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  1. #1

    Default Detroit cop sucker punches drunk at Casino.....suelarity ensues

    So when will this type of behavior simply be eliminated? Where's the federal monitor at?

    Robert Snell/ The Detroit News
    Detroit— A Livonia man is suing the city and two Detroit Police officers in federal court, claiming he was sucker-punched while being escorted out of the MGM Grand Casino — an incident captured on surveillance camera.
    The lawsuit is the second case in recent months filed against the city involving assault allegations and surveillance tape. In June, Police Chief Ralph L. Godbee placed an officer on restricted duty after The Detroit News publicized a civil rights lawsuit filed by a man who claims he was assaulted outside a Detroit gas station.
    The casino incident happened after officers responded in late July to a report that Patrick Poisson had inappropriately touched a "Grandette" waitress inside the casino in downtown Detroit. The waitress told police that a drunken man touched her butt with his right hand.
    The video contradicts the police version of events, the man's lawyer Wolfgang Mueller told The Detroit News on Monday.
    "When you look at the video and read the police report, it's describing two different incidents," Mueller said.
    The lawsuit seeks unspecified damages for violating Mueller's constitutional rights, assault and battery, malicious prosecution, gross negligence and intentional infliction of emotional distress.
    There was no immediate comment from a police spokeswoman.
    Poisson sued the city and Officers Arthur Dudal and Jose Ortiz on Friday in U.S. District Court in Detroit.
    The incident happened July 30. MGM security called Detroit Police after a report that Poisson inappropriately touched a waitress's butt and would not leave the U Me Drink bar.
    Dudal and a second officer, Hassan Chehab, approached Poisson, according to the lawsuit. Dudal told Poisson to leave immediately.
    Poisson started leaving the bar, and then turned to Dudal.
    The men stood face to face.
    "Suddenly, and without warning, Dudal threw a roundhouse right hand punch, striking [[Poisson) squarely on the nose, fracturing it," Mueller wrote in the lawsuit. "[[Poisson) was driven to the ground, temporarily knocked out. However, before [[Poisson) hit the ground, Dudal followed with a left hook to the head, driving Plaintiff to the floor."
    Dudal also punched Poisson on his right side, breaking two ribs, according to the lawsuit.
    On Aug. 1, Ortiz filed a warrant request to charge Poisson with assault and battery, and 4th degree criminal sexual conduct for touching the MGM waitress.
    In the request, Ortiz wrote that Poisson "turned around and charged at Officer Dudal. The defendant attempted to strike Officer Dudal with his right fist but missed," according to the lawsuit. "The defendant charged at Officer Dudal a second time. Officer Dudal, in an attempt to defend himself, struck the defendant's face with his left fist. The defendant fell to the ground and was still fighting with Officer Dudal."
    The officer's report failed to mention the waitress told him she didn't want to press charges, according to the lawsuit.
    Mueller's client denies inappropriately touching the waitress.
    The Wayne County Prosecutor's Office signed the warrant, based on Ortiz' report. The criminal sexual conduct charge was dismissed on Aug. 15 when the waitress appeared in court and said she didn't want to press charges.
    On Sept. 12, the prosecutor's office dismissed the remaining charges after watching the surveillance tape, according to the lawsuit.
    Mueller wants Dudal fired and charged with assault and battery.
    rsnell@detnews.com
    [[313) 222-2028


    From The Detroit News: http://detnews.com/article/20110926/...#ixzz1Z6FpKab1

  2. #2

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    Without audio on the video, I suspect the drunk guy was saying what drunk people usually say. But I don't see anything that called for the cop to punch the guy. The police defense story is an outright lie and causes more problems than it tries to cover up. It'll be interesting to see how this plays out.

  3. #3

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    Does *anything* happen to cops who pull this stuff other than "restricted duty" or a couple of weeks off? A month ago a couple of cops in California tasered a sick homeless man until he had a heart attack. He wasn't even fighting with the cops, he just wasn't doing what they told him because he was extremely ill. Desk duty for a week and the cops are back on the job. Jesus. The rule should be simple - you pull something blatantly against the rules, the lawsuit payout comes out of your paycheck, AND pension.

