Whole Foods no longer a rumor

[Novine]

"People do this at WF all over the country. Why wouldn't they do it in Detroit?"

Because people who live in the suburbs have plenty of grocery shopping options that they can utilize at their convenience. Plus, most people I know shop somewhere close to home. When you're buying ice cream, you don't do that when you have a 30 minute commute ahead of you.

[iheartthed]

"People do this at WF all over the country. Why wouldn't they do it in Detroit?"

Because people who live in the suburbs have plenty of grocery shopping options that they can utilize at their convenience. Plus, most people I know shop somewhere close to home. When you're buying ice cream, you don't do that when you have a 30 minute commute ahead of you.

For some it might make more sense to shop and then drive than it does to drive then shop. I have two grocery stores near my apartment, but when I have to do my shopping during the week I often stop somewhere closer to my job and then commute home.

[Danny]

Let's hope that Whole Foods in Detroit doesn't get robbed! Security has to be in place when opening an exotic supermarket in the ghetto.

[jsmyers]

More coverage:

Whole Foods considering short-term space on Woodward during construction

I don't think the skeptics understand what Whole Foods offers for its customers. My personal case in point:

I live 45 minutes from a WF while there are at least 3 supermarkets within a 10 minute drive of my house. Every time I go near the WF, I stop in to get fish for dinner. I usually shop around for some other things that I can only get at Whole Foods. Last time, I got Wahoo from the Carolina Coast, natural maraschino cherries, and some other things that I don't remember. [[I've been into Manhattans lately, and the HFCS-soak, artifically colored and flavored cherries are pretty nasty.) I usually spend about $50 there. The only seafood that I can consistently get at the stores close to me that I will buy is catfish. Sometimes I'll also get talapia, but everything else is previously frozen [[I'll buy it frozen and thaw it, but I don't want the limp stuff that has been sitting around).

WF also has a huge selection of pastured, grass-fed, and organic meat, eggs, and dairy. If I didn't get that stuff from local farms via an online market [[http://locallygrown.net/) I'd get that stuff too.

There are three whole foods in the suburbs [[Tory/Birmingham, West Bloomfield, and Rochester Hills) and two in AA, for most people working in downtown, new center, or midtown, it will be much easier to go to Whole Foods there before heading home than trying to get to one of the suburban locations.

There probably is a small population of people who shop only at Whole Foods, and their purchases will be moved from some other store. But Whole Foods also draws from a much broader market of people buying things there that they cannot find elsewhere. It is a draw in a way that other grocery stores are not.

Central Detroit is in some ways a great place for foodies like me. There are a lot of good restaurants and a great [[and improving) market. I went to Honey Bee once or twice, but when I was living on Alexandrine, I was usually a not quite satisfied customer at University Foods. Having a Whole Foods 6 blocks from my apartment would have been heaven. For some people, it is honestly enough to tip the balance between living in one place or another, and one big chunk of the potential population of city center residents is Whole Food's core market.

I'd wager that over time it will help business that would seem to be competitors, because a store like Whole Foods helps to bring that type of customer into the neighborhood.

[Detroitnerd]

We are going to use government money to create the ILLUSION of affluence. Instead of actually providing services to city residents with that money, we're going to use it to create the IMPRESSION that the neighborhood is more affluent than it is. The thinking goes that once it seems to be a neighborhood with high-toned shopping options, it will be the kind of neighborhood that CAN support a store like that.

Nothing [[more than usual) against Whole Foods, or the people who like to shop there. This is an ass-backward development strategy, if you can even call it that.

Ever hear of cargo cults?

[Bham1982]

People do this at WF all over the country. Why wouldn't they do it in Detroit?

Where exactly do they do this? I don't think it's very common to shop for groceries where you work.

Take the GM Tech Center. Tons of highly paid engineers. Far, far better workplace demographics than Midtown.

Why isn't there a Whole Foods near GM Tech? Why are there basically no upscale stores in North Warren?

[jsmyers]

Why isn't there a Whole Foods near GM Tech? Why are there basically no upscale stores in North Warren?

