'Same Sex Marriage'? Is it natural?

**smogboy** · June-04-09, 01:24 AM

Originally Posted by rb336

No, just legalize same sex marriage but do not compel religious officials to perform the ceremonies. non-religious officials, however, should have to regardless of their beliefs because it is not a church matter

I never knew that the clergy of ANY religious sect were compelled to perform any ceremonies they weren't ordained or comfortable with. Quite honestly what two loving people do together of their own volition neither infringes upon my relationship at all nor should it affect anyone else's.

ccbatson · June-04-09, 07:15 PM

You misfocus....natural is the term out of place.

**rb336** · June-05-09, 08:06 AM

Originally Posted by ccbatson

Is marriage of any type "natural"? If not, the premise is moot.

If you understand that every human culture in recorded history has practiced some form of marriage [[with polygyny the most common), it may well be a natural part of our cultural evolution, and since humans are a biologically cultural animal it is, therefore, natural

detmich · June-05-09, 11:32 AM

Originally Posted by Sstashmoo

Quote: "Oops we didn't agree with sstash, so now he wants to make fun of us because he looks stupid.ooohohhhh "

No, I was just pointing out, if you mention religion in any fashion some vile A hole can't spew their caustic blather fast enough. They start cherry picking Bible verses in an almost comical manner, their ignorance of the matter is pathetic. They view Christians as weak and easy prey as most are. It proves nothing, but the person doing it is extremely insecure with themselves.

When a vile A-hole who is dumb enough to base their world view on a work of fiction interjects cherry picked verses from said work of fiction into a discussion, and claims these fictional accounts as the basis for their denial of another citizen's rights, then that person is mentally weak and very easy prey. If you do not want to discuss the bible, then don't bring it up. I write this assuming that you can understand my words, but that may be expecting too much. Maybe you should just pretend that an angel whispered them into your ears while you were asleep.

To paraphrase Sassmo, attacking someone because of your faith is a very ignorant and cowardly act. It proves nothing, but the person doing it is extremely insecure with themselves.

By the way, to all you supposed Bible scholars who claim that I was attacking Christianity. The Bible passages presented by RB, and my response to them, all come from the OLD TESTAMENT. The old Testament is the JEWISH Bible. How a discussion of the Old Testament became an attack on Christianity is beyond me, unless the answer is that you are a group of insecure, ignorant cretins. How about you read the NEW TESTAMENT and tell me what JESUS CHRIST, whom you purport to follow, has to say about homosexuals. If you like the Old Testament so much more, than stop claiming to be followers of Christ, and convert to Judaism, because you now appear to be poorly read and poorly educated imbeciles.

**WolverinesA2** · June-05-09, 11:54 AM

Originally Posted by ccbatson

Is marriage of any type "natural"? If not, the premise is moot.

Very few animal species engage in lifelong, monogamous relationships.

From an evolutionary standpoint, men are biologically-driven to procreate with as many women as possible. Marriage is actually quite unnatural.

**Sstashmoo** · June-05-09, 12:19 PM

Quote: "dumb enough to base their world view on a work of fiction"

Just your opinion. If you folks want to insult others for their beliefs that's fine, but don't cry when one of us hands it right back to you. When someone mentions homosexuality, do I or anyone else start making comments or jokes about it? No we don't. You know why? It's called respecting others and not condemning others for their life's choices, Liberal. Sorry if it's not "cool" enough for you, but too bad.

detmich · June-05-09, 01:18 PM

Originally Posted by Sstashmoo

Quote: "dumb enough to base their world view on a work of fiction"

Just your opinion. If you folks want to insult others for their beliefs that's fine, but don't cry when one of us hands it right back to you. When someone mentions homosexuality, do I or anyone else start making comments or jokes about it? No we don't. You know why? It's called respecting others and not condemning others for their life's choices, Liberal. Sorry if it's not "cool" enough for you, but too bad.

I didn't make fun of the Bible. I stated a fact. That made you upset.
Now, if you want to try to paint any of this as an insult so that it will bedeleted, then I say well played Assmo. However, it was you who began calling people, and I quote, "vile A holes". It seems that when the truth is put before you, you become angry.

To my other point, did you find anything that Jesus said about Homosexuality? Or did you find where Jesus says his is the New Covenant? Are you going to become Jewish? Will you stop lying about Christ's teachings?

We'll find out here, same Bat time, Same Bat channel.

**Sstashmoo** · June-05-09, 01:27 PM

Quote: "I didn't make fun of the Bible."

Calling it a work of fiction, you know well that was a bait to start an argument.

Quote: "I stated a fact."

Bullshit.

Quote: " That made you upset."

Nope, I just like putting hypocrites like yourself in their place. "I'll say what I want about you, Insult you, but leave me alone" types. It's fun.

Quote: "We'll find out here, same Bat time, Same Bat channel."

You should be careful calling people "dumb".

detmich · June-05-09, 02:00 PM

Originally Posted by Sstashmoo

Quote: "I didn't make fun of the Bible."

Calling it a work of fiction, you know well that was a bait to start an argument.

Quote: "I stated a fact."

Bullshit.

Quote: " That made you upset."

Nope, I just like putting hypocrites like yourself in their place. "I'll say what I want about you, Insult you, but leave me alone" types. It's fun.

Quote:

Sorry, poor Sassmo, if I upset you by repeating a Bible story. Poor, poor baby. Hypocrite? No, that would be more like someone who claims to be Christian, but doesn't follow the teachings of Christ. You know, someone like yourself. Maybe, just maybe, It would do you good to read the New Testament. Oh wait, sorry about that, maybe you could have someone read it to you?

