Saving Detroit - TheCall Detroit 11.11.11 Ford Field

**justanotherboy** · November-11-11, 04:44 PM

"Ummmm, did you not read the first post in this thread? Makes it pretty clear that some of this so-called outpouring of love is aimed directly at hating Islam and Muslims."

Can you point out the specific example of hate toward Islam and Muslims in the first post? I didn't see it.

I see a lot of hate and bigatory toward Christians on this thread though.

**Detroitnerd** · November-11-11, 04:52 PM

Oh, my. Hate and bigotry toward Christians? No, man. If you pay attention to what's being said, you'll likely realize it's the viewpoint of former Christians who ... woke up.

Besides. Want to know what religion most Christian-killers professed? Christianity ...

**justanotherboy** · November-11-11, 05:03 PM

No - Numerous of you posters have said there is hate toward Islam and Muslim - can you give specific examples of that hate or is that simply your own bigatry showing.

lilpup · November-11-11, 05:04 PM

I think the most damning report I've heard is that the website for The Call used to have anti-Muslim statements on it that were removed after the announcement of the Detroit event.

**Detroitnerd** · November-11-11, 05:09 PM

“Leaders from Detroit’s Christian and Muslim communities have expressed concern about ‘The Call: Detroit,’ whose leaders frequently demonize Islam and promote ‘dominionist’ theology, which advocates a takeover of government, media and business by conservative Christians.”

Or take the words of the Rev. Lou Engle: The place where they say there is no hope – a microcosm of our national crisis – economic collapse, racial tension, the rising tide of the Islamic movement, and the shedding of our children’s innocent blood on the streets and yet unborn – God has chosen as His staging ground for healing and prayer. We are daring to believe that Detroit’s desperation can produce a prayer that can change a nation.

Yup, sounds like they're anti-Muslim to me.

**justanotherboy** · November-11-11, 05:11 PM

How is the mentioning "the rising tide of the islamic movement" equate to anti-muslim? huh?

How does that equal "hate"?

**Detroitnerd** · November-11-11, 05:13 PM

On Friday, Nov. 11 [[11/11/11), right-wing activist Lou Engle and the group Transformation Michigan will host The Call: Detroit a prayer rally, the stated purpose of which is to convert Muslims to Christianity to prevent what Transformation Michigan calls “the advance of the enemy.”
When speaking with mainstream news outlets, The Call: Detroit’s organizers have attempted to downplay their anti-Muslim rhetoric, painting the rally as an inclusive gathering for people of faith to pray for Detroit’s depressed economy. However, Engle and Transformation Michigan’s statements to supporters show that The Call will present something much more harmful and divisive: an attempt to stir up misunderstanding and fear of Detroit and Dearborn’s Muslim communities while promoting a view of government exclusively by and for conservative Christians.
The Call: Detroit is closely linked to Texas Gov. Rick Perry’s radical The Response rally in August, which was organized by the International House of Prayer, where Engle is based, and included many of the same speakers. Perry’s rally came under scrutiny for promoting “Seven Mountains Dominionism,” a fringe movement of conservative Christians who seek to take over the “seven mountains” of American life – including government, media, business and entertainment – in order to pave the way for the End Times. The Call: Detroit, whose speakers have promoted radical anti-Muslim, anti-gay and anti-choice views, come from the same tradition, which seeks to blend right-wing politics and religion and promote a government run by and catering to a small number of Christian conservatives.
A number of Detroit faith leaders have begun speaking out against The Call: Detroit, including Rev. Charles Williams II of People For the American Way’s African American Ministers in Action. “Religious leaders who support this event should really take a look at what its undertones are all about,” Rev. Williams said, “As a Christian pastor I support prayer, but not to bash another religion, nor to hide behind the subterfuge of political gamesmanship.”

For more, see http://www.rightwingwatch.org/conten...t-call-detroit

**Detroitnerd** · November-11-11, 05:14 PM

Originally Posted by justanotherboy

How is the mentioning "the rising tide of the islamic movement" equate to anti-muslim? huh?

How does that equal "hate"?

Oh, I don't know. Maybe lumping in Islam as part of "our national crisis" along with "economic collapse, racial tension, and the shedding of innocent blood of our children in the streets and of our unborn" might prove something -- if you have a brain at all...

**Detroitnerd** · November-11-11, 05:17 PM

These guys sound like a bunch of ignorant nuts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nBya...ayer_embedded#!

lilpup · November-11-11, 05:39 PM

It sounds like these guys don't realize that Islam recognizes Jesus Christ as a prophet much the same way Christianity recognizes Judaism's Moses as a prophet.

I saw an interesting post elsewhere that just lumped the three persuasions together as "Abrahamists" instead of discriminating between them. I think I like that simplification.

**Detroitnerd** · November-11-11, 05:41 PM

Agreed, lilpup. Historically and spiritually, Christianity and Islam have more in common than they do different.

**corktownyuppie** · November-11-11, 05:49 PM

- Mom once told me, "God will provide. But if you don't plant any apple seeds, you aren't gonna get any apples."
- I think the best antidote to poisonous speech is more speech, so I tend to be pretty ACLU as far as free speech [[even idiotic speech) goes.
- Yes, I am happy that local businesses will be taking their money.
- Living in a big city means that there's gonna be crazy people spouting crazy ideas.

I look at it this way. You know the fringe lunatic guys that thought the world was going to end in May? And they would wear signs stating the end was near? If they want to rent out Ford Field for $500,000 or whatever, I'm fine with it.