Just a WAG, but I wouldn't be surprised if Warren's zoning ordinance has something to do with it.

Also remember that the GM Tech center and the land around it were developed at a time when men worked and their spouses did the shopping near home.

[iheartthed]

Where exactly do they do this? I don't think it's very common to shop for groceries where you work.

Take the GM Tech Center. Tons of highly paid engineers. Far, far better workplace demographics than Midtown.

Why isn't there a Whole Foods near GM Tech? Why are there basically no upscale stores in North Warren?

False comparison. First, the GM Tech center doesn't employee nearly as many people as the DMC and WSU combined, let alone all of the other employers in the area. Second, Midtown is both a business district and residential district. It's more comparable to Columbus Circle or Union Square than to the GM Tech Center [[granted Midtown being a lot less affluent than both).

[agrahlma]

The Whole Food website already has Midtown as a dropdown selection on their list of Michigan stores. They will be hosting additional community dialog sessions in the upcoming weeks [[see below). Maybe some of you folks that have issues with WF, or have additional questions should attend. I plan on attending.

From the WF Website
Our next community dialog sessions are scheduled for August 16th, September 15th, October 6th and October 27th. If you are interested in joining this conversation and would like details on time and location, please contact our Detroit Community Liaison at amanda.musilli@wholefoods.com.

[j to the jeremy]

Where exactly do they do this? I don't think it's very common to shop for groceries where you work.

Take the GM Tech Center. Tons of highly paid engineers. Far, far better workplace demographics than Midtown.

Why isn't there a Whole Foods near GM Tech? Why are there basically no upscale stores in North Warren?

jsmyers is right, Bham.

People commute to WSU and the DMC from all over Michigan, including commutes of over an hour. Many of them take I-75 or -94 during rush hour. Shopping on Mack and burning an hour before getting on I-75 would be very convenient for many people.
And there is upscale housing in Midtown. But add in the employers downtown and and the DMC, and the residential areas near WSU, and you have a built in market already. I just fear for the Butcher Shoppe, I don't think it'll last...

[Bham1982]

False comparison. First, the GM Tech center doesn't employee nearly as many people as the DMC and WSU combined, let alone all of the other employers in the area.

Doesn't GM Tech employ 20,000 engineers? And aren't there thousands of additional highly employed suppliers in immediate proximity [[everything from the growing tank production facility to GM's advertising peons?). Sounds like much better demographics than Wayne's couple hundred professors and the higher ups in administrative.

Second, Midtown is both a business district and residential district. It's more comparable to Columbus Circle or Union Square than to the GM Tech Center [[granted Midtown being a lot less affluent than both).

I guess we'll agree to disagree. IMO Midtown Detroit doesn't remotely resemble Midtown Manhattan, neither in form or function. I mean, light years off.

Manhattan is probably the greatest concentration of residential wealth on the planet. Midtown Detroit isn't a major concentration of residential wealth even for Detroit city limits. That's NW Detroit.

[iheartthed]

Doesn't GM Tech employ 20,000 engineers? And aren't there thousands of additional highly employed suppliers in immediate proximity [[everything from the growing tank production facility to GM's advertising peons?). Sounds like much better demographics than Wayne's couple hundred professors and the higher ups in administrative.

Wiki says the Tech Center has 16,000 employees total. Wiki says the DMC has 12,000 employees total. WSU has to have a staff of several thousand as well...

I guess we'll agree to disagree. IMO Midtown Detroit doesn't remotely resemble Midtown Manhattan, neither in form or function. I mean, light years off.

You know good and well that I am not comparing Midtown Detroit with Midtown Manhattan.

[jsmyers]

Doesn't GM Tech employ 20,000 engineers?

I don't know, but this says 16,000 employees total: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General...chnical_Center

Sounds like much better demographics than Wayne's couple hundred professors and the higher ups in administrative.

There are 2,700 faculty [[not including staff at WSU) according to wikipedia. And what about doctors? surgeons? pharmacists? A pretty pretty affluent crowd up there at the DMC and the Vet Hospital.

