Occupy Detroit

[epiphany]

And yeah, I do think that college should be attainable without loans when you get grants and scholarships... but it is STILL too expensive. THAT is the problem.

[epiphany]

And to all of those whining about how I should be able to make 70k a year without a degree, please enlighten me on how I can do that... because the reason that I am in school IN THE FIRST PLACE is because I was 25 and working a minimum wage job and unable to find work doing anything else. And it IS NOT because I am lazy, so get off that nonsense.

Damn, Id be happy to get paid 15 dollars an hour AFTER I graduate. You have no idea.

[adamjab19]

SeaRay215 is wanting to put a blanket statement on everyone about not having a degree and still being able to make enough money. But I have freinds with and without degrees succeeding and struggling no matter what. If you want to be a teacher you are going to have to pick a college to get a BS degree and then a masters degree. If you want to be an architect you are going to be going to an expensive school and then stil need a masters degree as well. I am glad people in the past have decided to go this route because otherwise we would not have teachers or architects. Overall sure you can make, with a little luck I must say, with out a BS degree if you find that unique niche to sell something. But still the job field generally requires a BS and whos to make that goal, dream or fact unattainable?

[Scottathew]

It's sad to think that soon these people won't be able to go camping anymore and might have to start looking for a job again.

[Searay215]

SeaRay215 is wanting to put a blanket statement on everyone about not having a degree and still being able to make enough money. But I have freinds with and without degrees succeeding and struggling no matter what. If you want to be a teacher you are going to have to pick a college to get a BS degree and then a masters degree. If you want to be an architect you are going to be going to an expensive school and then stil need a masters degree as well. I am glad people in the past have decided to go this route because otherwise we would not have teachers or architects. Overall sure you can make, with a little luck I must say, with out a BS degree if you find that unique niche to sell something. But still the job field generally requires a BS and whos to make that goal, dream or fact unattainable?

Sorry but I disagree with you.....what it really comes down to is Wanting to succeed. My daughter does not have a BS, in fact only has a Associates degree and that is in Automotive body design which has NOTHING to to with the feild she is currently in and yet was able to get a Senior Account Manger job at Mircosoft and Yahoo. And believe me getting a job at either of those is NOT easy and yet without a BS she managed to do it.

Again.....if you can't afford to be a teacher then find something else you might want to pursue...I still think it comes down to Wanting to succeed. If you are stuggling, then you have not reached your full potential. There are ways....you need to find one. You can't expect everything to come to you.

Yes if you have a specific field that you want like a teacher [[low pay) or architect then a 4 year degree is needed. You are now making a blanket statement that every field needs to have a BS to get anywhere.

But the whole point of my very first post was that these college grads now want a free pass on their obigation to pay the loans back that got them their degrees. Which as I said there should be NO FREE passes on repayment of your obligation.

[adamjab19]

Sorry but I disagree with you.....what it really comes down to is Wanting to succeed. My daughter does not have a BS, in fact only has a Associates degree and that is in Automotive body design which has NOTHING to to with the feild she is currently in and yet was able to get a Senior Account Manger job at Mircosoft and Yahoo. And believe me getting a job at either of those is NOT easy and yet without a BS she managed to do it.

Again.....if you can't afford to be a teacher then find something else you might want to pursue...I still think it comes down to Wanting to succeed. If you are stuggling, then you have not reached your full potential. There are ways....you need to find one. You can't expect everything to come to you.

Yes if you have a specific field that you want like a teacher [[low pay) or architect then a 4 year degree is needed. You are now making a blanket statement that every field needs to have a BS to get anywhere.

But the whole point of my very first post was that these college grads now want a free pass on their obigation to pay the loans back that got them their degrees. Which as I said there should be NO FREE passes on repayment of your obligation.

How are two specific examples I have given a blanket statement? I know not every job requires a degree but there are jobs out there that do! Simple as that.

And I do agree that I and fellow college graduates should not get a free pass on our loans. I'm not saying that. But looking forward how are future generations going to afford college? So do we just decrease the amount of <fill in the blank with a job that REQUIRES a degree> we need because people can't afford it? Do we saturate the market with electricians, a well paying job acquired from a certificate type program, because people can't afford a BS degree in what they really want to do?

Education costs have gotten out of hand that is the point of the Occupy statements. Education should be decently affordable so you can become what you want when you want and be able to pay off the debt from said venture. I think we will differ on that opinion though.

