DPS EFM Roberts Imposess Sweeping 10% Wage Reduction ETC.

[lilpup]

I'm A LOT bitter but that doesn't justify paying YOU more out of others' pockets. You sure as hell weren't standing up when everyone else got slashed.

[DetroitTeacher]

You forget, I pay taxes just like everyone else. I pay part of my own salary...

Go to school and become a teacher. It's that simple. Then you won't have to be bitter.

I'm A LOT bitter but that doesn't justify paying YOU more out of others' pockets. You sure as hell weren't standing up when everyone else got slashed.

[lilpup]

You forget, I pay taxes just like everyone else. I pay part of my own salary...

Go to school and become a teacher. It's that simple. Then you won't have to be bitter.

No, it's NOT that simple as I stated in my VERY FIRST POST ON THIS THREAD which was IGNORANTLY DISMISSED by someone who IS CLUELESS about the situation of others I HAPPEN TO KNOW PERSONALLY, one of whom is even partnered with a retired teacher who confirmed the basis of his REPEATED REJECTION by districts due to his ADVANCED EDUCATION to wit:

I've also been told that if I got a teaching cert to go with my science/tech degree [[which politicians are always saying we need more of) that I wouldn't get hired because my education demands higher pay by contract yet no district wants to pay more for a teacher with no teaching experience. I know two others who have also run into this issue.

[DetroitTeacher]

Well, you don't just up and tell them you have your advanced degree right away! You'd also have to go to a college of ed someplace and get classes done in education. You would student teach. Most districts hire from their student teacher base [[it's how I got hired). You seem to keep saying that any idiot can teach and we don't deserve much pay. Feel free to try it out. Stop getting so angry. I'm giving you a solution to your issue of me making so much money and your jealousy issues with it. If you want something someone else has, you can get it for yourself. YOU CAN DO IT!!

No, it's NOT that simple as I stated in my VERY FIRST POST ON THIS THREAD which was IGNORANTLY DISMISSED by someone who IS CLUELESS about the situation of others I HAPPEN TO KNOW PERSONALLY, one of whom is even partnered with a retired teacher who confirmed the basis of his REPEATED REJECTION by districts due to his ADVANCED EDUCATION to wit:

[lilpup]

Well, you don't just up and tell them you have your advanced degree right away!

i.e. lie on your application/resume??

[Zacha341]

Ah, yes and 'the race to the bottom' continues. Pragmatically speaking... I mean it's like if an auto parts manufacturer lays off all of its skilled and trained employees that were making say $22 an hour, then soon puts out a sign saying: "Hiring: Pay Rate $10/ 20 Hrs Per Week". And there's a resulting line around the building comprised of those who a. return for the lower wage as they have no other options AND b. others who've not been able to find any other employment show up is that the greatest thing?

Now I am NOT anti-business or anti-capitalism, but is the 'desperation' response and factor [[someone else 'will' take your now lower wage job if you wont!) a win-win? Will that new force be comprised of the best or the 'pressed'... What of the turnover in that setting?

Will the CEOs and highest tier executives et al be flying any less few jets, amassing any less revenues? Further, will the new wage employee be able to manage without government subsidies of housing, food and medical?

Back to someone in your pockets ala taxes and redistribution of wealth supposedly... etc. ETC.

Oh yeah, the middle class is going, GOING to to be GONE!

Who's denying reality? People will work for peanuts, across the board, these days. Only the highly skilled health professions are exempt, and they're next.

[DetroitTeacher]

Nope. Your transcripts would reflect your advanced degree, which they would want. I've known plenty of folks with advanced degrees [[especially in math and science fields) who were hired in. They just agreed to start at the bottom. Granted, you start at the bottom, like everyone else because DPS isn't paying out for advanced degrees anymore [[as part of this new deal this year)...but in a few years, you could be living the lavish lifestyle that I have grown accustomed to....oh wait, you'd be perpetually stuck at the bottom because of the new contract we have. Who's lining up to take a position in DPS? Not too many folks, I don't think. It's possible, though, to become a teacher if you really want it.

i.e. lie on your application/resume??

[DetroitTeacher]

Lilpup: I also can't believe that if you have an advanced degree in the science or math fields that you'd be too hard pressed to find a decent paying job/career. Why the bitterness?