I think you are right that a Whole Foods next to the GM Tech Center might be a good idea. It is entirely possible that it is illegal to build it now, and I hope you see how it was not congruent with the culture of the time when it was built.

While a lot of those engineers in Warren have money, there are market segment differences between auto engineers and college professors or health-care professionals. Me an my spouse are kinda on both sides of that fence. We are both engineers; she is a college prof, and I also currently work for a U.

Regardless, employment demographics in Midtown look remarkably similar to those of Ann Arbor.

Of course Midtown Detroit isn't like Midtown Manhattan, but it is more like Midtown Manhattan than Warren.

[jsmyers]

To further mine wikipedia:

HFH has 1,200 physicians for 805 beds [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Ford_Hospital) and DMC has 3,000 physicians for 2000 beds [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detroit_Medical_Center). Tack on a couple hundred more for the VA, and you've got at least 4,500 doctors working within a couple of miles of the store.

While engineering is a great career path, it is not as lucrative as being a doctor.

I just noticed that the wikipedia article for DMC may be for the whole system, which includes Sinai-Grace and DMC Surgery, which are not in Midtown

[surenowinlife]

Wonder if I can get my Blunt wraps,pizza slices and weave in's once they get up and open.Will they have a BBQ concession going on in the parking lot?

[HazenPingree]

Among new home buyers, a recent Free Press article cited Midtown as the location with the highest average annual income in the city, with something around $113,000. Downtown followed, with something near $111,000. I believe Indian Village was close behind.

Though it was when I grew up there, I don't think that Northwest Detroit is necessarily the area of higher wealth that it used to be.

Also, while some employees at the GM tech center might be customers at a WF, I would think that the academic and health profession crowds would be more the prime demographic for such a store.

[Zozo]

Where exactly do they do this? I don't think it's very common to shop for groceries where you work.

Here, for one.

http://wholefoodsmarket.com/stores/montrose/

[LafayetteFoods]

HI everyone Lafayette Food here, come on in and check us out. We did not get a dollar of spending money, but we sure made the opening. No need of all the talk about WF, just stop in at Lafayette Foods and take a look for yourself!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Any product we don’t have just let us know we will do our best to get it in. It will be a great shopping experience. Lafayette Foods 1565 E Lafayette Detroit MI 48207 across from the 1300

[rjk]

HI everyone Lafayette Food here, come on in and check us out. We did not get a dollar of spending money, but we sure made the opening. No need of all the talk about WF, just stop in at Lafayette Foods and take a look for yourself!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Any product we don’t have just let us know we will do our best to get it in. It will be a great shopping experience. Lafayette Foods 1565 E Lafayette Detroit MI 48207 across from the 1300

I wonder if there will be any backlash against WF? I don't live or work in the area, but if I did I would throw my money at one of the stores that was already in the area and not getting huge tax incentives.

[animatedmartian]

I wonder if there will be any backlash against WF? I don't live or work in the area, but if I did I would throw my money at one of the stores that was already in the area and not getting huge tax incentives.

Plus Lafayette is more car-friendly so it wouldn't be as much as a bother to find parking space and probably offers to a wider demographic of customers. I think this makes for very interesting competition.

[English]

I wonder if there will be any backlash against WF? I don't live or work in the area, but if I did I would throw my money at one of the stores that was already in the area and not getting huge tax incentives.

Yes, I am sure there will be. Just like some of us think Biggby is horrible and Starbucks is intolerable, I am sure that people will shop at Kim's or Lafayette's just to make a point. Those businesses will see an uptick in business.

I know that this seems crazy, but I'd be willing to bet that not only WF will thrive, good luck getting retail OR living rentals in the Midtown area by 2020.

[English]

I have to say that some folks don't seem to have a lot of awareness about what "eds and meds" employment looks like. Years ago, I worked for Henry Ford Hospital, and I was a temp at WSU long before my current job. Certain kinds of administrators and staff personnel work 9-5 and carry their lunch every day. When I was a teacher, I worked from 8-4. I was tied to my classroom for most of the day.

