Detroit cop sucker punches drunk at Casino.....suelarity ensues

[SWMAP]

A lot left unsaid here. For example, which side asked for a trial in Federal Court? Usually not the plaintiff - in my experience the City tries to move the complaint to Federal Court because The level of proof is a lot higher there than in a Michigan court.
Why is the drunk's attorney trying this in the court of public opinion [[certainly the City did not run around and have a press conference and release the tape)? Who gains from this except the lawyer who is maybe pretty hungry for a big settlement?
Finally, why ask the police to come in and intervene in a little brawl with security if not wanting to press charges? Are the DPD just bouncers for the casino?

In my opinion, there is a lot more here than meets the eye- as is often the case.

[Supersport]

When this guy was being escorted out, I assume he was already being placed under arest. At that point, the discussion is over, there is no explaining left to do. Instead of going peacefully, he turned on the officers. As for the report, I can't speak for what the officer said in his own words. Consider this though, these cameras are not Hollywood quality. More than one person above has mentioned choppiness, leading them to believe the tape may have been edited. More likely, its simply the cameras, and everything on camera may not happen as quickly as real life due to the frame rate. Him turning on the officers could have been more of a quick spin at them. The finger pointing could have happened at a speed where it was mistaken for an attempted punch. I can't say for sure. What I can say, is when this guy was struck, he was still in the officer's face with what appears to be a clinched right fist, raised and ready to throw. Then, once on the ground, it is again obvious that the guy is not knocked out, but in fact moving around, and even visibly pulling away from the officer in an attempt to prevent from being handcuffed. So why did his attorney lie and say his client was knocked out?

[Scottathew]

Do the City of Detroit a favor, if you are indeed a cop, quit. It's officers that think the way you are thinking that has us dealing with Consent Decrees and hundreds of millions in lawsuit settlements as it is. And then you'll complain about the lack of equipment that the department has due to financial woes. As it stands, that officers idiotic decision has already cost he and his partner disciplinary action. But let's look at what else it will probably cost. It will wind up being a six figure settlement, which is the cost of about two or three scout cars, four or five guns, ammunition for the guns, several vests, etc.

And yet you're argument is that it should be okay to treat a white guy unfairly in Detroit because they would treat a black guy unfairly in Livonia. The best weapon that a police officer has is his or her brain. Obviously, any officer that would pull a stunt like this in the most video surveilled place around, and then completely lie about it, is unarmed in that regard.

Kraig and I have intensely disagreed in the past, but in this instance we're in complete agreement.

The office was completely out of line. The subject, while he is a scumbag groping pervert, did nothing to the cop to warrant that level of force.

While I do like seeing scumbags punched in the face, I don't like seeing them get rich, and that's exactly what's going to happen here. If the cop did his job properly, this scumbag would be in jail on sexual assault charges instead of negotiating with Detroit over how much money he'll get.

I understand that being a cop is a hard job. You deal with a lot of scumbags. You also deal with a lot of good people too. However, simply can't slip, even if it's a pervert scumbag, you can't slip. You have to follow the rules. And you especially can't slip in a casino where your actions are more than likely recorded by at bare minimum two different angles.

And yes, we are missing the audio context of the event, but there's nothing he could have said to warrant that level of physical force.

We appreciate our police officers, but they simply cannot use excessive force.

[bartock]

When this guy was being escorted out, I assume he was already being placed under arest. At that point, the discussion is over, there is no explaining left to do. Instead of going peacefully, he turned on the officers. As for the report, I can't speak for what the officer said in his own words. Consider this though, these cameras are not Hollywood quality. More than one person above has mentioned choppiness, leading them to believe the tape may have been edited. More likely, its simply the cameras, and everything on camera may not happen as quickly as real life due to the frame rate. Him turning on the officers could have been more of a quick spin at them. The finger pointing could have happened at a speed where it was mistaken for an attempted punch. I can't say for sure. What I can say, is when this guy was struck, he was still in the officer's face with what appears to be a clinched right fist, raised and ready to throw. Then, once on the ground, it is again obvious that the guy is not knocked out, but in fact moving around, and even visibly pulling away from the officer in an attempt to prevent from being handcuffed. So why did his attorney lie and say his client was knocked out?

