CH. 7 loads bus with Suburbanites afraid of the CIty and brings them down

**Barbara_10** · September-02-11, 07:40 PM

"Bartock- don't know how I would feel if most of the neighborhood I grew up in and had all my fond memories of became blighted and burnt out, but I'm guessing that I wouldn't want to go back there, or through there, and I sure as hell wouldn't want someone judging me because I didn't."
You have just described me.
I was born and raised there in the 1940's and 1950's.

Steve bennet · September-02-11, 07:40 PM

Originally Posted by corktownyuppie

We can't? Hell, that's why I decided to move back here 3 years ago. Well, I should probably start packing.

Depends on how you define urban living. If simply living within the city boarders define urban living, then fine.

You still get none of the advantages of big city like other then ascetic value. Viable areas in Detroit are too disconnected from each other. If you don't own a car, things become much more difficult. It's a lot like living in a backwards suburb but with more interesting people, taller buildings, and a stupid monorail going in circles on a track. As much as I prefer Detroit, I still don't consider it a true urban experience, but it's the closest thing we have I guess.

**corktownyuppie** · September-02-11, 08:05 PM

If by urban experience, you mean walkable with mass transit, well Detroit gets an F.

I'm here because of the DIA, shows at the Music Hall, Gem Theatre, Cliff Bells, Opera House, Fisher Theatre. I hit 2-3 ballgames per month. Spend some time at the DAC. Throw dice at the casino once a month or so. Jog down the riverwalk weekly. Walk to Mudgie's regularly.

I like the fact that not every person I meet grew up in the suburbs, went to MSU, and bought a house to be close to the nearest mall. I like that I can meet new transplants from DC, down south, and the west coast when I'm at the bars. I like that I can go to Centaur and see a mix of young, old, black, white.

Now I know that this Detroit that I'm referring to is probably not the day-to-day experience of 98% of Detroiters. I get that.

But I think the Detroit I spend my time in has a lot to offer. And most of it is a secret to most of the residents in this area. I'm too far in my career to move to Chicago or New York. If I weren't, I'd probably already be moving there.

But I'm here. I'm liking it here. And I want to spend the time I'm here continuing to grow this part of the city so that in 15 years, there will be more people like me staying in Detroit rather than shipping out of the state. It's working. 10 years ago, none of my college buddies or fraternity brothers would've even considered downtown Detroit. This year, more than a handful have already started shopping for lofts and apartments.

**Autoracks** · September-02-11, 08:33 PM

Originally Posted by DetroitPole

I guess it's only fair, because I avoid going to the suburbs if at all possible. I always feel like I'm going to die of boredom.

Not sure we need these kind of people. They're the flotsam of society. The lumpen proletariat. If you're afraid of simply going to any city [[outside of those covered by government travel warnings) in 2011 and you live in an industrial society, you're about on par intellectually with someone who is afraid of lunar eclipses as a sign that the gods are displeased.

I dont disagree entirely with the post. However, this flotsam you describe living in the suburbs have money to spend downtown. The areas that need money the most probably never see a suburban dollar that isn't going toward a bag of dope. There are several Detroits, Downtown, the rest of the city, and a few pockets of affluence.

**Detroitdave** · September-03-11, 04:43 AM

I've lived out of state for over 25 years and just recently moved back.
I know some people, that live out of state, that feel the same way about the entire STATE of Michigan, including all the so called "safe" suburbs of Detroit . They see no difference between ANYTHING north of 8 mile and ANYTHING south on 75 and ANYTHING west of Telegraph .

If you came across most of the people on that tour anywhere out side the state of Michigan they would say I from [[ whatever suburb in the metro area) ,and if you came across a person from any other major city they would say they are from the closest major city. I'm not knocking them for wanting to live in a safe city, but how can you judge an city you live less than 30 miles from , but never step foot in?.

Like I've said before on this site, you aren't going to convince most of the older people that live outside the city to come back , or even to visit all the wonderful things the city has to offer ,when they can go to Mejier , Walmart, Applebees, Olive Garden,their local mall, or go spend their money in Chicago, New York, the bay area, the outer banks , Europe, Up north, wherever.

