America's Most Dangerous Cities, 2011

[English]

Detroit is toast. Bill Bonds said it correct last week when ask by Huel Perkins.."Is Detroit coming back?
No, responded Bonds....
Bonds also said Detroit is 85% black and no one wants to live in a city that is 85% black...

LOL! What if you're black? Sure there are a lot of black people who don't want to live in majority black environments, but there are at least a few who do... along with white people and people of all races. The vanguard coming into Detroit, Harlem, etc. are choosing to live in majority black areas. No, it's not millions of folks, but the trickle has become a steady flow.

Surely, Bill Bonds, we are "someone." Not "no one."

I love how in metro Detroit, "no one," "people," and "everybody" refers to a very narrow demographic. So we're back to pre-1950s thought. Newsflash: the rest of us are people, too.

[jbd441]

LOL! What if you're black? Sure there are a lot of black people who don't want to live in majority black environments, but there are at least a few who do... along with white people and people of all races. The vanguard coming into Detroit, Harlem, etc. are choosing to live in majority black areas. No, it's not millions of folks, but the trickle has become a steady flow.

Surely, Bill Bonds, we are "someone." Not "no one."

I love how in metro Detroit, "no one," "people," and "everybody" refers to a very narrow demographic. So we're back to pre-1950s thought. Newsflash: the rest of us are people, too.

Very good points. Harlem is becoming a neighborhood of million dollar condos and brownstones....and the middle class is being pushed out.

Also shouldn't the Detroit sign read "Detroit City Limit" not limits? Don't cities have one limit that extends around the city? I'm just saying....

[HistoryNotHisStory]

Racial and economic dividing lines still exist, but are slowly fading. I live in south Warren, a city that used to be "The Whitest City with a Population of Over 100,000". My neighborhood is much more diverse than it was when I moved in in 2006.

As to "p.c. friendly names". I'm younger and grew up in the suburbs. I never new this area as "Cass Corridor". Regardless of what you want to call it, it's getting much better. Jobs AND people are moving in.

Call me crazy, but I believe in Detroit. Things are changing. It will take decades to get to where I want it to be, and it might not happen in my lifetime. Detroit will be a very a different place when I leave this Earth.

In 20 to 30 years, Blacks and Hispancis will be the vast majority of citizens in the United States.

Yes Virginia, America will be changed.

With the increasing growth of interacial marriages, America will become color blind.
We will be a nation of neopolitan comospolitan people. Our faces will look like the faces of Brazil.

Corporation know this and makes sure they market their products to Blacks and Hispanics.

[rhythmc]

Very good points. Harlem is becoming a neighborhood of million dollar condos and brownstones....and the middle class is being pushed out.

Also shouldn't the Detroit sign read "Detroit City Limit" not limits? Don't cities have one limit that extends around the city? I'm just saying....

I'm interested in understanding what "middle class" means to everyone. I mean, it seems that the term has a different meaning depending on who you ask. I think it's just a different part of the middle class.

The people with greater means were not the first to move to Harlem or really anywhere in area that have become revitalized. It's always the artsy types or those who have less aversion to living among people who don't look like themselves. However, once that demo builds up, then is when you have the million $ condo class move in.

Also, doesn't Detroit have multiple city limits due to the borders with Hamtramck and Highland Park?

[Autoracks]

Could only imagine how empty some parts of town would look from google maps type satellite imagery if EVERY abandoned structure was removed. Parts of the city would look like anything but city.

But let me say this. I wouldnt want to live in a majority Bill Bonds city either.

[iheartthed]

I'm interested in understanding what "middle class" means to everyone. I mean, it seems that the term has a different meaning depending on who you ask. I think it's just a different part of the middle class.

The people with greater means were not the first to move to Harlem or really anywhere in area that have become revitalized. It's always the artsy types or those who have less aversion to living among people who don't look like themselves. However, once that demo builds up, then is when you have the million $ condo class move in.

Also, doesn't Detroit have multiple city limits due to the borders with Hamtramck and Highland Park?