As a cop you must know that attorneys don't lie. They merely re-make the truth.

[kraig]

When this guy was being escorted out, I assume he was already being placed under arest. At that point, the discussion is over, there is no explaining left to do. Instead of going peacefully, he turned on the officers. As for the report, I can't speak for what the officer said in his own words. Consider this though, these cameras are not Hollywood quality. More than one person above has mentioned choppiness, leading them to believe the tape may have been edited. More likely, its simply the cameras, and everything on camera may not happen as quickly as real life due to the frame rate. Him turning on the officers could have been more of a quick spin at them. The finger pointing could have happened at a speed where it was mistaken for an attempted punch. I can't say for sure. What I can say, is when this guy was struck, he was still in the officer's face with what appears to be a clinched right fist, raised and ready to throw. Then, once on the ground, it is again obvious that the guy is not knocked out, but in fact moving around, and even visibly pulling away from the officer in an attempt to prevent from being handcuffed. So why did his attorney lie and say his client was knocked out?

Stop, just stop. Please tell me you're not a detective. I'll be able to sleep much better at night knowing that. Because as a witness, you are a criminal defense or civil lawsuit lawyer's wet dream.

By the way, if he was already under arrest. Shouldn't he have already been in handcuffs?

[swingline]

Supersport, you're a DYes HOF poster, but man, that's one scary ride-off-the-rails post you've made in this thread.

Most of us know that as a cop you are forced to interact daily and constantly with the biggest assholes around like Mr. Poisson, the plaintiff here. It's an awful part of your job and it is certainly understandable how that can wear on you. It's also perfectly ok to adopt a code of brotherhood/sisterhood with your fellow sworn officers, and as a part of that support each other in difficult times and situations.

But the stretch you have to make in this case to support Officer Dudal is so misguided that it really is scary. You're actually seeing things that are not there. Mr. Poisson at most stuck his chest out while he was no doubt delivering several f-bombs in Officer Dudal's direction. The video reveals nothing physically threatening enough to justify the punches that were thrown. Mr. Poisson was in the middle of a crowded casino floor surrounded by two cops and another casino security officer. He was not some murder suspect who just been apprehended in a dark alley. If punches were justified here, there is almost no circumstance where a verbally aggressive citizen within arm's reach of an officer can't be justifiably dropped.

The video is unequivocal. Officer Dudal simply decided to teach a drunk a lesson. He took advantage of his badge and sullied it permanently.

Supersport, if you think that Officer Dudal's actions were justified because Mr. Poisson merely stiffened his body in the officer's general direction, then you as well are certainly going to find yourself on the receiving end of plenty of citizen complaints. Hopefully, you won't get involved in an encounter that mistakenly or wrongfully changes lives permanently.

[Supersport]

Nobody here seems to be denying the guy had his right hand raised, clenched, and able to strike. Does the majority here feel that the officer needed to wait to be punched? If punched, possibly injured, would the action taken by the officer then be viewed as ok? There is nothing that says we have to wait to be punched before using force. This guy exhibited non-compliance from the beginning, then turned around and became confrontational, and then showed a raised clenched fist. Until you've been on the ground, fighting for your life, waiting for backup, you can't relate to how quickly a situation can turn dangerous. Drunks, as well as people on narcotics and folks with mental problems are the most dangerous encounters. It seems the majority would rather see one less officer on the street, off due to injury, and possibly even allowing the you to escape, as opposed to the outcome that took place. Yes, the DOJ is here, but that does not mean taking second guesses prior to taking action because of their presence. An officer is killed on average every 2 days in this country, and a good majority can be attributed to an officer don't taking proper action to stop a threat, for fear of discipline or causing injury to the person. I've said all I've got to say, though will continue to follow the thread.