Most have no interest in the cultural things in and around the city. I find the city interesting and look forward to new places to eat and shop and visit in the city,I just don't have the same feeling about anything like that in the burbs? , you can go to ANY burb anywhere and get the same experience , where in Detroit I get to see, and taste, HISTORY, and can share with others .

I know folks that are going to arts , beats and eats , but won't step foot in Detroit for the Jazz fest ? , I'm doing both !
Like I've said before , it's regionalism that will make Detroit and Michigan and better place for all .

**SaintMe** · September-04-11, 02:45 PM

Originally Posted by ColonelMack

Not sure I get you guys.. you plead for folks to say positive things about Detroit, you abhor the fact that suburbanites never come downtown. So someone does something positive, at least tries something, and all you can do is mock it.

Sad really

Plus one . . .

**Gistok** · September-04-11, 03:40 PM

Originally Posted by ColonelMack

Not sure I get you guys.. you plead for folks to say positive things about Detroit, you abhor the fact that suburbanites never come downtown. So someone does something positive, at least tries something, and all you can do is mock it.

Sad really

ColonelMack.... a LOT of suburbanites do come downtown... and are not afraid to.

But this move by Channel 7 almost smacks of hypocracy. All of the major local news channels have been inundating suburbanites [[as well as city folk) year after year after year with ALL the major problems with crime in Detroit [[yeah, I know it sells advertising time)... and yes... crime does happen frequently in Detroit.

But when every 5PM newscast opens with "who did what... and to whom... in Detroit"... all the negative news stories get reinforced in many suburbanites mindset as someplace to avoid completely.

Then once every great while the local TV stations will do a "nice story" about Detroit... but this one comes off especially ironic. Channel 7 should have labeled it "Let's see how all of those folks we made scared of Detroit react if we take them down there"...

It would be like Fox News taking Tea Partyers on a tour of the Democratic National Headquarters... and say to them "see not every liberal is stupid"....

**MSUguy** · September-04-11, 10:42 PM

Originally Posted by Gistok

ColonelMack.... a LOT of suburbanites do come downtown... and are not afraid to.

But this move by Channel 7 almost smacks of hypocracy. All of the major local news channels have been inundating suburbanites [[as well as city folk) year after year after year with ALL the major problems with crime in Detroit [[yeah, I know it sells advertising time)... and yes... crime does happen frequently in Detroit.

But when every 5PM newscast opens with "who did what... and to whom... in Detroit"... all the negative news stories get reinforced in many suburbanites mindset as someplace to avoid completely.

Or we could actually address the crime problem in this city, while the local news do tend toward the negative those stations also cover every major positive development that we talk about here. One the people sited that very violent weekend as one of the reasons why the don't like coming into the city. Yes, all those incidents took place miles away from downtown, but crime in the neighborhoods does make a lot of people reluctant to come downtown. There is nothing wrong telling people that downtown is very safe despite what is going on elsewhere in the city, but it does not get to the root of the problem. If you want less inundating of suburbanites with negative stories about city actually reduce the the number of negative stories about the city.

**Gistok** · September-05-11, 01:24 AM

Originally Posted by MSUguy

Or we could actually address the crime problem in this city, while the local news do tend toward the negative those stations also cover every major positive development that we talk about here. One the people sited that very violent weekend as one of the reasons why the don't like coming into the city. Yes, all those incidents took place miles away from downtown, but crime in the neighborhoods does make a lot of people reluctant to come downtown. There is nothing wrong telling people that downtown is very safe despite what is going on elsewhere in the city, but it does not get to the root of the problem. If you want less inundating of suburbanites with negative stories about city actually reduce the the number of negative stories about the city.

Addressing the crime problem? Sounds simple... but it's not....

Also they only talk about a fraction of the developments in Detroit that we do on this forum. It just isn't that newsworthy to many of them.

**coracle** · September-05-11, 07:50 AM

Originally Posted by Gistok

ColonelMack.... a LOT of suburbanites do come downtown... and are not afraid to.

But this move by Channel 7 almost smacks of hypocracy. All of the major local news channels have been inundating suburbanites [[as well as city folk) year after year after year with ALL the major problems with crime in Detroit [[yeah, I know it sells advertising time)... and yes... crime does happen frequently in Detroit.

But when every 5PM newscast opens with "who did what... and to whom... in Detroit"... all the negative news stories get reinforced in many suburbanites mindset as someplace to avoid completely.

