Michigan's unmarried mothers, freep article

[Detroitnerd]

I've been lucky enough not to need aid, and I'm not making generalizations regarding anyone who has/does, but I KNOW people do this. I'm not claiming they're bright people, but I've heard it directly from their mouths, and then seen the action to back up the discussion. It happens.

Yeah, and I know a guy who knows a guy who had his kidney stolen.

Ever get yourself in a bad deal and try to point out a silver lining? I think that's probably more at play here than any grand scheme to get rich by having babies you don't want.

If you're really concerned about people leeching off the government, look no further than Wall Street. Sucking up trillions of dollars so they can go on and do whatever they want -- and they create a whole hell of a lot more damage than 10 milliion single check-cashing mothers ever could. And they HOARD the money they stole. At least single mothers spend it, stimulating the economy and benefiting us in some way.

No, I'm going to say that this whole discussion about single mothers is a bunch of scaremongering nonsense. I'm glad there's a safety net. I respect the single mothers I know. It's a hard job and they get very little help. They should get more.

How about this: Every mother, single or married, should get $1,000 a month regardless of their income. A hell of a lot better than giving trillions over to war and corruption.

[Wintersmommy]

"How about this: Every mother, single or married, should get $1,000 a month regardless of their income. A hell of a lot better than giving trillions over to war and corruption
"
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^sounds good to me

[Locke09]

I've been lucky enough not to need aid, and I'm not making generalizations regarding anyone who has/does, but I KNOW people do this. I'm not claiming they're bright people, but I've heard it directly from their mouths, and have then seen the action to back up the discussion. It happens.

I know lot's of people, from all walks of life. I have more than a casual acquaintance with a lot of impoverished people. I honestly have never heard any single mother even hint that she wants to have more and more so she can get more money. Children require more money than a lot of people even make on their jobs these days. They are not moneymakers and no one with an ounce of sense would think they are.

I run across a lot of irresponsibility about protection [[male and female), wishful thinking about the love and companionship that is going to come with having the next child and lack of morality. But so far, no moneymaking schemes. On the other hand, I know a few young ladies who did wise up after the first one.

[Meddle]

Why is this about Michigan or Detroit or race?

Single mothers are in all states [[even countries), races and income brackets. Some by choice, some not. The entire 'family' picture has changed over the last few decades; more single mothers, more unmarried couples.

[401don]

Seems a lot of these mommies didn't study cost/benefit analysis in their college accounting courses.

[fryar]

It's not about race, unless historical legacies cause some correlation between class and race.

I do think it's a troubling statistic because I take it as an indicator that Michigan is *not* populated by college-educated knowledge workers everywhere you look. This is not an upper class issue.

Apologies to Wintersmommy; I'm painting in very broad strokes here. They clearly don't define each individual case, and I'm usually pretty cautious to try to phrase things in a way that clarifies that.

But as a trend, erm...people are waiting longer to have kids, if they have kids at all...except in Michigan? No "Odyssey Years" for Michiganders? Have young Michiganders nothing to hold out for?

[Pam]

How about this: Every mother, single or married, should get $1,000 a month regardless of their income. A hell of a lot better than giving trillions over to war and corruption.

As long as we are passing out money- how about free birth control for all?

[jcole]

As long as we are passing out money- how about free birth control for all?

I can go with that Pam; do you know how much insurance companies would save by just paying for birth control as opposed to pre natal care, post natal care, and child care for 18 years. I just don't get the rationale behind not covering birth control.

[Jimaz]

... If you're really concerned about people leeching off the government, look no further than Wall Street. Sucking up trillions of dollars so they can go on and do whatever they want -- and they create a whole hell of a lot more damage than 10 million single check-cashing mothers ever could. And they HOARD the money they stole. At least single mothers spend it, stimulating the economy and benefiting us in some way....

Exactly.

