Occupy Detroit

[Ravine]

No, and I didn't suggest otherwise. Perhaps I'm as obsessive about details as you are about leaving out a pesky little 'h'? Was Richard Nixon pardoned during Nixon's administration or the Gerald Ford administration? I'd suggest the latter though I believe most of Nixon's cabinet and appointees were still in place, except for those under indictment.



To clarify: the smart-ass "Nice try, thanks for playing" comment was Mikeg's, the question mark was mine. But your imperious suggestion was duly noted, thanks for sharing.

I see that Mikeg fired off the initial bit of condescension, but your smarmy "thanks for sharing" demonstrates that you have a condescending air, of your own, which you combined with an incorrect statement.

[epiphany]

I read your one of your later posts also and I sure didn't mean to insinuate that you're lazy. And I do understand that people need to take out loans. I'm not sure what you mean by "people like me". I'm just a parent trying to help out his kids. My kids are going part time because they don't want to take out loans. I went to Macomb and Wayne. It took me 8 years to obtain an associate's degree and another 8 years to obtain a bachelor's degree. Hell, I should be a doctor!

"People like you" are the ones that refuse to acknowledge the current problem for what it is and instead throw blame at those being hurt by the system. BTW, if your kids are going part-time then SURELY you know that going part-time usually disqualifies you from the majority of scholarships, grants, etc. I wouldnt be able to go to school at all if I was only going part-time. I don't know when you went to school, but you should compare tuition costs now to tuition costs then and then come back and talk to me. I represent a large majority of college students that are being screwed over by ridiculous tuition costs and when you talk crap about ME you are talking crap about every one else in my situation and everyone else that is worse off than me. And, whether you believe it or not, that is the majority of students at the moment.

Top that off with problems like grade inflation and the overall devaluing of a college education and you have a formula for some pretty pissed off students, and rightfully so. You can continue living in your dreamworld if you wish.

[Det_ard]

"People like you" are the ones that refuse to acknowledge the current problem for what it is and instead throw blame at those being hurt by the system. BTW, if your kids are going part-time then SURELY you know that going part-time usually disqualifies you from the majority of scholarships, grants, etc. I wouldnt be able to go to school at all if I was only going part-time. I don't know when you went to school, but you should compare tuition costs now to tuition costs then and then come back and talk to me. I represent a large majority of college students that are being screwed over by ridiculous tuition costs and when you talk crap about ME you are talking crap about every one else in my situation and everyone else that is worse off than me. And, whether you believe it or not, that is the majority of students at the moment.

Top that off with problems like grade inflation and the overall devaluing of a college education and you have a formula for some pretty pissed off students, and rightfully so. You can continue living in your dreamworld if you wish.

So why don't you direct your anger and your protests at the Universities? They're the source of grade inflation, devaluing of college education [[via admitting unprepared students,offering fluff degrees and lowering the bar so that "college grad" today doesn't mean much, absent a tie to a prestigious university or a universally acknowledged rigorous degree in a field like engineering or the hard sciences.) Occupy the universities, not to protest Wall Street or capitalism, but to protest the administration of the universities. I've been scratching my head as to why the universities are getting a pass from their angry students/grads.

[MissingDetroit]

"Please do be aware that the media is largely unsympathetic to the movement, and that there are plenty of people posting disinformation about what is happening. So far as I am aware, the only systematic damage being done at these events is by overzealous police,"

Eh? The media and various officials have been extremely sympathetic to the movement, from mayors right up to the white house, and you seriously cannot say that the New York Times for example is "unsympathetic," As far as systematic damage, this is what I have heard about just today:

--Rape in Philly and arrest. Also, the occupation is on an area scheduled to be developed, keeping 1000 people from working.
--Chapel Hill takeover of an auto dealership bldg with police response and 20 arrests
--Murder in Oakland with police response, obviously.
--Portland, 3 men arrested w/explosives, gas masks and helmets by police.
--New York, area small businesses estimate lost revenue of $500,000 over 53 days, not including cost of toilet paper, cleaning supplies and repairs to the bathrooms used by the campers. Also, the vandalization of the 9/11 Memorial.
-- Harvard, which prohibits anyone without Harvard ID and the press from participating.

No offense to you, but please don't tell me how you think I should view this [[your comment about what I should "seem" to want). Please don't assume I am "servile" or that anyone is running "roughshod" over me. I'll continue to read the Occupy website from time to time but really, they should consider getting a more "normal" writer for it and cut the revolutionary jargon.

[animatedmartian]

http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/dpp/news...ht-20111114-ms

Occupiers had a 30 day permit from the Parks and Recreation Department that was retroactively given to them, but under law the City Council should have approved it. That's why council members will have the option of doing that on Tuesday morning now instead. It appears several of them, including Pugh and Joann Watson, are in favor of letting the group stay another 30 days.

