EDC votes to demo Tiger Stadium

[kraig]

So, you're blaming the OTSC for the DEGC's demolition spree?

If the DEGC had simply decided to relieve themselves of this property, the OTSC could have started "soft" demolition of the remaining structure while waiting for the remaining funding to arrive from DC.

No, that's like blaming the Magic for beating the Cavs.

Again, the OTSC had the means to get the Mayor to tell the DEGC what to do. The OTSC ran around for over 6 months while Cockrel was in office as though Kwame was still in office. That, I do blame on the OTSC.

[Novine]

"Did they have enough cash on hand to purchase the property so that they would have leverage for this occasion? NO."

I don't know whether this is true or not. But it doesn't matter. DEGC is notorious for spurning offers to develop or acquire property by anyone who's not on their favorites list. No doubt that list is closely tied to who's connected or who's generously donated to the politicians. If you are so in the know, you would already know this and not offer up this phony line of attack.

[Fnemecek]

I'm holding them to the standard of a group that is familiar with the city's system and had more support from the city than people want to acknowledge. In case you haven't read all of my other posts, I'll reiterate.

The OTSC had the support of City Council, the City Planning Commision, Senator Carl Levin and 4million dollars, one of their Board members was a former employee of Maryann Mahaffey, one was a former member of the City Planning Commission and one was the floor majority leader up until January 1st. In the middle of a tight mayoral race were both candidates stated support for the project, there were just too many ample opportunites to get the deal done that were not pursued. Conservancy groups all over would give anything to be in the position that the OTSC was in.

Which one of those things do you believe was supposed to get the National Park Service to work faster?

Oh, wait! There I go asking you 10th grade level questions again. Sorry. You can wait a couple of years before answering.

By the way, you misspelled the words "commission" and "opportunities" in your post. Come on, kid. I'm sure they have dictionaries in your grade school by now. Please learn how to use them.

[detourdetroit]

While I do appreciate Kraig's Machiavellian view of the world... it's certainly an elemental aspect of big city politicking that we of the more idealistic bent should keep in mind... it also seems there's much time to demand payments from people...and a fairly narrow point of view but a pretty wide sense of Kraig.

[kraig]

"Did they have enough cash on hand to purchase the property so that they would have leverage for this occasion? NO."

I don't know whether this is true or not. But it doesn't matter. DEGC is notorious for spurning offers to develop or acquire property by anyone who's not on their favorites list. No doubt that list is closely tied to who's connected or who's generously donated to the politicians. If you are so in the know, you would already know this and not offer up this phony line of attack.

You don't know whether it's true or not, but you can say it's a phony line of attack. Okay.

I'm not saying that what the DEGC is doing is right. But, the OTSC is familiar with how the DEGC operates and how things work in this city. I notice that no one is actually responding to the point about the OTSC blowing their chances while Cockrel was in office. That's because you know I'm right. Everyone is looking at this from an emotional standpoint, I can understand that.

[ghettopalmetto]

Now I'm curious to know whose fault the Lafayette Building demolition will be. Certainly, one can't hold the DEGC accountable for decisions that they make.

[kraig]

Now I'm curious to know whose fault the Lafayette Building demolition will be. Certainly, one can't hold the DEGC accountable for decisions that they make.

Everyone is accountable for the decisions they make. The thing is, the DEGC is going to be perfectly fine with their decision on the Lafayette Building, as they are, with the Stadium. This is a part of what they do and this is how they do it.

If a person or group actively opposes the demolition and is granted an opportunity to prevent the demolition, then that group should be held accountable for their actions, or lack thereof, in meeting whatever goal or goals that were agreed upon.

Speaking again to being held to a higher standard, look at it in this perspective.

If a student is awarded an academic scholarship, they're expected to maintain a higher G.P.A. than students that are not awarded scholarships in order to retain their scholarships. If that student does not maintain that GPA and loses their scholarship, whose fault is it? The University's or the student's.

[ghettopalmetto]

Everyone is accountable for the decisions they make. The thing is, the DEGC is going to be perfectly fine with their decision on the Lafayette Building, as they are, with the Stadium. This is a part of what they do and this is how they do it.

