Obstructed views in Comerica Park?

[jackie5275]

Unfortunately you're right about it being the style. I assume most ballparks have a similar thing going on.

Not just major league parks, but minor league ones too. I went to a Mudhens game earlier this summer. The noise was alot worse.

[rjk]

I think some people are looking back on Tiger Stadium's design with some slightly rose-colored glasses. People are absolutely correct that the majority of the upper deck seats at TS were the BEST seats in baseball bar none. However, in order to get those seats, there were thousands of the WORST seats in baseball in the lower deck.

I think you're right, that's the way it is with most things when you're looking back at them.

I recall going to a game in the mid 70's and my dad complaing to the ticket agent for selling us some seats directly behind a pole. I don't think there were 15,000 there that day. They were terrible seats.

Just give me a hot dog and a beer and a team on a 11 game winning streak and Comerica is the best stadium in the world. Just win baby.

[jackie5275]

As far as the discussion of "production" in today's stadium environment, a lot of it has to do with the survival of the game. Baseball is a fantastic sport built around the slow-building suspense leading up to intense bursts of action. For people who enjoy the game, the true appreciation of the game comes from the anticipation that develops waiting for the big moments to occur. Unfortunately for baseball, that type of fan is a dieing breed.

Over the past 50 years, more and more people prefer football over baseball. Some feel it is has to do with changing attention spans. In football, ever 30-40 seconds SOMETHING happens because of the play clock. In baseball, in can be up to a minute between pitches at times and even then, unless it is a strike out or a ball is put in play, there isn't an real action happening. This is tough for a customer base to tolerate when they are used the constant motion of sports like hockey and basketball, the clockwork repetition of football, or the countless variety of entertainment options at their fingertips that baseball has to compete with. In order to compete with that, baseball stadiums have had to fill those gaps in action with sights and sounds.

That is the real issue. From a business perspective, baseball is not only competing against other sports, but also movies, television, music, and the internet as a part of the overall entertainment industry. In order to survive, it has to cater itself to the overall market of customers rather than strictly to purists. The question you have to ask yourself is this. Would I rather have the same fan experience as it was in 1960 and risk baseball disappearing or do I accept the modern fan experience and continue to enjoy MLB baseball?

I agree alot. The attention span of most people is too short to enjoy a baseball without add ons. However, I think that there's more too it, which is the marketing of "how can we get more money out of the fans who attend?".

When I went to games at Tiger Stadium, I would spend my money on my ticket, a scorecard/program, & some basic ballpark food & drink. How much money did the Tigers get out of me? During the 80s, I could do this for less than $20. When I go to a game at Comerica Park, I can spend my money on merry-go-round & ferris wheel rides, 50-50 raffles, test your batting or pitching skill booths, scorecard/program, get your picture taken as a souvenir, get your face painted, eat in the bar/lounge/restaurant, and whole wide array of food & drink, [[some of which I think, as a baseball purist, shouldn't even be offered at a ballgame) in additiion to my ticket, plus my parking now goes to the organization as I tend to park closer to the stadium in an Illitch lot. Now I will spend about $60 just for myself. If I take my family, I can easily spend $200 if we buy into all the bells & whistles.

Buying into all the bells & whistles is baseball's, major & minor league, marketing goal. If I'm going to a game by myself, I can say no to many things at Comerica. However, If I take my family, I'm going to get caught up in the bells & whistles. The marketing is also for folks who will only go the game once or twice a season to make it an event for the family who don't know what to expect or plan for once they get there, & who will spend their money a little more freely because it's something they don't do all the time.

[Downriviera]

There were some obstructed view seats at Tiger Stadium and Olympia, but not thousands. I can't speak for Tiger Stadium, but for the Olympia no one ever sat in those seats. They were basically a standing room ticket and you just went and found a good standing spot, which there was plenty of. The corporate fans of today need more than just the true spirit of the game. They need the blaring music and all the amenities [[sushi, croissants, etc.) to be entertained properly. Most real fans just love the game and want to be as close to it as possible. Most of these people can be found watching the game in sports bars and at home. I still go, just not as much and I don't enjoy it like I used to. As for these young fans who never saw a game at Tiger Stadium and love Comerica Park. Take them to a game at Wrigley Field and then see what they say.