[DetroitTeacher]

No, it's NOT that simple as I stated in my VERY FIRST POST ON THIS THREAD which was IGNORANTLY DISMISSED by someone who IS CLUELESS about the situation of others I HAPPEN TO KNOW PERSONALLY, one of whom is even partnered with a retired teacher who confirmed the basis of his REPEATED REJECTION by districts due to his ADVANCED EDUCATION to wit:

Are you saying that you wouldn't be paid what you are worth because of your advanced degree? HMMMMM, seems like you just argued my point for me.

[Zacha341]

There are many out there with MBA's etc. who've learned to play down their educational backgrounds when applying for work. You just put down on the resume the schools you attended and don't list advance degrees until asked during an interview. Then you may have a chance and not be dismissed out of hand via email for being over-qualified which is common these days. Not lying, just down playing.

i.e. lie on your application/resume??

[Neilr]

John Kuhn, the Superintendent of the Perrin [[Texas) School District, spoke at the Save Our Schools Rally that was held this past weekend in Washington, DC. He addressed the topic of educating children in generational poverty, the learning disabled, and English Language Learners in the public schools in his district.

"Politicians, if you want our children to grow lush, stop firing the gardners and start paying the water bill."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFgrt...ature=youtu.be

[eastsidechris]

Yes. $72k is a shitload of money, which you obviously don't realize.

Compared to most other professions where you need a college degree, and then have a Masters degree on top of that, I think "shitload" is a bit of an extreme description.

[Zacha341]

I'm still wondering why it is assumed that all K-12 DPS or other district teachers make $70+K? Why is that figure always the base line of the salary argument?

Compared to most other professions where you need a college degree, and then have a Masters degree on top of that, I think "shitload" is a bit of an extreme description.

[Det_ard]

I'm still wondering why it is assumed that all K-12 DPS or other district teachers make $70+K? Why is that figure always the base line of the salary argument?

In my local school district in '09 the average teacher salary was over $75,000. Family health coverage was another $19K+. Detroit's teachers don't get paid very well given their situation, relative to others. But I don't like using average salaries since there's so much variation in teacher performance. A teacher paid $75K may be overpaid or underpaid depending on their performance.

[Zacha341]

OK, those with masters and years in are making more granted, especially those with years on the job. I am certain the incoming teachers will not see $75K for sometime. I hear the new EFM set-up freezes all wage increases for added education. Thanks for the clarification...

In my local school district in '09 the average teacher salary was over $75,000. Family health coverage was another $19K+. Detroit's teachers don't get paid very well given their situation, relative to others. But I don't like using average salaries since there's so much variation in teacher performance. A teacher paid $75K may be overpaid or underpaid depending on their performance.

[lilpup]

Lilpup: I also can't believe that if you have an advanced degree in the science or math fields that you'd be too hard pressed to find a decent paying job/career. Why the bitterness?

It's a blatant fallacy, largely promoted by politicians and educators in those fields, that there's a demand in science and math fields. Granholm *finally* started getting a little bit honest after she left office and admitted that engineers aren't being allowed by business to repurpose after being laid off. Many [[most? I forget the percentage offhand) engineers are out of their field within three years due to lack of opportunity. The most honest university in the country was one in Louisiana that closed their engineering school a few years ago due to lack of demand.

[DetroitTeacher]

Maybe they didn't want to "lower" themselves and become teachers. Really, DPS is short on math and science teachers [[or at least they were last year). I know other suburban districts who were also lacking math and science teachers! If moving from another field INTO education, folks need to take the required ed classes AND take the state test in order to become a teacher. I am thinking that is what most people are afraid of, lowering themselves to the status of a teacher and taking a dramatic pay cut that they don't think is worthy of their skills. You don't know unless you try it for yourself...stop relying on what others are touting. There may not be a demand for engineers, but there sure as hell is a demand for teachers of math and science in the K12 schools! Shoot, those are the folks who rarely get layoff notices!

It's a blatant fallacy, largely promoted by politicians and educators in those fields, that there's a demand in science and math fields. Granholm *finally* started getting a little bit honest after she left office and admitted that engineers aren't being allowed by business to repurpose after being laid off. Many [[most? I forget the percentage offhand) engineers are out of their field within three years due to lack of opportunity. The most honest university in the country was one in Louisiana that closed their engineering school a few years ago due to lack of demand.

[DetroitTeacher]

Correct, there are no more pay increases for advanced degrees and no more increases for years of service.

