DEGC to run Woodward Light Rail?

**Russix** · September-15-11, 12:59 PM

The Feds are moving in the opposite direction: http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...light-rail-fta

They have reason to fear that DDOT is not stable enough to run the operation and they probably question who the hell the DEGC is and what makes them knowledgeable enough to built and operate a mass transit system?

**bailey** · September-15-11, 12:59 PM

Originally Posted by rjlj

Can you name the sophisticated projects of large scale that the DEGC have put together besides the Book Cadillac?

http://www.degc.org/images/gallery/D...ort-091007.pdf... 30 years of "Hall of FAME" accomplishments listed on page 10. The people mover is #3 on that list. So yeah.. .awesome list there considering the PM is pretty much the leading example to the world of what NOT to do when planning a mass transit system.

**kraig** · September-15-11, 01:34 PM

Originally Posted by rjlj

Can you name the sophisticated projects of large scale that the DEGC have put together besides the Book Cadillac?

Campus Martius, GM's Hamtramck Assembly Plant, Marathon's Expansion, Compuware, Quicken Loans, EDS, Blue Cross Blue Shield, Ernst & Young, the Riverwalk. That's just to name a few, they've done some good work. We have to remember, before it becomes a transit sytem, it needs to get developed. That's where the DEGC can come in. A transit auhority is something that will probably get put on the table in the future, but doing so from the onset will have the transit line going the route of DARTA. I think we can all agree that it may be a good idea to start assembling property and laying track before we add the extra layers of red tape and bureaucracy.

**DetroitHabitater** · September-15-11, 01:52 PM

Wow that 'hall of fame' is embarrassing....

**BShea** · September-15-11, 02:31 PM

I've been covering this project, in its various forms, since at least 2006 or 07 [[my mind is jelly right now from a two-week cold and transit exhaustion).

It was not much of a secret that personality conflicts have been an issue for this project.

Norm White and DDOT not running the project is being greeted as great news by transit insiders that I've talked to.

DEGC runs the DDA, which has committed $9 million to the project ... through the M1 Rail consortium. So having George Jackson running this project likely means M1's concerns about DDOT's plans could find a more receptive audience.

The city needs M1's money. M1 has issues with DDOT's plans [[at lease some M1 members; they're not a united front on this). My theory is that the administration grasped at some point that M1 was serious about walking away, or at least some of its members. That would leave this project DOA.

Bing doesn't want a dead rail project around his neck, not this far into the game. So it was only nature White and DDOT had to go.

And if you read what I and the Freep have written from interviews with the feds, they haven't been shy about their concerns about DDOT's ability to fund and operate such a system. They want an RTA. And apparently, short of an RTA for now, it's been deemed wiser to have DEGC do this.

The "experts" thing isn't DEGC being experts at building a train system -- URS was hired for that. They're experts at business and political relationships, especially with some members of M1 Rail.

**Novine** · September-15-11, 03:14 PM

"They're experts at business and political relationships, especially with some members of M1 Rail."

Experts at cronyism and protecting self-interested parties? I'll grant Demolition Jackson is an expert at that. Which is really what the project is all about. It's not about getting a great transit system that will serve the city and region. It's about getting a system that will serve the self-interests of various parties.

**corktownyuppie** · September-15-11, 03:18 PM

Originally Posted by Novine

"They're experts at business and political relationships, especially with some members of M1 Rail."

Experts at cronyism and protecting self-interested parties? I'll grant Demolition Jackson is an expert at that. Which is really what the project is all about. It's not about getting a great transit system that will serve the city and region. It's about getting a system that will serve the self-interests of various parties.

Time will tell whether the transit system is great, good, or shitty. But as for serving the self-interests of the various parties, they are the people paying for the project. If we don't want to cater to their self-interest, all we have to do tell them they don't need to pay.

It sucks. I agree. But this is the reality.

**Bishop** · September-15-11, 06:26 PM

Agree! They will be the facilitator to get it built only......RTA coming sometime after. Hopefully, soon.
More DEGC......less clowncil is always a better alternative!

**Novine** · September-15-11, 10:05 PM

"But as for serving the self-interests of the various parties, they are the people paying for the project."

They are? We are. Most of the money is coming from federal funding which is our money.

**Gorath** · September-15-11, 10:38 PM

There has to be more then a few buildings standing in the way of "progress" along the entire length of Woodward. Because of that it would make sense to put DEGC in charge of M1 rail.

