Review of "Surrendered" in Michigan Citizen.7.3.11

[Downtown Lady]

Where to start?

1. The pending federal charges have nothing to do with the party, and nothing to do with the whistleblower trial and settlement. These things [[the party, trial and settlement) are probably not what started everything. What probably started everything is this: banks are required [[by the Patriot Act) to report certain suspicious banking activity to the FBI. A bank reporting Kwame's, Bernard's and Bobby Ferguson's banking activity most likely is what started all of this. In other words, they brought the scrutiny on themselves.

2. Why should anybody in DPD Internal Affairs need permission from the chief to investigate the mayor? The mayor is not outside the scope of the law. This kind of privileged thinking is what gets people in trouble.

3. "So [Mike Stefani] violates a court order and sends a fake subpoena to the text provider." Mike Stefani never sent anyone a fake subpoena.

4. "[Mike Stefani] then gives the messages showing Mayor [Kwame Kilpatrick] had cheated on his wife to the local newspaper." That's not what made the text messages newsworthy.

5. "The State Police, AG and every other agency in the state spent millions of dollars trying to find out whether this party happened or not." I guarantee that millions of dollars were not spent.

6. "[Gary Brown] was unappointed from his position cause he was looking into things that he wasn't assigned to, and things that was not illegal. He then retired as a deputy chief, receives his pension and all other retirement benefits. [Alvin Bowman] does the same, so does [Harold Nelthrope]."

This statement, to me, confirms that you are in the Kilpatrick inner circle -- it is the combination of two things that says that to me:

[[1) the positive spin put on these officers losing their jobs [[kept the title! received pension! received other benefits!) is straight out of the Kwame playbook, and

[[2) the use of the word "unappointed", which should be trademarked by Kwame as he is unwavering in his use of that word to describe the circumstances. That word is not even in the dictionary, but it's a main tenet of Kwame's PR campaign, that the officers were "unappointed".

[Woodward's Cousin]

[QUOTE=Downtown Lady;258394]Where to start?

1. The pending federal charges have nothing to do with the party, and nothing to do with the whistleblower trial and settlement. ....



The federal charges have nothing to do with the alleged party, perjury or the Brown/ Nelthope/Harris settlement and everything to do with alleged public corruption and tax law crimes.

Whether Mr. Kilkpatrick is aquitted or convicted of the pending federal charges will not affect my evaluation of the probability that a party at the Manoogian before the family took residence involved an altercation that led to a female attendee being transported to a hospital. As of today, such an incident has not been convincingly proven.

[313hero]

Downtown-
1. innocent until PROVEN guilty

2. Internal affairs police police, KK is not a police officer

3. The courts order was for all subpoena's be addressed to the court and must have the judges permission to send b4 the trial started. that was the court's order. Stefani didnt do that. instead he sent a subpeona without the judges knowledge and w/o a judges signature

4. How is texts showing the mayor cheated on his wife "not newsworthy"?

5. $4 million to be exact look it up

6. the city charter states any appointee can be unappointed w/o cause. Warren Evans is a perfect example of that. He was an appointee, the mayor didnt like some things he was doing so he unappointed him. But he couldnt fire the officer he was sleeping w/ cause a Mayor cant fire police, they just cant. It is true that Bowman was transferred he didnt like it so he retired/quit its documented. GB did retire he is on city councel making 70-80k, he won 3+ mill, and he is getting his pension 30-50+ k. Nelthrop quit. all of this is documented. you can get all of this info from the news archives.

[Hypestyles]

.. now that Borders is facing possible liquidation, in less than a week.. I wonder what chains will be carrying the book.

[313hero]

[QUOTE=Woodward's Cousin;258406]

Where to start?

Whether Mr. Kilkpatrick is aquitted or convicted of the pending federal charges will not affect my evaluation of the probability that a party at the Manoogian before the family took residence involved an altercation that led to a female attendee being transported to a hospital. As of today, such an incident has not been convincingly proven.

