Does it make sense for Walled Lake to opt out of SMART?

[Scottathew]

While it is true that it will be harder to get stuff done, I have given to many causes all of my life.

Unfortunately now that I'm on a fixed income, I need to watch every penny so it is hard for me to

do as much for others as I have in the past.

Fair enough reasoning!

[Russix]

Russix with your bias towards Livonia residents, I'll just consider the source.

Remember when you retire to keep spending as freely as you do while you're employed and you will be on the dole in no time.

I love this board, it's so deliciously filled with hate or have I posted that before?

I'm not biased towards Livonia, it just bugs me when the backward retardedness of Anal Vil rears its ugly shithead on this board. It costs a household annually the price of Big Mac meal to pay the SMART millage and nobody is that broke, but some people are obviously that retarded. And then some jerk like you comes along and proclaims how they used it extensively for a long period of time, but not that you don't, fuck everybody else.

[HistoryNotHisStory]

This conversation is a moot point because, SMART and DDOT receives funding the Federal Goverment.

The Federal Government is now connecting their funding for transportation in the region with SMART and DDOT merging.

So in the long run, no one will opt-out. We all pay federal taxes.


Communities that opt-out of any regional transportation plan is has no vision of the future. When gas prices spike again and reaches $5 - $6 a gallon then they will beg to partake of a system that they did not support in the last twenty years.

[Autoracks]

this may be the motor city but still. I wish i didnt have to have a car. I rather pay 2 dollars and tune out. Dont want to pay car insurance, dont want to pay the note, dont want to fix it or pour gas and oil in it. I like the bus. Dont need the responsibility and dont like the statistics.

[Det_ard]

I'm not biased towards Livonia, it just bugs me when the backward retardedness of Anal Vil rears its ugly shithead on this board. It costs a household annually the price of Big Mac meal to pay the SMART millage and nobody is that broke, but some people are obviously that retarded. And then some jerk like you comes along and proclaims how they used it extensively for a long period of time, but not that you don't, fuck everybody else.

Big Mac? How do you figure that? Better check your calculations, you're way off.

I've paid over $1000 to SMART in the nine years I've been in my house. Never mind the fact that the nearest line is a five mile drive away, I've voted for it because I like the concept of a regional transit system, even though I've only used it once in nine years, just to see how it worked. I'm on the fence though as to whether its worth it.

I'd rather drive all the way to where I'm going than drive five miles to the end of the route, wait for a bus, sit on it for an hour, and walk a half-mile. Then do it again in the afternoon. I don't have time for that. But I know some people need it. Might be cheaper to just give folks taxi vouchers though.

[Zacha341]

I hear you regarding a car note and insurance [[astronomical unless you work at it to find a lower rate). I don't do car notes... I drive used cars. And love driving, or shall I say moreover the benefits of driving [[the feel of driving a good running car is a great). Sometimes it's a hassle with traffic jams and snags. But preferred still over the alternative of public transpo which I'd did heavily when younger.

this may be the motor city but still. I wish i didnt have to have a car. I rather pay 2 dollars and tune out. Dont want to pay car insurance, dont want to pay the note, dont want to fix it or pour gas and oil in it. I like the bus. Dont need the responsibility and dont like the statistics.

[Zacha341]

Yep, and any light rail or other train style of transpo will be federally funded as well.

This conversation is a moot point because, SMART and DDOT receives funding the Federal Goverment.

The Federal Government is now connecting their funding for transportation in the region with SMART and DDOT merging.

So in the long run, no one will opt-out. We all pay federal taxes.


Communities that opt-out of any regional transportation plan is has no vision of the future. When gas prices spike again and reaches $5 - $6 a gallon then they will beg to partake of a system that they did not support in the last twenty years.

[Jman]

Russix, not everybody else. Just you.

[Russix]

Russix, not everybody else. Just you.

Too bad it affects a broad segment of the population which no longer includes myself, but screw your selfish ass with thoughts of me tonight.

[Jman]

Russix, you know nothing about me. You rant on and on about something that is only worth the "price of a Big Mac" [[your words not mine) and call me selfish.