I am going in to work today and VOLUNTEERING my time [[per the request of the principal) to get kids ready for the upcoming school year. We are holding orientation today [[and possibly all week). It wasn't as much of "gee are you free" type of request, either. It was a "we're holding orientation on Tuesday, you'll be here, right?" type of request. I had other plans that I had to switch around [[and it wasn't easy since I have to do all my appointment making over the summer so as not to take time off during the school year for necessary preventative health care and she called me yesterday to come in today). Normal business folks don't do stuff such as volunteer their time, endlessly. I would say I volunteer [[thoughout the year) at least 3 working weeks worth [[120-140 hours) of time for various events dealing with the kids. It's not as much volunteer as expected participation, either.

OK, those with masters and years in are making more granted, especially those with years on the job. I am certain the incoming teachers will not see $75K for sometime. I hear the new EFM set-up freezes all wage increases for added education. Thanks for the clarification...

[lilpup]

Listen, pal. I've read of cases of ChemEs driving cab in Minnesota and laid-off NASA engineers working printing t-shirts, so don't go projecting YOUR fucking entitlement attitude.

[DetroitTeacher]

Don't forget the continuing education that we must have to keep our certification. Many teachers have more than one Master's degree. Those who came late to the game [[had another profession before teaching) usually take a pay cut in order to become a teacher. I know plenty who did it because they wanted to work with kids [[not because they got laid off from their manufacturing job and couldn't find anything else).

Compared to most other professions where you need a college degree, and then have a Masters degree on top of that, I think "shitload" is a bit of an extreme description.

[DetroitTeacher]

You need therapy!

Sorry folks, I am done here. They are driving cabs and printing t-shirts because that's what they choose to do. Why not become a college professor or take those classes and become a teacher, since we get paid so damned much?? Maybe because they can't hack it with us peons, I don't know. I am entitled to nothing, I worked hard and got what I got because I wanted it. It's not a flappin glamorous job. I do it because I love it and I love the kids. I tend to see ChemEs and NASA engineers as people who probably don't like kids enough to lower themselves to do what I do. Shit, no one wants to lower themselves to do what I do. If you are bitter, get off your ass and do something about your situation. Don't blame YOUR situation on me. I'll be the one paying into the system so you can get some food stamps and unemployment because you choose to feel sorry for yourself. I tell my kids all the time, if you don't like your situation, only YOU can change it.

Listen, pal. I've read of cases of ChemEs driving cab in Minnesota and laid-off NASA engineers working printing t-shirts, so don't go projecting YOUR fucking entitlement attitude.

[lilpup]

You need therapy!

Sorry folks, I am done here. They are driving cabs and printing t-shirts because that's what they choose to do. Why not become a college professor or take those classes and become a teacher, since we get paid so damned much?? Maybe because they can't hack it with us peons, I don't know. I am entitled to nothing, I worked hard and got what I got because I wanted it. It's not a flappin glamorous job. I do it because I love it and I love the kids. I tend to see ChemEs and NASA engineers as people who probably don't like kids enough to lower themselves to do what I do. Shit, no one wants to lower themselves to do what I do. If you are bitter, get off your ass and do something about your situation. Don't blame YOUR situation on me. I'll be the one paying into the system so you can get some food stamps and unemployment because you choose to feel sorry for yourself. I tell my kids all the time, if you don't like your situation, only YOU can change it.

FYI I have NEVER taken unemployment [[never even been eligible!), food stamps, or other such benefits because I take work when it's available. I doubt your repetitiously laid-off schoolteacher ass is benefit free!

[Pam]

You need therapy!

Or he needs to quit believing the new propaganda that we should all hate teachers. Teachers have nothing to do with the current economic troubles of America. Direct your hate elsewhere.

[oldredfordette]

My favorite line in lilpup's first post is "cushy little kingdom the teachers unions have set up". Hilarious.

In the new class war, we hate workers but love love love CEO's. You haters understand that revenues are at an all time high in the top corporations, don't you?

[DetroitTeacher]

I am benefit free [[never have been on any type of government assisstance, even unemployment). I wroked my ass off to do what I do and can do it anywhere in the US [[and even had an offer from England). See, that is why you are bitter...I don't have to "take work when it's available" because everywhere a person goes, they will have teachers [[at least for now). I am highly marketable because I am HQ to teach kids with Autism, those with learning disabilities, gen ed, and I can work in admin with Curriculum and Instruction. I earned my job security through my education [[and worked damned hard to get where I am).

I taught my son the same things and, at 25, he owns his own home and has a secure job [[that he's been doing since he was 15)! THAT is something that you should be jealous about. He's a kid and seems to have his shit together more than you do.

FYI I have NEVER taken unemployment [[never even been eligible!), food stamps, or other such benefits because I take work when it's available. I doubt your repetitiously laid-off schoolteacher ass is benefit free!