Fullerton St. Detroit Is this a good, bad or okay area?

[stromberg2]

English, nice little tribute to Jjaba upthread! I miss him, too. I would love to see him posting again. He's the reason I became hooked on this site. Did you ever go to Dally today?

Stromberg2

[Detroitej72]

You know [[and I think you & I have had this conversation before), I don't think I realized how bad it was growing up. I mean, if you're a kid growing up there, and it's all you know... how do you know any different? I began to realize otherwise in undergrad down South -- I think I've mentioned that some of the kids called the Winn-Dixie near campus the "dirty grocery store." I didn't think it was dirty at all, just older. It didn't have green meat or expired cans. Then I got a job, started traveling and realized that, oh. There's an entire world beyond West Davison.

Coming back to the city after living away for a few years was difficult at first. A year ago, I was so paranoid & weird just being out and about. Now I'm used to being home again. And I miss the old 'hood, but it'll never be the same again.

I really miss jjaba...

I thought pretty much the same about my neighborhood. In the earlier years, we had some chain stores left, especially at 7 & Gratiot. The homes were much older than those of my cousin's street in the suburbs, but it was home to me. When I got older, I started to notice the peeling paint, uncut lawns and abandoned building creeping up. These days when you look how it is now, back then it was paradise!

[SWMAP]

There's a story behind Melody Farms and it goes like this: the owner, and it might have been Tom Angott, helped out a very large number of immigrants from Lebanon & the middle east to buy grocery & party store businesses. A sort of private bank for lending to start-ups was thoughtfully developed. The interst on loans was good and the terms good. One requirement was that the stores should carry Melody Farms products - which is why they were seen all over Detroit.

[English]

Stromberg - nope, I lost my lunch at a community event [[literally) and am home sick, watching college football. Wish we had a lead on jjaba. I think someone told me at the picnic they were in touch, but I can't remember who.

Detroitej72 - yes, it really was paradise in retrospect. I wouldn't trade a thing about my childhood or teen years these days.

SWMAP - thanks for the backstory! I haven't had any Melody Farms dairy in years. Interesting about the Spartan connection; that's pretty much the only grocery store chain I knew growing up.

[econ expat]

There's a story behind Melody Farms and it goes like this: the owner, and it might have been Tom Angott, helped out a very large number of immigrants from Lebanon & the middle east to buy grocery & party store businesses. A sort of private bank for lending to start-ups was thoughtfully developed. The interst on loans was good and the terms good. One requirement was that the stores should carry Melody Farms products - which is why they were seen all over Detroit.

The George family founded/owned Melody Farms. They did indeed finance many Chaldean markets, requiring the stores to feature Melody Farms.
A few years ago, there was some lawsuits [[anti trust?) and the co. was sold.
Tom George [[one of the sons) owns Harbor Town Market & some suburban markets.

[SWMAP]

Yes, it was George. Tom Angott was also in the dairy business, but I wasn't so sure it was Melody Farms. Both of them were very civically active in the City.

[Cincinnati_Kid]

I remember Melody Farms products!!! Whatever happened to it?

You know [[and I think you & I have had this conversation before), I don't think I realized how bad it was growing up. I mean, if you're a kid growing up there, and it's all you know... how do you know any different? I began to realize otherwise in undergrad down South -- I think I've mentioned that some of the kids called the Winn-Dixie near campus the "dirty grocery store." I didn't think it was dirty at all, just older. It didn't have green meat or expired cans. Then I got a job, started traveling and realized that, oh. There's an entire world beyond West Davison.

Coming back to the city after living away for a few years was difficult at first. A year ago, I was so paranoid & weird just being out and about. Now I'm used to being home again. And I miss the old 'hood, but it'll never be the same again.

I really miss jjaba...

Not to sound dumb, but who's Jjaba ??