BTW if anyone is looking for a low risk venture with making some interest on some money let me know!? I pay all my bills on time!

[canuck]

It's sad to think that soon these people won't be able to go camping anymore and might have to start looking for a job again.

Yup, while I think that a bunch of people getting together and demonstrating against abuses in the capitalist system, or any other is laudable; I think the tent city thing is starting to get old pretty early on. It doesnt attract the vast majority of your middle class folk who see this as a slacker event much like the hippie revolution fizzed out into bland commerce.

A girl at Occupy Vancouver overdosed and near to us in Burlington Vermont a homeless guy seems to have shot himself in the head in a tent he had set up alongside the Occupy Vermont site. I think the twitter/facebook social media crowd is in over its head in that they managed to group a bunch together and forgot to have a real agenda, a valid strategy that would gather momentum for social progress. Spontaneity is OK but it only goes so far.

[Bham1982]

Still here wondering why the protestors haven't tried to shut down GM, Chrysler, and the major parts suppliers, given that they were huge local beneficiaries of the financial bailout. I guess that doesn't fit their preferred "evil banks and rich people" narrative.

Now that their camping trip is nearing an end, I wonder if these folks ever think the Fall season would have been more productive if they were busy looking for a job, instead of fighting the "man".

[bailey]

Still here wondering why the protestors haven't tried to shut down GM, Chrysler, and the major parts suppliers, given that they were huge local beneficiaries of the financial bailout. I guess that doesn't fit their preferred "evil banks and rich people" narrative.

Now that their camping trip is nearing an end, I wonder if these folks ever think the Fall season would have been more productive if they were busy looking for a job, instead of fighting the "man".

...or taking a ride up to the BofA HQ instead of hassling the 10.oo an hour tellers at the Downtown branch.

But again, nothing about this "movement" was about actually doing something, it was a temper tantrum. It was extreme left exercising the same impotent rage that motivated the Teabaggers on the fringe right.

We have real problems in this country and those problems aren't going to be solved in a drum circle or by prancing around parks in revolutionary war costumes.

[Detroitnerd]

I see the Right-Wing Mutual Admiration Society is in full swing this morning ...

[adamjab19]

Still here wondering why the protestors haven't tried to shut down GM, Chrysler, and the major parts suppliers, given that they were huge local beneficiaries of the financial bailout. I guess that doesn't fit their preferred "evil banks and rich people" narrative.

Now that their camping trip is nearing an end, I wonder if these folks ever think the Fall season would have been more productive if they were busy looking for a job, instead of fighting the "man".

I think they were more peaved with the paper pushers and their house of cards that was cleaned up by the government.

[Bham1982]

I see the Right-Wing Mutual Admiration Society is in full swing this morning ...

I can't stand the right-wing, especially the teabaggers and the like.

But I'm not going to give their equivalents on the left a free pass.

The real "99%" are the folks in the middle, who don't believe that guns and prayer will fix America, but also don't believe that demonizing wealth and capitalism will fix America.

Both sides are filled with idiots, from the folks who think Obama wants to take their guns, to the folks who demonize Wall Street without even understanding the basics of finance.

[Detroitnerd]

The real "99%" are the folks in the middle, who don't believe that guns and prayer will fix America, but also don't believe that demonizing wealth and capitalism will fix America.

You just aren't paying attention, or maybe you don't want to. Maybe you'd rather be spoon-fed caricatures of the Occupy message by right-wing commentators if it makes you feel better. I don't think anybody is demonizing wealth that's properly earned. It's the corruption, the criminality, the bad faith of the people who crashed the economy, and then were bailed out by their stooges in government -- on all our backs -- and who now want to be absolved from ever being prosecuted for their very real crimes.

If you'd rather hide behind facile remarks about drum circles and patchouli oil, you're not part of the solution, I'm afraid.

So go on patting each other's backs and missing the point.

[Bham1982]

. I don't think anybody is demonizing wealth that's properly earned. It's the corruption, the criminality, the bad faith of the people who crashed the economy, and then were bailed out by their stooges in government -- on all our backs -- and who now want to be absolved from ever being prosecuted for their very real crimes.

If this is truly the purpose of OWS, then they all need to move their encampment to Washington.

Wall Street, like any other industry, is a product of the federal regulatory framework. If you believe this framework is inadequate or otherwise at fault, then the primary blame falls at the feet of our legislators.