If a person or group actively opposes the demolition and is granted an opportunity to prevent the demolition, then that group should be held accountable for their actions, or lack thereof, in meeting whatever goal or goals that were agreed upon.

Speaking again to being held to a higher standard, look at it in this perspective.

If a student is awarded an academic scholarship, they're expected to maintain a higher G.P.A. than students that are not awarded scholarships in order to retain their scholarships. If that student does not maintain that GPA and loses their scholarship, whose fault is it? The University's or the student's.

Kraig, you write as if the DEGC somehow did the OTSC a huge favor by stringing them along for the past ten years. Let's get this straight: there is zero opportunity cost for the DEGC to allow this historic building to remain standing.

The deadlines imposed by DEGC were artificial and arbitrary. There IS NO ALTERNATIVE in place other than demolition. Which begs the question: If the DEGC has the money to demolish the remainder of the structure, why can't they contribute said money toward ECONOMIC GROWTH [[you know, the "EG" in "DEGC") of this parcel?

The lack of willingness to commit funds to anything other than demolition, and the selective enforcement of arbitrary deadlines sends a huge message to the world, and that message is, "Welcome to Detroit. We don't want your business, and we don't give a shit."

[kraig]

Which one of those things do you believe was supposed to get the National Park Service to work faster?

Oh, wait! There I go asking you 10th grade level questions again. Sorry. You can wait a couple of years before answering.

By the way, you misspelled the words "commission" and "opportunities" in your post. Come on, kid. I'm sure they have dictionaries in your grade school by now. Please learn how to use them.

I'll ignore your two deflecting comments and respond to your question.

Waiting for the National Park Service had nothing to do with reaching out to Ken Cockrel while he was the mayor.

[ghettopalmetto]

I'll ignore your two deflecting comments and respond to your question.

Waiting for the National Park Service had nothing to do with reaching out to Ken Cockrel while he was the mayor.

WTF? How you can pin DEGC's decision as the fault of OTSC is beyond me. That's like blaming a neglected child for not telling his parents he needs food and shelter.

[kraig]

Kraig, you write as if the DEGC somehow did the OTSC a huge favor by stringing them along for the past ten years. Let's get this straight: there is zero opportunity cost for the DEGC to allow this historic building to remain standing.

The deadlines imposed by DEGC were artificial and arbitrary. There IS NO ALTERNATIVE in place other than demolition. Which begs the question: If the DEGC has the money to demolish the remainder of the structure, why can't they contribute said money toward DEVELOPMENT [[you know, the "D" in "DEGC") of this parcel?

The lack of willingness to commit funds to anything other than demolition, and the selective enforcement of arbitrary deadlines sends a huge message to the world, and that message is, "Welcome to Detroit. We don't want your business, and we don't give a shit."

First off, I agree with your very last statement, and that's a huge problem in this City.

I'm not saying that the DEGC did the OTSC any favors. I'm not saying that the way DEGC is handling the situation is right. I also agree that money would be better spent in developing projects instead of demolishing [[ I'm rooting for the Book-Cadillac to succeed as much as anyone).

What I am saying is that the opportunity was there for the OTSC and they didn't take advantage of it. If they've been fighting for something for 10 years, as you say, why would they not meet a deadline when they have 80% of the financing, as the say, and not attempt to pay at any time for the subsequent 90 days?

[kraig]

WTF? How you can pin DEGC's decision as the fault of OTSC is beyond me. That's like blaming a neglected child for not telling his parents he needs food and shelter.

The OTSC aren't children. The OTSC is a board made up of very talented individuals who have been trying to work on this for a number of years. They know exactly what they want, and had a new mayor, at the time, that was very receptive to their project and familiar with their organization. Hell, half of this group probably has his home phone number.

By the way, even a child will tell you when he or she is hungry and/or cold. So that dog doesn't hunt.