[Richard]

Once again you guys come through with flying colors and a good history lesson to boot ,thanks
I was kinda looking for something cheap to lay my head in the evenings as I will not have much time for anything else but I guess nothing gained if I end up with more headache.

[Detroitej72]

There's a story behind Melody Farms and it goes like this: the owner, and it might have been Tom Angott, helped out a very large number of immigrants from Lebanon & the middle east to buy grocery & party store businesses. A sort of private bank for lending to start-ups was thoughtfully developed. The interst on loans was good and the terms good. One requirement was that the stores should carry Melody Farms products - which is why they were seen all over Detroit.

Mike George and his brother Tom [[Immigrants from Iraq) were the founder's of Melody Farms. They bought out what was left from the demise of Ira Wilson & Son's Dairy and became Melody Farms, and were quite successful throughout the early 90's.

They were sold to Dean's Foods and the rest, as they say, is history...

[Zacha341]

It depends on what you've 'adapted' to... rendering the rough to seem normal - ala a day in the 'hood. Like the the 'new norm' but IMO it's gotten pretty grim around there.

The decline started about 10 years ago with the close of that police precinct at Elmerst and Livernois... The housing crash eroded the property value, middle class residents left... crime increased.

And some abandoned homes in the area are no longer boarded up. Like the torched house where little Mariah Smiths body was found in on Waverly.

And that grim gas station nearbly that sold the cupful of gasoline.

I try not to go to any ghetto-hood gas stations in that area. It simply is not safe, nor is that this a walkable community. Everything is done by car... Even the Dexter bus line is very slow.

For example, I was considering a property on Tyler and declined after I saw what that street has become. Sure, there are some really nice homes architecturally speaking on Fullerton, Tyler etc. that would be great IF they be 'removed' and relocated elsewhere.

Drive 'onto' these streets and you can see what goes on... Things have even gotten worse for the Russell Woods area around Tyler and even Ewald Circle on that other side of Davison that was holding out up thru the last 5 years.

Davison Ave. hosts one of the few McDonalds with bullet-roof glass. Joy...

Dexter particularly is rough - a shadow of what is once was. Some of the occupied streets off Dexter [[including Fullerton) have beautiful brick homes, many with ornate fixtures, leaded glass and marble and plaster. Yet, location... LOCATION!

These are examples of some of the most majestic two-family and single family of Detroit, yet to have to deal with Dexter and Linwood and some of the burnt outs area and blocks... ummm.

Though I do try to patronize that Ace hardware up on Davison near Linwood...

Dexter-Davison area has the distinction of being one of Detroit's toughest neighborhoods.

[Zacha341]

Yes, I loved Russell Woods... it is starting to decline now as the older solid homeowners have started to leave [[some retiring to senior residence, or passing away). I know of two prominent elders who left, relocating one to 1300 Lafayette, the other couple retiring to apartment living nearby downtown. What will save that area are new families, determined to keep up their property, vigilant to have create strong block clubs and security.

Russell Woods, one of Detroit's fine old neighborhoods, is located a block or two south of Davison between Dexter and Livernois. When it was developed, it was a substantial, predominately Jewish community. There are many, many former synagogues along Dexter, Linwood, and 14th Streets. Now it's a predominately middle class black neighborhood. Architecturally it reminds me of the University District but with more varied and somewhat smaller houses. There are many beautiful 2-family flats on Buena Vista. Alas, Russell Woods is now a true island neighborhood. The surrounding areas are pretty much devastated.

[Zacha341]

This house is a classic example of what I call Detroit's "Majestic Flats"! You cannot find well appointed two-family flats like this other places, especially not in the density you find them in central and mid-west Detroit.

These sterling brick homes are found on Virginia Park, Waverly, Clairmont, Burnlingham, Elmherst etc. ETC. and some of the finest examples on Fullerton street. Problem is that all around is blight and a high crime. Dexer Ave. is simply not a street you'd want to walk about after dark! This is not a walkable area.