Why??? its been almost a decade and still no evidence, texts, witnesses, anything that says the party happened. so someone would have to prove to you that the party didnt happen instead of proving the party did happen. thats hillarious. The story of the "party" doesnt even make sence if you really study it and take your hatred for KK out. The AG, State Police, Kym Worthy, and the feds all investigated the party allegations and the best they all could come up with was it was an Urban Legend. Yatooma cant even establish the party even occured let alone the rest of the crap. he has interviewed everyone in the city just about and still have nothing. man you guys are tooooo funny. its a cool conspiracy theory. but I dont personally think KK had the smarts nor the effort to be able to make this party disappear into thin air. and if he had the gall to kill a stripper who never said anything to anyone about the party. She told noone in her family, non of her friends for over 6-8 months and they killed her anyway. i dont think so. You dont find it funny that she didnt tell none of her friends she danced at the party? she told no one she knew? and its 150 mill on the line and KK is in jail but people are still scared???lol. if KK was a killer GB, KW, and the rest of them would be gone

[Downtown Lady]

1. I never said anything about guilty. I said "pending federal charges".

2. The circumstances were investigated as they involved Kwame's EPU.

3. I don't think that's what happened. Can you document that?

4. You missed the whole point. What was newsworthy in the texts was not the cheating.

5. I did look it up. I didn't find anything. Can you document that?

6. You missed my point again. I'm not debating whether or not an appointee can be removed from office, I am saying that your use of the word "unappointed" [[which is not a real word and does not appear in the charter) is a giveaway that you are close to Kilpatrick, since that is his trademark word when he describes the circumstances.

"a Mayor can't fire police, they just can't" -- exactly. So you just say you "unappointed them" instead.

[313hero]

1. charges are just that

2. The AG and other agencies that investigated the EPU claims came up w/ nothing illegal

3. That is what happened it was the judges orders, look it up in the paper's archives

4. The cheating was newsworthy, just like Arnold S., John Edwards, Bill Clinton and the rest of them

5. Go to Wayne county clerks office and get the info. add it all up it comes to roughly 4 mill

6. the Charter Clearly states "any appointee can be unappointed without cause" read the city charter if you dont believe me.
a Mayor can't fire police, they just can't" -- exactly. So you just say you "unappointed them" instead.

A mayor cant fire an officer. GB wasnt an officer. he was an appointee of the mayor. The head of the IA unit is an appointed position and Jerry Oliver wanted GB in the position, so KK appointed GB to that position. after GB was unappointed he went back to being an officer. non of the officer who sued was actually terminated from the police Department. Look it up. the Library has a free online data base w/ all the papers archives, go there do your research then holla back. cause you will just have to see for yourself. Ive done it. you can too.

[Downtown Lady]

Hey Carlita, can you just link to the research you've done? Thanks.

[Downtown Lady]

In all seriousness, 313hero, I can't debate you anymore -- there's a basic lack of logic. Here's an example:

ME: The pending federal charges have nothing to do with the party, and nothing to do with the whistleblower trial and settlement.

YOU: innocent until PROVEN guilty

ME: I never said anything about guilty. I said "pending federal charges".

YOU: charges are just that

OK, what????? That whole exchange doesn't even make sense. This is exhausting. I think I'm done.

[Bigb23]

One of the more enjoyable give and takes I've seen in a long time. Can somebody carry the torch for Downtown Lady ? I can't - I just had a headache from reading the exchange.

[Downtown Lady]

haha! thanks Bigb

[Woodward's Cousin]

It's important to try to understand the world view of 313hero. She is not alone in holding these views. Understanding her helps to understand Detroit and why we are where we are.

I think 313hero's posts are also helpful in trying to understand the logic of Mr. Kilpatrick himself and how he views the predicament he is in and the unpleasant future waiting for him.

Back in the day of Watergate the bad guys pursued a "limited, modified hang out" strategy unti it all came tumbling down. It didn't work then, just as "OK. he's a perjurer and an adulterer, but the rest of it was just cooked up by his enemies" will not get over now.

Looking forward to reading the book.

[Bigb23]

It will be published [[stolen), online somewhere for free - my only regrets are to the ghost writer and publisher who are going to take a hit. But that is the gamble you take when your subject is still sitting in jail with pending Federal charges. Let's see what Whitey Bulger does with his time in the cell.