However, the Occupiers aren't looking to stay in Grand Circus Park. In fact, they've already secured a 5,000 square foot building somewhere in Detroit where they plan to move. They're simply looking for some time to dismantle what they've put up and say they need just about two weeks.

[Downtown Lady]

As far as systematic damage, this is what I have heard about just today:

--Rape in Philly and arrest. Also, the occupation is on an area scheduled to be developed, keeping 1000 people from working.
--Chapel Hill takeover of an auto dealership bldg with police response and 20 arrests
--Murder in Oakland with police response, obviously.
--Portland, 3 men arrested w/explosives, gas masks and helmets by police.
--New York, area small businesses estimate lost revenue of $500,000 over 53 days, not including cost of toilet paper, cleaning supplies and repairs to the bathrooms used by the campers. Also, the vandalization of the 9/11 Memorial.
-- Harvard, which prohibits anyone without Harvard ID and the press from participating.

Do you have links to any of this?

[Scottathew]

Do you have links to any of this?

http://news.google.com/

Search for the various stories, I spot checked a couple and was able to find them.

[Danny]

PROLETARIAN NEWS!!!

My Comrades! stay tuned. The Detroit City Council is considering letting the 99 Percenters stay in Grand Circus Park for a extra 2 weeks. If they don't let us stay, Roosevelt Park could be the next proposed occupying base. One park or another we shall occupy any area and spread our socialist message to those fat cats in corporate banks and world governments. We are the 99 Percent are hungry for jobs, housing, education and medical care. We shall get it even we the reform government and strip customer confidence away from corporations. Our Mantra will be heard across the Earth, my brothers and sisters! Occupy every last city. Don't let world governments sent the goon squads to destoy us. We the 99 Percents will be victorious and human society will be restored back to communal living.


WORD FROM THE STREET PROPHET

For the 99 Percenters and the Spirit of Guy Fawkes, Neda, I miss you so.

[Detroitnerd]

"Please do be aware that the media is largely unsympathetic to the movement, and that there are plenty of people posting disinformation about what is happening. So far as I am aware, the only systematic damage being done at these events is by overzealous police,"

Eh? The media and various officials have been extremely sympathetic to the movement, from mayors right up to the white house, and you seriously cannot say that the New York Times for example is "unsympathetic,"

To take your example of the New York Times:

http://www.thenation.com/blog/163626...py-wall-street

And that's to say nothing of the New York Post:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...-coverage.html

Or Detroit's Nolan Finley:

http://detnews.com/article/20111009/OPINION03/110090308/Column--Can’t-wait-for-Occupy-Detroit

In fact, for the first few weeks, the mainstream media largely IGNORED the protests [[as opposed to, say, the Tea Party, which they covered intensely) that were springing up all over the world. Then they ridiculed them. Only now, grudgingly, to they cover it. To their relief, the Paterno controversy has given them leave to chatter on about something else.

As for the various officials, they initially thought they, too, could ignore the protests. Then they started commenting:

Mitt Romney: “I think it’s dangerous, this class warfare.”

Herman Cain: "“Don’t blame Wall Street, don’t blame the big banks, if you don’t have a job and you’re not rich, blame yourself!”

Obama, perhaps the most cynical of the politicians, distances himself while saying through a spokesperson that the administration “understands” why people are frustrated.

All those Democrats and union leaders should be viewed with suspicion anyway when they sound "sympathetic." Do you think they want to give up their power as arbiters of the alleged "left" to a grass-roots group of activists? No way, man. No way.

As far as systematic damage, this is what I have heard about just today:

--Rape in Philly and arrest.

That is an alleged sexual assault. And I take issue with your statement that this is "systematic." What is systematic about somebody allegedly raping somebody in Philly? Is that what Occupy is for? As for the mayor, he has angrily blasted Occupy Philly. One of those sympathetic officials, I presume? You can't have it both ways.

Also, the occupation is on an area scheduled to be developed, keeping 1000 people from working.

They are considering whether to leave the area or stay there. Nobody is stopping anybody from working. Construction on the Dilworth project could start this month or next, you know.

http://articles.philly.com/2011-11-1...ect-protesters

--Chapel Hill takeover of an auto dealership bldg with police response and 20 arrests

So, protesters enter a vacant building and hang signs in it. Vacant. And look at the photo of the police response:

http://www.newsobserver.com/2011/11/...-franklin.html

First of all, where is the systematic damage you claimed? This is protest, not vandalism. And look at the overwhelming response arrayed against these protesters. All to protect a brick and cinderblock building owned by an out-of-town businessman, and which has stood empty for many years. Hmmmm...