There are now streets dotting that area where every other house his abandoned. Many not even boarded up. Just open to fire, crime and drug activities. At least this one is boarded up and hopefully not yet stripped. I'll have to take a drive to find it.....

The house seems in not bad shape.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/MULTI-FAMILY...item4aae6fbca6


Thanks.

[East Detroit]

Let the Florida carpet bagger keep the house.

[English]

Zacha341 -- what's up, homegirl? You KNOW my old 'hood! You know it! [[Including the inimitable Jerry's Pizza, right across the street from the 10th precinct! :-D)

You are so right about Ewald Circle. I've never revealed it here on the forum, but that was my street. My grandparents bought a home there in 1968 and my grandma sold in 2006. They purchased the home next door in 1984. I lived there from '84 until 2000, when I moved to Midtown. Then I lived there again from April '04 to June '05, when I took over the homestead after my mom moved to Southfield.

I was on this forum back then, and had been for a year by the time of my move back to the 'hood. I had considered purchasing the house from my folks. But then I lost my DPS job, got accepted to Michigan, and got a suburban teaching job. The grad students in my department convinced me to move up to A2 -- "it'll be easier." But it was still hard at first.

Our block was fine until around '03. It started getting a little scary when I moved back. All kinds of mess was going on, and for the first time ever, there was an abandoned home across the street. Grandma and them had surveillance cameras installed -- we were shut up tighter than most businesses in Detroit. High fences, barbed wire, alarms, bars, the whole nine. My folks were also armed. I wasn't, but some of my hustling uncles were [[as the next oldest after Dad told me) "keeping a watch on the house."

All the same, it wasn't unliveable until, as Zacha said, the last 5 years of hell. I hate to tell G-ma's business, but it's a matter of public record -- she sold her home in the fall of '06 for nearly $100K. They started to sell ours, but folks didn't like the prospective buyer. Now it's likely too late.

I don't like to drive that street today. It's so... different. I cannot believe the changes after only 12 years. 12 years ago this fall, we were all so sure that Detroit was going to spend the next 10 years gentrifying like every other major city had. I sometimes wonder -- if I'd known then what I know now, would I have come home, or would I have followed the original post-high school plan and never look back? I guess I'll never know.

[English]

Also -- the generation that held down the fort isn't coming back, unfortunately. They lived through the Depression and WWII, so they were far more community and civic minded than most of today's generations are. Also, you had one important thing -- a critical mass of productive adults at home during the day. My grandma and her friends were, thanks to good union wages and the auto industry, largely stay at home wives, mothers, and homemakers. They watched the blocks of the old ghettohoods like a hawk, even during the worst of the crack years. Once their husbands retired, the older men were there as well.

Part of the story of what happened is that the first generation to move out into the West Side started to get too old to keep house & pass away during the economic and political disasters of 2000-2010. The Boomers had either moved away or were not willing to take over "Mama's house," much of my Generation X who could had thrown up the deuces and swore that they'd NEVER live in Detroit after they were adults [[a pact made in childhood for many of us), and those left behind really didn't give a d*mn... many had enough to do surviving & keeping their personal lives together. They weren't trying to mow lawns, engage in neighborhood watch or block club activities, etc. Think of Maslow's hierarchy of needs... you have to have the basics covered before you can give a d*mn about appearances or even being your neighbor's keeper.

So that time is gone, and unless we radically shift our social and economic policy at all levels of society, not only is it not coming back, things are likely to get worse before they ever get better. Sad to say, but true.

[Jimaz]

Not to sound dumb, but who's Jjaba ??

He's a DetroitYES member who has been missing for a long time. He's the most colorful character here like a lovable grandfather with a bawdy sense of humor.

Google site:atdetroit.net Jjaba for a sample.

I have his email address but I've already invited him back once. I don't want to pester him. He knows he's loved here.

[Cincinnati_Kid]

He's a DetroitYES member who has been missing for a long time. He's the most colorful character here like a lovable grandfather with a bawdy sense of humor.