[Detroitnerd]

If this is truly the purpose of OWS, then they all need to move their encampment to Washington.

Wall Street, like any other industry, is a product of the federal regulatory framework. If you believe this framework is inadequate or otherwise at fault, then the primary blame falls at the feet of our legislators.

Oh, banana oil! Protest the criminals at the scene of the crime. People have been protesting in Washington for years, and nobody covers it anymore. It's a little mini-industry in Washington. People come, protest and the media snooze. What better place to protest than at the scene of the crime, where the media capital is anyway? The very fact that this is getting visibility tells me they're doing it right.

[Bham1982]

Oh, banana oil! Protest the criminals at the scene of the crime.

Again, if what you say is correct [[re. the protestors' intent) then the scene of the crime is Washington.

If Wall Street is doing illegal things more than other industries are doing illegal things [[and I'm not even sure that this is true; my experience is that folks in financial services aren't more or less greedy than folks in the auto industry, tech, or any other industry) then any alleged lack of enforcement is entirely the responsibility of our legislators.

If, for example, you believe that Wall Street "makes too much money" or "has too little transparancy" or "shouldn't have been bailed out", all these issues are 100% legislative issues. They have nothing to do with some executive secretary or currency trader walking to work at some bank. There is no relationship between their job roles and the accusations being thrown about.

[ordinary]

You just have no idea, and I am tired of trying to explain this to people like you.

I read your one of your later posts also and I sure didn't mean to insinuate that you're lazy. And I do understand that people need to take out loans. I'm not sure what you mean by "people like me". I'm just a parent trying to help out his kids. My kids are going part time because they don't want to take out loans. I went to Macomb and Wayne. It took me 8 years to obtain an associate's degree and another 8 years to obtain a bachelor's degree. Hell, I should be a doctor!

[Detroitnerd]

Again, if what you say is correct [[re. the protestors' intent) then the scene of the crime is Washington.

If Wall Street is doing illegal things more than other industries are doing illegal things [[and I'm not even sure that this is true; my experience is that folks in financial services aren't more or less greedy than folks in the auto industry, tech, or any other industry) then any alleged lack of enforcement is entirely the responsibility of our legislators.

You might enjoy watching "Inside Job," which details the ways in which Wall Street, that is to say, the investment banks, ratings agencies and insurers committed the crimes. They sold people "pieces of crap" by their own admission, and made money by betting against the very "products" they were selling. If your understanding of finance is as sophisticated as you say it is, you should see this movie. It will help explain why these businesses are more corrupt -- because they aren't fundamentally creative. They create nothing. There is no "product." They fleece people. And, yes, they should be arrested, prosecuted and put in jail. Not given trillions of dollars of our money. And, frankly, if you don't get that, I imagine you have to bend over backward not to get that. There must be some ideological unwillingness to admit that these people have done more to hurt America than a dozen terrorists armed with atom bombs. And they should be publicly embarrassed by protest. Not their lackeys in Washington. Not their employees in Congress. No, them. They themselves. I like it. It smells like justice to me.

Maybe you should educate yourself on what people are angry about instead of drawing caricatures of hippies...

[bopcity]

Historical data shows that after the top marginal income tax rate of 91% was reduced during the Kennedy Administration to 77% in 1964

Historical data also indicates the Kennedy administration ended on Nov. 22, 1963.

Nice try, thanks for playing?

[Ravine]

Historical data also indicates the Kennedy administration ended on Nov. 22, 1963.

Nice try, thanks for playing?

That was still the Kennedy administration, wise guy. Lyndon Johnson served as President to finish out the term of the assassinated Kennedy. Do you think all of Kennedy's cabinet, various other appointees, and the general policies of his administration were immediately ash-canned?

Next time, before you break out the smart-ass "Nice try, thanks for playing?," close your eyes, clamp your jaw tightly, and ask yourself if you really know what the fuck you are talking about.

[MissingDetroit]

"Maybe you should educate yourself on what people are angry about"

Or maybe the Angry People should do a better job of educating everyone else, had you thought of that? I'm hearing about rapes, murder, suicide, arrests and property/business destruction; I read the website, and it reads like a 2011 Little Red Book reeking of hyperbole and rhetoric and loaded with every cliche anyone ever thought of. I REALLY don't like it when an Okland idiot says that their purpose is to continue incurring expenses for the taxpayer. They have destroyed the park I visited the other day -- it is a mud hole suitable for pigs.

