Detroit cop sucker punches drunk at Casino.....suelarity ensues

**Gistok** · September-29-11, 11:42 PM

Originally Posted by ferntruth

I'm sorry, were you drafted to be a police officer? No one forced YOU to take the job - in fact, its been my experience that most of the morons who carry a badge and a gun should not be doing so. Based on your comments, I think you belong in that category as well.
YOU chose to do what you do for a lving. If you have a problem with it, find another job.

Either way, you don't get to arbitrarily strike someone....and people wonder why some [[including me) have absolutely no respect for cops.

Fern... not one of your better posts [[of which there are many)...

Even I [[who detest border patrol folks at the tunnel/bridge) don't label everyone in one profession with the same disdain... there are good and bad...

Vox · September-29-11, 11:43 PM

Originally Posted by Gistok

Fern... not one of your better posts [[of which there are many)...

Even I [[who detest border patrol folks at the tunnel/bridge) don't label everyone in one profession with the same disdain... there are good and bad...

I'm shaking my fist in anger.... oh... nevermind.

Vox · September-26-11, 11:47 PM

After this drunk refused to leave, DPD was called. Initially, it seems the guy
agreed to leave. Yet while walking out, he then turns on the officers, gets in
their face, and points a finger in the one officers face. What happens next is
what justifies the use of force. Unless you guys are watching a different video,
it seems the guy from Livonia is holding a clinched right fist in the air.

I would be willing to bet that there are witnesses to this "with context" that would put this story to rest. As well as what the officer wrote in his report? The guy may be a drunken perv, but I bet he'll win big for this. Just saying.

**Supersport** · September-26-11, 11:52 PM

He won't win. In Detroit fashion, they will simply pay out a settlement instead. This guy should be headed to jail, and instead, will get a nice settlement. Par for the course, and much of the reason why the city is broke.

**Red Devil** · September-27-11, 12:42 AM

The guy got what was coming to him. Get DPD some tazers.

**Meddle** · September-27-11, 03:38 AM

Yet while walking out, he then turns on the officers, gets in their face, and points a finger in the one officers face.

Tough. Get over it like an adult instead of acting like a schoolyard bully. Maybe they shoulda shot him 54 times like the NYPD thugs did to the wedding goer.

The way Detroit handles things, this guy will be the new Chief in a few weeks.

**rjk** · September-27-11, 04:39 AM

Supersport, if his actions were appropriate why did he feel the need to lie numerous times in his report? This officer either forgot or doesn't know that there are cameras in a casino.

"He drew back his closed right fist and attempted to strike ... I sidestepped his punch and in order to defend myself I struck [[Poisson) in the facial area with a closed right fist ... And with a closed left fist I struck subject in the facial area who was still coming at me," Dudal wrote in his July 31 arrest report.

You'll also notice that the 2nd officer at no time feels that this guy is a threat to harm either of the two of them as he just casually stands there with his hands down by his side.

**Bham1982** · September-27-11, 06:56 AM

Originally Posted by Meddle

Tough. Get over it like an adult instead of acting like a schoolyard bully. Maybe they shoulda shot him 54 times like the NYPD thugs did to the wedding goer.

You're referring to the Sean Bell incident, and couldn't be more wrong with your version of events.

The "wedding goer" was a career criminal in a known drug hotspot and overheard on wiretap as going for his "piece" located in his car.

Once the officers approached Sean Bell in his car, he drove the car directly at the approaching officers, sparking the multiple rounds of gunfire.

Re. this incident at MGM, I think there's possibly some room for debate, though whatever this drunkard said does not excuse a sucker punch. There are more reasonable restraints. And there's no excuse whatsover for the lying.

**jcole** · September-27-11, 07:50 AM

How can that be a 'sucker punch' when he was facing the cop in a threatening manner? A sucker punch is a surprise attack from behind

**SWMAP** · September-27-11, 08:49 AM

A lot left unsaid here. For example, which side asked for a trial in Federal Court? Usually not the plaintiff - in my experience the City tries to move the complaint to Federal Court because The level of proof is a lot higher there than in a Michigan court.
Why is the drunk's attorney trying this in the court of public opinion [[certainly the City did not run around and have a press conference and release the tape)? Who gains from this except the lawyer who is maybe pretty hungry for a big settlement?
Finally, why ask the police to come in and intervene in a little brawl with security if not wanting to press charges? Are the DPD just bouncers for the casino?

In my opinion, there is a lot more here than meets the eye- as is often the case.

**swingline** · September-27-11, 09:36 AM

Supersport, you're a DYes HOF poster, but man, that's one scary ride-off-the-rails post you've made in this thread.

Most of us know that as a cop you are forced to interact daily and constantly with the biggest assholes around like Mr. Poisson, the plaintiff here. It's an awful part of your job and it is certainly understandable how that can wear on you. It's also perfectly ok to adopt a code of brotherhood/sisterhood with your fellow sworn officers, and as a part of that support each other in difficult times and situations.