[Motor City Sam]

313Hero, I will not try to argue with you on the specifics of the case, or my disagreement with some of the aspects of the KK saga that you feel to be true, because I don't have the patience of Downtown Lady. You certainly seem to be a true believer and from having had my share of conversations with others who feel the way you do, I am sure I can't get you to see my side.

I do have to point out something, though. You keep saying "innocent until proven guilty" in reference to the charges against Kilpatrick, yet you have no problem characterizing the police officer involved in the Ayana Jones case as a murderer. There has been no trial in that case. Doesn't that police officer deserve the same rights as an American that you demand for Kwame?

It just seems a little inconsistent.

[Carey]

While 313 rests his fingers, I want to support his contention that the Manoogian Party -- as rumored -- never happened. The story of a wild party and a beatdown by Carlita is one powerful rumor, but if after almost nine years Norman Yatooma can find only two people who atteneded the party, and they both suffer from mental problems, I think it's fair to say he hasn't proven his case. I'm waiting to see what the federal judge feels about that.

On the other hand, 313: In his book, Kilpatrick deals with the rumor by saying the media ran wild with it, publicizing the allegations of a wild party as soon as the story began circulating in the city. But that's not what happened at all. The rumors spread quickly to every TV, radio and print newsroom, and reporters tried for weeks to chase down the story, but no one succeeded in uncovering any "facts."

Virtually nothing on the supposed party was aired or published until Mayor K, or Christine Beatty, fired Gary Brown, and Brown held his press conference and said he was fired because he was looking into rumors about a party that police officers might have been involved in. That's when all hell broke loose, and the first time the general public became aware of rumors of a Manoogian Party.

I don't hate your hero, so I won't say this is one of Kwame Kilpatrick's lies. But he certainly got this part of the saga very, very wrong.

[Bigb23]

Her :

While 313 rests his

That's my impression.

[lilpup]

A mayor cant fire an officer.

The Mayor can cause an officer to be fired because the Mayor appoints the Chief of Police.

And that's one of the major flaws in the current City Charter.

[313hero]

313Hero, I will not try to argue with you on the specifics of the case, or my disagreement with some of the aspects of the KK saga that you feel to be true, because I don't have the patience of Downtown Lady. You certainly seem to be a true believer and from having had my share of conversations with others who feel the way you do, I am sure I can't get you to see my side.

I do have to point out something, though. You keep saying "innocent until proven guilty" in reference to the charges against Kilpatrick, yet you have no problem characterizing the police officer involved in the Ayana Jones case as a murderer. There has been no trial in that case. Doesn't that police officer deserve the same rights as an American that you demand for Kwame?

It just seems a little inconsistent.

I reference the officer because He killed poor aiyana and the public has not received any answers. It was plenty of witnesses and a camera crew but a year later we have no idea what happened but if kk farts its all over the place.

[313hero]

313Hero, I will not try to argue with you on the specifics of the case, or my disagreement with some of the aspects of the KK saga that you feel to be true, because I don't have the patience of Downtown Lady. You certainly seem to be a true believer and from having had my share of conversations with others who feel the way you do, I am sure I can't get you to see my side.

I do have to point out something, though. You keep saying "innocent until proven guilty" in reference to the charges against Kilpatrick, yet you have no problem characterizing the police officer involved in the Ayana Jones case as a murderer. There has been no trial in that case. Doesn't that police officer deserve the same rights as an American that you demand for Kwame?

It just seems a little inconsistent.

I reference the officer because He killed poor aiyana and the public has not received any answers. It was plenty of witnesses and a camera crew but a year later we have no idea what happened but if kk farts its all over the place.

[SWMAP]

An interesting and somewhat alarming [[to me) interview with KK on the Michigan Citizen website. KK says that he has a "powerful ideas for Detroit" and that he will be available to the community to work on them:

MC: For many Black people, prison has often been a political experience, and some of the most alive parts of your book are when you talk about the number of Black men who are locked up. Has prison radicalized you? How?