I could go on and on but I have a business and a family and a life. I like the system and want Glass Steagel, destroyed by Bill Clinton, revived, but that apparently isn't going to happen with President Goldman Sachs and Treasurer Federal Reserve. You can lecture and hector and whine at other people, but as long as there are no perceivable effects from your group, beyond costing everybody millions of dollars, you're just blowing smoke.

[jh0]

It's sad to think that soon these people won't be able to go camping anymore and might have to start looking for a job again.

They can change it from Occupy Detroit to Occupy Metro Detroit camping grounds.

[Detroitnerd]

... maybe the Angry People should do a better job of educating everyone else, had you thought of that? I'm hearing about rapes, murder, suicide, arrests and property/business destruction

MissingDetroit, one of the wonderful things about the Internet, and communicating on it, is that you can show links to actual news reporting documenting what you don't like. Please do be aware that the media is largely unsympathetic to the movement, and that there are plenty of people posting disinformation about what is happening. So far as I am aware, the only systematic damage being done at these events is by overzealous police, trying to rush into the protests and beating people up. Yet, you are noticeably silent on those issues. Curious...

I read the website, and it reads like a 2011 Little Red Book reeking of hyperbole and rhetoric and loaded with every cliche anyone ever thought of. I REALLY don't like it when an Okland idiot says that their purpose is to continue incurring expenses for the taxpayer. They have destroyed the park I visited the other day -- it is a mud hole suitable for pigs.

Yes, protest is often not pretty. It imposes costs on government, and that's a point well-taken. How long can the people who have hijacked our democracy and rule of law keep spending money to squelch a nonviolent movement that attempts, for all its cliches, yes [[as if the powers-that-be don't spout cliches every damn day) to embody democracy.

I could go on and on but I have a business and a family and a life.

As if the people protesting do not? Those Oakland cops were throwing concussion grenades into a park with families, children, and old people. And if you do have a stake in this society, it would seem you have all the more reason to want real democracy and rule of law, and not to let the corrupt run roughshod over us all.

I like the system and want Glass Steagel, destroyed by Bill Clinton, revived, but that apparently isn't going to happen with President Goldman Sachs and Treasurer Federal Reserve. You can lecture and hector and whine at other people, but as long as there are no perceivable effects from your group, beyond costing everybody millions of dollars, you're just blowing smoke.

There are effects. They are reframing the debate. Or would you rather have your debate framed by lunatics, criminals, lobbyists, the mainstream media and big business? I find it refreshing that people are going out and saying that they're sick and tired of a government that is less democratic, corporations that are lawless, and the encroachment of corporate feudalism. Sounds good to me on all counts. You can't change the world by being servile...

[bopcity]

That was still the Kennedy administration, wise guy. Lyndon Johnson served as President to finish out the term of the assassinated Kennedy. Do you think all of Kennedy's cabinet, various other appointees, and the general policies of his administration were immediately ash-canned?

No, and I didn't suggest otherwise. Perhaps I'm as obsessive about details as you are about leaving out a pesky little 'h'? Was Richard Nixon pardoned during Nixon's administration or the Gerald Ford administration? I'd suggest the latter though I believe most of Nixon's cabinet and appointees were still in place, except for those under indictment.

Next time, before you break out the smart-ass "Nice try, thanks for playing?," close your eyes, clamp your jaw tightly, and ask yourself if you really know what the fuck you are talking about.

To clarify: the smart-ass "Nice try, thanks for playing" comment was Mikeg's, the question mark was mine. But your imperious suggestion was duly noted, thanks for sharing.

[Danny]

PROLETARIAN NEWS!!!

My Comrades. The City of Detroit wants the 99 Percenters out. I say stay until the end. Tie yourselves to the trees if you have to! If we do leave, let's occupy Roosevelt Park instead. We will march into the streets with the hammer of justice and the sickle of peace against corporate greed and the end their relationship within the world governments. The 99 Pecenters will not give up the right to protest and occupy all city parks. Losing the occupation means that the corporations and governments will win. We will keep the eyes on the prize my brothers and sisters. We have a human society that needs reform. The proletarians and middle class want their needs from earning a home and getting a decent job. The 99 Percenters will grow all over the Earth. We will occupy the planet until or mantra is being heard. Don't lost hope my comrades. Change is coming one step at a time. One day my brothers and sisters corporate greed and global government kleptocracies will end. Long live Guy Fawkes, long live the 99 Percent. TOGETHER!