This might be true for Williamsburg and other parts of Brooklyn and lower Manhattan, but Harlem was never a hot spot for artists. Harlem gentrified because there was nowhere else in Manhattan to build out, especially due to the strict zoning laws of the more affluent neighborhoods just to the south of Harlem. Harlem's appeal is that it offers the Manhattan experience with the not-quite-Manhattan prices.

[Patrick]

God damnit Detroit

[Detroitdave]

We had this discussion the last time Forbes released this list. Notice how Detroit is by far the largest MSA listed? Detroit-Livonia-Dearborn is a Metropolitan subdivision of the Detroit MSA. The census bureau breaks up larger MSAs into these subdivisions for statistical purposes.

Forbes just cleverly found a way to put Detroit on a list that would otherwise get ignored [[how many people really care about the crime rate in Springfield, IL?). The only reason Detroit is even on this list is because they cherry-picked a subsection of Metro Detroit out of the official definition of the Detroit MSA.

I completely agree ! they only used Detroit and Wayne County . If they would have added the TRUE Detroit Metro area , they would have used Oakland and Macomb Counties .
Using this areas in the MSA would bring Metro Detroit in line with many other major Metro area .
This is simply more of the same BS, Detroit is a big scary place, are they just trying to sell more add space and keep the status the same. Is this the same company that owns Somerset Collection ? and the Lofts at merchant row ? What gives ? I know the city of Detroit is not the most desirable place to live , but come on ! We as Americans are so quick to judge and not do a little homework . It's easy for folks in Fairfax county ,Virginia , Orange country, Ca, Dallas, TX , North Carolina whatever "safe" place to judge. Keep building those "business parks " and "subdivisions" We are doing a bang up job on building a "safe" nation .

[brizee]

LOL! What if you're black? Sure there are a lot of black people who don't want to live in majority black environments, but there are at least a few who do... along with white people and people of all races. The vanguard coming into Detroit, Harlem, etc. are choosing to live in majority black areas. No, it's not millions of folks, but the trickle has become a steady flow.

Surely, Bill Bonds, we are "someone." Not "no one."

I love how in metro Detroit, "no one," "people," and "everybody" refers to a very narrow demographic. So we're back to pre-1950s thought. Newsflash: the rest of us are people, too.

That's always fun.

The whole nonperson thing is still amazing everytime I hear it from people who get a little too comfortable/forget I'm there and apologize right after.

I'm doing the right thing.

College educated, tax-paying, doing my part. But I just don't exist.

Noone lives in the city/it should be nuked and a Walmart placed on the ashes.

I'm sick of having to be a model or some sort of trailblazer for young black men. I'm sick of being called stupid to my face because I went to DPS and I'm sitting in the same fucking university class room you are.
I'm sick of being told what's what by people who spend 10-40 hours a week here.

Fuck this place. Not all the time but GODDAMNIT sometimes.

[313WX]

Bill Bonds is 100% right though, even though the way he said it is politically incorrect to the masses.

Most people [[with a few exceptions as revealed in this thread) really don't want to live in Detroit right now. Many of the folks who do live in the city are stuck due to unfortunate circumstances beyond their control. Outside of Midtown and Downtown, which is irrelevant to the perosn who's trying to make sure their children are fed and have a roof over their head, much of the city is a hellhole, or getting there. Heck, even middle and upper class blacks don't even want to deal with blacks in Detroit anymore, as revealed in the last one or two census counts.It's not really so much about race though, more so the culture in the city that's so far from the norm [[true the suburbs aren't much better, at least they are sufficiently functional).

And I think we're taking his response to "Is Detriot coming back?" out of context. He's absolutely right that Detroit will never be the Detroit we know/knew of during the past century in the future. Does that mean that new Detroit can't be beautiful in its own way? That remains to be seen [[I doubt it though, personally, too many hurdles).