Worrying about the cost of helplessly impoverished mothers is like worrying about whether you turned the pilot light off after your house has already burned down.

Don't let the arsonists of the economy distract you again!

Billionaires Hiding Behind The Hedge

If your job paid $50,000 a year and you stayed at it for 47 years, your tally for a lifetime of work would be $2.4 million. Not bad – but hedge fund hustler John Paulson pulled down that much last year.

Most of us would consider an annual income of $2.4 million to be a windfall, but it didn't take Paulson a full 12 months of work to pocket his windfall – or one month, a week, or even a day. That's how much he made an hour. Yes, Paulson could've worked one single hour in 2010 and hauled off a paycheck equal to what a typical household gets for a lifetime of work.

Did he contribute an equivalent value to the economy to justify that compensation?

Hell, no. These guys deliberately burned the economy to ashes and then collected big bonuses for doing so.

In this matter I have sympathy for, but zero respect for the opinions of, victims of the Stockholm syndrome.

[maxx]

People have done studies on single mothers in the past. The reasons young girls have sex is to feel loved and respected. Having a boyfriend, even one who has nothing to offer, carries a certain respect with it in school. And girls think that having a baby ensures they will have someone who will love them unconditionally. It's all pretty sad. People justify having a bunch of children they can't afford by saying their parents did it, and it worked out alright for them. This is usually not true even when you use the lowest definition of providing for chidren, i.e., food on the table and a shirt on their back. Some people have to set their sights a bit higher for their children. And a lot of boys aren't taught any sort of responsibility when it comes to girls or babies or sex. There needs to be more young men acting as role models for young boys. And the definition of manhood needs to be more than sexual maturity.

[majohnson]

I have no problem with single mothers or married mothers.
There are many things, including wars, that our country can not afford.

Take me for example to help you understand my perspective.
I can't afford to raise a child right now. Now imagine I impregnate a woman and we break up, leaving the child fatherless.
Now imagine five similarly positioned men doing the same thing to five different women.
Now all five of us pay taxes that go toward public programs like medicaid to support the children and the mothers.
The federal system is unable to provide proper child support to the extent that everyone paying into the system is unable to afford a child on his own.
Fortunately, in the US there are many men richer than myself who can make up the difference.

But this article shows an alarming trend.
[[FYI, I am a 28 year old black man.)
80% of black michigan babies are born to single mothers. I believe many of those fathers could not afford children. You can't have 80% of a community being support by the few remainders.
Also being raised in poverty correlates to many other poor life outcomes, jail, high school graduation rates, etc.

Many men don't want to marry a single mother. Changing that mindset could help.
Condoms and birth control, so important.

A woman that wants a child should have one.
However, the 80% number is not created by women making the arguably legitimate decision that they want children even though they don't see marriage on the horizon.

[Detroitej72]

If you're really concerned about people leeching off the government, look no further than Wall Street. Sucking up trillions of dollars so they can go on and do whatever they want -- and they create a whole hell of a lot more damage than 10 milliion single check-cashing mothers ever could. And they HOARD the money they stole. At least single mothers spend it, stimulating the economy and benefiting us in some way.

No, I'm going to say that this whole discussion about single mothers is a bunch of scaremongering nonsense. I'm glad there's a safety net.

Nerd, this is one of your best posts ever!

I've been saying this for years, all the money single mothers receive goes right back into the economy. That is certainly a better return of our tax dollars than any war or Wall Street bailout has ever produced.

[bailey]

Originally Posted by Detroitnerd
If you're really concerned about people leeching off the government, look no further than Wall Street. Sucking up trillions of dollars so they can go on and do whatever they want -- and they create a whole hell of a lot more damage than 10 milliion single check-cashing mothers ever could. And they HOARD the money they stole. At least single mothers spend it, stimulating the economy and benefiting us in some way.

No, I'm going to say that this whole discussion about single mothers is a bunch of scaremongering nonsense. I'm glad there's a safety net.