**Pam** · November-11-11, 07:40 PM

And a note about cultural literacy: did Ravine not know about poppies?

He asked why protestors in the UK wanted to burn them, not what they symbolized. I assume he knows that.

Ravine · November-11-11, 08:45 PM

Right, Pam. My curiosity was pinched by why the threat of burning them was considered to be so offensive as to cause the reaction cited. The reaction was quite strong, so I was wondering if there was some bit of history [[I nearly wrote,"past history," HAR!!) specifically involving poppy-burning.

Also, with US forces currently engaged, in Afghanistan, with a radical-extremist-superbogeyman group which claims to espouse Islamic principles, I even drifted into some idle mental meanderings about the heroin trade.
Just one o' them "Wait, What?" moments.

As to the other business, I don't get a good feeling when a group which seems to be promoting one religious ideal pointedly mentions a "rising tide" of another.
But then, having seen Nazi propaganda films likening Jews to rats erupting out of sewers, and hearing Gadhafi describe Libyan freedom fighters the same way, perhaps I have become over-sensitized to imagery, and-- other than maybe in the occasional Brian Wilson lyric-- "rising tide" just tends to sound as though the object of the term is seen as a Bad Thing.

**PaulieG63** · November-12-11, 01:24 AM

From the Rachel Maddow show:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908...show/#45264757
on Friday, 11NOV2011

Paul

**animatedmartian** · November-12-11, 06:21 AM

So has anyone actually seen how many people have been going in and out of Ford Field the past day? Has Detroit been cured of its Muslim problem yet? Or do we have to wait another 12 hours until God revitalizes Detroit?

lilpup · November-12-11, 07:06 AM

DetNews reports on the order of 30,000. Freep reports 50,000 to 70,000 were expected but actual attendance is much lower.

**Lowell** · November-12-11, 07:42 AM

One would think some enterprising entrepreneurs would have seized the moment and set up booths and sold over-priced swag, like T-shirts saying I SAVED DETROIT on 11.11.11, Stemming the Muslim Tide for America, Jesus Gets My Vote etc. Why should Engle get all their gold?

**gnome** · November-12-11, 07:56 AM

Lowell, I consider this Detroit Pray-In tantamount to hate speech, and am rather surprised you have promoted it. I see nothing funny about homophobic, anti-islamic speech. Organized bullying is more like it and just because some folks are bringing money into town is no reason to support this event.

**Lowell** · November-12-11, 08:06 AM

No promotion on my part Gnome. It is what it is. It is constitutionally defended speech, for better or for worse, and if they want to drop their money in our community you or I can't stop them. I am not making a penny from their presence so perhaps you should aim your barbs at the hotels, restaurants and swag dealers who are.

They will come, spew their code-speak hate-for-donations sermons and go away. Little of nothing will have changed and they will be completely forgotten by next week.

Ravine · November-12-11, 09:31 AM

Originally Posted by Lowell

No promotion on my part Gnome. It is what it is. It is constitutionally defended speech, for better or for worse, and if they want to drop their money in our community you or I can't stop them. I am not making a penny from their presence so perhaps you should aim your barbs at the hotels, restaurants and swag dealers who are.

They will come, spew their code-speak hate-for-donations sermons and go away. Little of nothing will have changed and they will be completely forgotten by next week.

None the less, Lowell, I can testify that I was entirely unaware of the event until you brought our attention to it and mentioned the discounts available on lodging, etc.

**detroitsgwenivere** · November-12-11, 02:23 PM

Originally Posted by Ravine

None the less, Lowell, I can testify that I was entirely unaware of the event until you brought our attention to it and mentioned the discounts available on lodging, etc.

So? The news has been talking about this for over 2 weeks. The commercials have been running for almost a month. You guys live under a rock or somethin?

**Detroit Stylin** · November-12-11, 04:14 PM

Originally Posted by detroitsgwenivere

So? The news has been talking about this for over 2 weeks. The commercials have been running for almost a month. You guys live under a rock or somethin?

For some reason that GEICO commercial popped into my head after i read this...

**Jimaz** · November-12-11, 04:59 PM

Originally Posted by Detroit Stylin

For some reason that GEICO commercial popped into my head after i read this...

I couldn't resist.

Do you live under a rock? - GEICO Commercial

Now that Detroit has been all saved and everything, what's left to do?

I know. Let's have ice cream!

**Zacha341** · November-12-11, 06:49 PM

I hear that. Bottom line: There are key specifics of incompatibility between Islam and Christianity.

For most practicing Christians Jesus is God expressed as such in certain points of the Bible, conversely Allah is God for the Muslim as expressed in certain parts of the Koran. Jesus is considered a prophet only in Islam. Both systems promote the concept of conversion, and spreading the news of "God" to those not so informed. The argument of rather that is by force or free will is another discussion. But both for certain proselytise.

So, regarding the 'interfaith' options, that concept has a place where ideas of social justice, political policy morals etc can be shared and discussed. But there are "non-negotiables" in both faiths that neither will trade away.

Those non-negotiables are not found in Christianity ONLY.

Exclusivity [[relative for example as proclaims truth, and or who God is or not) is found at the core of most religions and secular philosophies. Often, even the ones claiming to not be exclusive, exclude the exclusivitistics!

Originally Posted by justanotherboy

"Ummmm, did you not read the first post in this thread? Makes it pretty clear that some of this so-called outpouring of love is aimed directly at hating Islam and Muslims."

Can you point out the specific example of hate toward Islam and Muslims in the first post? I didn't see it.

I see a lot of hate and bigatory toward Christians on this thread though.