Oh, and about the Old Testament, I wasn't baiting you. The vast majority of it is a work of fiction. Sorry to ruin your day.

"We'll find out here, same Bat time, Same Bat channel."
You should be careful calling people "dumb".

Are you insulting my beliefs? I believe in Batman, you infidel.

DetroitDad · June-05-09, 02:09 PM

Good posts on both sides!

Well, the unaddressed point I always see made, usually by the religious crusaders, is that it is a choice, and therefore cannot be compared to the rights afforded to non choice differences like race, or sex, or a disability. What is interesting, and a point I never see brought up, is that it is comparable to religion, and freedom of religion is a right protected by our constitution, yet religion is technically also a choice [[and arguably unnatural).

You have a group of people [[homosexuals) who believe in something so strongly that they are willing to face persecution and even death for it, now what other groups does that sound like to you, Catholics, Jews, Muslims? I see no real difference between gay sex and religion at all.

**Sstashmoo** · June-05-09, 03:41 PM

Quote: "Oh, and about the Old Testament, I wasn't baiting you. The vast majority of it is a work of fiction."

I know you are having a bit of hard time getting it through, when you type that you are insulting people. For a better understanding, go to an Arab state, stand on a corner and tell them their book of faith is a work of fiction. I dare ya.

detmich · June-05-09, 03:50 PM

Originally Posted by Sstashmoo

Quote: "Oh, and about the Old Testament, I wasn't baiting you. The vast majority of it is a work of fiction."

I know you are having a bit of hard time getting it through, when you type that you are insulting people. For a better understanding, go to an Arab state, stand on a corner and tell them their book of faith is a work of fiction. I dare ya.

The Koran? Totally fake.

**rb336** · June-05-09, 03:50 PM

Originally Posted by DetroitDad

Well, the unaddressed point I always see made, usually by the religious crusaders, is that it is a choice, and therefore cannot be compared to the rights afforded to non choice differences like race, or sex, or a disability.
You have a group of people [[homosexuals) who believe in something so strongly that they are willing to face persecution and even death for it, now what other groups does that sound like to you,gay sex and religion at all.

Homo- and hetero- are not choices. I never decided to be sexually attracted to women, I just am. I didn't choose to not be gay. The vast majority of evidence says that there are a number of biological causes for sexuality, from genetics to the release of hormones at certain times during pregnancy. Therefore, they are fighting simply for the right to be who they are, not who they choose to be.

DetroitDad · June-05-09, 04:07 PM

rb336, I agree, but until more studies are done, you can't prove that, even though it's more than likely true. Their argument also goes so far as to say that we should be going against the biological programming, so it requires multiple counterpoints to both scenarios. I know some of those arguing both sides aren't being rational, when that happens you have to catch that moment and shine light on the hypocrisy.

ccbatson · June-05-09, 04:12 PM

Here is a better solution...disconnect marriage from any entitlements for everyone. No, wait, dissolve all entitlements period. Then this falls completely into the private sector where it belongs.

**Sstashmoo** · June-05-09, 05:25 PM

Quote: "The Koran? Totally fake."

And you're basing this on what?

detmich · June-05-09, 06:07 PM

Originally Posted by Sstashmoo

Quote: "The Koran? Totally fake."

And you're basing this on what?

Have you read the Koran? Read it, then get back to me with that question if you still don't understand.

**Sstashmoo** · June-05-09, 06:12 PM

Quote: "Have you read the Koran?"

Just as I figured, nothing...

detmich · June-05-09, 07:01 PM

Originally Posted by Sstashmoo

Quote: "Have you read the Koran?"

Just as I figured, nothing...

Just as I figured, you didn't read it.

The Koran references the same mythological people that the bible does, e.g. Noah. I ti s fiction in the same way that "reference" books about Middle Earth, StarTrek, or Hogwarts are fictional.

Again, read it and then let me know what you think. Till then you are just another lost soul with their light covered by a basket. Did that reference make you horny?

Yeah this happened, just like the DPD is going to hire 1000 new officers. See ya at the rapture!

**Sstashmoo** · June-05-09, 08:07 PM

Since you're bestowing us with your infinite wisdom, what about the Torah? Is that fiction too?

Seriously, look at what is going on around us, read the new testament, it's all in there just like they said it would be. It even mentions people like you. You're mentioned in there as well.

**vetalalumni** · June-05-09, 11:05 PM

Back to the thread topic. The answer depends on our ability to look at our understanding, and analytically arrive at developed and fair conclusions. Well articulated, fearless leadership will eventually move this discussion beyond the current confines of social dysfunction.

ccbatson · June-06-09, 12:27 AM

Actually, yes, all scripture is fiction. Powerful symbolic fiction with many historic and modern lessons of great value, but still fiction.

detmich · June-06-09, 06:28 AM

Originally Posted by Sstashmoo

Since you're bestowing us with your infinite wisdom, what about the Torah? Is that fiction too?

Seriously, look at what is going on around us, read the new testament, it's all in there just like they said it would be. It even mentions people like you. You're mentioned in there as well.

"What a Maroon!"

Lorax · June-06-09, 07:21 PM

The title of this thread speaks volumes on the OP's pre-determined position on this subject.

What is "natural" or "unnatural" isn't finally the point of this issue.

What is, is that marriage is a CIVIL and SECULAR institution in America, and always has been.

Gays are denied by statute equal rights as other Americans in this arena, and they are only wanting a level playing field.

Since marriage is a legal, binding contract, it falls under the same legal definitions as any other binding contract. The implications for inheritance, medical decisions, etc, are deeply impacted by whether or not two people are married.

So any religious, moral, or other discussion is irrelevant, since these attachments to marriage are not binding in law. Period.