--Murder in Oakland with police response, obviously.

This was outside the Oakland encampment. He was shot outside a train station exit near the park. Is this part of the systematic damage you were talking about? I am surprised to hear that, given that the only "systematic damage" I've heard about there would be the riot police who marched on the peaceful protesters a few weeks ago, throwing concussion grenades into a camp with women, children, vets and the elderly. They shot a two-tour Marine in the face with a grenade, then another flash-bang into the crowd trying to aid him. He's still hospitalized, you know. Then, when they cleared the park again recently, people didn't resist. Some people refused to leave and were arrested. That is called nonviolent civil disobedience [[Ghandi, Rosa Parks, Thoreau), not "systematic damage."

--Portland, 3 men arrested w/explosives, gas masks and helmets by police.

Oh, yes. The three kids who "claimed" to be from Occupy Portland. [[Almost every news report says "claimed.") You don't suspect anything at all there? And, again, where is the "systematic damage"? This could easily be a few pot-smoking dicks with fireworks trying to blame their bullshit on something else.

--New York, area small businesses estimate lost revenue of $500,000 over 53 days, not including cost of toilet paper, cleaning supplies and repairs to the bathrooms used by the campers. Also, the vandalization of the 9/11 Memorial.

This is more of your "systematic damage"? As for the 9/11 memorial, read it: No link.

http://www.salon.com/2011/11/14/911_...ism/singleton/

-- Harvard, which prohibits anyone without Harvard ID and the press from participating.

Don't understand your point here. Although I do hear it gave a boost to the workers in the midst of renegotiating the university’s custodial contract. Neat!

No offense to you, but please don't tell me how you think I should view this [[your comment about what I should "seem" to want). Please don't assume I am "servile" or that anyone is running "roughshod" over me. I'll continue to read the Occupy website from time to time but really, they should consider getting a more "normal" writer for it and cut the revolutionary jargon.

No offense to you, but perhaps you should read more widely and do a bit more thinking. Unless your prejudices prohibit that sort of thought ...

[maxx]

RE: What's wrong with the system

Charlie Rose had Lawrence Lessig on his show last night. Lessig's latest book is about the financial corruption of the gov..

from amazon.com RE: Republic Lost by Lawrence Lessig

"Lessig explores the concept of a government responsible to the PEOPLE, as the Constitution calls for, and how the current system of campaign finance has warped it so much toward being a government responsible to the CONTRIBUTORS that even the Supreme Court used those words [[in the infamous Citizens United corporation-as-a-person decision). The picture he draws of moneyed influence is truly appalling--all the more so as the influence is almost never overt bribery, but often just hints and signals [[as in "if you aren't able to vote for X, I'll have to contribute $1,000,000 to your opponent").

Can it be cured? Lessig offers several possible prescriptions, the most serious of which is calling for a Constitutional Convention,.."

Anyone noticing Citizens United already working for coal and oil as they lanbast Obama for Solyndra.? I guess he didn't kowtow to them enough.

[antongast]

Here's some more of the media being "sympathetic to the movement." DetroitYes regulars might recognize the byline...

[bopcity]

Here's some more of the media being "sympathetic to the movement." DetroitYes regulars might recognize the byline...

Shea lost me with the ludicrous "Obamaville," describing Occupy as an "anti-capitalist movement" is nonsense and Shea should be intelligent enough to understand nuance.

This article's nothing more than another dismissive agenda-driven, right-wing rant, straight from the conservative template. It's littered with the usual clichés and Frank Luntz approved buzz phrases; "clad in a red Che Guevara baseball cap", "midnight drum circles" "urinating and defecating in the park", "clouds of marijuana smoke," blah de flippin' dah.

I thought Shea was a serious journalist with some semblance of integrity; apparently I was mistaken. Perhaps these kids can explain this movement in terms he might understand?



Addendum: Anyone bother to check the Daily Caller's About Us page?

Founded by Tucker Carlson, a 20-year veteran of print and broadcast media, and Neil Patel, former chief policy adviser to Vice President Cheney, The Daily Caller is a 24-hour news site providing original reporting from an experienced team of professional reporters, thought-provoking commentary and breaking news.

Need I say more?

[Detroitnerd]

I guess that's one way to run a news organization ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDBIn...eature=related

[Ravine]

Yeah, the snide use of a term such as "Obamaville" serves only to identify the piece as being, as bopcity wrote, "agenda-driven."
But, Shea is like that.

[Searay215]

Moving on.....the Occupy Detroit has been given one week extension to clean up the park and move on. http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2011/11/...it-protesters/

I have no problem with people protesting, that is one of the freedoms and rights I served time in the military defending, however living in tents and attracting the homeles is quite another thing. Now according to the article,[[see above) they plan on moving indoors soon....WTF They have in my mind officially jumped the shark and have moved from a protest to a place for the homeless to live for the winter.....