Then once every great while the local TV stations will do a "nice story" about Detroit... but this one comes off especially ironic. Channel 7 should have labeled it "Let's see how all of those folks we made scared of Detroit react if we take them down there"...

It would be like Fox News taking Tea Partyers on a tour of the Democratic National Headquarters... and say to them "see not every liberal is stupid"....

I don't think you make a fair comparison [[ there's that word "fair" again)
There's a big difference between the results of the two activities. When you bring suburbanites into the City they can clearly see it's populated with normal nice rational people like themselves and they don't see any of the law breakers as reported. Whereas if Fox News took Tea Party members on a tour of the DNC they would see proof positive that every liberal is stupid.

**Assata** · September-05-11, 10:15 AM

Great Reply corktownyuppie ... are you a CSer?

**Assata** · September-05-11, 10:28 AM

Good stuff ... Thanks corktownyuppie.

**Assata** · September-05-11, 11:57 AM

I have a better understanding of how US Vietnam veterans feel.

I moved out of Detroit, MI 8 years ago into New England, where my daughter graduated, sold my home there and dropped my belongings off back in Detroit and began touring the 'world'. Spent a year touring Africa, Europe and Asia. Lived with families in both Africa and Asia. Recently returned from Asia where I spent 3 weeks in Vietnam [[both North & South). Lived with a Vietnamese family in the mountains, a 5 hour drive from Hanoi. Visited the war museums, Ho Chi Minh Tunnels and paddled down the Mekong Delta ... tears flowed at all sites ... Coming back to the US and Detroit is shock. It takes time to readjust. I now understand what the Vietnam Vet's and recent Vet's must go through.

So many people in the developing countries admire the West and want to be here. They are groomed through the media, that getting to the West is a dream fulfilled. I began a documentary and interviewed Asians on various topics of what they knew of Americans or the Western way of life and our history. It was very interesting.

Yes, I too was shocked and set-back when I finally settled myself in Detroit for my second summer here. But I took out my shovel and created a beautiful wonder to anyone passing my space, and my neighbors even began to spruce up their lawns as well. I now eat meals from my backyard garden and offer the surplus to kitchens feeding the public. One of my neighbors was surprised that corn would grow in the city, she just made the best creamed corn ever!

Can't remember where I found this quote but now traveling, I now have a better understanding of it's message: Travel is the cure to ignorance.

**Gistok** · September-05-11, 03:23 PM

Originally Posted by coracle

I don't think you make a fair comparison [[ there's that word "fair" again)
There's a big difference between the results of the two activities. When you bring suburbanites into the City they can clearly see it's populated with normal nice rational people like themselves and they don't see any of the law breakers as reported. Whereas if Fox News took Tea Party members on a tour of the DNC they would see proof positive that every liberal is stupid.

See there you go again.... you need to turn off your TV once in a while...

There are intelligent people in ALL categories.... whether they're socialist, communist, capitalist, democratis and republicans. By watching the Fox News [[Opinion) Channel [[and it's so easy to spot that they got you... hook, line and sinker), you are parroting their line that all liberals must be stupid... not a claim that an enlightened person would make. Think for yourself, and stop taking the "requiring little thought process" that Fox News spews out every day.... "that them librul's must be stupid"....

Hannity, Beck and O'Reilly are COMMENTATORS.... not news reporters or history/political teachers.... why do so many fail to realize that??

**English** · September-05-11, 07:47 PM

Originally Posted by Assata

I have a better understanding of how US Vietnam veterans feel.

I moved out of Detroit, MI 8 years ago into New England, where my daughter graduated, sold my home there and dropped my belongings off back in Detroit and began touring the 'world'. Spent a year touring Africa, Europe and Asia. Lived with families in both Africa and Asia. Recently returned from Asia where I spent 3 weeks in Vietnam [[both North & South). Lived with a Vietnamese family in the mountains, a 5 hour drive from Hanoi. Visited the war museums, Ho Chi Minh Tunnels and paddled down the Mekong Delta ... tears flowed at all sites ... Coming back to the US and Detroit is shock. It takes time to readjust. I now understand what the Vietnam Vet's and recent Vet's must go through.

