Clawson Sucks

[stinkytofu]

Not really sure how my original complaint about lack of signs in a city turned into this racial issue, but it certainly has propelled the discussion...

[Gannon]

...or it could simply be a tax on those who refuse to climb the learning curve...heh...

[English]

Hey. I am conceding the point. Look, I said it's our fault, quite nicely. End of discussion, nothing to see here, etc. Enjoy the perfect day outside.

[Gistok]

We have that same law in St. Clair Shores and as someone else posted they are lax until it needs to be enforced and you can get a permit to park on the street.
At first I thought this was a very stupid law then a few doors down we got the the party house from hell on my street the party's went on all night during the week stoners coming and going waking everyone up in the middle of the work nights cars parked all over the street. The Neighbors complained and the cops at 2am sharp would start ticketing the all the cars parked on the street it worked wonders just before 2 the party and street cleared out so now I am a firm believer in the law. They also enforce it when cars thefts or crime go up in an area people are less likely to have there car stolen in the backyard or in the garage and if crime goes up it is easier to see a car that doesnt belong in the area in the middle of the night

Good points ddaydetroit.... and the other ordinance that St. Clair Shores has is an ENFORCED sound ordinance. Drive around at night [[or day) with your audio bass on in full force.... and SCS police will ticket you! A SCS officer says that they write about 100 tickets a month... and the streets are mostly quiet at night.

The Detroit city council added an audio ordinance a few years back.... but enforcement seems virtually non-existent.

[Scottathew]

The race part was my fault. I indicated that I felt he might be able to talk his way out of the ticket at the cop shop, if he wasn't black.

The original poster never suggested his ticket had to do with race, but Kevgoblue stated that he was disappointed over my assertion that racism still exists [[but is fading) from Clawson.



[[Edit: Corrected that Kevgoblue was disappointed with my assertion)

[Novine]

Yet all these suburbs like Novi and others that don't have these pointless ordinances manage to avoid turning into the ghetto even though people are allowed to park on a public street.

"The street looks better without cars in it. Car lined streets are like driving with your arm out the window."

I'm sure that everyone who drives through between 2 am and 6 am appreciates the view of the car-free streets.

[majohnson]

English,

I believe racism exists and exerts a substantial force in some situations.
However, I don't thinks Clawson is a racist city and I don't think banning late night street parking is a racially motivated ordinance.

I think Clawson uses the ordinance to keep up the aesthetic and keep down car accidents on narrow streets.
I also think several municipalities use similar ordinances to keep the party/bar scene out of neighborhoods and inside the party venues. Thereby you prevent late night traffic of downtown customers using the neighborhoods as free parking.
Rochestor has banned overnight parking in some of their downtown parking lots and the neighborhoods close to downtown Rochestor ban overnight parking.

Here is an example,
I live in Royal Oak.
At 1:45 to 2:15 on Friday and Saturday night I listen to loud talking [[not screaming, but loud talking travels in the quiet morning air) neighbors return from the club scene. I only have to deal with the people who live in the neighborhood because I don't leave near dtown RO. My point is, imagine the disturbance if had to deal with twice as many people making noise while they return to my neighborhood to retrieve their cars.

Please recall that Clawson has been trying to create a regional draw downtown. Black Lotus brewpub is frequently full to capacity on weeknights. The ban on street parking may counter anti-development pushback from citizens living near downtown Clawson.

Also, a late night ban on street parking effectively bans large late night house parties. Large parties frequently produce a lot of noise, which would be an issue during the hours of the street parking ban because many people are trying to sleep.

Now, on the otherhand, selective enforcement and selective waiving of the street parking rule would be a problem.

By the way, I hate street parking.
Kids blindly following basketballs etc. are less likely to be hit by cars if there are no parked cars on the street.
I also think car lined streets block the beauty of the homes and landscaping.

Hey Gannon, your inbox is full. I have been trying to contact you.

[Scottathew]

"The street looks better without cars in it. Car lined streets are like driving with your arm out the window."

I'm sure that everyone who drives through between 2 am and 6 am appreciates the view of the car-free streets.

You fail to acknowledge that the ordinance results in less cars on the street even during the day. I have several neighbors that park their cars on the street for days without moving them.

These are the same neighbors that get upset when people back into their cars and dent them.

In addition to safer, nice looking streets, it also create less issues for police to deal with [[accidents with parked cars).

Even though I'm allowed to park my car on the street in Warren I NEVER do so, because the people that live around me SUCK at backing their cars out of their driveways.

It did make for fun times when I lived in Clawson and my family had four cars. Every night we would re-order our cars in the order that people would be leaving in the morning.

[stinkytofu]

The race part was my fault. I indicated that I felt he might be able to talk his way out of the ticket at the cop shop, if he wasn't black.

The original poster never suggested his ticket had to do with race, but he stated that he was disappointed over my assertion that racism still exists [[but is fading) from Clawson.

When the heck did I state that?