That is not my life today. I'd say that during the school year, especially when I'm teaching and working on several projects, I purchase between 75-100% of my food away from home. I will also tell you that for many faculty and senior administrators, that number can be 100% on many days.

Our weekday mornings usually begin with meetings. If the meeting is on campus, many of us grab a[[nother) latte, chai, or coffee from the campus restaurant strip, but just as often, the day begins by meeting someone at Avalon, [[lately) Astro or 14 East. We have service meetings, research group meetings, meetings with colleagues and collaborators, meetings with school personnel, and meetings with doctoral students [[which are a little different than UGs). Often, you don't want to meet in someone's office, but in a more neutral space...

Cha-ching.

Most faculty in my college eat lunch somewhere around campus or Midtown every single day. This culture is so pervasive in my college until the secretarial staff found me a little odd and intrusive when I came in to retrieve my [[bag) lunch. They'd be in there watching the soaps and Jerry Springer, and their conversations would stop abruptly. I realized quickly that I never saw any other professors around in the lounge. I asked senior faculty where they ate and the answer varies. One group goes to the student center food court every day. Another goes to Subway. Another group loves Byblos and Mr. Pita. And a few of us who are trying to get in extra exercise when the weather is good will walk to Cass Cafe, Goodwell's [[sandwiches), the RAW Cafe, or Avalon.

If we're working on a project and are talking about it, or if we want to have a working meeting with laptops, sometimes we'll get in the car and drive outside of the campus area. I've been to Russell Street more times than I can count. We'll also head downtown.

Then we hold office hours. Usually I grab a snack of fruit -- WSU's Farmer's Market, Kim's, or [[in the winter months) the Freshens on campus are nice and convenient.

Then you begin teaching anywhere between 4 and 6 pm, and teach until somewhere between 7-9 [[classes are around 3 hours long). I quickly learned that eating at 9-10 pm when I [[finally) arrived home in Ann Arbor, with relatives in Southfield, or even now east of Lafayette Park is not very good for my digestive system. Most of us teach 2-3 evenings a week, so unless you pack both a lunch and a dinner, people tend to "grab dinner." Usually it's something light, but that's even more business.

On the days that people don't teach but have to be on campus, we tend to do late coffee meetings, happy hour, or even dinner. For instance, I had a late coffee meeting at Avalon with a VIP yesterday at 4 pm. Tomorrow afternoon, I have another meeting, and I'm waiting to see which local coffee shop I'll be working at in the morning.

That is my life as a Midtown employee. I work around 50-60 hours per week, but like many professionals, my schedule is flexible and I value [[and patronize) collaborative spaces. Now multiply me by many hundreds, and then think about all the professors, researchers, artists, hipsters, grad students, doctors, nurses, and especially med students and residents who are working all kinds of odd hours. Think about all the artists who are hanging out here, there, and everywhere. Think about how effing difficult it is to park on W. Willis these days.

Not only will WF do well, unless something drastic happens, it will not drive any other viable store out of business. I don't like the subsidies much either, but hopefully by the end of the decade, they will not be needed.

[English]

Of course, if you're in the field, in the lab, or writing, you're not eating much of anything. I will grant you that.

[[And I forgot about departmental meetings, college-level meetings, meetings with the dean and/or provost, brown bag lectures, grant meetings, community org meetings, state org meetings... not complaining, but... lots of meetings. And there is always at least coffee, if not food. In Ann Arbor, people definitely patronize Whole Foods and every other grocery store/bakery/cafe/sandwich shop for meeting snacks. Common thread of conversation: "What are we having today?" "Jimmy John's." "Oo-kay.")

[noise]

I just think that the folks you hang around aren't representative of the general Metro Detroit demographic.

Again, I have never heard someone claim that they wanted to buy in Detroit, but it was just so much more expensive than the suburbs. Not once.

And I have never heard that someone bought a home because of a grocery store. Not even once.

And I have. That makes you wrong.

[Meddle]

The Whole Food website ............

amanda.musilli@wholefoods.com.

So, I take it you work for WF in some sort of PR capacity and are here to tell Detroiters how silly they are?