**Mackinaw** · September-15-11, 11:30 PM

Just get it done already. Why delay actual revitalization a moment longer?

In my mind this will just be an olive branch to Demo Jackson to do something right for a change and totally redeem the DEGC. Perhaps he and his team could bring the donors back to their senses rather than pretending that they know something about the particularities of rapid transit. If it moves fast and isn't too expensive, it will be wildly successful and accomplish everyone's goals. Now just do it and revolutionize this city.

**HistoryNotHisStory** · September-16-11, 07:26 AM

The DEGC doe not not believes in a fair bidding process.

**rb336** · September-16-11, 07:39 AM

Originally Posted by kraig

Campus Martius, GM's Hamtramck Assembly Plant, Marathon's Expansion, Compuware, Quicken Loans, EDS, Blue Cross Blue Shield, Ernst & Young, the Riverwalk. That's just to name a few, they've done some good work.

They seem to do fine when it comes to BIG projects, but it often seems like everything has to be a BIG project to get their approval, while any number of smaller projects get pushed asside because hey, that property could be used for something bigger. give me ten smaller projects over another BIG project almost any day

**HistoryNotHisStory** · September-16-11, 07:43 AM

Originally Posted by rb336

They seem to do fine when it comes to BIG projects, but it often seems like everything has to be a BIG project to get their approval, while any number of smaller projects get pushed asside because hey, that property could be used for something bigger. give me ten smaller projects over another BIG project almost any day

The past Detroit Mayors were pivotal in these relocations and expansion.

Furthermore, the community in the region desire that the old Tiger Staduim site remains a baseball park. Chevrolet and GM knows this. However, DEGC has disregarded GM, Chevy, and the people.

**urbanhat** · September-16-11, 07:57 AM

I'm a bit concerned DEGC doesn't exactly have the expertise to build a rail system.. however, they're probably a better bet than anyone else. At least they'd have a handle on the finances and would be smart enough to get help from someone who actually knows transit.

The best thing they could do is help facilitate establishment of an RTA.

**Hermod** · September-16-11, 08:10 AM

Originally Posted by urbanhat

I'm a bit concerned DEGC doesn't exactly have the expertise to build a rail system.. however, they're probably a better bet than anyone else. At least they'd have a handle on the finances and would be smart enough to get help from someone who actually knows transit.

The best thing they could do is help facilitate establishment of an RTA.

Look; the clowncil isn't going to "build" the line, DDOT isn't, DEGC isn't, and a RTA isn't.

They are going to hire a rail contractor to build the line. Choose an entity to manage the contract with the least amount of "pay for play" built into their corrupt officialdom.

When the line is finished, you hire an outfit like Veolia to operate it.

The managing entity just needs a small staff to supervise the contractor.

**DetroitScooter** · September-16-11, 08:11 AM

Originally Posted by Gorath

There has to be more then a few buildings standing in the way of "progress" along the entire length of Woodward. Because of that it would make sense to put DEGC in charge of M1 rail.

Exactly what I was thinking, Gorath. I can envision a sort of selective bowling ball rolling down the length of Woodward taking out anything that doesn't fit some sort of BS litmus test on "usability", "streetscape" or "infrastructure" improvements. God help anything slightly down on it's luck bordering Woodward. Take your pictures now folks.

**Mackinaw** · September-16-11, 09:48 AM

Originally Posted by rb336

They seem to do fine when it comes to BIG projects, but it often seems like everything has to be a BIG project to get their approval, while any number of smaller projects get pushed aside because hey, that property could be used for something bigger. give me ten smaller projects over another BIG project almost any day

Indeed Rb336; and I also agree with History's post. In Detroit and other similarly situated cities, the 'economic redevelopment' pressure over the last several decades has been to strive for exclamation points that are supposed to shock everyone into thinking 'wow, this city is back on track, let me go do business there.' But the 'economic redevelopment' establishment in these cities that still struggle haven't taken their continuing misfortunes as a sign that there are better approaches. Smaller, organic development is what works. Harness and implement the demand that exists, even if it doesn't produce skyscrapers, rather than trying to generate a demand for things that do not fit. I am sure that the overall subsidies handed out would be smaller if the City went with the flow and engaged smaller developers-- ready, willing, and able to invest, and looking only for gap financing-- rather than big ones.