  4. #4

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    The video in the above link does not show what happened in the seconds before the officer threw a punch. The video has either been selectively edited, or for some reason the cameras were not able to pick up what was happening [[And I find that highly doubtful considering how many cameras are in a casino).
    Last edited by Johnnny5; September-26-11 at 07:37 PM.

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnnny5 View Post
    The video in the above link does not show what happened in the seconds before the officer threw a punch. The video has either been selectively edited, or for some reason the cameras were not able to pick up what was happening [[And I find that highly doubtful considering how many cameras are in a casino).
    You know what, I would say that you are a conspiracy theorist but I took a second look at the video and you are right. Just before the cop punched the guy the video skips as if something was cut out. Not saying the guy actually swung at the cop but something is messed up.

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by p1acebo View Post
    You know what, I would say that you are a conspiracy theorist but I took a second look at the video and you are right. Just before the cop punched the guy the video skips as if something was cut out. Not saying the guy actually swung at the cop but something is messed up.

    Here's a video from Freep.com that shows the entire episode.


    http://www.freep.com/article/2011092...text|FRONTPAGE

  7. #7

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    When you read the officer's statement and realize what a bold faced lie it is, the only way this plays out is with a pay out. Simply put, no matter what that drunk said, he never lunged at the officer, not once [[or twice, as his report stated). The cop had a clean, clear, wide open shot to that guys face with a right hand, and that guy was on his way to the ground before Officer Dudal got the 2nd punch in. To say anything else is unbelievable.
    Detroit officers get so much crap heaped upon them, and there are so many eyes watching, it is sad and pathetic that this is still allowed. I suppose able bodies willing to put on the uniform aren't lining up on the border to come into the city, but come on. This guy seriously doesn't belong in a police uniform anywhere. His credibility is shot if he is ever going to be called to testify in any future criminal case. What's the use of keeping him on the force?

    Here is the quote from the Detroit Free Press article about the incident:
    "In his request, Ortiz wrote that “The defendant turned around and charged at Officer Dudal. The defendant attempted to strike Officer Dudal with his right fist but missed. Officer Dudal defended himself by striking the defendant in the face with his right fist. The defendant charged at Officer Dudal a second time. Officer Dudal, in an attempt to defend himself, struck the defendant’s face with his left fist. The defendant fell to the ground and was still fighting with Officer Dudal. Officer Dudal and his partner …. Handcuffed the defendant as he resisted arrest.”
    - http://www.freep.com/article/2011092...text|FRONTPAGE

  8. #8

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    that guy won the lawsuit jackpot that night.......

  9. #9

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    My favorite quote from this article is this:

    Maria Miller, a spokesperson for the Wayne County Prosecutor’s office, said that the sexual conduct and resisting arrest charges were both dropped.

    “The female victim appeared at the preliminary examination and was placed under oath. She informed the judge … that she did not want to prosecute the case,” Miller said. “The case was adjourned for the prosecution to review the videotape of the incident. After a review of the tape it was determined that we did not have sufficient evidence to proceed and the case was dismissed.”

    Officers need to be held accountable for their actions

  10. #10

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    So why did she call the cops? Good luck next time she or any of her cohorts get groped .

  11. #11

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    yeah, that second version of the video pretty much shows that the guy did nothing, im sure he was spouting off at the mouth... but that could have been handled differently....

  12. #12

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    It really is scary how a cop can be this stupid. He knows there are cameras covering every inch of the casino and yet he can't wait until he gets off the premises. Makes you wonder how he would use his head in a critical situation.

  13. #13

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    This crap pi$$es me off too. I would never put myself in that position in the first place but wouldn't want a cop on an ego trip clockin me like that. They are paid professionals that are to subdue not retaliate. Especially with all the other help around. I don't care what that guy might have said about his mother. Fired and financially burdened. And don't mind if they drag his buddy down too since he helped fudge the report too.
    Now what's that old rap song...?

  14. #14

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    Seriously. Why can't people just do what they're supposed to do and not do what they're not supposed to do. It's like this whole region has this cloud of emotional dysfunction over it and stupid schitt happens because people don't have the maturity to take ownership and act like leaders.