[UpTown]

Nobody here seems to be denying the guy had his right hand raised, clenched, and able to strike. Does the majority here feel that the officer needed to wait to be punched? If punched, possibly injured, would the action taken by the officer then be viewed as ok? There is nothing that says we have to wait to be punched before using force. This guy exhibited non-compliance from the beginning, then turned around and became confrontational, and then showed a raised clenched fist. Until you've been on the ground, fighting for your life, waiting for backup, you can't relate to how quickly a situation can turn dangerous. Drunks, as well as people on narcotics and folks with mental problems are the most dangerous encounters. It seems the majority would rather see one less officer on the street, off due to injury, and possibly even allowing the you to escape, as opposed to the outcome that took place. Yes, the DOJ is here, but that does not mean taking second guesses prior to taking action because of their presence. An officer is killed on average every 2 days in this country, and a good majority can be attributed to an officer don't taking proper action to stop a threat, for fear of discipline or causing injury to the person. I've said all I've got to say, though will continue to follow the thread.

Supersport, again as an officer yourself, you keep stating that "There is nothing that says we have to wait to be punched before using force." You are right, there is nothing that says that, but there are lot of unwritten rules of this world, so please stop using that one as an excuse for this incident. Police officers are highly trained, both in physical tactics as well as psychological ones. His right hand was raised up, this is true. In that video, just before the officer punches him, the drunk's body posture [[shoulders forward, chest parallel to the officer) appears to show that if that guy managed to get a punch in with that right hand, he wouldn't have alot of spacing to add any power to that punch, and there is the other officer there at the ready to assist. So 2 good sized officers in close range, with alleged training, tools, and experience in these situations can't address this in the proper way? They are to serve and protect. They are expected to protect this man, even from himself. Is there not a way to use a pressure point, or method of restraint to put this man into a position of compliance? Other than an admirable right hand to the drunks jaw? I refuse to believe that.
We have 20 years of COPS episodes that showcase better use of police tactics to restrain people for us normal citizens.
The officer completely overreacted. He's human. But he refused accountability, allowed a false police report to be submitted by the assisting officer, and now the City of Detroit is on the hook for this officer's gross misconduct.
I understand being a City of Detroit police officer is a thankless and stress filled job. But that's the job. It should be able to wash out those who can't take it, yet it seems to be the opposite: those who can't take it are retained and protected. One needs to look no further than to Officer Nevin Hughes, who beat up that college student at the gas station in 2009.

[JBMcB]

In that video, just before the officer punches him, the drunk's body posture [[shoulders forward, chest parallel to the officer) appears to show that if that guy managed to get a punch in with that right hand, he wouldn't have alot of spacing to add any power to that punch,

Stole what I was going to say. At about 6:34, the drunk guy's arm is up, his hand right next to his head. If you are going to punch someone, this is the worst possible way to start, next to starting with your arm fully extended. Now look at the cop's right arm - cocked and ready to go.

As for the video frame rate - if anything it looks slightly sped up, meaning events were happening more slowly than what you see. The cop lost his cool, plain and simple.

[bailey]

The officer completely overreacted. He's human. But he refused accountability, allowed a false police report to be submitted by the assisting officer, and now the City of Detroit is on the hook for this officer's gross misconduct. .

That, Supersport is what everyone is reacting to. The officer made up, embellished and outright lied about the situation. He dropped the guy in the middle of casino... apparently oblivious to the fact that there are few places on earth with fewer video cameras than a casino gaming floor. So, the question now is...how many times did he do something similar when there were no cameras around to witness it?

[Goose]

That, Supersport is what everyone is reacting to. The officer made up, embellished and outright lied about the situation. He dropped the guy in the middle of casino... apparently oblivious to the fact that there are few places on earth with fewer video cameras than a casino gaming floor. So, the question now is...how many times did he do something similar when there were no cameras around to witness it?

yup, it wasn't the punch.... it was the lie about the punch...

I did not have sexual relations with that woman, Miss Lewinsky.

enough said

[Detroitnerd]

It just got that much harder to seat a jury in this town ...

[Supersport]

I'm a Dyes HOFer? Sniff, sniff...I would like to thank my mom and dad, Sprint, and formerly Comcast, for providing me with internet access. I would also like to thank Detroit, as well as her cast of charactors for providing me the needed material to be HOF, I couldn't have done it without you!

So any way, how bout them Lions? 3-0 baby!

