Detroiters visiting Marquette

[gazhekwe]

Concrete Example #3

Banking Discrimination Adds to Dip in Minority Wealth

April 05, 2011 06:33 AM

[[USA Today) — After making big financial gains in recent decades, African Americans and Hispanics are again losing ground, critics say. Rather than blaming the lingering effects of the recession, a growing number of reports point to financial discrimination as a major cause.

”Communities of color have received the worst treatment at a very high cost,” says Michael Calhoun, president of the Center for Responsible Lending [[CRL). “We estimate 20% of African-American and Hispanic homeowners will lose their homes in this housing crisis,” more than twice as high as white households.

Homeownership is the primary engine of wealth, but the housing slump only partly explains the growing gap affecting minority families, says John Taylor, CEO of National Community Reinvestment Coalition [[NCRC).

”It’s about a dual system of finance,” he says. “People of color do not have the same access that most American citizens enjoy.”

While most consumers are able to go to a full-service bank branch that offers an array of competitively priced products and services, minorities are disproportionately forced to go to payday lenders, pawnshops and high-cost mortgage lenders, Taylor says.

[noise]

And I am in awe of the lack of specifics on this subject, given the many alleged doumented abuses in the past few years. If you can't back up the allegations, don't bother to post. Otherwise it's like some urban legend.

Just because you keep asking me to prove it's hot outside doesn't mean I'm going to waste my time doing it.

[gazhekwe]

I could keep going. Google has hundreds if not thousands of concrete examples of discrimination cases and findings in all categories in the past two years alone.

[GUSHI]

Census Bureau Reports the Number of Black-Owned Businesses Increased at Triple the National Rate

From 2002 to 2007, the number of black-owned businesses increased by 60.5 percent to 1.9 million, more than triple the national rate of 18.0 percent, according to the U.S. Census Bureau's Survey of Business Owners. Over the same period, receipts generated by black-owned businesses increased 55.1 percent to $137.5 billion.
“Black-owned businesses continued to be one of the fastest growing segments of our economy, showing rapid growth in both the number of businesses and total sales during this time period,” said Census Bureau Deputy Director Thomas Mesenbourg.
These new data come from the Survey of Business Owners: Black-Owned Businesses: 2007. The survey provides detailed information every five years for black-owned businesses, including the number of firms, sales and receipts, number of paid employees and annual payroll.
Data are presented by geographic area [[nation, state, county, city and metro area), industry and size of business. Preliminary national and state data were released in July 2010.
In 2007, nearly four in 10 black-owned businesses operated in the health care and social assistance; and repair, maintenance, personal and laundry services sectors. The retail trade and health care and social assistance sectors accounted for 27.4 percent of black-owned business revenue.
Among states, New York had 204,032 black-owned businesses and accounted for 10.6 percent of the nation's black-owned businesses, followed by Georgia, with 183,874 black-owned businesses [[9.6 percent) and Florida, with 181,437 [[9.4 percent).
Among counties, Cook, Ill., had the most black-owned businesses, with 83,733, accounting for 4.4 percent of all the nation's black-owned businesses. Los Angeles followed with 59,680 [[3.1 percent) and Kings, N.Y., with 52,705 businesses [[2.7 percent).
Among cities, New York had the most black-owned businesses, with 154,929 [[8.1 percent of all the nation's black-owned businesses), followed by Chicago, with 58,631 [[3.1 percent), Houston, with 33,062 [[1.7 percent) and Detroit, with 32,490 [[1.7 percent).
Other highlights:

• Of the 1.9 million black-owned businesses in 2007, 106,824 had paid employees, an increase of 13.0 percent from 2002. These businesses employed 921,032 people, an increase of 22.2 percent; their payrolls totaled $23.9 billion, an increase of 36.3 percent. Receipts from black-owned employer businesses totaled $98.9 billion, an increase of 50.2 percent from 2002.
• In 2007, 1.8 million black-owned businesses had no paid employees, an increase of 64.5 percent from 2002. These nonemployer businesses' receipts totaled $38.6 billion, an increase of 69.0 percent.
• The number of black-owned businesses with receipts of $1 million or more increased by 35.4 percent to 14,507 between 2002 and 2007.

[noise]

Last time I checked this country came a long way. President Obama, a half African American got voted in, in a country that overwhelming white.

I would never encourage you to read the comments section in the Free Press in a story concerning President Obama.

[noise]

It does bother me, though, that so many blacks seem to think they are the only ones ever discriminated against. There is no corner on the market.

They keep outing themselves!