Disagree with me all you want, but if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck....guess what? Its a duck!!

[Downtown Lady]

What's the matter with the homeless? What's the matter with them having a warm place to sleep for the winter? If a by-product of the Occupy protests is that some people are sheltered from the cold, that's good.

You have made quite a point of discussing how much you love your warm house and your tv; while you feel grateful for what you have, how about not begrudging the homeless a warm place to sleep? The homeless are people too. The movement is about the 99%, not the middle 98% [[excluding the bottom 1%).

[Searay215]

What's the matter with the homeless? What's the matter with them having a warm place to sleep for the winter? If a by-product of the Occupy protests is that some people are sheltered from the cold, that's good.

You have made quite a point of discussing how much you love your warm house and your tv; while you feel grateful for what you have, how about not begrudging the homeless a warm place to sleep? The homeless are people too. The movement is about the 99%, not the middle 98% [[excluding the bottom 1%).

I have nothing against the homeless, nor do I begrudge them of a place to stay......In case you forgot what my post has to do with it is the OCCUPY PART, Not the homeless...... It had to do with city giving them 1 week to clean up the park. As I stated earlier I have nothing against protesting. Making a incampment in the middle of Detroit is a different story.

If you going to take me to task have the decency to get the facts straight and make a real point.

[antongast]

I thought Shea was a serious journalist with some semblance of integrity;

I take it this is the first piece of his writing you've actually read from start to finish, then.

[Downtown Lady]

If you're going to take me to task have the decency to get the facts straight

What facts? I was just stating how I interpreted your post, with the thinly-veiled disgust directed at the homeless. If that is not at all what you meant, then maybe be a little more careful in how you phrase things so that nobody will misunderstand you.

[Ravine]

Searay, I think I get your original point and the distinction which you just clarified, but I have never bought into this old saw:

"...if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck....guess what? Its a duck!!"

*ahem*
The general appearance of a duck, and the familiar quacking noise, may be traits which all ducks have, but it doesn't work the other way; they do not necessarily indicate the presence of an actual duck.
Sometimes, in fact, one may be so self-insistent on the presence of a duck that the object under observation begins to look, to one, as a duck looks, and the natural, unique sound of that object, without bearing any true likeness to the sound of a duck, may seem to take on the quacking noise which one associates with ducks.
Think of this phenomenon not as the well-known "self-fulfilling prophecy" so much as a "self-fulfilling projection." If you go into the observation utterly convinced that the object is a duck, you're pretty damned likely to perceive it as being a duck. It could be a goddam moose, and you'd probably still cognitively record, "duck."
And, it becomes trickier than that. Even knowing, for certain, that it's a duck doesn't automatically tell you very much. Every duck is unique.
The irascible and generally intemperate Donald would not graciously forgive being mistaken for the somewhat charming, but severely socially-dysfunctional, Daffy, even though both are hilariously amusing ducks.
And Darkwing, while arguably much better-adjusted, socially, than Donald or Daffy, is just not all that funny.
Which brings me to my mercifully-final point: They don't make ducks like they usedta.

[stromberg2]

^^^^
Fucking classic, Ravine!

Stromberg2

[Jimaz]

... Disagree with me all you want, but if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck....guess what? Its a duck!!

All I hear from that is quacking.

[Ravine]

^^^^
Fucking classic, Ravine!

Stromberg2

Why, thank you, kind sir.
Having taken a gander at the general direction being taken by the tone of some of the postings herein, I thought I might goose some of the participants.
I do sord of hope that the flock took a moment to brace themselves.
Quacketty-goddam-quack.

[Danny]

The Contract of the American Dream in Ten Points [[The International Economic Dream) would be the greatest mantra to the 99 Percenters.

Invest infrastructure

Create futuristic jobs. Job training programs must be available to all people.

Free Public Global Education for all

Free Universal Global Health Care for all

Fair wages to for all workers; Unions must be established to all corporations and proletarian companies.

Social Securities and other social services must be secured.

Restore fair taxation with representation for all people base on the equal percentage to the highest income. Taxation is ONLY meant for nation infrastructure.


Wall Street and other international investment firms must be taxed with representation. No reduction on any percentage based on higher income.


Allied help for foreign wars will not be used until declaration of world wars persists. Diplomacies and peace treaties must be established to prevent rumors of foreign wars and terrorism. Global armed forces and international militia groups must be formed to protect the Earth against sudden paranormal and extra-terrestrial invasions.


I like this socialist mantra. It may happen within a 100 years.

[Lowell]

On the march today, just now returning to their encampment.