  15. #15

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    I've watched this video, over and over, and am really baffled by the responses I've read thus far. I'm going to break this incident down, piece by piece from the beginning, then offer an alternate scenario.

    First, this guy committed 4th degree criminal sexual conduct, no denying that. The waitress stated such, the security attempted to remove the guy because of it, and surely, if the cameras are everywhere in the casino, it too was captured on tape.

    After this drunk refused to leave, DPD was called. Initially, it seems the guy agreed to leave. Yet while walking out, he then turns on the officers, gets in their face, and points a finger in the one officers face. What happens next is what justifies the use of force. Unless you guys are watching a different video, it seems the guy from Livonia is holding a clinched right fist in the air.

    As officers, we don't have to be shot before we can use deadly force to stop a threat. Nor do we have to wait for a drunk with a clinched fist in our face to strike us before we can strike them. Is the concensus here that officers are to be subjected to violence and injury PRIOR to being able to use force on somebody who committed a crime?

    After being struck, the guy fell to the ground, knocked out according to his lawyer. I find this funny, considering the guy continues to squirm upon hitting the ground, and then begins resisting the officer, trying to prevent him from handcuffing him. Thus, the officer delivers a couple strikes to him, in an effort to get him cuffed. Is the concensus here that the officer should have continued to struggle with the guy on the ground, risking injury to the officer and his partner, and even possibly allowing the suspect the opportunity to get away?

    After the guy is finally cuffed, that's it, he gets escorted away and is off to jail. Yet as is all too common in the city, the victim decides not to press charges. I ask, why not? For all we know, maybe this guy is a high roller at the casino, and maybe somebody convinced her NOT to press charges. Either way, those charges were dropped, as were the other charges, even though the guy is visibly trying to get his right arm free to prevent him from being handcuffed.

    Nothing these officers did falls out of line with what is allowed. The guy was drunk, uncooperative, and then turned on the officers, and appears to have raised a fist. This guy now thinks he won the lotto.

    Now, let's reverse the roll here. Instead of Detroit, let's move this to Livonia. Instead of a white guy, we'll make him a black guy. Now, this guy gets drunk and decides to play grab ass with the waitress serving him drinks. The bouncers get involved, and he tells them "Fuck off, I'm not leaving" or something to that effect. How do you think Livonia PD would handle a guy that turns on them, raises a fist, and then continues to struggle with them on the ground? If not the exact same outcome, the alternative is the guy getting tazered multiple times. Also, even without the victim, this case could have, and should have been prosecuted. There is undoubtedly video of the offense taking place, and just because the victim doesn't wish to testify doesn't mean there wouldn't be enough proof to possibly convict.

    Why do Detroiters tolerate this? Some guy can come into Detroit, get drunk, commit sexual conduct on a person, refuse to leave, confront the officers, raise a fist, and then the outcome gets him a day in court to try and get a payout? As an officer and a citizen of Detroit, I am sickened by this.

    The casino should have banned this guy for life. By not doing so, it shows that their patrons are allowed to fondle waitresses without consequences. The chief should release a statement, reviewing the video, and stand behind these officers, explaining why the outcome was justified.This guy wants their jobs? Is he serious? He does realize that he got off scott free for the crime he committed, right?

    This is a fine example of so many things. For one, it is one more example of why we should have tazers. This guy would have been dropped, cuffed, and there would be no discussion. Secondly, depending upon the outcome, this could prove to be another fine example of why there are disgruntled officers on the job, moral overall tends to be low, and why this department continues to lose officers to suburban departments and the federal government. We lost our first classmate a few months ago to border patrol, and as it stands, we look to loose several more to federal positions in the coming months and years. Why? Because people realize that it just isn't worth the headaches. By 10 years, I figure over 1/2-3/4 of my classmates will have gone on to MUCH greener pastures.

    Now I ask, how would you have dealt with this situation? If you have a better way, then by all means, head on down to 17825 Sherwood and sign up. People are always quick to be critical, but almost always unwilling to step up, put their lives on the line in an attempt to do a better job.
    Last edited by Supersport; September-26-11 at 11:26 PM.