[noise]

I like the "magic eraser" philosophy that people like Vox are espousing, at least from a Utopian standpoint. It would be great if we could make one small change that would instantly wipe away thousands of years of oppression.

[Detroitnerd]

Why would you say that? Are you implying that we need to be reminded day after day that injustices happened? Are we THAT stupid? Well, maybe SOME of us, anyway. As for me, I'm fully aware of what happened, and what is happening now. Maybe you need to be reminded for some sadomachochistic reason.

Not stupid, Vox. Just ignorant. Anybody can be ignorant. That's explainable. Why somebody would CHOOSE to REMAIN ignorant, that's beyond me.

Well, if you aren't trying to perpetuate stereotypes by quoting 60 year old books, what is your point?

The point is that you don't seem to have an understanding of good, old-fashioned American racism. And since, in our discussion, you raised the specter of black-on-white racism [[discrimination, really) in Detroit [[which I have yet to see, really; I just see a bunch of corrupt demagogues), and called it racism, I wanted to compare it to REAL racism, which you don't seem to understand. So I thought it would be a good idea if you read up on real racism. You know, how mobs of hundreds of whites were beating and killing blacks in downtown Detroit in 1943. Or how easy it was as a black person to get your teeth knocked out for doing crazy shit like, you know, stepping on the shadow of a white woman, or looking a white man in the eyes. Now THAT is RACISM. Read up on it. You might learn a thing or two.

Is there an example of institutional racism in the current day that you would like to share with us? I haven't seen a current example of white vs black institutional racism laid out here today.

Yeah, we're trying to lay it out for you and the gang. Just take your time and read through.

Why NOT post here? Last time I looked, it was a message board, not a bully pulpit for your views.

Deflection from the point: The point is, why show up here, beg everybody to answer your questions, and when they're answered, offer no evidence that you considered anything thoughtfully and just bark back your point of view again and again? If you feel the way you do, and you do not want it to be challenged, why rope us into this game? Unless you're just trolling for your own puerile amusement...

I am all too painfully aware of the divide between Black and White points of view, and the need for better relations between both. However, my point that there are black racists as well as white ones is viewed as impossible by some. Also, my point that the City of Detroit, in some respects, has become the essence of racist behavior by elements of the city is ignored. So can you address any of this in a clear and consise manner without getting sarcastic?

I haven't been sarcastic at all. And I find it amusing that you are begging the question. You act as if these matters are settled and gospel truth [["there are black racists" and "the City of Detroit ... has become the essence of racist behavior") and then demand that we disprove them. How about this, dude: Why don't you try to prove them first? Hell, why don't you show a little interest in understanding racism in a historical context before you go tagging people you don't know and haven't met as racist? That would show some maturity, at least.

[Detroitnerd]

It does bother me, though, that so many blacks seem to think they are the only ones ever discriminated against. There is no corner on the market.

What black person ever said that blacks were the only people ever discriminated against? Can you please provide the quote and link to that?

[gazhekwe]

Concrete Example #4

Originally Published: May 05, 2011 10:02 AM

Modified: May 05, 2011 2:56 PM

Citizens Republic Bancorp to settle lending discrimination claim with $3.1 million program to help Detroit homeowners

By Tom Henderson

Flint-based Citizens Republic Bancorp Inc. has agreed to settle a U.S. Department of Justice claim of lending discrimination and will announce a $3.1 million loan and grant program for Detroit residents today at a 2 p.m. press conference.

The charges involved alleged redlining by Ann Arbor-based Republic Bancorp Inc., which Citizens bought in 2006.

Bank President and CEO Cathleen Nash and Mayor Dave Bing will announce terms of the settlement at the press conference. The bank will provide $1.5 million in loans to help Detroit homeowners pay for home repairs and will provide $1.6 million in matching grants for those repairs.

Nash told Crain's that although the program is formally set to run five years, she hopes to deploy the money much faster.

"The Department of Justice began looking at Republic in 2005. The claim was that Republic had been avoiding loans in the city of Detroit," said Nash. "We acquired the sins of others. We didn't discriminate. We told the Department of Justice that Citizens has always made loans in Detroit. But the only way to fight the charges is in open court, at the cost of millions of dollars.

"We decided six months ago to make lemonade out of lemons. There was nothing to be gained by a lengthy court battle, and Mayor Bing has been very helpful in getting this settled."

Nash said the program will be administered by Detroit Works, a citywide effort by Bing to focus on the city's most viable neighborhoods.

