Remember when we were Black and Proud....

[blksoul_x]

In the United States of America, "individual pride" does not have to alienate others. This is where your ingenuity comes in. Enjoy the rejuvenation of your ideas, and the fruit of your "Individual pride", and do so in a manner that is not at the expense of other citizens of the United States of America.

Very well said V.....metaphorically speaking, as with a funky horn soloist in a James Brown set, 'individuality' is promoted in order to sustain and increase the creative friction within the set [[collective)__a friction that generates higher levels of performance to achieve the aim of the collective operation. ESPECIALLY as it relates to the 'Black and Proud' concept within the Black experience!

Say it Loud, I'm Black and I'm Proud, as we struggle in amerikkka'!__go figure!

blksoul_atcha!
The BJL, the Color you love to hate!

[ccbatson]

Collectivism is the equivalent of myopia by virtue of the refusal to see the profound potential of individual freedom. America exceptionalism is the modern example

[vetalalumni]

Thanks blksoul_x. Our common ground, in the way you see it, and in the way I see it, is a pleasant place. Be strengthened.

[ccbatson]

MLK had it right. It is not the color of one's skin that they should be proud of, or not

[vetalalumni]

Collectivism is the equivalent of myopia by virtue of the refusal to see the profound potential of individual freedom. America exceptionalism is the modern example.

These arguments are so weak that I'm growing weary. Like Brad Pitt said, "Is there no one else?".

[ccbatson]

So weak?? Not weaker than no response at all

[vetalalumni]

So weak?? Not weaker than no response at all.

Please, when you don't have anything good to say, then don't say anything at all.

You seek and receive pity. Not attractive.

[Linda from Detroit]

Pride, whether it's Black, White, Red or Rainbow, is when you can look in the mirror, meet your gaze straight in the eye and say "I did well today and tomorrrow I'm going to do even better not just for myself, but for those around me."

[gibran]

that is also character ....nicely put Linda

[ccbatson]

Well said Linda....keep it up.

[vetalalumni]

blksoul_x, I'm reading an interesting book you might appreciate as well. It is titled "A Companion to African Philosophy [[Blackwell Companions to Philosophy)" by Kwasi Wiredu. Negritude is discussed in pleasing fashion.

[Trumpeteer]

Pam,

I not blksoul-X or Rasputin. Their codespeak is different.

DANNY ...whatever.

[blksoul_x]

blksoul_x, I'm reading an interesting book you might appreciate as well. It is titled "A Companion to African Philosophy [[Blackwell Companions to Philosophy)" by Kwasi Wiredu. Negritude is discussed in pleasing fashion.

Thanx for the hint 'V'. On my way to find it as we speak. Anything else you find of interest in Black Philosophy etc., holla at me.

blksoul_atcha!
The BJL, we a movement by ourselves!

[Papasito]

Until we are American and proud FIRST, and culturally diverse second, this nation will continue to need healing.

[vetalalumni]

blksoul_x, I'm reading an interesting book you might appreciate as well. It is titled "A Companion to African Philosophy [[Blackwell Companions to Philosophy)" by Kwasi Wiredu. Negritude is discussed in pleasing fashion.

Thanx for the hint 'V'. On my way to find it as we speak. Anything else you find of interest in Black Philosophy etc., holla at me.

blksoul_atcha!
The BJL, we a movement by ourselves!

There is a preview of "A Companion to African Philosophy [[Blackwell Companions to Philosophy)" at google books --> http://books.google.com/books?id=0HI...m=100&as_brr=0 You will find many other Authors mentioned throughout this book.

Carefully peruse these additional sources:

• The African American Literature Book Club --> http://aalbc.com/
• Thumper's Corner [[a robust forum) --> http://www.thumperscorner.com/
• African American Review --> http://aar.slu.edu/

I own a very small personal library of black historical literature.

[humanmachinery]

I think the problem is that you're trying to define yourself by opposition to white people.

That's a "no" philosophy. It's a non-starter.

It's not enough to say what you don't want to be. You have to come up with your own definition of who you are, and then work on what you do want to be. You also have to accept that other people who share your cultural and ethnic background might not want the same things you do. That's all part of the deal. Being free means being an individual, and sometimes it means accepting views and choices from other people that aren't for you.