KK: Absolutely, not radicalized, but given me a more full education — spiritual and mental. It has drawn something inside me out. Something I had to suppress because I was a politician. As mayor, I had to be a manager, but we are called on to be producers … There are no titles here [in prison] so you have to have a lot of respect for your fellow man. Not respecting people will get you hurt. You have a wide spread of ages and have an opportunity to see what our country has done, what the crisis of massive incarceration has done to America. It has also given me some powerful ideas for the city. [Things] that I can do outside of job as mayor. I am free. I have never been this free in my life. This experience has sparked a new light in me and I am ready to help serve somebody. I think until we start to understand our men are here … I am locked in this unit with 100 fathers and fathers are serving time with their sons. Grandfathers are meeting grandsons. Until we start doing something about this cycle, we won’t do anything for our community … we need to start engaging with young people now.


I have never stolen a damn dime from anybody in my life. I never embezzled or misappropriated public funds. So, I want to talk to Detroiters about the truth … I want to talk to Detroit about who I am and what I did. I served this community with everything I had … if you want to meet me, it’s going to be just like the campaign in 2005. I will come to your house. The next generation of Detroiters cannot be railroaded in this system that I have seen first hand.'

Doesn't it seem like his plan might be to be the "other mayor" - hanging around advising the community on what he thinks the Mayor and the council should be doing? Like an unloyal opposition?

[Woodward's Cousin]

Thanks to SWMAP for calling our attention to the Michigan Citizen interview of Mr. Kilpatrick:

http://michigancitizen.com/kilpatric...w-p10038-1.htm

Looks like the strategy for the pending federal charges will be to portray Mr. Kilpatrick as the righteous vanguard of a rebellion against a racist system of justice and hope that one or more members of his jury buys the concept. Makes sense from a legal defense perspective.

Intersting to note the focus on a claim of no embezzlement, glossing over the charges of bid rigging on contracts which effectively deprived Detroiters of the ability to use public funds for urgently needed public services, and the use of the Kilpatrick Civic Fund as a slush fund to pay for personal expenses with respect to which no, City, State or federal income taxes were paid,

Yes, 313hero, these are just charges now. We'll see whether there is an acquittal, plea or conviction sometime next year [[if the trial is not delayed further).

[bartock]

I reference the officer because He killed poor aiyana and the public has not received any answers. It was plenty of witnesses and a camera crew but a year later we have no idea what happened but if kk farts its all over the place.

Though I've disagreed with virtually every word of your rantings, it is a valid point with respect to Aiyana. However, I don't know if the mountain of civil suits the family filed against A & E, DPD, and a host of other defendants has anything to do with it, or the search for the "mystery tape" allegedly shown to Fieger.

As for kk, we don't know when he farts. kk runs to the media, farts into a megaphone, says it was a burp, and then wonders what all of the fuss is about. He brings the attention to himself, and that's the way he wants it.

[313hero]

As for kk, we don't know when he farts. kk runs to the media, farts into a megaphone, says it was a burp, and then wonders what all of the fuss is about. He brings the attention to himself, and that's the way he wants it.

So KK grocery shopping is him running to the media??? dont remember Kevin Dietz report when he followed KK in the grocery store? KK getting released from jail is running to the media? KK flying to the other side of the country to be greeted by the media is KK running to the media??? It seems the other way around to me. KK is the media's cash cow, and they will stop @ nothing to print a story about him.

[313hero]

Though I've disagreed with virtually every word of your rantings, it is a valid point with respect to Aiyana. However, I don't know if the mountain of civil suits the family filed against A & E, DPD, and a host of other defendants has anything to do with it, or the search for the "mystery tape" allegedly shown to Fieger.

.

I bet if that "mystery tape" was KK's text messages we would have seen it by now. Killing a baby is a much larger "scandal" than KK having sex in my book. but the media, prosecutos, MSP, FBI, all are just letting the whole thing blow over. But no outrage. I wonder why. Its funny to me to see all of these comments on KK this, KK that, but no one cares a child died at the hands of a police officer and they swept it under the rug. Like I said before its the man not the crime

[Woodward's Cousin]

With copies of "Surrendered" circulating to who knows how many friends and family like 313hero I don't think it will be long before some--ahem--perhaps more objective journalists than those at The Michigan Citizen have a chance to read the book and have a chance to critique it. Meanwhile, Mr. Kilpatrick's BFF Sharon McPhail has weighed in with her contribution to the Kwame Kilpatrick reputation enhancement effort:

http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/in...ct_chec_1.html