So that I may learn how to be generous, maybe you could list all of your benevolent activities to point out how selfish I have been all my life. Some I may match you on but I'm sure it will only be about 1% of what you have done in your lifetime.

I'm sure you have quite a list to offer. Be proud, don't hold back.

[Russix]

Russix, you know nothing about me. You rant on and on about something that is only worth the "price of a Big Mac" [[your words not mine) and call me selfish.

So that I may learn how to be generous, maybe you could list all of your benevolent activities to point out how selfish I have been all my life. Some I may match you on but I'm sure it will only be about 1% of what you have done in your lifetime.

I'm sure you have quite a list to offer. Be proud, don't hold back.

This has nothing to do with generosity, unless you’re a giant pompous ass. I don’t consider it very generous of myself that I contribute tax dollars to schools, but I used them at one time and still consider the importance of maintaining such infrastructures for others. You on the other hand go on to profess how you used a public service quite regularly but since it no longer suites you personally, you no longer consider the need for anyone else to use it. This is why I’m pleased to nominate you for the first Glenn Moon award.

[Jman]

If it has nothing to do with generosity, why do you call me selfish?

Please explain.

What other benevolent activities have you performed besides paying school taxes?

Who is Glen Moon?

Thanking you in advance for your quick response.

[R8RBOB]

...which is pretty silly, since DDOT has Plymouth Road service that serves Wonderland and Millenium Park [[at Middlebelt/Schoolcraft). http://www.ci.detroit.mi.us/Portals/...PlymouthMS.pdf

I guess they would have really had a problem if SMART was still in Livonia given that Livonia Mall is now WalMart North...

I must be old because I remember back in the day [[the 80's) when me and my cousin would catch the Plymouth Rd. bus to go to Wonderland. Was there a time when DDOT stopped going to Wonderland before they tore it down?

[mtburb]

I must be old because I remember back in the day [[the 80's) when me and my cousin would catch the Plymouth Rd. bus to go to Wonderland. Was there a time when DDOT stopped going to Wonderland before they tore it down?

Well, on a thread about last year's millage, there is a personal story about a ride on the SMART Plymouth bus [[before Livonia opted out). He boarded at Merriman and one of the stops was at Wonderland where a senior citizen boarded. Then he got off at Grand River to transfer to the DDOT Grand River bus to downtown which stopped every two blocks.

[cramerro]

I must be old because I remember back in the day [[the 80's) when me and my cousin would catch the Plymouth Rd. bus to go to Wonderland. Was there a time when DDOT stopped going to Wonderland before they tore it down?

I'm not sure about this one. I know that there were at least a few stores open pretty much up until the time they tore it down, and the Ford Part Depot across the street was going gangbusters when the construction was underway, so I don't think they ever stopped. Do you [[or anyone) know/remember if DDOT served the race track before it closed in 1998? The DDOT bus now goes west to the new Wonderland and also loops north along Middlebelt one mile into Millenium Park [[COSTCO, Home Depot, Meijer, etc) which is built on what was the west edge of the track property at Middlebelt and I-96.

[R8RBOB]

I'm not sure about this one. I know that there were at least a few stores open pretty much up until the time they tore it down, and the Ford Part Depot across the street was going gangbusters when the construction was underway, so I don't think they ever stopped. Do you [[or anyone) know/remember if DDOT served the race track before it closed in 1998? The DDOT bus now goes west to the new Wonderland and also loops north along Middlebelt one mile into Millenium Park [[COSTCO, Home Depot, Meijer, etc) which is built on what was the west edge of the track property at Middlebelt and I-96.

Going back in time to the 80's, I don't recall DDOT going to Ladbroke DRC. It was a straight shot to Wonderland and back east. There wasn't nothing much on Middlebelt and 96 other than Ladbroke and the Forest City/Handy Andy across the street for DDOT to travel that way.

Someone refresh my memory: Back in the day, did the Imperial Express use to go to Livonia Mall? I want to say yes but I can't remember.