[kraig]

While I do appreciate Kraig's Machiavellian view of the world... it's certainly an elemental aspect of big city politicking that we of the more idealistic bent should keep in mind... it also seems there's much time to demand payments from people...and a fairly narrow point of view but a pretty wide sense of Kraig.

None of this is about me. But everyone, especially anyone connected to the OTSC, should realize that an opportunity to save the rest of the stadium is going to present itself. The OTSC needs to have themselves prepared for this opportunity.

[detourdetroit]

...and a most selfless individual who cannot stand the notion of being without the last word...

PS for the record, i wish i had included this at the end of my last post so that this observation would subsequently be made manifest without having to post this additional observation.

[kraig]

Thursday, June 4, 2009
MSNBC host, Detroit official trade shots on Tiger Stadium's fate

Louis Aguilar / The Detroit News

The brawl over Tiger Stadium had gone cable. MSNBC's host Keith Olbermann slammed Detroit economic official George Jackson as one of the "World's Worst" people on Tuesday's "Countdown" show for the city's decision to tear down the last slice of the former Major League Baseball stadium.
It took less than a day for George Jackson, president and CEO of the Detroit Economic Growth Corp., to fire back. He called the commentator a hypocrite who can't get his facts straight.
This latest dust-up continues the high emotions and accusations embedded in the drawn-out fight to save Tiger Stadium.
On Tuesday morning, a branch of the DEGC voted to tear down the last part of Tiger Stadium still standing -- the area from dugout to dugout and the actual baseball field. The board said it had little choice since the nonprofit The Old Tiger Stadium Conservancy had raised only $4 million of the $33 million needed to preserve the park by a March 1 deadline imposed by the City Council.
But the nonprofit has cried foul, saying they weren't informed of the vote and have vowed to keep fighting. Efforts to save the stadium have consistently fallen short of raising the necessary funds.
On Tuesday night, MSNBC's Olbermann dubbed Jackson the "primary villain in the scuttling of a deal to preserve Tiger Stadium." He added," Nice work, Mr. Jackson."
Jackson fired back with a letter by the end of business day. "Your vilification of me might have been entertaining to your viewers, but it was dead wrong." Jackson pointed out he didn't vote on the stadium issue on Tuesday and he's not on the board that oversees the issue.
"The stadium itself has been deteriorating for 10 years since the Tigers last played there. I have fond memories myself of games I saw there, and I led the effort for the last eight years to find a viable way to preserve the legacy of the site. ... The Old Tiger Stadium Conservancy had an ambitious plan to renovate part of the property for recreation and education, but over the course of two years they could not even come close to raising funds from the community to support it."
Jackson concluded by writing, "The conservancy made a solid play, but the game is over. It is time to move on.
"I notice that you criticize public figures regularly for hypocrisy and for playing fast and loose with the facts. Your segment about me was guilty of both."
Meanwhile, demolition equipment is being moved into what's left of the stadium.
laguilar@detnews.com [[313) 222-2760


© Copyright 2008 The Detroit News. All rights reserved.

[Novine]

"I led the effort for the last eight years to find a viable way to preserve the legacy of the site."

More self-serving lies from Geo. Jackson.

[jtf1972]

If Jackson really spent eight years trying to find a way to preserve it, then it is obvious why it has gotten nowhere.

[Fnemecek]

"I led the effort for the last eight years to find a viable way to preserve the legacy of the site."

More self-serving lies from Geo. Jackson.

Not exactly. It's just that George Jackson's idea of "a viable way to preserve the legacy" of Tiger Stadium is to demolish and use the site for a new hockey arena. He wanted to do that long before the OTSC even got started.

The problem is that the folks who live and work in Corktown are adamantly opposed to it. They want something that's smaller and with less traffic; such as the Navin Field option with offices, banquet facilities and a museum.

[kraig]

June 3, 2009


Time to let Tiger Stadium rest in rubble

By JAMIE SAMUELSEN
FREE PRESS SPECIAL WRITER Jamie Samuelsen can be heard on the morning show on WRIF-FM [[101.1) and blogs for freep.com. His opinions do not necessarily reflect those of the Detroit Free Press nor its writers. You can reach him at jamsam22@gmail.com and read more of his opinions at freep.com/jamie.
Sounds like the rest of Tiger Stadium might be on its way out. Thoughts?