  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Supersport View Post
    I've watched this video, over and over, and am really baffled by the responses I've read thus far. I'm going to break this incident down, piece by piece from the beginning, then offer an alternate scenario.

    First, this guy committed 4th degree criminal sexual conduct, no denying that. The waitress stated such, the security attempted to remove the guy because of it, and surely, if the cameras are everywhere in the casino, it too was captured on tape.

    After this drunk refused to leave, DPD was called. Initially, it seems the guy agreed to leave. Yet while walking out, he then turns on the officers, gets in their face, and points a finger in the one officers face. What happens next is what justifies the use of force. Unless you guys are watching a different video, it seems the guy from Livonia is holding a clinched right fist in the air.

    As officers, we don't have to be shot before we can use deadly force to stop a threat. Nor do we have to wait for a drunk with a clinched fist in our face to strike us before we can strike them. Is the concensus here that officers are to be subjected to violence and injury PRIOR to being able to use force on somebody who committed a crime?

    After being struck, the guy fell to the ground, knocked out according to his lawyer. I find this funny, considering the guy continues to squirm upon hitting the ground, and then begins resisting the officer, trying to prevent him from handcuffing him. Thus, the officer delivers a couple strikes to him, in an effort to get him cuffed. Is the concensus here that the officer should have continued to struggle with the guy on the ground, risking injury to the officer and his partner, and even possibly allowing the suspect the opportunity to get away?

    After the guy is finally cuffed, that's it, he gets escorted away and is off to jail. Yet as is all too common in the city, the victim decides not to press charges. I ask, why not? For all we know, maybe this guy is a high roller at the casino, and maybe somebody convinced her NOT to press charges. Either way, those charges were dropped, as were the other charges, even though the guy is visibly trying to get his right arm free to prevent him from being handcuffed.

    Nothing these officers did falls out of line with what is allowed. The guy was drunk, uncooperative, and then turned on the officers, and appears to have raised a fist. This guy now thinks he won the lotto.

    Now, let's reverse the roll here. Instead of Detroit, let's move this to Livonia. Instead of a white guy, we'll make him a black guy. Now, this guy gets drunk and decides to play grab ass with the waitress serving him drinks. The bouncers get involved, and he tells them "Fuck off, I'm not leaving" or something to that effect. How do you think Livonia PD would handle a guy that turns on them, raises a fist, and then continues to struggle with them on the ground? If not the exact same outcome, the alternative is the guy getting tazered multiple times. Also, even without the victim, this case could have, and should have been prosecuted. There is undoubtedly video of the offense taking place, and just because the victim doesn't wish to testify doesn't mean there wouldn't be enough proof to possibly convict.

    Why do Detroiters tolerate this? Some guy can come into Detroit, get drunk, commit sexual conduct on a person, refuse to leave, confront the officers, raise a fist, and then the outcome gets him a day in court to try and get a payout? As an officer and a citizen of Detroit, I am sickened by this.

    The casino should have banned this guy for life. By not doing so, it shows that their patrons are allowed to fondle waitresses without consequences. The chief should release a statement, reviewing the video, and stand behind these officers, explaining why the outcome was justified.This guy wants their jobs? Is he serious? He does realize that he got off scott free for the crime he committed, right?

    This is a fine example of so many things. For one, it is one more example of why we should have tazers. This guy would have been dropped, cuffed, and there would be no discussion. Secondly, depending upon the outcome, this could prove to be another fine example of why there are disgruntled officers on the job, moral overall tends to be low, and why this department continues to lose officers to suburban departments and the federal government. We lost our first classmate a few months ago to border patrol, and as it stands, we look to loose several more to federal positions in the coming months and years. Why? Because people realize that it just isn't worth the headaches. By 10 years, I figure over 1/2-3/4 of my classmates will have gone on to MUCH greener pastures.