[Danny]

[QUOTE: They also opted out since the Walmart on the Wonderland Mall site had been attracting black people. The city also lost many regional dollars. Since 2006, industries in Livonia have been dropping like flies.[/QUOTE]

Yes, I also I can see why Ford, GM Powertrain Plant other retail stores is Livonia are disapearing fast. In fact, the Plymouth Rd. Business Corridor is become like a Detroit ghetto! There are 90% white folks living in the area, but with a ruined business corridors. Livonia needs to STOP hiding behind their invincible great wall and start getting to regionalization before it becomes like Detroit in 50 years.

By the way, Livonia is not Canton TWP. Plymouth TWP. Northville TWP. Walled Lake, Novi and other ex-urban areas. It's a city that that closer to Detroit as any suburb. So it have to need the SMART busses for job regional growth or face being an instant ghetto.

[miketoronto1]

I don't think the reason for Jman voting against SMART service in Livonia is the right reason at all.

No offense to you jman, but would you vote to cancel Library service, because you don't use it and are on a fixed income?

If anything, senior people like yourself should know the value in having transits service there, because at any moment you could be without the ability to drive. And we all know the hardship seniors in Metro Detroit face with getting around once the car is not an option anymore.

Anyway I really don't think fixed income can be used as an excuse to cancel bus service in one of the largest suburbs of Detroit. If you were that down and out you would not have a car at all.

Metro Detroit really needs an overhaul in their transit laws. All communities should be getting transit, and there should not be a vote about it.

[Jman]

miketoronto1, if you are asking me if I would rather pay for library service that a large portion of the citizens of Livonia use or pay for a transit system that only 2% of the citizens use then I'll go with the library.

I'm not down and out and I plan on remaining that way. I do however manage my money to insure I don't become down and out. I am not using a fixed income as an excuse but as a reason.

If I out live my ability to drive, I have family to rely on. You know, the old fashion way.

" All communities should be getting transit, and there should not be a vote about it." Maybe that's how it works in Canada. I don't know, but here, we citizens prefer to have a say in our lives. Not something that is dictated to us.

By the way, thank you for letting me know what people like myself should know. I'll pass that information along to all of my senior friends so that they too can be enlightened.

[bc_n_dtown]

Going back in time to the 80's, I don't recall DDOT going to Ladbroke DRC. It was a straight shot to Wonderland and back east. There wasn't nothing much on Middlebelt and 96 other than Ladbroke and the Forest City/Handy Andy across the street for DDOT to travel that way.

Someone refresh my memory: Back in the day, did the Imperial Express use to go to Livonia Mall? I want to say yes but I can't remember.

Just responding here to a few earlier questions on this thread regarding DDOT service into Livonia:

DRC & WONDERLAND MALL
The Schoolcraft bus line had serviced DRC for years, with trips to Schoolcraft and Middlebelt since 1959. However, the Schoolcraft line was rerouted south along Middlebelt to Wonderland Mall in 1994. Although a DDOT route map shows both the Plymouth and Schoolcraft still servicing Wonderland in 1997, both lines were cut back to Telegraph in Jan 1998, after DDOT service cuts eliminated all service outside the city limits. In Sept 2002, the Plymouth line service to Wonderland was restored, but in Jan 2004 the line was rerouted north along Middlebelt to Schoolcraft, ending service to Wonderland.

LIVONIA MALL
The Imperial Express actually went farther than Livonia Mall for a period during the late-'80s when the line was extended along 7 Mile to Norhtville Hosp [[west of Haggerty). While most trips looped into Livonia Mall, some mid-day trips went to the NV Hosp. But in 1992, the Northville Hosp service was discontinued and the line terminated at Livonia Mall until 1994, when the line was cut back again, this time to 7 Mile and Gd River

[miketoronto1]

I bet the % of Livonia residents who use the library is not that high either. And on top of that, you can't use a 2% figure to say transit is not important.

I bet only something like 0.5% of people in Livonia probably use the main road outside your subdivision. Should that road get no upkeep?