But the stretch you have to make in this case to support Officer Dudal is so misguided that it really is scary. You're actually seeing things that are not there. Mr. Poisson at most stuck his chest out while he was no doubt delivering several f-bombs in Officer Dudal's direction. The video reveals nothing physically threatening enough to justify the punches that were thrown. Mr. Poisson was in the middle of a crowded casino floor surrounded by two cops and another casino security officer. He was not some murder suspect who just been apprehended in a dark alley. If punches were justified here, there is almost no circumstance where a verbally aggressive citizen within arm's reach of an officer can't be justifiably dropped.

The video is unequivocal. Officer Dudal simply decided to teach a drunk a lesson. He took advantage of his badge and sullied it permanently.

Supersport, if you think that Officer Dudal's actions were justified because Mr. Poisson merely stiffened his body in the officer's general direction, then you as well are certainly going to find yourself on the receiving end of plenty of citizen complaints. Hopefully, you won't get involved in an encounter that mistakenly or wrongfully changes lives permanently.

**Supersport** · September-27-11, 09:20 AM

When this guy was being escorted out, I assume he was already being placed under arest. At that point, the discussion is over, there is no explaining left to do. Instead of going peacefully, he turned on the officers. As for the report, I can't speak for what the officer said in his own words. Consider this though, these cameras are not Hollywood quality. More than one person above has mentioned choppiness, leading them to believe the tape may have been edited. More likely, its simply the cameras, and everything on camera may not happen as quickly as real life due to the frame rate. Him turning on the officers could have been more of a quick spin at them. The finger pointing could have happened at a speed where it was mistaken for an attempted punch. I can't say for sure. What I can say, is when this guy was struck, he was still in the officer's face with what appears to be a clinched right fist, raised and ready to throw. Then, once on the ground, it is again obvious that the guy is not knocked out, but in fact moving around, and even visibly pulling away from the officer in an attempt to prevent from being handcuffed. So why did his attorney lie and say his client was knocked out?

bartock · September-27-11, 09:32 AM

Originally Posted by Supersport

When this guy was being escorted out, I assume he was already being placed under arest. At that point, the discussion is over, there is no explaining left to do. Instead of going peacefully, he turned on the officers. As for the report, I can't speak for what the officer said in his own words. Consider this though, these cameras are not Hollywood quality. More than one person above has mentioned choppiness, leading them to believe the tape may have been edited. More likely, its simply the cameras, and everything on camera may not happen as quickly as real life due to the frame rate. Him turning on the officers could have been more of a quick spin at them. The finger pointing could have happened at a speed where it was mistaken for an attempted punch. I can't say for sure. What I can say, is when this guy was struck, he was still in the officer's face with what appears to be a clinched right fist, raised and ready to throw. Then, once on the ground, it is again obvious that the guy is not knocked out, but in fact moving around, and even visibly pulling away from the officer in an attempt to prevent from being handcuffed. So why did his attorney lie and say his client was knocked out?

As a cop you must know that attorneys don't lie. They merely re-make the truth.

**kraig** · September-27-11, 09:34 AM

Originally Posted by Supersport

When this guy was being escorted out, I assume he was already being placed under arest. At that point, the discussion is over, there is no explaining left to do. Instead of going peacefully, he turned on the officers. As for the report, I can't speak for what the officer said in his own words. Consider this though, these cameras are not Hollywood quality. More than one person above has mentioned choppiness, leading them to believe the tape may have been edited. More likely, its simply the cameras, and everything on camera may not happen as quickly as real life due to the frame rate. Him turning on the officers could have been more of a quick spin at them. The finger pointing could have happened at a speed where it was mistaken for an attempted punch. I can't say for sure. What I can say, is when this guy was struck, he was still in the officer's face with what appears to be a clinched right fist, raised and ready to throw. Then, once on the ground, it is again obvious that the guy is not knocked out, but in fact moving around, and even visibly pulling away from the officer in an attempt to prevent from being handcuffed. So why did his attorney lie and say his client was knocked out?

Stop, just stop. Please tell me you're not a detective. I'll be able to sleep much better at night knowing that. Because as a witness, you are a criminal defense or civil lawsuit lawyer's wet dream.

By the way, if he was already under arrest. Shouldn't he have already been in handcuffs?