Nerd, this is one of your best posts ever!

I've been saying this for years, all the money single mothers receive goes right back into the economy. That is certainly a better return of our tax dollars than any war or Wall Street bailout has ever produced.

But of course then it's not a "safety net", its a lifestyle choice... and if I'm going to pay someone to live, I'd go with the bankers. They breed less and spend WAY more.

[rjk]

Yeah, and I know a guy who knows a guy who had his kidney stolen.

Ever get yourself in a bad deal and try to point out a silver lining? I think that's probably more at play here than any grand scheme to get rich by having babies you don't want.

If you're really concerned about people leeching off the government, look no further than Wall Street. Sucking up trillions of dollars so they can go on and do whatever they want -- and they create a whole hell of a lot more damage than 10 milliion single check-cashing mothers ever could. And they HOARD the money they stole. At least single mothers spend it, stimulating the economy and benefiting us in some way.

No, I'm going to say that this whole discussion about single mothers is a bunch of scaremongering nonsense. I'm glad there's a safety net. I respect the single mothers I know. It's a hard job and they get very little help. They should get more.

How about this: Every mother, single or married, should get $1,000 a month regardless of their income. A hell of a lot better than giving trillions over to war and corruption.

Yep, they're also helping the economy by creating kids who are more likely to drop out of school and end up in prison as opposed to two-parent households. People will have to buy security doors and bars for their windows, purchase guns for safety, and buy security alarms. Also it's a boon for the prison industry.

The cost of single mothers goes way beyond the monthly check that they recieve from the goverment.

[jbd441]

I was always taught that when two people who loved each other and hopefully wanted to spend the rest of their lives together would have children to love and raise. But...times have changed. If any woman or couple want to have children regardless of whether they are married or not, they should do so when they can afford them.. when they are both willing to provide and raise that child...when a child won't become a burden in their eyes and suffer from neglect.
BTW I've known women who have kids for the sole purpose of collecting welfare because they didn't want to work and they didn't want to marry, who thought it would save their relationship and/or marriage, they wanted their force their boyfriends to marry them, they felt it would soon be too late for they physically to have kids but they were not in a relationship, to fit in a particular group and for companionship.
I just don't want my tax money to go to women and men who use a kid for leverage, or stick them in microwaves because they're pissed at the baby daddy or competely alienate themselves from their children's lives. But this will never happen and the cycle will just continue.

[guito13]

I would also like to add that the current laws surrounding out-of-wedlock births are negatively impacting these children.

The state profits by maximixing child support and therefore has incentives to remove one parent from the picture in order to maximize the support "award". If you look into the law, the state receives money based on how much support it collects. These funds can then be used for ANY Title-IVD program. Basically this makes child support collection a revenue stream for the state.

The support formula also is flawed in the fact that it does not take the cost of the paying parent to support their child[[ren) while in their household. This is basically a double hit on the person paying support.

Support is also taxed to the payer rather thanthe payee. This, of course, usually generates more taxes since the money would come off the top of the payers yearly income, which is taxed at the highest applicable tax bracket. If it went to person getting support they are usually in a lower tax bracket. IMO, the person who is spending the money should be taxed on it, but that just makes too much sense.

It sad, but I think a lot of dads out there hear the stories of the guys who try to be a dad to their child[[ren) only to be treated by a criminal by the courts. Of course the public falls for it because the phrase "best interest of the children" is used. Underneath it all though, its in the best interest of the states coffers, not the children and their parents.

[bartock]

Yep, they're also helping the economy by creating kids who are more likely to drop out of school and end up in prison as opposed to two-parent households. People will have to buy security doors and bars for their windows, purchase guns for safety, and buy security alarms. Also it's a boon for the prison industry.

The cost of single mothers goes way beyond the monthly check that they recieve from the goverment.

Exactly. The Wall Street rant, while certainly valid, is tangental to the issue raised in the first post.