[SWMAP]

Irony here in that the plaintiff's attorney is a member of the Michigan Unarmed Combat commission. I wonder if the PO had used a karate move to take the obnoxious drunk down things would have gone better for the cop:

Attorney Wolfgang Mueller was elected Vice Chair of the Michigan Unarmed Combat Commission. Mueller was previously appointed by Gov. Jennifer Granholm to the Commission. The U.C.C., formerly the Michigan Boxing Commission, will help promote all unarmed combat sports, including boxing and the rising sport of mixed martial arts.

Al Low, U.C.C. Commissioner, said "We are very pleased to have Wolfgang on the Commission. His legal background and concern for the athletes will provide a needed voice on the Commission." Mr. Mueller is a former competitive bodybuilder and has represented many professional boxers and other athletes.

[Detroit Stylin]

SPort do what you do. Simply becuase I live in the city and SEE FIRST HAND what people do [[suprisingly its alot of people who come in from out the city), and then when they get their asses handed to them THEN it becomes "Well the cops should be helld accountbale for their actions". Well what about those who resist or make a cops job harder for them when they are simply doing their job? Given what a cop goes through on a daily basis when you take an incident like this and times it sereval times over any given week IF the cop acted unjustly then I could understand why when you are simply dong your job and have to have a whole lot of restraint to keep from putting someone in the dirt for not following the orders of a person wearing a badge.

[Detwa]

Hmm, maybe its only me having grown up with plenty of drunk uncles, but it didn't look like the drunk had his right hand up in a fist to strike - it looked like he was doing that pointing/talking thing that drunks do! They put their hands up high and point right above their shoulders, very emphatically, like they're so sure of what they're saying.

That's what it looked like to ME. A planned punch looks nothing like that. At any rate, if the cop was so certain he was right, there was no need to lie. All of the lies in the written report speak volumes about his character and credibility.

[Meddle]

To some DPD uniforms, a person in cuffs is known as a target. Outside LaChambre' on Telegraph one night, I personally saw a plainclothes officer assault someone already in cuffs and being escorted by a 7-0 to his unit for transportation. The PC came up to the detainee from behind and jumped the guy for no reason at all.

And NO, 54 rounds from 3 officers is NEVER justified unless you're taking active fire.

[Detroit Stylin]

To some DPD uniforms, a person in cuffs is known as a target. Outside LaChambre' on Telegraph one night, I personally saw a plainclothes officer assault someone already in cuffs and being escorted by a 7-0 to his unit for transportation. The PC came up to the detainee from behind and jumped the guy for no reason at all.

And NO, 54 rounds from 3 officers is NEVER justified unless you're taking active fire.

That is completely different to one who is uncuffed, and resisting...

[bobby wobby]

So why did she call the cops? Good luck next time she or any of her cohorts get groped .

[Detroitej72]

Just what Detroit needs, another lawsuit.

[Patrick]

How much will the City pay out in a case like this...usually? $400K? $700K?

[CLAUDE G]

I saw the video, and this guy is going to get a nice pay off when the time comes.

If the guy didn't have any broken bones, I would say the pay off might be like $50,000.

[stasu1213]

It is clear that the troublemaker did raise his hand at the police. He should had kept walking. The policeman responded not knowing if that fist was a gesture or coming at him. The police was well in his right. Many people in Detroit complain about the violence in the city and the lack of police protection. Some of the same people complain when the police uses necessary force to handle troublemakers in the community. You can't have it both ways. This character had sexually assaulted a worker and was unruly. I am surprised that the worker didn't press charges against this person. A message has to be sent. DONT DISRESPECT THE BADGE.

[Zacha341]

Agreed. Had this been a citizens involvement 'arrest' style beat-down applied by a fellow bar person or what not the litigation could be at the private level... now its another hit to the city when we need it most. Great...

....While I do like seeing scumbags punched in the face, I don't like seeing them get rich, and that's exactly what's going to happen here. If the cop did his job properly, this scumbag would be in jail on sexual assault charges instead of negotiating with Detroit over how much money he'll get.

[Zacha341]

Somewhere in the range. The city has the deep pockets... Yeah.

How much will the City pay out in a case like this...usually? $400K? $700K?