Moving to Detroit from Sweden; any advice?

[iheartthed]

Because black people are all about social status, right? They don't have normal human concerns like wanting to raise their kids in a safe environment, send them to excellent neighborhood schools and enjoy city services in proportion to what they pay in taxes? Nice stereotyping.

Well, I didn't say it wasn't the same reason white people are moving to those places.

[Det_ard]

Well, I didn't say it wasn't the same reason white people are moving to those places.

Good to know that you're not racist, just clueless.

[iheartthed]

Good to know that you're not racist, just clueless.

You're funny.

I like how you equate "normal human concerns" to desiring to live in the middle of Suburbia, Michigan. That's classic. If you aren't already, you should go into politics. Your one liners put Soviet era propaganda campaigns to shame. "Normal human concerns"... Hahahaha.

[Forwardlook]

I just found this thread and I find it very sad. I am from Finland and I would LOVE to be in Zeyrek's shoes. Being a history and automotive buff the Detroit area is maybe the number one place in the world I'd like to live in.

I am a bit confused about the OP:s expectations. I can understand that he likes for everything to be within a short distance but it will not happen in the US almost no matter where you are. The US has always been much wealthier than Europe and since most people have been able to afford their own house the cities have grown much bigger. Another reason is of course the cheap automobiles and gas that haven't been taxed to death by evil politicians like in Europe. So, riding a bike to work and everything else being in walking distance is not very likely to happen.

Then there is of course the Detroit dilemma that is a thing in itself. From the OP:s postings I doubt that anything within Detroit would suit him. But Detroit has an excellent freeway system and it is not bad to commute to work from the suburbs. And there are so many beautiful areas around Detroit that make Sweden look like a poorhouse. In fact, in my eyes Scandinavia and Finland are like the third world comparing to the US. I guess it depends how you look at things.

What I want to say ,Zeyrek, is that I think you are throwing a fantastic opportunity away. You should rethink, travel to Detroit and see for yourself. I am surprised you haven't done it. I spent some time in Detroit this summer and if I could find a way to move over I'd do it right away. But I wouldn't live inside the city limits. That's just my view. If you want to speak about Detroit and my feelings about it we can even talk over the phone if you like. Just send me a message. You shouldn't let this chance pass you by.

And read Johannes Spreens book "Who Killed Detroit?". It gives you some insight to what happened during a long period of time.

BTW, a friend of mine is going to Flint to study next year, he is all gung ho about it. And Flint isn't exactly kindergarden either...

[mwilbert]

Detroiters who had serious problems with living near black folks left town 30 years ago. People who are leaving now have other reasons.

[bartock]

This is a shock to you? Not true of everyone of course, but defintely true for some people.

I think we agree on that.

[Detroit Stylin]

All of you need to get past the race thing. This is no longer about race. This is about a city being completely disfunctional.

65 people a day, every day, decided to move out of Detroit for the last 10 years.

According to the census Detroit lost 237,493 people in 10 years, That's 23,749 people a year for 10 years. That's 65 people a day that decided to move out of Detroit during the last census span.

In 2000 Detroit was 12.26 % white, In 2010 it was 10.65 white.

That means 40,965 white people moved out during those 10 years. During the same time 185,567 black people moved out. Yes, a higher becentage of whites moved out, however the black exodus is not far behind.

People are not moving out because of the racial makeup of the city. They are moving out due to high crime, the terrible school system, very high tax rates, a lack of jobs, collapsing home values and a completely dysfunctional government.

And politics has nothing at all to do with this correct?

[CityGirl]

I think we can all accept that you have had a bad expierience in the city. That doesn't mean that everyone has, will, or should expect to. Why must we be labled polly-anna's or homers just because we haven't had problems. We have offered our expieriences as a counter to your's. I have not had any problems in Detroit. I was the victim of property crime twice while living in a good area of Kansas City. These problems are not Detroit's alone. Lowell made a good point in that Detroit has islands that are good, and if you know how to navigate between the islands you are less likely to have problems.

I will agree with this. I lived outside of Atlanta in the early-mid 90s, after moving there from Detroit. I saw more crime [[and was more fearful) in my 9 mos of living in Atlanta than I experienced in my 22 yrs living inside the City of Detroit. I agree, it all depends on WHERE in the city you live.
Before anyone argues the "that was 20 years ago" take, Detroit was considered a violent city back then, AND it had a greater population. While the population of Detroit has decreased, I do not believe the crime statistics per capita have grown. If anything, it has lessened.

[Islandman]

Islandman, your comments were just as angry as mine were. Let's just thank God that we both have freedom of association, and that neither of us will ever have to interact in real life.

Being a nonblack person doesn't give you the right to make your comments, but I will defend to the death your right to say and believe anything that you want.

My point, which you conveniently [[and typically) overlooked, was simply this -- don't LIE to yourselves about the reasons why you make the choices that you do. I'm not going around this city or posting on this thread as if this is a colorblind world. It's not.

We will never agree. We will never see eye to eye. And we are a microcosm why this region is as sick and as sad as it is.

I never said your post was angry, and neither is mine. There is a difference between angry and offensive.

Freedom of association is anyone's right, I never suggested/spoke of anything to do with this, so I'll take it you're suggesting you never want to interact with me in real life. No worries on that front, and I never suggested anything of the sort.

Further, I am a Black Puerto Rican; suffice it to say I have never been mistaken for Puerto Rican around these parts and have never been mistaken for Ricky Martin.

Lastly, your assertion that we will never agree on anything is made by you and pretty myopic. I'd expect better from a fellow Cass Tech graduate.