The same thought I’ve had about Tiger Stadium since 1999 when the Tigers played their last game there. It’s time to move on.
I fully understand the sentimental ties that many fans and players have to the hallowed place, and how sad it must be to see it go. But to see the neglected shell it has become is even worse. I take no joy in seeing the solitary grandstand sitting there. Just as I took no joy in seeing the building collect mold and weeds in the 10 years since the Tigers stopped playing there. Memories can be very strong. But seeing an old dilapidated building doesn’t stir many in me. My parents have lived in the same house for 40 years. When they finally leave it, I’m sure I’ll still want to drive by and look at it. I’m also pretty sure that ultimately it will just make me sad, thinking about what used to be.
They will never play baseball again at the Corner. It will never, ever be the same. So I’m inclined to let it go. If they can knock down Yankee Stadium and Olympia and the Boston Garden, then they can knock down Tiger Stadium. It represents to me symbol of the stagnant nature of the city. Of course demolishing the stadium would not accomplish anything in the grand scheme of things, and I supposed that’s an argument in favor of keeping it. But I think it’s a necessary step, even if it’s not realized right away.

[ghettopalmetto]

Yeah, that's terrific. Problem is, what the "knock it down" people ignore is that the demolition of Tiger Stadium is at least as much an economic issue as it is a nostalgia issue.

The City of Detroit can't afford to plow residential streets in the winter, but it has money to tear down every empty building and create weed-filled lots. Awesome.

[kraig]

Yeah, that's terrific. Problem is, what the "knock it down" people ignore is that the demolition of Tiger Stadium is at least as much an economic issue as it is a nostalgia issue.

The City of Detroit can't afford to plow residential streets in the winter, but it has money to tear down every empty building and create weed-filled lots. Awesome.

Hell, we don't even have enough to plow business streets. Bing and Jackson are both Detroit Renaissance guys, someone there is probably the one pulling the strings on this.

[xD_Brklyn]

I'm not sure of the OTSC's goals nor of their progress, but when you visit the city there are hulking masses of abandonment left and right. When passing what's left of Tiger Stadium, I find it questionable, but take heart knowing that something different is happening in Detroit. This is a type of project that hasn't been done before in the US and it is being carried out in a region that gone through its architecural fabric with PacMan-like fever. Remarkable. If this OTSC project is successfull aesthetically and financially it would be quite an achievement, particularly given the backdrop under which it is being developed. Given the end goal, and particularly the effort given thus far, I can't see why the city would want it cut short.

[BShea]

Looks like the stadium could come down tonight:

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...FREE/906059989

[ScienceFair]

I think Jaime Samuelson and many others are missing the point of this debate, and because of that I think this issue is clouded and convoluted. The fight to save Tiger Stadium isn't based on nostalgia alone. It is based on the historical value and significance as one of the only pre-WWII ballparks still in existance. No one is spending their weekends working to restore historic Fort Wayne because of their fond memories of serving there in the late 1800s, they do it because of it's historical significance. Just like no one else is going to fight to keep Mr. Samuelson's childhood home from falling apart unless there is some legitimate historical significance to it.

And then there are the economics of the situation. New York city has valuable land and therefore it would not be a wise investment to run an empty stadium as a tourist attraction. And why can't anyone see past this arbitrary urgency of demolition? It has sat for 10 years, costing the city millions of dollars in upkeep [[see payments to Illitches) until a non-profit group decided to start paying for security, etc. There are no other plans to develop this site and therefore no reason to waste any resources on tearing it down. Meanwhile, there are countless abandoned homes and building in the neighborhoods of Detroit that are ripe with sqautters and crackheads. No one is in a hurry to tear those down.

[Novine]

Geo. Jackson funneled millions to the Ilitches while nothing was done with the stadium and Mr. Jackson failed to come forward with any legitimate redevelopment plan? That couldn't be possible.