    Now I ask, how would you have dealt with this situation? If you have a better way, then by all means, head on down to 17825 Sherwood and sign up. People are always quick to be critical, but almost always unwilling to step up, put their lives on the line in an attempt to do a better job.
    Supersport, would you agree, that with all the intense scrutiny that Detroit cops get lately, that thick skin and restraint should be essential? This man was in no way an actual threat to 2 rather well built police officers who should be well trained and disciplined in quick, efficient nullification of suspects. Hell, you can clearly see when Officer Dudal throws that first right hand, his follow through actually hits the 2nd police officer and he merely shrugs it off. And from what the video shows, clearly that first punch put that guys lights out. He was falling like a felled tree. I'd say with a good deal of certainty that the first punch put that guy out. The 2nd punch, and the fall to the floor, put that guy in a daze. I can understand the guy struggling with the officers afterwards, because it is safe to assume the guy had no idea what just happened, and it's a natural reaction to struggle while experiencing intense pain, disorientation, and having the feeling of being piled on by 2 large bodies on top.
    I disagree with the statement that tazers should be an absolute. Too many times have we seen the tazer be the first choice, and the fatal choice. Police officers are trained in the art of properly restraining someone without knocking them out of their socks, are they not? If they aren't, then perhaps they should be. Especially when there are two officers present, with one drunk idiot in a crowd full of witnesses and cameras.
    Look, this asshat drunk did a criminal act, there is no disputing that. But unfortunately, that act does not justify the officer's actions against him. And ultimately, the officer's actions carry more weight now than the drunk's. Especially considering the false police report submitted that blatantly misrepresented the actual events.
    Last edited by UpTown; September-27-11 at 08:50 AM. Reason: added add'l flotsam

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Supersport View Post
    I've watched this video, over and over, and am really baffled by the responses I've read thus far. I'm going to break this incident down, piece by piece from the beginning, then offer an alternate scenario.

    First, this guy committed 4th degree criminal sexual conduct, no denying that. The waitress stated such, the security attempted to remove the guy because of it, and surely, if the cameras are everywhere in the casino, it too was captured on tape.

    After this drunk refused to leave, DPD was called. Initially, it seems the guy agreed to leave. Yet while walking out, he then turns on the officers, gets in their face, and points a finger in the one officers face. What happens next is what justifies the use of force. Unless you guys are watching a different video, it seems the guy from Livonia is holding a clinched right fist in the air.

    As officers, we don't have to be shot before we can use deadly force to stop a threat. Nor do we have to wait for a drunk with a clinched fist in our face to strike us before we can strike them. Is the concensus here that officers are to be subjected to violence and injury PRIOR to being able to use force on somebody who committed a crime?

    After being struck, the guy fell to the ground, knocked out according to his lawyer. I find this funny, considering the guy continues to squirm upon hitting the ground, and then begins resisting the officer, trying to prevent him from handcuffing him. Thus, the officer delivers a couple strikes to him, in an effort to get him cuffed. Is the concensus here that the officer should have continued to struggle with the guy on the ground, risking injury to the officer and his partner, and even possibly allowing the suspect the opportunity to get away?

    After the guy is finally cuffed, that's it, he gets escorted away and is off to jail. Yet as is all too common in the city, the victim decides not to press charges. I ask, why not? For all we know, maybe this guy is a high roller at the casino, and maybe somebody convinced her NOT to press charges. Either way, those charges were dropped, as were the other charges, even though the guy is visibly trying to get his right arm free to prevent him from being handcuffed.

    Nothing these officers did falls out of line with what is allowed. The guy was drunk, uncooperative, and then turned on the officers, and appears to have raised a fist. This guy now thinks he won the lotto.

    Now, let's reverse the roll here. Instead of Detroit, let's move this to Livonia. Instead of a white guy, we'll make him a black guy. Now, this guy gets drunk and decides to play grab ass with the waitress serving him drinks. The bouncers get involved, and he tells them "Fuck off, I'm not leaving" or something to that effect. How do you think Livonia PD would handle a guy that turns on them, raises a fist, and then continues to struggle with them on the ground? If not the exact same outcome, the alternative is the guy getting tazered multiple times. Also, even without the victim, this case could have, and should have been prosecuted. There is undoubtedly video of the offense taking place, and just because the victim doesn't wish to testify doesn't mean there wouldn't be enough proof to possibly convict.