[Vox]

Concrete Example #3

Banking Discrimination Adds to Dip in Minority Wealth

April 05, 2011 06:33 AM

[[USA Today) — After making big financial gains in recent decades, African Americans and Hispanics are again losing ground, critics say. Rather than blaming the lingering effects of the recession, a growing number of reports point to financial discrimination as a major cause.

”Communities of color have received the worst treatment at a very high cost,” says Michael Calhoun, president of the Center for Responsible Lending [[CRL). “We estimate 20% of African-American and Hispanic homeowners will lose their homes in this housing crisis,” more than twice as high as white households.

Homeownership is the primary engine of wealth, but the housing slump only partly explains the growing gap affecting minority families, says John Taylor, CEO of National Community Reinvestment Coalition [[NCRC).

”It’s about a dual system of finance,” he says. “People of color do not have the same access that most American citizens enjoy.”

While most consumers are able to go to a full-service bank branch that offers an array of competitively priced products and services, minorities are disproportionately forced to go to payday lenders, pawnshops and high-cost mortgage lenders, Taylor says.

That is what this nation is about,” says Warner, 57, a single working mother who
is raising five adopted children while she pursued dual graduate degrees in
project management and information systems.
She had needed to refinance her mortgage when she took
time off from work in 2006 to go to Liberia for her mother’s funeral. Countrywide Financial offered her a subprime loan
that Warner later found out she couldn’t afford.

When Countrywide was close to filing for bankruptcy
protection, another lender took over her loan, and her payments continued to
spiral out of control until she got a foreclosure notice.

Getting pushed back

“She had faith in the process, but she was qualified for
a loan that she could not afford,” says Mani Fierro, a real estate and
bankruptcy attorney in Herndon who assisted Warner but does not represent her.
Many minorities have become victims of mortgage lenders who are interested only
in getting the biggest commission, he says

.

As if people other than white didnt get steered into this by Countrywide?

[Detroitnerd]

As if people other than white didnt get steered into this by Countrywide?

It's in the movie "Inside Job" -- yes, brokers and lenders specifically targeted minorites for sub prime adjustable rate mortgages.

[guito13]

Concrete Example #3

Banking Discrimination Adds to Dip in Minority Wealth

April 05, 2011 06:33 AM

[[USA Today) — After making big financial gains in recent decades, African Americans and Hispanics are again losing ground, critics say. Rather than blaming the lingering effects of the recession, a growing number of reports point to financial discrimination as a major cause.

”Communities of color have received the worst treatment at a very high cost,” says Michael Calhoun, president of the Center for Responsible Lending [[CRL). “We estimate 20% of African-American and Hispanic homeowners will lose their homes in this housing crisis,” more than twice as high as white households.

Homeownership is the primary engine of wealth, but the housing slump only partly explains the growing gap affecting minority families, says John Taylor, CEO of National Community Reinvestment Coalition [[NCRC).

”It’s about a dual system of finance,” he says. “People of color do not have the same access that most American citizens enjoy.”

While most consumers are able to go to a full-service bank branch that offers an array of competitively priced products and services, minorities are disproportionately forced to go to payday lenders, pawnshops and high-cost mortgage lenders, Taylor says.

I would like to know how certian people are FORCED to go to payday lenders, pawnshops, and high cost mortgage lenders. If you do not have the credit or sufficent resources to use a specific service then you cant use it. Hell, when i was a paperboy I could still join a credit union that would give me a savings account. That is not a funciton of race but a function of socioeconomic status.

I would also argue that the people losing their homes are losing them due to job loss or because they entered a backside-heavy loan. If it was the latter then is it racisim that they didnt do the research into the loan terms and do the financial planning to ensure that the funds would be available to pay the bills?

[GUSHI]

ALot of people are losing /lost everything. Job, house, car. Not a black, brown or white thing. But a American thing in 2011.

[guito13]

Concrete Example #4

Originally Published: May 05, 2011 10:02 AM

Modified: May 05, 2011 2:56 PM

Citizens Republic Bancorp to settle lending discrimination claim with $3.1 million program to help Detroit homeowners

By Tom Henderson

Flint-based Citizens Republic Bancorp Inc. has agreed to settle a U.S. Department of Justice claim of lending discrimination and will announce a $3.1 million loan and grant program for Detroit residents today at a 2 p.m. press conference.

The charges involved alleged redlining by Ann Arbor-based Republic Bancorp Inc., which Citizens bought in 2006.

Bank President and CEO Cathleen Nash and Mayor Dave Bing will announce terms of the settlement at the press conference. The bank will provide $1.5 million in loans to help Detroit homeowners pay for home repairs and will provide $1.6 million in matching grants for those repairs.