This is now a bigger issue for black Americans as buppies are ascending to privileged positions of money and power. It's true that the black experience in this country has been defined for centuries by struggle and frustration, but much of that is now changing. People like Barack Obama and Colin Powell now have to ask themselves a question that countless others asked before "how do you fight the man once you've become the man?"

[humanmachinery]

I'll elaborate for further perspective. Yes. I'm a white guy. Here's a discussion I had with my friend William, on our mutual love of Soul Train.

-----------------

Me: Teddy Pendergrass was maybe half a notch below Barry White and Marvin Gaye in the pantheon of '70s makeout music.



That's nothing to sneeze at. In the words of Outkast "Teddy Pendergrass was cooler than Freddie Jackson sipping a milkshake in a snowstorm."

William: Such was the power of Soul Train, that a white Canadian such as myself knows the show.

Ah... the 1970s. A magical time when black people had as bad taste in clothes as anybody else!

Golf pants!!??

I used to watch it back then on a Buffalo, NY station, and then I'd flip the channel to PBS and watch Doctor Who starring Tom Baker.

It was strange time, with many cool messages going into my vertebrae.

When I went over to the house of my Black Friend [[™) Chris Wilson, this is what we'd watch. He never liked Doctor Who, though. So we'd play with Star Wars toys instead.

After about the age of 11, I thought Chris's older sister Karen was hawt. I kept those ideas to myself.

I still have a rather disturbing memory though. Karen was screaming in the kitchen while her mother poured some rather terrible-smelling hair relaxing chemicals on her hair. Karen had had an afro up to about 1980, but she wanted long braided hair in the Jamaican style after that point.

The chemical process was rather painful. I didn't understand why she wanted to do it until later. Karen was 14 when I was 11, and she wanted to look more "cool" once the afro went out of style. After this ordeal, she looked a lot like the girl at 1:02 in the video below.



The chubby guy from 1:08 to 1:11 is channeling the very meaning of the universe.

Some of the nerdiest black people I have ever seen dance [[badly) in this video. Ah, it restores my notions of equality for all just to watch it.

[vetalalumni]

Humanmachinery, your last two posts [[# 41 and # 42) had me laughing and contemplating simultaneously. You have yourself demonstrated style in those posts. Kudos for not mocking or deriding, while having the courage to voice your opinion. While in the minutia everyone will not agree with your assertions, the point is that this is an example of the dialogue that should be encouraged on the personal level. It is a start. A commitment to honesty and respect is required.

For me, studying the history of Africa and black people is fundamental. But it is not taught, so one has to acquire the information independently.

Have you studied African or black history? Wiredu piqued my interest out of a sense of root value. Next for me is Paulin Hountondji's "African philosophy: myth and reality". Here is a substantial Google books preview --> http://books.google.com/books?id=dtL...age&q=&f=false

[humanmachinery]

I've made a fairly concerted effort to understand black culture and history in the United States, but I'll admit my understanding of African history [[notwithstanding ancient Egypt and the horrors of European colonization) is pretty meager.

Back when I was in grade school, I actually had to explain to my parents how in the first millennium CE, Africa was far more advanced than contemporary Europe. There were actual empires with systems of trade, written languages, and planned cities. Folks like the Vikings, Visigoths, and Angles were too busy smearing shit on cave walls and burning villages to the ground to worry about stuff like that.

Mom and dad thought I was full of it. They assumed Europe had always been the "natural" center of everything.

*sigh*

[Detroit Stylin]

When I went over to the house of my Black Friend [[â„¢) Chris Wilson, this is what we'd watch. He never liked Doctor Who, though. So we'd play with Star Wars toys instead.

Thats funny.....why did you trademark that? LMAO...

[Pam]

The chubby guy from 1:08 to 1:11 is channeling the very meaning of the universe.

Hey, isn't that Fred "Rerun" Berry?

Some of the nerdiest black people I have ever seen dance [[badly) in this video. Ah, it restores my notions of equality for all just to watch it.

Ha, ha. I used to watch Soul Train too and I don't remember the kids dancing that badly. Guess it was an off day.

[Thomcat52]

Disco chicks were easy...

[vetalalumni]

I think the problem is that you're trying to define yourself by opposition to white people.

That's a "no" philosophy. It's a non-starter.