    Why do Detroiters tolerate this? Some guy can come into Detroit, get drunk, commit sexual conduct on a person, refuse to leave, confront the officers, raise a fist, and then the outcome gets him a day in court to try and get a payout? As an officer and a citizen of Detroit, I am sickened by this.

    The casino should have banned this guy for life. By not doing so, it shows that their patrons are allowed to fondle waitresses without consequences. The chief should release a statement, reviewing the video, and stand behind these officers, explaining why the outcome was justified.This guy wants their jobs? Is he serious? He does realize that he got off scott free for the crime he committed, right?

    This is a fine example of so many things. For one, it is one more example of why we should have tazers. This guy would have been dropped, cuffed, and there would be no discussion. Secondly, depending upon the outcome, this could prove to be another fine example of why there are disgruntled officers on the job, moral overall tends to be low, and why this department continues to lose officers to suburban departments and the federal government. We lost our first classmate a few months ago to border patrol, and as it stands, we look to loose several more to federal positions in the coming months and years. Why? Because people realize that it just isn't worth the headaches. By 10 years, I figure over 1/2-3/4 of my classmates will have gone on to MUCH greener pastures.

    Now I ask, how would you have dealt with this situation? If you have a better way, then by all means, head on down to 17825 Sherwood and sign up. People are always quick to be critical, but almost always unwilling to step up, put their lives on the line in an attempt to do a better job.
    Do the City of Detroit a favor, if you are indeed a cop, quit. It's officers that think the way you are thinking that has us dealing with Consent Decrees and hundreds of millions in lawsuit settlements as it is. And then you'll complain about the lack of equipment that the department has due to financial woes. As it stands, that officers idiotic decision has already cost he and his partner disciplinary action. But let's look at what else it will probably cost. It will wind up being a six figure settlement, which is the cost of about two or three scout cars, four or five guns, ammunition for the guns, several vests, etc.

    And yet you're argument is that it should be okay to treat a white guy unfairly in Detroit because they would treat a black guy unfairly in Livonia. The best weapon that a police officer has is his or her brain. Obviously, any officer that would pull a stunt like this in the most video surveilled place around, and then completely lie about it, is unarmed in that regard.

  18. #18
    bartock Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by kraig View Post
    Do the City of Detroit a favor, if you are indeed a cop, quit. It's officers that think the way you are thinking that has us dealing with Consent Decrees and hundreds of millions in lawsuit settlements as it is. And then you'll complain about the lack of equipment that the department has due to financial woes. As it stands, that officers idiotic decision has already cost he and his partner disciplinary action. But let's look at what else it will probably cost. It will wind up being a six figure settlement, which is the cost of about two or three scout cars, four or five guns, ammunition for the guns, several vests, etc.

    And yet you're argument is that it should be okay to treat a white guy unfairly in Detroit because they would treat a black guy unfairly in Livonia. The best weapon that a police officer has is his or her brain. Obviously, any officer that would pull a stunt like this in the most video surveilled place around, and then completely lie about it, is unarmed in that regard.
    To Supersport I'd say the only difference between the white guy/Detroit, black guy/Livonia comparison is that instead of a statement from Mr. Mueller, we'd be watching a "Geoff Fieger Press Conference" had this been the latter.

  19. #19

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    It is clear that the troublemaker did raise his hand at the police. He should had kept walking. The policeman responded not knowing if that fist was a gesture or coming at him. The police was well in his right. Many people in Detroit complain about the violence in the city and the lack of police protection. Some of the same people complain when the police uses necessary force to handle troublemakers in the community. You can't have it both ways. This character had sexually assaulted a worker and was unruly. I am surprised that the worker didn't press charges against this person. A message has to be sent. DONT DISRESPECT THE BADGE.

  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by kraig View Post
    Do the City of Detroit a favor, if you are indeed a cop, quit. It's officers that think the way you are thinking that has us dealing with Consent Decrees and hundreds of millions in lawsuit settlements as it is. And then you'll complain about the lack of equipment that the department has due to financial woes. As it stands, that officers idiotic decision has already cost he and his partner disciplinary action. But let's look at what else it will probably cost. It will wind up being a six figure settlement, which is the cost of about two or three scout cars, four or five guns, ammunition for the guns, several vests, etc.