[Scottathew]

Now, on the otherhand, selective enforcement and selective waiving of the street parking rule would be a problem.

Not that you were asserting it, but I can assure you that the parking ordinance in Clawson is NOT selectively enforced.

[iheartthed]

Fine, fine, majohnson & Goose. Nothing that is ever done is motivated by race in SE Michigan. It's just crazy black people making everything up. We have apparently been making things up for decades.

Game's up. You got us. Let us all proceed with our perfectly harmonious, colorblind region and world.

I hereby promise to stop my vicious hate against Clawson, and hope others will take the same stand.

Apparently neither of them could read where the former Clawson resident explicitly stated "hint may not work if you're black".

[Scottathew]

When the heck did I state that?

You didn't, I was mistaken. I will correct my statement. It was actually Kevgoblue:

Wow.

So what is it again that makes Clawson such a nice place that you are looking forward to moving back? The fact that city officials choose to let "those people" who visit understand that they are not equally welcome?
And to think people wonder why we have such poor race relations and this region is so racially segregated.

[Corn.Bot]

I did not realize a car, or how or where it is parked, could exude racial vibes discernible to public safety professionals or anyone else, for that matter. OK, whatever.

My son lived in a town where you parked on the north side on M-W-F and the south side on T-T-S. The switch occurred each midnight. Son worked restaurant hours and sometimes could not move his vehicle from one side of the street to the other due to either being away from his house or being asleep in his bed at midnight. His town surely did not care about his work hours: this was a guaranteed revenue stream and they made sure to ticket his car [[and all his neighbors' cars) every single time it/they did not get moved before 12:15 a.m. or so.

Son thought having to continually pay parking tickets for such a dumb reason was ludicrous and began to ignore them. It was no big deal in his opinion - until he tried to renew his driver's license and learned it had been suspended due to $2,000 of outstanding parking fines.

Some laws are just stupid. Sometimes one's kids are, too.

[Scottathew]

Apparently neither of them could read where the former Clawson resident explicitly stated "hint may not work if you're black".

Yes, that was me that said that. The only person that has hinted at racism is a WHITE FORMER Clawson resident, me.

And I indicated that I felt racism is Clawson is fading away as the older generation dies off or moves. I feel that young people in Clawson are much more likely to judge people for who they are.

No one has suggested that the ordinance is racist.


For heaven's sake I will be more careful from now on, LOL.

[Gistok]

I did not realize a car, or how or where it is parked, could exude racial vibes discernible to public safety professionals or anyone else, for that matter. OK, whatever.

My son lived in a town where you parked on the north side on M-W-F and the south side on T-T-S. The switch occurred each midnight. Son worked restaurant hours and sometimes could not move his vehicle from one side of the street to the other due to either being away from his house or being asleep in his bed at midnight. His town surely did not care about his work hours: this was a guaranteed revenue stream and they made sure to ticket his car [[and all his neighbors' cars) every single time it/they did not get moved before 12:15 a.m. or so.

Son thought having to continually pay parking tickets for such a dumb reason was ludicrous and began to ignore them. It was no big deal in his opinion - until he tried to renew his driver's license and learned it had been suspended due to $2,000 of outstanding parking fines.

Some laws are just stupid. Sometimes one's kids are, too.

Wow... that does suck....

In Ann Arbor they have an ordinance that when there are heavy snow days, you can park at any metered street spot without paying the meter. Problem is... they don't tell you when the grace period is up... $$$

[Bong-Man]

I have two outstanding parking tickets from St. Clair Shores for the same offense....from 1987 ! Haven't paid them, won't pay them, and 24 years later I think the law is just as ignorant. Warrants are outstanding, but parking tickets are only registered within the city they occurred. Needless to say, I do go 38 mph down Harper when heading to my weekly visit to Salvaggio's. I'm a salty cracker too. Police tend to be equal opportunity ticket writers when it comes to revenue. Not sure of their opinion of stinky tofu though.

[iheartthed]

Yes, that was me that said that. The only person that has hinted at racism is a WHITE FORMER Clawson resident, me.

And I indicated that I felt racism is Clawson is fading away as the older generation dies off or moves. I feel that young people in Clawson are much less likely to judge people for who they are.

No one has suggested that the ordinance is racist.


For heaven's sake I will be more careful from now on, LOL.

Of course the ordinance itself is not racist. But it's certainly not beyond any stretch of the imagination to see the ordinance being selectively enforced in a racist manner. Clawson isn't a place that I spend much time, so I don't know one way or the other. Yet all of this incredulous from others that race might somehow factor into how some suburban communities enforce these ordinances is either naive or very disingenuous.

[majohnson]

Over the past two years I have heard several people talk down about Clawson.
It is a nice clean place, period.

I can't tell you about Clawson's race relations from 20 years ago. I can say that I generally feel welcome there.

My street parked car was hit twice within the past four years.
The first time at my parents, there was no room in the driveway.
The second time at my apartment, I was in the house for 5 minutes.