Having said that, Woodward Light Rail is a big project, and it's in the spotlight, so perhaps DEGC is in its comfort zone. Still, I don't feel that this is a natural fit, and I don't totally trust them. Hopefully this is just a short term thing to get everyone on board, break ground ASAP, and then hand it off to a bona fine [[hopefully regional) transit authority. Let's do this!

**BShea** · September-16-11, 02:53 PM

The only building that will be demolished in the rail plans developed by URS is the building next to the Rosa Parks bus center, the one adjacent to the People Mover stop there. I cannot recall the name of the building, but I believe it has that Moci clothing store and Quizno's or something and a pawn shop in it [[can't call if they're vacant). It's at the NW corner of Michigan and Washington.

This is where the southern terminus of the line will be [[it loops west from Woodward to link to the bus station).

**1953** · September-16-11, 03:14 PM

If DEGC is allowed to take over, the line will be demolished before it is complete.

P.S. Why wouldn't you want your transportation department in charge of a transportation project?

**BShea** · September-16-11, 03:21 PM

The Federal Transit Administration has said it doesn't believe DDOT should be handling this. They're providing the funding, and they've expressed skepticism publicly about DDOT's operational funding plan and ability to run this system without cannibalizing the bus system even more than it already has.

The ideal situation is an RTA. Until one of those is in place, it appears the Bing administration believes the DEGC is better equipped to deal with the political issues involved in this than DDOT, which is a transit agency. The engineers designing the system remain the same people from URS.

**ghettopalmetto** · September-17-11, 07:12 AM

Originally Posted by Hermod

Look; the clowncil isn't going to "build" the line, DDOT isn't, DEGC isn't, and a RTA isn't.

They are going to hire a rail contractor to build the line. Choose an entity to manage the contract with the least amount of "pay for play" built into their corrupt officialdom.

When the line is finished, you hire an outfit like Veolia to operate it.

The managing entity just needs a small staff to supervise the contractor.

Correctamundo! DEGC's role in construction management would be similar to that of the owner of a building construction project. They keep track of progress, conduct weekly meetings, approve change orders, and administer payment. No doubt, third-party inspectors will be hired [[This is usually written into the construction contract) to verify that the Work meets the specifications of the project. With that said, it irks me a bit that the City of Detroit apparently doesn't have such experience and needs to resort to a mysterious and secretive QUASI-public agency to protect the ENTIRELY public interest.

The work that DEGC would be managing would be strictly financial, where they have experience. The engineers and inspectors would be on-board to ensure compliance with the construction documents.

You most definitely wouldn't want DDOT managing this project, as they have zero experience with a construction project of this magnitude. They simply aren't equipped for it.

**stromberg2** · September-17-11, 01:06 PM

^^^^
Yep, DDOT has enough trouble handling the busses. Or should I say, not running the busses!

Stromberg2

**stinkytofu** · September-17-11, 01:10 PM

Originally Posted by BShea

The only building that will be demolished in the rail plans developed by URS is the building next to the Rosa Parks bus center, the one adjacent to the People Mover stop there. I cannot recall the name of the building, but I believe it has that Moci clothing store and Quizno's or something and a pawn shop in it [[can't call if they're vacant). It's at the NW corner of Michigan and Washington.

This is where the southern terminus of the line will be [[it loops west from Woodward to link to the bus station).

That building is butt ugly [[if I'm thinknig of the right one). No harm.

**MSUguy** · October-03-11, 09:35 PM

Update:

The Detroit Economic Growth Corp. and the Detroit City Council have informally worked out a framework for the makeup of an authority to manage construction of the city's $528 million light rail line on Woodward Avenue.

The tacit agreement on the board represents détente on the issue between Mayor Dave Bing's administration -- now represented by the DEGC rather than the city transportation department and former CFO Norm White -- and the council, which previously rejected a plan that it said would have given the mayor too much control.

Under the compromise, the mayor would have two appointees, the council would have two, and a fifth person would be jointly agreed upon, council President Charles Pugh said.

The authority would oversee construction of the nine-mile rail line running from downtown to the city limit at Eight Mile Road, and it potentially could become the board that has operational oversight of the system, Pugh said.

The issue could come up for council approval within the next week or two, he said. The plan is to have all details worked out before it's presented to the council for a vote.

"It's unofficially official," Pugh said.
http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...ding-authority