    And yet you're argument is that it should be okay to treat a white guy unfairly in Detroit because they would treat a black guy unfairly in Livonia. The best weapon that a police officer has is his or her brain. Obviously, any officer that would pull a stunt like this in the most video surveilled place around, and then completely lie about it, is unarmed in that regard.
    Kraig and I have intensely disagreed in the past, but in this instance we're in complete agreement.

    The office was completely out of line. The subject, while he is a scumbag groping pervert, did nothing to the cop to warrant that level of force.

    While I do like seeing scumbags punched in the face, I don't like seeing them get rich, and that's exactly what's going to happen here. If the cop did his job properly, this scumbag would be in jail on sexual assault charges instead of negotiating with Detroit over how much money he'll get.

    I understand that being a cop is a hard job. You deal with a lot of scumbags. You also deal with a lot of good people too. However, simply can't slip, even if it's a pervert scumbag, you can't slip. You have to follow the rules. And you especially can't slip in a casino where your actions are more than likely recorded by at bare minimum two different angles.

    And yes, we are missing the audio context of the event, but there's nothing he could have said to warrant that level of physical force.

    We appreciate our police officers, but they simply cannot use excessive force.

  21. #21

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    Agreed. Had this been a citizens involvement 'arrest' style beat-down applied by a fellow bar person or what not the litigation could be at the private level... now its another hit to the city when we need it most. Great...
    Quote Originally Posted by 48091 View Post
    ....While I do like seeing scumbags punched in the face, I don't like seeing them get rich, and that's exactly what's going to happen here. If the cop did his job properly, this scumbag would be in jail on sexual assault charges instead of negotiating with Detroit over how much money he'll get.

  22. #22

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    I agree ,maybe the cop shouldn't have punched him,But if I was on the jury,that scum-bag wouldn't get a penny.

  23. #23
    ferntruth Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Supersport View Post
    I've watched this video, over and over, and am really baffled by the responses I've read thus far. I'm going to break this incident down, piece by piece from the beginning, then offer an alternate scenario.

    First, this guy committed 4th degree criminal sexual conduct, no denying that. The waitress stated such, the security attempted to remove the guy because of it, and surely, if the cameras are everywhere in the casino, it too was captured on tape.

    After this drunk refused to leave, DPD was called. Initially, it seems the guy agreed to leave. Yet while walking out, he then turns on the officers, gets in their face, and points a finger in the one officers face. What happens next is what justifies the use of force. Unless you guys are watching a different video, it seems the guy from Livonia is holding a clinched right fist in the air.

    As officers, we don't have to be shot before we can use deadly force to stop a threat. Nor do we have to wait for a drunk with a clinched fist in our face to strike us before we can strike them. Is the concensus here that officers are to be subjected to violence and injury PRIOR to being able to use force on somebody who committed a crime?

    After being struck, the guy fell to the ground, knocked out according to his lawyer. I find this funny, considering the guy continues to squirm upon hitting the ground, and then begins resisting the officer, trying to prevent him from handcuffing him. Thus, the officer delivers a couple strikes to him, in an effort to get him cuffed. Is the concensus here that the officer should have continued to struggle with the guy on the ground, risking injury to the officer and his partner, and even possibly allowing the suspect the opportunity to get away?

    After the guy is finally cuffed, that's it, he gets escorted away and is off to jail. Yet as is all too common in the city, the victim decides not to press charges. I ask, why not? For all we know, maybe this guy is a high roller at the casino, and maybe somebody convinced her NOT to press charges. Either way, those charges were dropped, as were the other charges, even though the guy is visibly trying to get his right arm free to prevent him from being handcuffed.

    Nothing these officers did falls out of line with what is allowed. The guy was drunk, uncooperative, and then turned on the officers, and appears to have raised a fist. This guy now thinks he won the lotto.