Google site:atdetroit.net Jjaba for a sample.

I have his email address but I've already invited him back once. I don't want to pester him. He knows he's loved here.

Oh, ok Thx for the reply.

[softailrider]

It depends on what you've 'adapted' to... rendering the rough to seem normal - ala a day in the 'hood. Like the the 'new norm' but IMO it's gotten pretty grim around there.

The decline started about 10 years ago with the close of that police precinct at Elmerst and Livernois... The housing crash eroded the property value, middle class residents left... crime increased.

And some abandoned homes in the area are no longer boarded up. Like the torched house where little Mariah Smiths body was found in on Waverly.

And that grim gas station nearbly that sold the cupful of gasoline.

I try not to go to any ghetto-hood gas stations in that area. It simply is not safe, nor is that this a walkable community. Everything is done by car... Even the Dexter bus line is very slow.

For example, I was considering a property on Tyler and declined after I saw what that street has become. Sure, there are some really nice homes architecturally speaking on Fullerton, Tyler etc. that would be great IF they be 'removed' and relocated elsewhere.

Drive 'onto' these streets and you can see what goes on... Things have even gotten worse for the Russell Woods area around Tyler and even Ewald Circle on that other side of Davison that was holding out up thru the last 5 years.

Davison Ave. hosts one of the few McDonalds with bullet-roof glass. Joy...

Dexter particularly is rough - a shadow of what is once was. Some of the occupied streets off Dexter [[including Fullerton) have beautiful brick homes, many with ornate fixtures, leaded glass and marble and plaster. Yet, location... LOCATION!

These are examples of some of the most majestic two-family and single family of Detroit, yet to have to deal with Dexter and Linwood and some of the burnt outs area and blocks... ummm.

Though I do try to patronize that Ace hardware up on Davison near Linwood...

The housing stock in Detroit was / is / could be again absolutely beautiful. When I see those beautiful brick buildings neglected, crumbling or stripped it makes me sick.
Compare those dwellings to the new crap they're putting up around the city.

[Zacha341]

Isn't that the truth! And indeed a shame to see these properties go down to abandoned hulks.

The housing stock in Detroit was / is / could be again absolutely beautiful. When I see those beautiful brick buildings neglected, crumbling or stripped it makes me sick.
Compare those dwellings to the new crap they're putting up around the city.

[Zacha341]

Hey Eng! Jerry's Pizza! LOL! Funny if my neighbors order a pizza from their it's great. If I do it's nasty! Nonetheless, good place which has stood the test of time for that area!

Yeah as a dyed-in-the wool mid-west-sider I've been watching these areas all of my life, my dad selling insurance door to door when I was a little girl. I remember him referencing these area as 'grand' and they once were - I recall going over to Boston/ Edison, E Circle, Longfellow etc as a treat! My parents originally lived on Owen near Woodward/ Clairmont in an apartment building long gone.

Then we lived off Chicago on Longfellow during the riots. Most of that was destroyed then, and never the same. Many of those fine apartments long gone. Then later I grew up in the blue-collar, wood-frame home oriented area of 48208 [[Grand River/ Warren) watching the Jeffries [[I-96) freeway being laid!

So on holidays or what not when we'd visit other more well-to-do family and friends over by Dexter and Davison, Russel Woods etc. it was a treat to see these well appointed middle-and upper class areas. Those homes on Boston and Chicago, Atkinson etc. looked like mansions to a kid! Homes with fireplaces, huge yards and driveways like those over by Davison was rich-life! We did not have property like this over off Warren and I-96!

To see the decline has been hard and personal to me. I rarely go to the other side of the tracks [[south of Grand River -- Warren, Lawton, Vinewood, Tillman etc) now. That area declined in the late 80's. I do circulate in the Davison-Dexter-Livernios area with caution. This area was once very dense per the two family flat homes. It's hard to see a huge 3 bed-room per floor brick two-family flat hollowed out, every window and door missing.