[SWMAP]

I am often asked the question Huel Perkins asked of Bill Bonds. My relatives ask, people I meet when I travel. I guess because I am the last living soul of all my relatives [[a family that traces it origins in Detroit to mariners who came with Cadillac), friends, schoolmates, teaching colleagues, etc.
I am one of the people who once thought the investment of my life, time and taxes here would be a good investment, that Detroit would "come back" to good neighborhoods & neighbors, successful schools, that supermarkets & stores would eventually return, etc. But now I do answer that Detroit will not be back or be anything. The trajectory is always downward here. I would never suggest that young people invest here- it would be a poor investment. For every step forward, there are a dozen steps back. Where once Brightmoor was the poster neighborhood for Blight and blight seemed solvable, now more and more neighborhoods are past the point of no return.
I really think that Black people want to live and to run the City in a way that not only is unacceptable to most anyone else not Black, and so they have it, so they have ruined street after street and it's past the tipping point.

[brizee]

I really think that Black people want to live and to run the City in a way that not only is unacceptable to most anyone else not Black, and so they have it, so they have ruined street after street and it's past the tipping point.

Jesus tittyfucking christ.

[illwill]

Detroit is toast. Bill Bonds said it correct last week when ask by Huel Perkins.."Is Detroit coming back?
No, responded Bonds....
Bonds also said Detroit is 85% black and no one wants to live in a city that is 85% black....

Also, can we stop renaming Detroit areas by new p.c. friendly names? Midtown? It's always been the Cass Corridor to me. Dont try to repackage Detroit. Just accept it for what it is.

i completely agree!

[detroitpride313]

I really think that Black people want to live and to run the City in a way that not only is unacceptable to most anyone else not Black, and so they have it, so they have ruined street after street and it's past the tipping point.

...uh what is that supposed to mean? Also, you can't just label all black people saying that we go and ruin every street. It's not black people that are are ruining streets it's "ghetto" people with a "ghetto" mentality. I'm black and I'm not trying to go around destroying stuff. I live in Detroit and I am trying to do everything I can to better my community so please don't label a whole group of people based on the actions of some people. Finally, why are you complaining about this in the first place? If you wanted more diversity then you should blame the racist white people who started the "white flight." Perhaps if they would have stayed and tried to get along with the blacks who were moving in the city then things would be different. Perhaps there could have been an understanding between whites and blacks in the city, which could have eventually lead to a more diverse community and diverse leadership. So please if you want to blame anyone for the large population of blacks in Detroit blame the whites who abandoned the city.

[mwilbert]

In 20 to 30 years, Blacks and Hispancis will be the vast majority of citizens in the United States.

Unless current trends change, they won't. Under 40% of population in 2050.

[Occurrence]

How many of these lists come out per year?

[softailrider]

That's always fun.

The whole nonperson thing is still amazing everytime I hear it from people who get a little too comfortable/forget I'm there and apologize right after.

I'm doing the right thing.

College educated, tax-paying, doing my part. But I just don't exist.

Noone lives in the city/it should be nuked and a Walmart placed on the ashes.

I'm sick of having to be a model or some sort of trailblazer for young black men. I'm sick of being called stupid to my face because I went to DPS and I'm sitting in the same fucking university class room you are.
I'm sick of being told what's what by people who spend 10-40 hours a week here.

Fuck this place. Not all the time but GODDAMNIT sometimes.

Sorry, while I don't live in Detroit anymore, I've been working there for 32 years. I probably see way more of the city then the vast majority of people who do live there. It's impossible for me to deny reality - this cities neighborhoods looks worse now than at any other point I can remember. The area around the stadiums [[Foxtown) looks great, Palmer Woods, Indian Village and the like seem to be holding up fine. Woodbridge has had a resurgence and is looking way better. However,most of the working class neighborhoods, where regular people would reside are mostly terrible with a few exceptions.

That's not to say that, there are some people who could easily afford to move but are happy living in a blighted out area for whatever reasons.