Nash told Crain's that although the program is formally set to run five years, she hopes to deploy the money much faster.

"The Department of Justice began looking at Republic in 2005. The claim was that Republic had been avoiding loans in the city of Detroit," said Nash. "We acquired the sins of others. We didn't discriminate. We told the Department of Justice that Citizens has always made loans in Detroit. But the only way to fight the charges is in open court, at the cost of millions of dollars.

"We decided six months ago to make lemonade out of lemons. There was nothing to be gained by a lengthy court battle, and Mayor Bing has been very helpful in getting this settled."

Nash said the program will be administered by Detroit Works, a citywide effort by Bing to focus on the city's most viable neighborhoods.

These examples are all displays of entities giving in to public pressure. There was not proof from what I read that anything other than business decisions to avoid areas with high default rates. If you were loaning your money out would you want to not account for the additional risk in an area where the default rate was signifiantly higher than other areas?

[lilpup]

What black person ever said that blacks were the only people ever discriminated against? Can you please provide the quote and link to that?

The continued trash back and forth on this thread shows a refusal by both sides to accept that discrimination goes in every direction.

[Vox]

Not stupid, Vox. Just ignorant. Anybody can be ignorant. That's explainable. Why somebody would CHOOSE to REMAIN ignorant, that's beyond me.

Perhaps you can explain that then. Why is that?

The point is that you don't seem to have an understanding of good, old-fashioned
American racism. And since, in our discussion, you raised the specter of
black-on-white racism [[discrimination, really) in Detroit [[which I have yet to
see, really; I just see a bunch of corrupt demagogues), and called it racism, I
wanted to compare it to REAL racism, which you don't seem to understand. So I
thought it would be a good idea if you read up on real racism. You know, how
mobs of hundreds of whites were beating and killing blacks in downtown Detroit
in 1943. Or how easy it was as a black person to get your teeth knocked out for
doing crazy shit like, you know, stepping on the shadow of a white woman, or
looking a white man in the eyes. Now THAT is RACISM. Read up on it. You might
learn a thing or two.

Once again, past practices. You want racism? Great. How about a gang of young black men beating a white guy and breaking his jaw just because? You know, good old fashioned racism. See how that works? Is this impossible, or is this just random? How can you explain that? Oh yeah, that's just prejudice, I forgot.

Deflection from the point: The point is, why show up here, beg everybody to
answer your questions, and when they're answered, offer no evidence that you
considered anything thoughtfully and just bark back your point of view again and
again? If you feel the way you do, and you do not want it to be challenged, why
rope us into this game? Unless you're just trolling for your own puerile
amusement...

I suppose that works both ways, actually.
Read your own posts sometime and figure out who's trolling who, most days.

I haven't been sarcastic at all. And I find it amusing that you are begging the question. You act as if these matters are settled and gospel truth [["there are black racists" and "the City of Detroit ... has become the essence of racist behavior") and then demand that we disprove them. How about this, dude: Why don't you try to prove them first? Hell, why don't you show a little interest in understanding racism in a historical context before you go tagging people you don't know and haven't met as racist? That would show some maturity, at least.

Who's tagging people? I never painted everyone with a broad brush, did I? I only said that portions of the institutions of the City act in a racist manner. Maybe I should change that to prejudicial manner? Would that satisfy you? I guess if you can quote books from 60 years ago, let's try this...Ask Coleman Young why he didn't pressure GM to add parking garages instead of wiping out all of Poletown? How about who decided to plop the incinerator where it was to wipe out the rest of Poletown? Cooincidence? How about Harmonie Park?

[Detroitnerd]

I would like to know how certian people are FORCED to go to payday lenders, pawnshops, and high cost mortgage lenders. If you do not have the credit or sufficent resources to use a specific service then you cant use it. Hell, when i was a paperboy I could still join a credit union that would give me a savings account. That is not a funciton of race but a function of socioeconomic status.

I would also argue that the people losing their homes are losing them due to job loss or because they entered a backside-heavy loan. If it was the latter then is it racisim that they didnt do the research into the loan terms and do the financial planning to ensure that the funds would be available to pay the bills?

The way those documents are written, you could be a college professor and still have a hard time figuring them out. Anyway, the allegations are true: Lenders targeted minorities for the worst of the loans, and got big bonuses for signatures.

[Detroitnerd]

The continued trash back and forth on this thread shows a refusal by both sides to accept that discrimination goes in every direction.

What trash? I've stayed classy, you have to admit.