[Ravine]

I feel sorry for Zeyrek. It sounds as though the move to this area is a sure thing, and if Zeyrek has kept up with this outrageous thread, surely Zeyrek is filled with dread.
One of the most pervasive problems that exists within Racism In The U.S. is that truth is measured after first establishing, or guessing at, the color of the speaker.

[gnome]

Islandman, that has to be the funniest post I've read all year.

[Bagley]

The way you're phrasing it is obviously a ridiculous generalization, but it's not hard to see where successful members of a group that society generally perceives as "less-than" might tend to be more concerned than white folks about the image their address projects about them. If anybody who looks at you is going to subconsciously read you as "respectable," it doesn't really matter where you live.

Wait, so us black folks who are concerned about schools, status and safety [[in no particular order), are 1) moving to the suburbs and 2) different from our white counterparts in why we move?

This comment could be part of a take on Monty Python's Constitutional Peasant sketch wherein you try to explain to a black metro Detroiter that their choice of residency was based on their lust for status. I don't live in a tidy and bucolic Detroit neighborhood for status. I live where I do because my neighbors have values that resonate with my own.

[gazhekwe]

I think poor Zeyrek turned down the job here.

[iheartthed]

I don't live in a tidy and bucolic Detroit neighborhood for status. I live where I do because my neighbors have values that resonate with my own.

Hilarious.

[Islandman]

Islandman, that has to be the funniest post I've read all year.

Mirth is free brother, glad to help.

[gnome]

I think poor Zeyrek turned down the job here.

I fear poor Zeyrek must feel like he jumped into the center of a family knife fight. Poor guy just wanted a little info on where to hang his hat, and he gets a this.

Some of the folks here should be ashamed of themselves.

[Ravine]

I agree with you, Gnome, and if Zeyrek turned down the job, probably so much the better for Zeyrek.

Zeyrek should be glad for coming to this forum to launch the inquiry. Now, Zeyrek sees how we really are, here in "the Detroit area."
Angry. Nasty.
Judgmental and high-handed.
We love to blame somebody else, as though we would be OK if so & so didn't dog us out all of the time.
And always, divided.

The educated over-value their academic status while the under-educated scorn them, with occasional veracity, for being uppity, not black enough, "siddity," or whatfuckingever.

If I say that, over the course of the past 30 years, I've watched as Detroit's black community cannibalizes itself, have I spoken an untruth? Am I a bad guy? Can those two questions be answered without knowing what I am and who I "look like?"

We elect the wrong people, often based on idiotic things such as "name recognition." Then, when we get bad results, we don't want to face facts.
Make no mistake: Kwame Kilpatrick really does love us. Of course he does; why wouldn't he? He does as he pleases, takes personal advantage of his position, exploits each & every one of us who voted for him, and then when his septic tank backs up and explodes shit all over his face, he blames everyone he can think of while also, of course, playing the race card, and a solid half of us actually fuckin' believe him and still morally support him.
Of course he loves us!! What's to not love?!!?

Oh, and I almost forgot to spray venom toward the "Ay-rabs," who snuck in and bought up all of the party stores & gas stations while we were, ummh, at church, yeah, that's where we were, at church. Those fuckers. We should own those places, but they "came over here" with pockets full of, and spilling over with, cash and jumped in just when we were getting ready to fully commit to buying, and operating, our own small businesses, just when we were lining up relatives & friends who would be willing to work day & night in shitty neighborhoods, for years, before starting to turn a real profit.
Yeah. That's what happened, those bastards. We were almost ready, too.

I could go on. Anybody want me to go on? I could start in on the schools, or the parents who think of them as surrogate guardians. Or am I causing a creeping sense of guilty discomfort?

[stromberg2]

^^^
Brilliant! Please go on......

Stromberg2

[gnome]

Good job my friend; however, you forgot about the Jews, spics, drunken Irish [[as if there could be any other kind) and the occasional goose-stepping German.

[jcole]

Beautifully stated, Ravine.

[Ravine]

Gnome, some of those groups aren't so much in the current mix, of course, and watch it with that "drunken Irish" stuff, goddamit, but yeah, about those Jews, if they had any guts they would leave Oak Park and come back here to reclaim those shitty-looking abandoned houses that just sit there, over in the Dexter/Davison area, bringing down the vibe.

Ah, but enough about that; even in jest, I don't want to come off as a racist, when it's bullshitting phonies who are the true object of my imperious and ruthless disdain.

Come to think of it, when it comes to the schools, I'm not sure of what to say about the schools, when the real problem with the schools is the parents who use them as a dumping ground for the kids in whom no trace of civility or manners has been instilled and then bitch and moan if they are called upon, ever, to get even slightly involved in their kids' education.
Doesn't paying city taxes mean that it should go just like this?
1. Ship kid off to school. Make sure kid has cell phone, "in case of emergency."
2. School educates them and serves them a good lunch [[which will make up for that nutritionally-challenged breakfast of Pop-Tarts.)
3. Kid comes home, may or may not have homework, they should know how to do it, because that's what the teachers are for, so all that's necessary is to tell them to do it and later ask if they did it.
4. School year ends, kid should be promoted to next grade. If not, what happened? How come nobody told me that he was... Oh, wait. Maybe that's what that letter, the one I got last January, was about. Shit. Where did I put that damned letter?

I'm not finished, yet. I just need to take a break. I'm giving myself a headache.

[stromberg2]

Yes, continue later!!

Stromberg2

[Ravine]

It won't be long. I'm just getting started. You guys should probably start saying Goodbye to me now. Again.

[rjk]

So the OP was planing to move to Detroit in April and then decides against it based on the responses on a message board and some internet research? Wouldn't the best source of info come from the people/management who are working at the Detroit branch of the engineering firm he supposedly works for?

[Ravine]

Probably so, but Zeyrek came here.