It's not enough to say what you don't want to be. You have to come up with your own definition of who you are, and then work on what you do want to be. You also have to accept that other people who share your cultural and ethnic background might not want the same things you do. That's all part of the deal. Being free means being an individual, and sometimes it means accepting views and choices from other people that aren't for you.

This is now a bigger issue for black Americans as buppies are ascending to privileged positions of money and power. It's true that the black experience in this country has been defined for centuries by struggle and frustration, but much of that is now changing. People like Barack Obama and Colin Powell now have to ask themselves a question that countless others asked before "how do you fight the man once you've become the man?"

You've demonstrated a slight lack of decorum in your communication. Blksoul_x did not request advice or recommendations from either of us. Your post # 41 could be interpreted as preachy or authoritative due to the directness in your words. However, it is very doubtful that you intended to offend because that would serve no real purpose. And you are obviously cognizant of the often sensitive nature of such discussions. I'm being rather direct with you because you've here in this thread shown a propensity to use that tone and style.

If I may be so bold, your references to "buppies" and "fighting the man" might be a bit cliched. Most people are closer to the middle and will never be a President or Secretary of State. And many realize the man they might need to fight the most is theirself.

Many simply dismiss people and views they disagree with or don't want to understand. We do see many contemporary examples in society of the "no to everything" approach.

Thats funny.....why did you trademark that? LMAO...

Yeah, the trademark was funny.

I've made a fairly concerted effort to understand black culture and history in the United States, but I'll admit my understanding of African history [[notwithstanding ancient Egypt and the horrors of European colonization) is pretty meager.

Back when I was in grade school, I actually had to explain to my parents how in the first millennium CE, Africa was far more advanced than contemporary Europe. There were actual empires with systems of trade, written languages, and planned cities. Folks like the Vikings, Visigoths, and Angles were too busy smearing shit on cave walls and burning villages to the ground to worry about stuff like that.

Mom and dad thought I was full of it. They assumed Europe had always been the "natural" center of everything.

*sigh*

Well you may have studied more than most. My studying has been all over the map. I've met and have signed copies of writings by Juan Williams, Cornel West, and even have a signed book by the late Judge Leon Higginbotham. The best knowledge I've attained came independently.

[humanmachinery]

You've demonstrated a slight lack of decorum in your communication. Blksoul_x did not request advice or recommendations from either of us. Your post # 41 could be interpreted as preachy or authoritative due to the directness in your words. However, it is very doubtful that you intended to offend because that would serve no real purpose. And you are obviously cognizant of the often sensitive nature of such discussions. I'm being rather direct with you because you've here in this thread shown a propensity to use that tone and style.

Sorry for my belated reply. I've been away for months, busy with other things.

Yeah, that's a general failing of mine on a lot of fronts. I have a tendency to adopt a lecturing tone, even when it's not appropriate. It often gives people the idea that I'm a pompous robot who doesn't have any feelings and doesn't care about anyone else either.

Still, I have to weigh this problem against knowing that if I always worry about hurting other people's feelings, I never say anything of consequence.

If I may be so bold, your references to "buppies" and "fighting the man" might be a bit cliched. Most people are closer to the middle and will never be a President or Secretary of State. And many realize the man they might need to fight the most is theirself.

Many simply dismiss people and views they disagree with or don't want to understand. We do see many contemporary examples in society of the "no to everything" approach.

Well, I was assuming a simple response to what I saw as a simple and repetitive series of posts. And yes, you're right that most people will never achieve the sort of success that Obama and Powell have, regardless of their background, but it really does show that an "us against the world" scenario doesn't exist. That mindset is one of the uglier consequences of groupthink, and ethnic nationalism only exacerbates it. It not only obscures balanced self-criticism, but precludes the possibility of understanding the world in any logical or empathetic way.

Yeah, the trademark was funny.

Yeah. I can't speak for William, but I think he was making fun of how left-wing, sophisticated, and sympathetic white people like to congratulate themselves on having at least one black friend, even if they know nothing about black culture or history.

Well you may have studied more than most. My studying has been all over the map. I've met and have signed copies of writings by Juan Williams, Cornel West, and even have a signed book by the late Judge Leon Higginbotham. The best knowledge I've attained came independently.

Cool. I've read Williams, but the other names are new to me. I'll have to look those guys up.

Thanks for understanding. :-)

[Papasito]

I respect the "black and proud" thing but

in amerikkka'

Is a very racist generalization.