[jackie5275]

I recall going to a game in the mid 70's and my dad complaing to the ticket agent for selling us some seats directly behind a pole. I don't think there were 15,000 there that day. They were terrible seats.

I think in the 70s & 80s before Illitch bought the team & computerized the ticket sales, the guys at the ticket booths were told to sell the crummy seats first. I also think they had alot of individual discretion with the seats they sold. During the 80s, I wasn't a season ticket holder, but went individually to about 40-45 games a year. Over a few years, I got friendly with a guy in one of the booths who would always give me a good seat, like a single box or 1st row reserved, always somewhere between 1B & 3B. Just like saying goes, it's who you know.

[jackie5275]

Ravine, have you sat in a box seat during a day game? It's a serious compliant that I hear all the time. There's no protection from the sun and the field is arranged in such a way that it beats down on you.

Very true. You will bake there even for an night game in June or July, especially if you sit anywhere on the left side.

Comerica is adequate but it's inferior to some of it's contemporaries [[Camden, Jacob's, PNC, San Fran)

PNC was built after Comerica, but by the same architect firm. PNC basically took Comerica's blueprint & improved upon it.

[EL Jimbo]

There were some obstructed view seats at Tiger Stadium and Olympia, but not thousands. I can't speak for Tiger Stadium, but for the Olympia no one ever sat in those seats. They were basically a standing room ticket and you just went and found a good standing spot, which there was plenty of. The corporate fans of today need more than just the true spirit of the game. They need the blaring music and all the amenities [[sushi, croissants, etc.) to be entertained properly. Most real fans just love the game and want to be as close to it as possible. Most of these people can be found watching the game in sports bars and at home. I still go, just not as much and I don't enjoy it like I used to. As for these young fans who never saw a game at Tiger Stadium and love Comerica Park. Take them to a game at Wrigley Field and then see what they say.

I didn't say there were thousands of "obstructed view" seats, but there were certainly thousands of seats in the lower deck that certainly had a limited view vertically due to how far the upper deck overhang stuck out. It was definitely a less than pleasurable experience to sit in seats where I couldn't see the path of any ball hit higher than a sharp line drive to determine whether it was fair or foul or how far it is traveling.

In the game in 99 I mentioned we sat down the 3rd base line between 3rd and home. I specifically remember a home run hit into the upper deck in left field. We never saw the ball. I watched the left fielder turn and run back a few steps before stopping and looking up. Then the crowd started roaring. I turned to my dad and said, "well I guess that was a home run".

That ticket might not have been listed as an obstructed view seat, but my view was definitely obstructed. And there were thousands of other seats just like mine all around the lower deck of Tiger Stadium.

[MojoRacer]

The COPA BLOWS Rezzureckt TIGER STADIUM Now WE SEE THA GAME!

[EL Jimbo]

PNC was built after Comerica, but by the same architect firm. PNC basically took Comerica's blueprint & improved upon it.

I think it would have been more interesting if Comerica Park had been built on the sight that Ford Field currently is on. While I like what the architects did with Ford field to incorporate the warehouse into the design, I think it would have been more interesting to use that warehouse in the design of a baseball park.

[Roq]

Just give me a hot dog and a beer and a team on a 11 game winning streak and Comerica is the best stadium in the world. Just win baby.

Exactly. Are people going there to watch the Tigers kick ass or to take in the history [[or lack therein) of the ballpark?

[corktownyuppie]

Seriously. Nostalgia aside, when people put this much energy into resurrect a past that has long passed....

We call these "White People Problems".

[justanotherboy]

Most times it is just the gaurd rail that makes them obstructed and it isn't an issue.

As far as CopA - who cares, most Detroit stadiums [[including the Big House) are so silent until something happens that it doesn't matter how close or how far away you are. Your just going to sit there and small talk with the guy next to you anyway and yell at the guy in front of you to sit down.

[downtownguy]

There were some obstructed view seats at Tiger Stadium and Olympia, but not thousands.