[Barbara Nadel]

Statistics and labels are dangerous things. I studied statistics at university and so I know how many ways they can be interpreted and manipulated. My home borough of Newham in London is apparently the 3rd worst place to live the UK right now. Makes you wonder why my government is choosing to build the Olympic stadium in Newham. On the one hand they talk about regeneration and on the other there are now a million jokes about how the Olympic athletes are going to have to run really fast to dodge the bullets. Who the hell comes up with these labels anyway?

[iheartthed]

I really think that Black people want to live and to run the City in a way that not only is unacceptable to most anyone else not Black, and so they have it, so they have ruined street after street and it's past the tipping point.

Wow, oh my.

[rhythmc]

However,most of the working class neighborhoods, where regular people would reside are mostly terrible with a few exceptions.

Based on stats that x% people in Detroit are unemployed and y% live in poverty, I would bet that many of the working-class neighborhoods fit the working-class label in the past and are now lower-class/impoverished these days.

[rondinjp]

My feeling is that we hit bottom about 5-10 years ago. Downtown and Midtown are getting better. Some neighborhoods have stabilized [[while others are still falling apart though).

Jobs are moving into the city. Yes, the many of the same suburbanites that held the jobs in the suburbs still hold them now that they've moved. However, now as new jobs are created and positions open up there's going to be tremendous opportunity for folks that actually live in the city and are seeking employment. Also, many folks are moving to Downtown and Midtown to follow their jobs that moved.

I know it's nowhere where it need to be, but I think things are starting to change.

I used to feel that things were getting better about 10 years ago, but since then we have been on a downward trajectory that I see no signs of stopping. Hell, looking at the paper each day illustrates how bad the city is becoming. While we argue this happens in "other cities" around the US, it doesn't. There is no other cities where in their best areas e.g., New Center, Midtown, Downtown, you have murders and crime this prevalent. I wish and continually hope that I'm wrong, but then I still see stories like this:

http://tinyurl.com/6hro7zk

[SWMAP]

So please if you want to blame anyone for the large population of blacks in Detroit blame the whites who abandoned the city.

I used to agree with you. But not any more. I don't have children and so never had to expose children to such dysfunction, such mindless violence, such blight in their hometown. Now I think that those who left made the right decision for their families.

Last night the adult unemployed grandsons of my black neighbors in SW Detroit came out at 9:00 PM and turned a boom-box on to booming, echoing club music and practiced a loud dance routine in the street until after 10:30 PM. Amid shouts, stomping, booming music, the sexy dancing went on, repeating the routine for 90 minutes.

I am just home from the hospital and would have wanted to rest - but no rest possible. Children have school. Others have to work in the morning., as I do. Some people just want peace in their homes.

I think that's just a little iconic moment for me. My neighbors have a culture that doesn't include work, includes sucking off the grandparents social security, club culture, inability to keep the utilities on, unpaid taxes, lack of respect from all in that house for other people's cultures that do include getting up in the early morning for work and school, etc. I guess this is the diversity that you think I should support - I just can't take it and I repeat that the people who moved away made the right decision for their families who don't need to support all this dysfunction

[detroitpride313]

I think that's just a little iconic moment for me. My neighbors have a culture that doesn't include work, includes sucking off the grandparents social security, club culture, inability to keep the utilities on, unpaid taxes, lack of respect from all in that house for other people's cultures that do include getting up in the early morning for work and school, etc. I guess this is the diversity that you think I should support - I just can't take it and I repeat that the people who moved away made the right decision for their families who don't need to support all this dysfunction

I am not 100% percent sure of what you are saying, but if you are trying to insinuate that black culture is epitomized by the behavior demonstrated by your neighbors then you are dead WRONG! I am black and I know plenty of other black people who are not like the people you described. Just because you have had bad experiences with certain people doesn't give you the right to label a whole race of people. I've had experiences with white people being racist, but I don't by any means label the whole race of white people to be racist...that would be stupid and unfair. I'm sorry that you live by people who act like that and I agree that you shouldn't have to live like that [[and most people including blacks don't want to live like that), but you need to recognize that their behavior is "ghetto" and not "black."