**GOAT** · September-28-11, 07:13 AM

Originally Posted by Supersport

When this guy was being escorted out, I assume he was already being placed under arest. At that point, the discussion is over, there is no explaining left to do. Instead of going peacefully, he turned on the officers. As for the report, I can't speak for what the officer said in his own words. Consider this though, these cameras are not Hollywood quality. More than one person above has mentioned choppiness, leading them to believe the tape may have been edited. More likely, its simply the cameras, and everything on camera may not happen as quickly as real life due to the frame rate. Him turning on the officers could have been more of a quick spin at them. The finger pointing could have happened at a speed where it was mistaken for an attempted punch. I can't say for sure. What I can say, is when this guy was struck, he was still in the officer's face with what appears to be a clinched right fist, raised and ready to throw. Then, once on the ground, it is again obvious that the guy is not knocked out, but in fact moving around, and even visibly pulling away from the officer in an attempt to prevent from being handcuffed. So why did his attorney lie and say his client was knocked out?

Well that didn't take you long Sport to become a typical cop who will "defend" his own. Walk in line right?

You know as well as I do that this is pure bullshit. The cop is wrong regardless of what the guy said, how he behaved with or without a clenched fist. The fact remains that he didn't try to physically assault the officer.

A judge will laugh this out of court as did your brother-in-blue's own prosecutor.

Imo, this is just another cop taking atters into his own hands. If he can't take teh job then fucking quit! I'm so fucking tireds of hearing how cops have it so rough. Yes they do! But the question why if it is so tough and horrible then why do it? Every cop knows what they are getting into when they are hired, so why the big surprise??

So I'll say it again. If they can't hack the criminal element, the loud-mouths, the punks, then quit and find another line of work. This man's rights were violated and the cop, the city should be penalized for it.

**Supersport** · September-27-11, 10:45 AM

Nobody here seems to be denying the guy had his right hand raised, clenched, and able to strike. Does the majority here feel that the officer needed to wait to be punched? If punched, possibly injured, would the action taken by the officer then be viewed as ok? There is nothing that says we have to wait to be punched before using force. This guy exhibited non-compliance from the beginning, then turned around and became confrontational, and then showed a raised clenched fist. Until you've been on the ground, fighting for your life, waiting for backup, you can't relate to how quickly a situation can turn dangerous. Drunks, as well as people on narcotics and folks with mental problems are the most dangerous encounters. It seems the majority would rather see one less officer on the street, off due to injury, and possibly even allowing the you to escape, as opposed to the outcome that took place. Yes, the DOJ is here, but that does not mean taking second guesses prior to taking action because of their presence. An officer is killed on average every 2 days in this country, and a good majority can be attributed to an officer don't taking proper action to stop a threat, for fear of discipline or causing injury to the person. I've said all I've got to say, though will continue to follow the thread.

**UpTown** · September-27-11, 11:04 AM

Originally Posted by Supersport

Nobody here seems to be denying the guy had his right hand raised, clenched, and able to strike. Does the majority here feel that the officer needed to wait to be punched? If punched, possibly injured, would the action taken by the officer then be viewed as ok? There is nothing that says we have to wait to be punched before using force. This guy exhibited non-compliance from the beginning, then turned around and became confrontational, and then showed a raised clenched fist. Until you've been on the ground, fighting for your life, waiting for backup, you can't relate to how quickly a situation can turn dangerous. Drunks, as well as people on narcotics and folks with mental problems are the most dangerous encounters. It seems the majority would rather see one less officer on the street, off due to injury, and possibly even allowing the you to escape, as opposed to the outcome that took place. Yes, the DOJ is here, but that does not mean taking second guesses prior to taking action because of their presence. An officer is killed on average every 2 days in this country, and a good majority can be attributed to an officer don't taking proper action to stop a threat, for fear of discipline or causing injury to the person. I've said all I've got to say, though will continue to follow the thread.

Supersport, again as an officer yourself, you keep stating that "There is nothing that says we have to wait to be punched before using force." You are right, there is nothing that says that, but there are lot of unwritten rules of this world, so please stop using that one as an excuse for this incident. Police officers are highly trained, both in physical tactics as well as psychological ones. His right hand was raised up, this is true. In that video, just before the officer punches him, the drunk's body posture [[shoulders forward, chest parallel to the officer) appears to show that if that guy managed to get a punch in with that right hand, he wouldn't have alot of spacing to add any power to that punch, and there is the other officer there at the ready to assist. So 2 good sized officers in close range, with alleged training, tools, and experience in these situations can't address this in the proper way? They are to serve and protect. They are expected to protect this man, even from himself. Is there not a way to use a pressure point, or method of restraint to put this man into a position of compliance? Other than an admirable right hand to the drunks jaw? I refuse to believe that.
We have 20 years of COPS episodes that showcase better use of police tactics to restrain people for us normal citizens.
The officer completely overreacted. He's human. But he refused accountability, allowed a false police report to be submitted by the assisting officer, and now the City of Detroit is on the hook for this officer's gross misconduct.
I understand being a City of Detroit police officer is a thankless and stress filled job. But that's the job. It should be able to wash out those who can't take it, yet it seems to be the opposite: those who can't take it are retained and protected. One needs to look no further than to Officer Nevin Hughes, who beat up that college student at the gas station in 2009.