How about fire and police. Even less use those services on a regular basis.

$20.00 bucks on the property tax bill is not going to break someone's bank account, regardless if on a fixed income or not, and I find it very troubling that people could vote against things like bus service, because they don't use it anymore.
It is this kind of thinking that prevails especially in the senior population that is holding out cities back big time for many things from transit, to city building, etc.
You would think the seniors who have the best life and financial footings of any people in history would be more open to ensuring everyone has the opportunities they had.

Please don't take any of these comments personally jman.

As I stated earlier, there really should not even be votes on things like transit. The home rule powers in states like Michigan are much too strong and should be removed.
The State needs to exercise some power and mandate and start regional transit service in all of Metro Detroit, along with mergers of school districts, municipalities, and other services.

[East Detroit]

As I stated earlier, there really should not even be votes on things like transit. The home rule powers in states like Michigan are much too strong and should be removed.
The State needs to exercise some power and mandate and start regional transit service in all of Metro Detroit, along with mergers of school districts, municipalities, and other services.

I agree 100%. A city deciding to "opt out" of regional transport is ridiculous.

[R8RBOB]

Just responding here to a few earlier questions on this thread regarding DDOT service into Livonia:

DRC & WONDERLAND MALL
The Schoolcraft bus line had serviced DRC for years, with trips to Schoolcraft and Middlebelt since 1959. However, the Schoolcraft line was rerouted south along Middlebelt to Wonderland Mall in 1994. Although a DDOT route map shows both the Plymouth and Schoolcraft still servicing Wonderland in 1997, both lines were cut back to Telegraph in Jan 1998, after DDOT service cuts eliminated all service outside the city limits. In Sept 2002, the Plymouth line service to Wonderland was restored, but in Jan 2004 the line was rerouted north along Middlebelt to Schoolcraft, ending service to Wonderland.

LIVONIA MALL
The Imperial Express actually went farther than Livonia Mall for a period during the late-'80s when the line was extended along 7 Mile to Norhtville Hosp [[west of Haggerty). While most trips looped into Livonia Mall, some mid-day trips went to the NV Hosp. But in 1992, the Northville Hosp service was discontinued and the line terminated at Livonia Mall until 1994, when the line was cut back again, this time to 7 Mile and Gd River

Thanks for clearing that up.

[Jman]

"I bet the % of Livonia residents who use the library is not that high either."
You would lose your bet.

" And on top of that, you can't use a 2% figure to say transit is not important."
Why not?

"I bet only something like 0.5% of people in Livonia probably use the main road outside your subdivision. Should that road get no upkeep?"
Not much of a gambler are you. You would also lose that bet.

"How about fire and police. Even less use those services on a regular basis."
Used by every citizen, every day.

"$20.00 bucks on the property tax bill is not going to break someone's bank account."
I see that it has gone from a price of a Big Mac to $20. Not even close. Do a little research.

"It is this kind of thinking that prevails especially in the senior population that is holding out cities back big time for many things from transit, to city building, etc"
Yep, we're the bad guys. We are just too old to understand.

"You would think the seniors who have the best life and financial footings of any people in history "
How do you think we got there? We worked our butts off for it just as you will.

"As I stated earlier, there really should not even be votes on things like transit. The home rule powers in states like Michigan are much too strong and should be removed."
As I stated earlier, we like to have a say in our lives. We will not be dictated to by the state as we the people are the state. You apparently think that there should be a person in charge to tell you what to think and what is best for you. Please tell me this is not true.

[Kevgoblue]

Simply amazing.
Jman is through using the bus, so he is no longer supportive of the system. Much like Russix and miketoronto, I have a hard time understanding the logic. I might be able to give you a pass if you said you never rode a bus. Instead, it was a system which you acknowledge that served you and your wife well for years. But now since you no longer utilize it, you would choose not to fund it? Did you stop to think that for all those years that you rode SMART many many others were not using it, but still subsidizing the system for you?

Or is your take simply, "I got mine, Fuck you."?
I know it may seem like a personal attack, but I sincerly cannot understand the thought process.