Discrimination is only as damaging as it is wedded with power. I'm not gonna complain if I can't get a seat at the local all-black craps game, now, am I?

[noise]

The continued trash back and forth on this thread shows a refusal by both sides to accept that discrimination goes in every direction.

I don't think anyone claims discrimination doesn't go in every direction. I came the closest to that and have explained numerous times since that we're talking about very different kinds of discrimination.

Are people here saying most black Detroiters have simply squandered all of their opportunities, or something?

[Detroitnerd]

Perhaps you can explain that then. Why is that?

You know very well this is directed at you. If it isn't you have to actually make an accusation of what it is I am ignorant of and than marshal the facts to prove my ignorance. A tall order, I should think, for somebody who's as fond of one-liners and kiss-offs as you are.

Once again, past practices. You want racism? Great. How about a gang of young black men beating a white guy and breaking his jaw just because? You know, good old fashioned racism. See how that works? Is this impossible, or is this just random? How can you explain that? Oh yeah, that's just prejudice, I forgot.

Your zeal to equate serious, repeated instances of institutional and popular racism with a fistfight is not a compelling argument. Again, open up a book and read.

I suppose that works both ways, actually.
Read your own posts sometime and figure out who's trolling who, most days.

No, it doesn't work both ways. You haven't marshaled any facts. You haven't made any constructive suggestions. You have been taking rhetorical pot shots and closing your ears to the arguments. As for my inimical style, I am always willing to listen to facts and reason, neither of which you seem generous with.

Who's tagging people? I never painted everyone with a broad brush, did I? I only said that portions of the institutions of the City act in a racist manner. Maybe I should change that to prejudicial manner? Would that satisfy you? I guess if you can quote books from 60 years ago, let's try this...Ask Coleman Young why he didn't pressure GM to add parking garages instead of wiping out all of Poletown? How about who decided to plop the incinerator where it was to wipe out the rest of Poletown? Cooincidence? How about Harmonie Park?

These are your examples of black racism? Would any mayor trying to make nice with the business community pressure GM? Are you saying that the incinerator was an act of ethnic cleansing? Do you even realize that Poletown was a mix of white and black, about half and half, by 1980? Again, man, where are your facts? I mean, ones that are right? Where's your research? It's nowhere.

[Vox]

You know very well this is directed at you. If it isn't you have to actually make an accusation of what it is I am ignorant of and than marshal the facts to prove my ignorance. A tall order, I should think, for somebody who's as fond of one-liners and kiss-offs as you are.

I don't feel the need to prove your ignorance.

Your zeal to equate serious, repeated instances of institutional and popular racism with a fistfight is not a compelling argument. Again, open up a book and read.

Why not? You equated the beating of black men during the 1943 race riot to a institutional racism claim, what's the difference? Read what? History? Please. It's the same, no matter how many times you read it. It doesn't change. What changes is within the here and now. which you can't seem to get into for some reason.

No, it doesn't work both ways. You haven't marshaled any facts. You haven't made any constructive suggestions. You have been taking rhetorical pot shots and closing your ears to the arguments. As for my inimical style, I am always
willing to listen to facts and reason, neither of which you seem generous with.

I guess gaz has presented a whole lot more in the way of possible facts that you are capable of digging up. But they are just as subjective as well in terms of fault and blame. I can't see that applying for a second mortgage to visit family in Africa is a very prudent choice, but if you want to call it racism, OK.

These are your examples of black racism? Would any mayor trying to make nice with the business community pressure GM? Are you saying that the incinerator was an act of ethnic cleansing? Do you even realize that Poletown was a mix of white and black, about half and half, by 1980? Again, man, where are your facts? I mean, ones that are right? Where's your research? It's nowhere.

Gee, you would think that you were there... I was.

Do you realize that? No, of course not.

[bartock]

What black person ever said that blacks were the only people ever discriminated against? Can you please provide the quote and link to that?

You are right, Dnerd. Only certain white folks do that.

[bartock]

I like the "magic eraser" philosophy that people like Vox are espousing, at least from a Utopian standpoint. It would be great if we could make one small change that would instantly wipe away thousands of years of oppression.

Thousands of years of oppression? What the hell are you talking about? Seriously.

[guito13]

The way those documents are written, you could be a college professor and still have a hard time figuring them out. Anyway, the allegations are true: Lenders targeted minorities for the worst of the loans, and got big bonuses for signatures.

It takes a college professor to figure out that paying 3.5% percent for 5 years and then having to pay either a lump sum or 15% at that point is probably not a good idea?