Tiger Stadium did have thousands of obstructed view seats; about 10,000 in fact. However, when you subtract that from it's capacity of nearly 53,000, it still had more "non-obstructed" seats than the CoPa. And much, much better seats at that.

[drjeff]

I go to about 30 Tigers games a year dating back to Tiger Stadium days and I've been to a lot of stadiums around the country. The hate for Comerica Park makes no sense really.

1) The lower deck seats are not farther from the field than they were in TS, and are actually a lot better because none are obstructed view.

2)Yes, the upper deck is farther than it was in TS, but it's actually very close for a modern stadium. Try sitting in the upper deck in Baltimore, Atlanta, San Diego, etc. and you may as well stay home. My season tickets are in row B of section 218; they are damn good seats and only cost $19.

3) The thing that is unique about Comerica Park is its openness- you can walk around the lower deck concourse and see the field no matter where you are. A lot of people hate the carousel and ferris wheel, but so what? Who's forcing you to ride them? They do not get in the way of anything as they are far from the field.

4) The sun is a factor, but it is in most other modern parks as well. Try going to a day game in Baltimore- I've seen over 50 games in Camden Yards and it is hot as balls and you can't see anything from the concourse. Camden Yards has great character, but Comerica Park is a better place for watching baseball.

5) I do agree on the constant loudspeaker noise, but that's the same everywhere.

6) I miss the TS upper deck as much as anyone. There will never be anything like it again. But it doesn't mean Comerica Park isn't a good stadium.

[schulzte]

Tiger Stadium was perfectly fine for a time when player salaries were $100,000 per year and a team was doing very well to average an attendance of 20,000 per game. That time went away after the reserve clause died.

As a baseball fan, I enjoyed Tiger Stadium more than Comerica Park. But I was never there when a crowd exceeded 25,000 fans. Usually it was less than 15,000, and you could sit where you wanted. Obstructed views didn't matter, you just moved over five seats and then you could see home plate or first base or whatever. The back ten or so rows of the lower grandstand were really bad due to the tunnel vision, and lots of the upper outfield seating was pretty poor because large chunks of the outfield weren't visible. People talk about how cool the right field overhang was, but for spectators in right, it was pretty bad.

The upper deck is a loooooong way away at the Copa. However, when your selling 80% capacity instead of 40% capacity, obstructed views actually start to mean something, and luck of the draw becomes unacceptable when upper deck tickets are $25 instead of $8 like the Upper Grandstand Reserves were at Tiger Stadium.

http://www.newolympia.blogspot.com

[Vox]

Versus


If you take a close look at the profile views of each park, it's easy to see that TS sucked in terms of the sheer number of obstructed view seats. Anything behind the support poles will cut off your view of SOMETHING. I don't miss that place in the least.

[Vic_doucette]

The place can get hot as blazes during the day, with nary a patch of shade to be found.

There ARE obstructed view seats at Comerica Park, Dan. I was at the ALCS game in 2006 when Maggs hit the game-ending homer to give the Tigers the pennant. My best friend and I were there, very high up in the upper deck far down along the third base line. We were so high up that the main scoreboard blocked our view of a good portion of the outfield. When Magglio hit that ball, we couldn't tell what happened to it, except by watching the reaction of the players on the field.

We figured it out pretty quickly.

[Steve bennet]

If you take a close look at the profile views of each park, it's easy to see that TS sucked in terms of the sheer number of obstructed view seats. Anything behind the support poles will cut off your view of SOMETHING. I don't miss that place in the least.

Ohh big deal. I'd rather sit behind a pole with a slightly obstructed view in a place that has character than some bland corporate ballpark. The atmosphere is one of the reasons you go to a game. With Comerica, you might as well just sit at home and watch the game, at least then you don't have to put up with the loud annoying music and constant announcements.

[eno]

Ohh big deal. I'd rather sit behind a pole with a slightly obstructed view in a place that has character than some bland corporate ballpark. The atmosphere is one of the reasons you go to a game. With Comerica, you might as well just sit at home and watch the game, at least then you don't have to put up with the loud annoying music and constant announcements.