**JBMcB** · September-27-11, 11:32 AM

Originally Posted by UpTown

In that video, just before the officer punches him, the drunk's body posture [[shoulders forward, chest parallel to the officer) appears to show that if that guy managed to get a punch in with that right hand, he wouldn't have alot of spacing to add any power to that punch,

Stole what I was going to say. At about 6:34, the drunk guy's arm is up, his hand right next to his head. If you are going to punch someone, this is the worst possible way to start, next to starting with your arm fully extended. Now look at the cop's right arm - cocked and ready to go.

As for the video frame rate - if anything it looks slightly sped up, meaning events were happening more slowly than what you see. The cop lost his cool, plain and simple.

**bailey** · September-27-11, 12:25 PM

Originally Posted by UpTown

The officer completely overreacted. He's human. But he refused accountability, allowed a false police report to be submitted by the assisting officer, and now the City of Detroit is on the hook for this officer's gross misconduct. .

That, Supersport is what everyone is reacting to. The officer made up, embellished and outright lied about the situation. He dropped the guy in the middle of casino... apparently oblivious to the fact that there are few places on earth with fewer video cameras than a casino gaming floor. So, the question now is...how many times did he do something similar when there were no cameras around to witness it?

**Goose** · September-27-11, 12:27 PM

Originally Posted by bailey

That, Supersport is what everyone is reacting to. The officer made up, embellished and outright lied about the situation. He dropped the guy in the middle of casino... apparently oblivious to the fact that there are few places on earth with fewer video cameras than a casino gaming floor. So, the question now is...how many times did he do something similar when there were no cameras around to witness it?

yup, it wasn't the punch.... it was the lie about the punch...

I did not have sexual relations with that woman, Miss Lewinsky.

enough said

**davewindsor** · September-28-11, 07:04 AM

Originally Posted by Goose

yup, it wasn't the punch.... it was the lie about the punch...

I agree with that too. I think the punch was justified. The lying by the officer is the only thing I have an issue with. The cop also has a gun and being so close there's also an issue that the suspect could have reached for it and jeapordized the safety of the patrons of the casino. Just google "suspect grabs officer's gun holster". It's a real concern.

But, why blatantly lie about the punch? It's obvious that the scene would be recorded in a casino. If the officer said, we asked the suspect to leave the premises with us peacefully. He initially complied. While escorting the suspect outside, the suspect turned around and got right up in my face in a threatening manner and became verbally abusive. The suspect raised his hand in a threatening manner. The officer was concerned that the suspect in his confrontational state and proximity may reach for the officer's gun holster while being distracted by the raised hand and his verbal abuse. The officer swung at the suspect to avoid an unsafe situation for the officer and the casino patrons.

The think an explanation like that would be reasonable for the force that was used.

Instead, the officer lied and should be reprimanded.

**Detroitnerd** · September-27-11, 12:28 PM

It just got that much harder to seat a jury in this town ...

**Supersport** · September-27-11, 12:38 PM

I'm a Dyes HOFer? Sniff, sniff...I would like to thank my mom and dad, Sprint, and formerly Comcast, for providing me with internet access. I would also like to thank Detroit, as well as her cast of charactors for providing me the needed material to be HOF, I couldn't have done it without you!

So any way, how bout them Lions? 3-0 baby!

**SWMAP** · September-27-11, 01:52 PM

Irony here in that the plaintiff's attorney is a member of the Michigan Unarmed Combat commission. I wonder if the PO had used a karate move to take the obnoxious drunk down things would have gone better for the cop:

Attorney Wolfgang Mueller was elected Vice Chair of the Michigan Unarmed Combat Commission. Mueller was previously appointed by Gov. Jennifer Granholm to the Commission. The U.C.C., formerly the Michigan Boxing Commission, will help promote all unarmed combat sports, including boxing and the rising sport of mixed martial arts.

Al Low, U.C.C. Commissioner, said "We are very pleased to have Wolfgang on the Commission. His legal background and concern for the athletes will provide a needed voice on the Commission." Mr. Mueller is a former competitive bodybuilder and has represented many professional boxers and other athletes.

**Detroit Stylin** · September-27-11, 02:36 PM

SPort do what you do. Simply becuase I live in the city and SEE FIRST HAND what people do [[suprisingly its alot of people who come in from out the city), and then when they get their asses handed to them THEN it becomes "Well the cops should be helld accountbale for their actions". Well what about those who resist or make a cops job harder for them when they are simply doing their job? Given what a cop goes through on a daily basis when you take an incident like this and times it sereval times over any given week IF the cop acted unjustly then I could understand why when you are simply dong your job and have to have a whole lot of restraint to keep from putting someone in the dirt for not following the orders of a person wearing a badge.