And many people by Livernios and E. Circle/ Dexter and Davison etc. are having it hard now - declining sharply. The KIND of resident has changed! Many left that could. A friend had a two family flat on Pasadena off 14th and finally had to move after repeated break ins. The density of these areas could occur again, but only once crime and squalor is addressed.

Zacha341 -- what's up, homegirl? You KNOW my old 'hood! You know it! [[Including the inimitable Jerry's Pizza, right across the street from the 10th precinct! :-D)

You are so right about Ewald Circle. I've never revealed it here on the forum, but that was my street. My grandparents bought a home there in 1968 and my grandma sold in 2006. They purchased the home next door in 1984. I lived there from '84 until 2000, when I moved to Midtown. Then I lived there again from April '04 to June '05, when I took over the homestead after my mom moved to Southfield.

I was on this forum back then, and had been for a year by the time of my move back to the 'hood. I had considered purchasing the house from my folks. But then I lost my DPS job, got accepted to Michigan, and got a suburban teaching job. The grad students in my department convinced me to move up to A2 -- "it'll be easier." But it was still hard at first.

Our block was fine until around '03. It started getting a little scary when I moved back. All kinds of mess was going on, and for the first time ever, there was an abandoned home across the street. Grandma and them had surveillance cameras installed -- we were shut up tighter than most businesses in Detroit. High fences, barbed wire, alarms, bars, the whole nine. My folks were also armed. I wasn't, but some of my hustling uncles were [[as the next oldest after Dad told me) "keeping a watch on the house."

All the same, it wasn't unliveable until, as Zacha said, the last 5 years of hell. I hate to tell G-ma's business, but it's a matter of public record -- she sold her home in the fall of '06 for nearly $100K. They started to sell ours, but folks didn't like the prospective buyer. Now it's likely too late.

I don't like to drive that street today. It's so... different. I cannot believe the changes after only 12 years. 12 years ago this fall, we were all so sure that Detroit was going to spend the next 10 years gentrifying like every other major city had. I sometimes wonder -- if I'd known then what I know now, would I have come home, or would I have followed the original post-high school plan and never look back? I guess I'll never know.

[masterblaster]

I started a thread over 3 years ago about the decline of the Dexter-Davison neighborhood. I took many pictures of abandoned or dilapidated apartment buildings and 2-family flats. Please take a look. It's sad. The neighborhood has great potential, but the abandonment and subsequent stripping/torching of structures has made it impossible.

[[Within this thread is a link to a thread where I showed photos of the devastation of the 3200-3300 block of Sturtevant. Check that out as well. Most of those beautiful families are now torched or demolished.)

http://atdetroit.net/forum/messages/...tml?1210098239

[masterblaster]

It is heart-warming to see the neighborhood of Russell Woods discussed on this forum. It is arguably Detroit's most overlooked 'historic district', and despite being surrounded by blight on all 4 sides, it is well-maintained and 95% intact. It has some really unique 2-3 family flats on Tyler, Buena Vista, and Cortland streets.

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=4075+t...K42yygT2kIiODQ

To the original poster, if are looking to buy in the area, why not give a look at this pretty, leaded-glassed house on Fullerton on the OTHER side of Dexter in the Russell Woods neighborhood ? [[look at the low taxes!) Less than 10k

http://www.realestateone.com/homes/2...troit-MI-48238

Also, one of those pretty 2-family flats is available on Buena Vista. [[Look at the interior photos, today's multi-family residences don't have nearly the detail and charm!)

http://www.realestateone.com/homes/2...troit-MI-48238

To the moderator, I am not a real estate agent, please don't delete links, I'm just showing the unique housing stock!

[Zacha341]

^^^^The brick work on that 4075 Tyler Ave property really speaks to how detailed these homes are. Note the bayed front window with top treatment and the roof slopping...