    Now, let's reverse the roll here. Instead of Detroit, let's move this to Livonia. Instead of a white guy, we'll make him a black guy. Now, this guy gets drunk and decides to play grab ass with the waitress serving him drinks. The bouncers get involved, and he tells them "Fuck off, I'm not leaving" or something to that effect. How do you think Livonia PD would handle a guy that turns on them, raises a fist, and then continues to struggle with them on the ground? If not the exact same outcome, the alternative is the guy getting tazered multiple times. Also, even without the victim, this case could have, and should have been prosecuted. There is undoubtedly video of the offense taking place, and just because the victim doesn't wish to testify doesn't mean there wouldn't be enough proof to possibly convict.

    Why do Detroiters tolerate this? Some guy can come into Detroit, get drunk, commit sexual conduct on a person, refuse to leave, confront the officers, raise a fist, and then the outcome gets him a day in court to try and get a payout? As an officer and a citizen of Detroit, I am sickened by this.

    The casino should have banned this guy for life. By not doing so, it shows that their patrons are allowed to fondle waitresses without consequences. The chief should release a statement, reviewing the video, and stand behind these officers, explaining why the outcome was justified.This guy wants their jobs? Is he serious? He does realize that he got off scott free for the crime he committed, right?

    This is a fine example of so many things. For one, it is one more example of why we should have tazers. This guy would have been dropped, cuffed, and there would be no discussion. Secondly, depending upon the outcome, this could prove to be another fine example of why there are disgruntled officers on the job, moral overall tends to be low, and why this department continues to lose officers to suburban departments and the federal government. We lost our first classmate a few months ago to border patrol, and as it stands, we look to loose several more to federal positions in the coming months and years. Why? Because people realize that it just isn't worth the headaches. By 10 years, I figure over 1/2-3/4 of my classmates will have gone on to MUCH greener pastures.

    Now I ask, how would you have dealt with this situation? If you have a better way, then by all means, head on down to 17825 Sherwood and sign up. People are always quick to be critical, but almost always unwilling to step up, put their lives on the line in an attempt to do a better job.

    I'm sorry, were you drafted to be a police officer? No one forced YOU to take the job - in fact, its been my experience that most of the morons who carry a badge and a gun should not be doing so. Based on your comments, I think you belong in that category as well.
    YOU chose to do what you do for a lving. If you have a problem with it, find another job.

    Either way, you don't get to arbitrarily strike someone....and people wonder why some [[including me) have absolutely no respect for cops.

  24. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by ferntruth View Post
    in fact, its been my experience that most of the morons who carry a badge and a gun should not be doing so..
    Nice generalization and slamming of a noble profession. A few bad apples don't spoil the whole bushel.

  25. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Detroitej72 View Post
    Nice generalization and slamming of a noble profession. A few bad apples don't spoil the whole bushel.
    Agreed. My experience with DPD has been very good. Maybe I've always lived in good parts of town or been lucky, but I have no complaints. When I was 16, I came home and the alarm at the house was going off. I called the police, they were there within 10 minutes, and they walked through entire house with me to make sure it was safe. This was on Outer Drive in the early 1990s.

    Then there was the whole fiasco with LAX. So the two times I've ever had any real interaction with DPD, they've been very good. Obviously, this isn't a representative sample, but let's not throw out the baby with the bathwater.

    Now, keeping that in mind, and with full respect to Superstar, I have a hard time justifying the amount of force used to subdue this guy. My buddy is on the border patrol, and another one is an ICE agent. They both agree. It was excessive.

    I'm smart enough to know that I don't know everything. There were events that led up to that video that deserve to be known. I know for me, I thought the whole McDonald's "spill coffee in my lap, make me a millionaire" thing was preposterous...until I learned that the coffee was so hot that it burned through her pants, her skin, and all the way to the bone. And that there were multiple documented warnings given to this franchise about their hot beverage safety. Kinda changes things a little, right?

    I think the force was excessive. And I think the cops involve have a right to a full, un-tampered investigation. And I think that no matter what these guys did, it should have no relevance to how we look at DPD or police as a whole. We've already got the feds overseeing the complaints from the early 2000s, and -- although the pace has been unacceptable -- they are doing the things necessary to improve compliance.

    How about we reserve judgment and see how this all plays out before jumping to conclusions.

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