keep trying to say that other cities have these problems with fundamental services, but that's such a lie.

[epiphany]

So name one city anywhere that everything is peachy ,every city big and small has its good areas bad areas and in-between areas,inner cities are more prone to higher crime,more frequent burglaries,car theft etc. That is why you have the option of suburbs or relocation you move to where you feel the safest. And if you think as a woman you can go to any other city then Detroit and walk down the street without men looking at you or treating you "as a piece of meat" then you have not been around much.

If I know nothing about something I educate myself unbiased so I can learn and not pass judgement because of one persons or media statements. Sorry but I have also been burglarized .had my trucks stolen and yes even an entire vintage house full of contents removed while out of town and guess what it was not in Detroit. Shocking huh

I NEVER said that other cities don't have problems, but other cities also have functioning city services and less crime rampant throughout. Guess what, my house was robbed in Huntsville, AL but that doesn't mean that I am going to discount the problems in Detroit... because I have had waaay more problems here. And people keep saying that I am trying to convince everyone that my experience is everyones, and I never said that.

What I DID say, is that I know plenty of other people that have had the same experiences as me... Why does that not matter? Are you calling me a liar?

[Mikeg]

What do I have to do to validate my personal experiences? PLEASE enlighten me.

Since you asked.....

In the bigger scheme of things, your personal experiences are nothing more than anecdotes - they are not statistical evidence. If you want to validate your experiences, you need to collect additional data and whining on an Internet forum isn't a reasonable substitute.

I think you are beyond enlightenment and I have to agree with the poster on the "Bridge Card" thread who described you as "being whiny, self-absorbed, overly dramatic and immature".

[313WX]

In the bigger scheme of things, your personal experiences are nothing more than anecdotes - they are not statistical evidence. If you want to validate your experiences, you need to collect additional data and whining on an Internet forum isn't a reasonable substitute.

Actually, if anything epiphany does have the statistics on his/her side. Nothing he/she is saying is statistically untrue.

So pick your statistic...

*Unemployment
*Mass Transit
*Drop-out Rate
*Crime
*Poverty Levels
*Highest Population Decline Rate of Any Major City
*Highest Taxes Paid In The Country Relative To The Quality Of Services/Life
*The Only Major City Without A Major Grocery Store
*The Highest Illiteracy Rate Amongst Any Major City

Many more to go along with those too.

[Mikeg]

Actually, if anything epiphany does have the statistics on his/her side. Nothing he/she is saying is statistically untrue.

Exactly my point. She should get off the "personal experiences" kick and back it up with some data!

[313WX]

Exactly my point. She should get off the "personal experiences" kick and back it up with some data!

It's all easily accessible through a Yahoo/Google Search. In fact, it should be common knowledge...

-Crime

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43158398...ill-dangerous/

-Unemployment

http://www.bls.gov/web/metro/laummtrk.htm

-Poverty Levels

http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?se...ire&id=8436598

-Mass Transit

http://michigancitizen.com/detroits-...s-p10280-1.htm

-Grocery Store

http://detnews.com/article/20070705/...t-Detroit-hard

-Illiteracy Rate

http://www.whoisakindele.info/2008/0...etroit-is.html

-Drop-Out Rate

http://swampbubbles.com/major-cities...ates-detroit-1

[Richard]

I NEVER said that other cities don't have problems, but other cities also have functioning city services and less crime rampant throughout. Guess what, my house was robbed in Huntsville, AL but that doesn't mean that I am going to discount the problems in Detroit... because I have had waaay more problems here. And people keep saying that I am trying to convince everyone that my experience is everyones, and I never said that.

What I DID say, is that I know plenty of other people that have had the same experiences as me... Why does that not matter? Are you calling me a liar?

I never called you anything you chose to pull me into your debate with antogest ,Huntsville to Detroit ? no offense but that is kinda like throwing Bambi into a den of lions.

I do not question your negative experiences , as they are simuluar to any day news what I would be interested in hearing from you would be what are some of the positive things that have happened to you while in Detroit.If you could be so kind.

[casscorridor]

I think Z made the right choice, Detroit is just not a good place to live, suburbs included. People like Bham seem to think the city's problems are irrelevant if you live in the burbs, and "urban" life can be found there, but clearly so long as our central city is a total waste land, no one who is accustom to city living will want to live ANYWHERE near Detroit.

I live a decent life in Detroit, and have lived in Woodbridge, Midtown, North End and Eastern Market. Each of those neighborhoods have things I like, but ultimately I want out of Detroit, as soon as possible. I long for vibrancy and walking outside my door to find people, activity and life rather than what i find currently which is desolate and dark. I am constantly disappointed and depressed by what I find here-- loneliness, divisiveness, segregation, alienation, violence, poverty and misery are everywhere. Detroit is a melting pot of American disorder.

Will Detroit ever recover? Perhaps one day, but not anytime soon. Too much has been lost, too many services cut, too many people have given up too many years ago, too many neighborhoods destroyed or buildings ravaged or demolished. Nothing short of revolution will turn the city around, for the sheer vastness and severity of the devastation can not be undone within the confines of capitalist development, there simply are not enough rich people to rebuild.

I believe one day we will have socialism and Detroit will be great. But I wouldn't ever recommend someone subjecting themselves to the horrors of America's most chronically ill yet quintessentially American city. Love AND hate it, live here if you so choose, but never glorify what is fundamentally an unjust and disgusting situation or ignore it exists. Just understand how Detroit is, and how it came to be... It might help you understand America and the world as we know it, just a little bit better.

[Zackdog]

You know what? Grow the f%ck up. You've done nothing but huff-and-puff around this thread as if your's is the only opinion that matters, or as if your opinion is God-delivered fact. Your sad attempt to bully to get your point across is rude and immature, and you'd best take a breath and back off if you can't find a better way to represent yourself and say your piece, okay? You went from offering many valid opinions to stomping around here as if you are the sole Speaker for Detroit. You have your opinion. You have an opinion. If you don't mind, let everyone else have there's for once in your miserable life.

She's like that on other forums I've seen her on too. Her way or the wrong way is all there is. She's right - we're wrong. Her attitude is what's the issue. Poor poor Epiphany has been screwed her whole life and her own decisions have had nothing to do with it. Ask her about her 'wicked stepfather'.

[Zackdog]

Since you asked.....

In the bigger scheme of things, your personal experiences are nothing more than anecdotes - they are not statistical evidence. If you want to validate your experiences, you need to collect additional data and whining on an Internet forum isn't a reasonable substitute.

I think you are beyond enlightenment and I have to agree with the poster on the "Bridge Card" thread who described you as "being whiny, self-absorbed, overly dramatic and immature".

And don't forget the post about how she can't go home because of her wicked stepfather...........