My father once almost hit a kid who darted out from between two cars chasing a basketball.
That always stuck with me. I also recall the multiple times I noticed kids playing in the yard, I slowed, and they came out from behind parked cars chasing balls.
It is scary.

[Goose]

Of course the ordinance itself is not racist. But it's certainly not beyond any stretch of the imagination to see the ordinance being selectively enforced in a racist manner.

really? cause the police force knows which are black owned cars and which are white owned cars? please tell me the difference...... is the car with the 24 inch spinners a white owned car? is the mini-van with the cartoon stickers of the family in the back window a black owned car? do they look in the window and see popeyes chicken bag and base their decision on that?

why does anyone care what local municipalities have as night time parking laws... why as an outside resident do you need to park in front of my house overnight? i don't want your car in front of my house, go park it in your yard...... if you were visiting friends overnight then as a guest you probably should have been informed.....

[RickBeall]

Hamtramck does not have this ordinance. If it did, we would all have to park our cars in our living rooms.

[Scottathew]

My father once almost hit a kid who darted out from between two cars chasing a basketball.
That always stuck with me. I also recall the multiple times I noticed kids playing in the yard, I slowed, and they came out from behind parked cars chasing balls.
It is scary.

In Clawson right in front of my house my friend was struck by a car. It was his fault as he darted out into the street, but cars masked the view of his bike. The ordinance was enough in this case, as the cars were parked there legally, but it does prevent quite a few cars from lingering forever in the street.

One time I thought I saw a child playing by the side of the road in Litchfield, Michigan and so I drove more down the center of the road [[which had no lines, it's just a small town) and I got pulled over under suspicion of drunk driving. I was cooperative and the officer never even made me get out of the car.

[iheartthed]

really? cause the police force knows which are black owned cars and which are white owned cars? please tell me the difference...... is the car with the 24 inch spinners a white owned car? is the mini-van with the cartoon stickers of the family in the back window a black owned car? do they look in the window and see popeyes chicken bag and base their decision on that?

why does anyone care what local municipalities have as night time parking laws... why as an outside resident do you need to park in front of my house overnight? i don't want your car in front of my house, go park it in your yard...... if you were visiting friends overnight then as a guest you probably should have been informed.....

Stop making an ass out of yourself and go read his comment. He said that you might get the citation excused if you go and explain your ignorance of that particular ordinance, unless you are black. Dunno what you call it, but I call that selective enforcement.

[jcole]

Stop making an ass out of yourself and go read his comment. He said that you might get the citation excused if you go and explain your ignorance of that particular ordinance, unless you are black. Dunno what you call it, but I call that selective enforcement.

I call it an off the cuff comment by someone who has no idea whether it's true or not. It doesn't prove anything one way or another because one anonymous poster claims it to be so. I'm a white female and I got a ticket parked in front of my daughter's house during a snow storm. So go figure.
Parked in front of her house, in Clawson, that is.

[iheartthed]

I call it an off the cuff comment by someone who has no idea whether it's true or not. It doesn't prove anything one way or another because one anonymous poster claims it to be so. I'm a white female and I got a ticket parked in front of my daughter's house during a snow storm. So go figure.
Parked in front of her house, in Clawson, that is.

Well, yeah. Of course we don't know for sure whether this is widespread practice, anecdotal experience, or completely fabricated. But in the context that 48091's account is indicative of the practices in Clawson, then yes it is selective enforcement. If Goose wants to dispute that Clawson does selectively enforce ordinances according to the offender's race, then s/he should probably say something along the lines of "I have lived in Clawson X amount of years and have never heard of such a thing".

That's a legitimate anecdotal counter argument to a claim based on anecdotal experience. But to dismiss the claim through sarcastic comments, especially when there have been so many documented accounts of racial discrimination in Detroit's suburbs, doesn't do much to convince the rest of us that 48091's comments [[for ref: "hint may not work if you're black") were that much off base.

[jcole]

Well, yeah. Of course we don't know for sure whether this is widespread practice, anecdotal experience, or completely fabricated. But in the context that 48091's account is indicative of the practices in Clawson, then yes it is selective enforcement. If Goose wants to dispute that Clawson does selectively enforce ordinances according to the offender's race, then s/he should probably say something along the lines of "I have lived in Clawson X amount of years and have never heard of such a thing".

That's a legitimate anecdotal counter argument to a claim based on anecdotal experience. But to dismiss the claim through sarcastic comments, especially when there have been so many documented accounts of racial discrimination in Detroit's suburbs, doesn't do much to convince the rest of us that 48091's comments [[for ref: "hint may not work if you're black") were that much off base.

Oh, and I did go to the Clawson Police Department and tell them that it wasn't posted and I got the same explanation of the signs being posted at major intersections, etc, and they did NOT relieve the ticket or give me a warning. I had to pay the ticket. I paid my 10 bucks [[this was about 7 yrs ago) and went on my way. So I guess I could have added [[Hint: this may not work if you are a white female in your 40's). Then would this post have started such a shit storm?