So many people in the developing countries admire the West and want to be here. They are groomed through the media, that getting to the West is a dream fulfilled. I began a documentary and interviewed Asians on various topics of what they knew of Americans or the Western way of life and our history. It was very interesting.

Yes, I too was shocked and set-back when I finally settled myself in Detroit for my second summer here. But I took out my shovel and created a beautiful wonder to anyone passing my space, and my neighbors even began to spruce up their lawns as well. I now eat meals from my backyard garden and offer the surplus to kitchens feeding the public. One of my neighbors was surprised that corn would grow in the city, she just made the best creamed corn ever!

Can't remember where I found this quote but now traveling, I now have a better understanding of it's message: Travel is the cure to ignorance.

Beautiful! Thanks for this post. That creamed corn sounds good... now I'm hungry!

**corktownyuppie** · September-05-11, 07:52 PM

Originally Posted by Assata

Can't remember where I found this quote but now traveling, I now have a better understanding of it's message: Travel is the cure to ignorance.

Beautiful and concise. And I think it works in both directions...I think some hard-line Detroiters could do well to visit other cities to see how other peoples have successfully navigated the same struggles we're fighting. There's a closed-mindedness that sometimes seems to be pervasive here, and having grown up around it, I just assumed it was normal. It wasn't til I left that I realized how toxic it it really is.

**English** · September-05-11, 08:19 PM

Originally Posted by corktownyuppie

Beautiful and concise. And I think it works in both directions...I think some hard-line Detroiters could do well to visit other cities to see how other peoples have successfully navigated the same struggles we're fighting. There's a closed-mindedness that sometimes seems to be pervasive here, and having grown up around it, I just assumed it was normal. It wasn't til I left that I realized how toxic it it really is.

It's on all sides and everywhere. That's what so refreshing about some of the young people coming into the city with their quixotic dreams. They have a "can do" spirit in a town when all too often we've said to ourselves and the world "we can't" and "that's just the way it is here."

**skyl4rk** · September-06-11, 08:01 AM

One of the most shocking things for suburbanites is homeless people. In suburbia, people are rarely seen outside, except for certain gathering areas which are reached by car [[sports fields, malls, parks).

Most major cities have large numbers of homeless people, so it is not uncommon that Detroit would also have the homeless. But the suburbians are not used to people who just sit around near the street doing nothing.

Then there is the background fear of crime and having to defend yourself. Add that to homeless people hanging around and the suburbians think they will have to fight for their lives just walking down the block.

**tetsua** · September-06-11, 10:08 AM

Originally Posted by Assata

Travel is the cure to ignorance.

Nothing is more true than this statement.

**bailey** · September-06-11, 10:47 AM

I wonder if any of Channel 7's management was on that bus. Again with another installment of its detroit 20/20 bs without actually talking about the fact their entire operation is in the burbs.

**Gistok** · September-06-11, 11:35 AM

Originally Posted by Assata

Can't remember where I found this quote but now traveling, I now have a better understanding of it's message: Travel is the cure to ignorance.

Ah.... that would be a Samuel Clemens [[Mark Twain) quote... which reads "travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness."

... and most likely heard on PBS on either "Rick Steve's Europe" or "Travels with Rudy Maxa".

**Danny** · September-06-11, 02:25 PM

There's white folks taking the DDOT and SMART busses all around Detroit and Suburbs. Why Channel 7 want to a sloppy report on white folks taking public transit!

**Detroitnerd** · September-06-11, 03:46 PM

Originally Posted by tetsua

Nothing is more true than this statement.

Not true. You can be well-traveled and ignorant. Look at politicians.

**corktownyuppie** · September-06-11, 07:32 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

Not true. You can be well-traveled and ignorant. Look at politicians.

Could be. I think politicians are less ignorant than they present themselves. I think they are slaves to the ignorance of their constituents.

**corktownyuppie** · September-06-11, 07:34 PM

Another perception to overcome is that those who are ignorant seem to have the idea that the downtown of Detroit is even more dangerous than the neighborhoods. And while that might be true with most cities in the US, it's actually quite the opposite here. Well of course, if downtown is *more* dangerous than the neighborhoods...and you turn on the tv and see what happens in the neighborhoods...it's no surprise that many think that downtown must be a total warzone.