My feelings exactly. Add to that the cost of parking and I'm a homebound Tiger fan.

[Vox]

Ohh big deal. I'd rather sit behind a pole with a slightly obstructed view in a place that has character than some bland corporate ballpark. The atmosphere is one of the reasons you go to a game. With Comerica, you might as well just sit at home and watch the game, at least then you don't have to put up with the loud annoying music and constant announcements.

Oh yeah, that whole character thing. I guess that the urine smells and the sewer line explosions were a HUGE part of the ambience. Not only that, but there were only MAYBE 20000 good, unobstructed seats in the whole place. So if you were in the lower deck for a packed game [[71 All star game) you were shit out of luck seeing the Reggie Jackson homer. Also others as well. It's all perspective.

Every single baseball field in the majors today follows the same formula. If TS were still being used, they would have made the same changes, eventually. I guess that you are just bitter and unwilling to embrace change. That's your right. But wait until the first World Series win at Comerica.
Instant.Hallowed.Ground...

[Vox]

My feelings exactly. Add to that the cost of parking and I'm a homebound Tiger fan.

Crosspost to Detroit is Cheap.

[CLAUDE G]

You got to keep in mind that when Tiger Stadium was built, it didn't look anything like the Tiger Stadium we remember. It was expanded several times during the 97 years it stood on the corner, very simmilar to a home with multiple additions.

When the place was built in 1912, it was only a single deck from dugout to dugout with a left field and right field pavilion. From there, the second deck was added in 1922, and the rest of the stadium as we all remember it was completed around 1937.

Granted there where some obstructed seats, but that was due to the design of the building and because of those flaws is what I believe made Tiger Stadium great.

The size of the piece of land used to build Tiger Stadium dictated its final design, unlike Comerica park where the park was designed first before it was taken into consideration how much land it would require to build.

I got season Tickets for the Tigers, and the only place worth sitting is in the Tiger Den...
http://www.satelliteguys.us/metro25/tigers/

Used to have seats in Section 118, and they where pretty good. However I also had seats in Section 140 and the seats where terrible because they where slanted towards the outfield and not home plate.

[softailrider]

I loved Tiger Stadium, but I love baseball and the Tigers even more. I'm not crazy about Comerica Park [[although I think it has some strong points and is not the abomination that some make it out to be,) but the truth is that if the Tigers played on wooden planks laid across the town dump, I'd still want to go to see them.

I have a friend who is 20 years younger than me. He was at Comerica for some of the great post-season games in 2006. Just as I have terrific memories from Tiger Stadium, he has those from Comerica Park. That's what a baseball lover should gain from trips to see his or her team, and mine are not better than his because they're older or because they're from Tiger Stadium.

It may somehow be chic to heap scorn on the Ilitch clan, and it is perfectly natural to be somewhat disgusted by the "corporate" influence on the parks in which our darling sports teams play, but if you're a fan of Tiger Baseball and you let any of that bullshit ruin, or even interfere with, your experience of Tiger Baseball, you're a damn fool and the nemesis of your own happiness.

We can love yesterday all we want, but it won't love us back.

All of the above very true, very thought provoking.

[Roq]

That's your right. But wait until the first World Series win at Comerica.
Instant.Hallowed.Ground...

Hehe, I'm going to get a good chuckle when this happens. I seriously don't get the angst over Tiger Stadium -- the building they play in means more then seeing the team playing!? Hell with that, I'm going to see the Tigers whenever and wherever I can.

[EL Jimbo]

Lot of old men yelling at clouds here. Seriously, I can't wait until I get to that age where I feel the need to bitch about anything and everything. Some people just can't handle change.

Don't get me wrong, there were a lot of things about Tiger Stadium I really liked. However, there were also some things about it that REALLY sucked and couldn't be chalked up as being "character". In my opinion, from a fan experience standpoint, I enjoy Comerica Park more. It just doesn't have the nostalgia after 11 years that Tiger Stadium had in 100 years.

Also, a lot of those seats were more than just "slightly" obstructed. Some of us would rather not spend money to stare at a metal pole all night [[unless there was a naked lady dancing around it).