The only reason I responded to your previous comment is because it was insensitive and border line racist [[I don't know exactly what you meant by it and that's why I asked you about it...and of course you just ignored my question). I disagree with your views on Detroit and how you feel it will never improve, but that's not even what I am trying to challenge you about. All I want to know is what you meant by, "I really think that Black people want to live and to run the City in a way that not only is unacceptable to most anyone else not Black, and so they have it, so they have ruined street after street and it's past the tipping point" so please just answer my question.

[SWMAP]

"I really think that Black people want to live and to run the City in a way that not only is unacceptable to most anyone else not Black, and so they have it, so they have ruined street after street and it's past the tipping point"

I think that the majority Black culture is just not attractive to most non-black families [[so now we are past the tipping point of possible diverse neighborhoods) Except for a relative few non-mainstream thinkers [[and I was one of those once!) without children to worry about, Detroit will not be the diverse city you hope for.

I think that "diversity" is a dis-credited ideal. This from someone who once championed it. I admit that I am very disillusioned. It's just too hard to keep a good attitude about Detroit when you look around. From the neighborhoods to the endless corruptions in City hall, its just a rat-hole of a City, this "blackest" city in America and proud of it.

[DetroitPole]

So please if you want to blame anyone for the large population of blacks in Detroit blame the whites who abandoned the city.

I used to agree with you. But not any more. I don't have children and so never had to expose children to such dysfunction, such mindless violence, such blight in their hometown. Now I think that those who left made the right decision for their families.

Last night the adult unemployed grandsons of my black neighbors in SW Detroit came out at 9:00 PM and turned a boom-box on to booming, echoing club music and practiced a loud dance routine in the street until after 10:30 PM. Amid shouts, stomping, booming music, the sexy dancing went on, repeating the routine for 90 minutes.

I am just home from the hospital and would have wanted to rest - but no rest possible. Children have school. Others have to work in the morning., as I do. Some people just want peace in their homes.

I think that's just a little iconic moment for me. My neighbors have a culture that doesn't include work, includes sucking off the grandparents social security, club culture, inability to keep the utilities on, unpaid taxes, lack of respect from all in that house for other people's cultures that do include getting up in the early morning for work and school, etc. I guess this is the diversity that you think I should support - I just can't take it and I repeat that the people who moved away made the right decision for their families who don't need to support all this dysfunction

It is so prevalant. It is literally everywhere in the city now and in the suburbs. You cannot go to any neighborhood, any block, and get away from that kind of behavior in the city.
I'm not going to say it's a black thing. I have good black neighbors. But that kind of ghetto behavior is extremely prevalent in African-American society. That is a problem.
I realize all black people, like any race, are not some cohesive unit that attend meetings and agree on behavioral guidelines. However, I see is plenty of racial solidarity in the black community EXCEPT in the cases when some corrective behavior would be nice. That is my issue. If my friends or associates are doing something destructive I let them know. And we all know racial lines in social circles are still extremely monolithic.
We recently had a woman who sat on her porch and screamed obscenities at a neighbor. I had never met the lovely people, but they're friends with other neighbors. Why did I have to be the one to walk over there and tell this middle-aged woman that this behavior was not acceptable for our block? Where were the other neighbors, who are nice people with nice homes, but don't really seem to care about their friend acting completely uncivilized and essentially ruining the block? I also had to tell them to turn down a stereo. I live down the street and I could hear every word in my living room. Luckily they're not the violent type and they complied. Luckily.
And so what is the solution here? Education? How much education does one really need to not barbeque on the front porch and scream at people? To not blare the radio so everyone in a square mile radius can hear it? To not shit in their own crate? So now these types of people are moving to Harper Woods, which has better schools than Detroit, and USED to be a safe city, but I don't see anything improving. When does it end? Are these shitty, ghetto people just going to keep moving from block to block in the region, driving out decent people until not even they can stand to live there?
I should not have to be the safety patrol alone.