Stalking the Easy Marks Downtown

[Gannon]

That is why I said precisely what I said.

The preposition 'with' following the noun 'officers' indicated that the firepower and authority to contain belongs to the sworn officers.

I believe parking meter people should be publicized and THEY should be the eyes and ears FIRST, then if more are necessary a civilian patrol could be fashioned using the same communication system...again...OUTSIDE THE 911 EMERGENCY SYSTEM.

There has to be some way of notifying the police force of dangers as they are forming...so the whole system could be proactive instead of reactive. It would be best if it were limited to trained individuals who are crawling the city creating an income stream, then bolstered by volunteers if they prove to not be enough.


Cheers

[Autoracks]

i may expect there to be problems on Bagley by the Leland. North and West of the Fox theater because of the Park Hotel or any other week by week month by month hotels

[guito13]

Hey! I stared the guy in the face.

I'm not going to grip him...ever. LOL



But yeah, I hear ya, Brush...you're absolutely right. It is systematic, and in some cases generational.


I may have to open-carry, then. I'm not going to get any concealed carry permit.


I believe we will truly have problems when they start moving in packs.


My Glock can only carry 18 bullets.


And YES, I'm kidding. If the city gets so bad that I start feeling like having my sidearm with me at all times...then it'll be enough. Plus, I usually only come down for music and food...and you cannot HAVE your weapon in establishments that serve liquor, if I remember my CCW classes correctly!

Funny, I think the law says bars, schools, and churches.


Cheers

It says more than that. Any establishment that makes over 50% of their revenue from booze sales, stadiums, govt offices, any business that has a posting of "no guns allowed", while under the influence, etc. Good news is that if you are going out you can still bring your weapon and simply unload/secure it in your vehicle if before you go to any of these places. I have my CPL because I work in [[and sometimes wander) the city and I have been in some situations where i felt threatened. I hope that I never have to use it but I know that at least I will be ablt to be on more equal ground with any would be assailant.

[Gannon]

Thanks for that...guess I need to park closer to the bar then. LOL!

Perhaps we need to market those transmission-hump shotgun racks they used to use in cop cars...so citizens can lock up their shortie 12-gauge street-sweepers.


I'm making a joke about a serious thing, I know. I feel a bit flippant this morning.

I'd rather there be a check-in at the front door of the establishments I frequent...check yer coat, yer hat, yer car keys, AND yer Glock on the way in, but you cannot retrieve that last two if you're inebriated and/or disturbed emotionally on the way out.


Cheers

[majohnson]

I am sticking my neck out on this issue.

You felt marked?
Because somebody walked behind you?

Can you think of any other possible explanations?
Is yours the most plausible seeing that none of them even attempted anything?

You think you deterred a robber with a look? I don't think so.
A robber usually comes face to face and is looked at by the victim during the robbery.
A pick pocket might be deterred because she relies on stealth, a hold up guy does not rely on stealth.


You felt unsafe with whomever was walking behind you.
That does not make them a criminal. Especially when this occured several times, each with no crime upon you.
How many instances of suspect people not robbing you would be required before you questioned your ability to determine who is likely to rob you?

[Gannon]

Of course, Ma. Stick it out, let it ALL hang out, and your hair down. This is one extended debate outside of the usual restrictions of time/space, with no holds barred...and most of us willing to share a beer or two at the end of the day together. We are in this for the good of Detroit, at least I am.


I've lived in and around this city all my life, save for two short times off for good behavior. My girlfriend has as well...and her office is downtown. She is there every day during the week.

Do you REALLY think I'd have started a thread on this if it weren't substantial? Call for a return of a notorious and controversial police program on a whim, knowing full well the potential shitstorm?!

Really?!!

We should talk more in person, so you can get to know me better than through pieces of conversation tossed about at the picnic. I enjoyed meeting you, but there were SO many distractions that day.


I believe I've been pretty specific with my language here...and not inflammatory. I was not afraid, and AM not afraid...but am always aware of my surroundings. Same with my partner...although I'd admit it shook her up for a while because the last and closest encounter was on the very block where she parks her car for work.


Plus, I'm not a fan of increasing police powers and surveillance. Matter of fact, I was ready for some to chime in here with some accusation of hypocricy...because I am an outlaw in a few very clear and public manners. I would specifically say I'd want these decoys to never interfere with anyone's personal consumption of any substances, as long as they weren't doing anything which may endanger others. I think the 'drug war' is the stupidest thing since Prohibition, and THAT was an amendment to the CONSTITUTION! It is even MORE stupid, since it is clear that both the government and citizenry have either failed memories or are ignorant of history [[or both)!

It is FAILED LAW which should be fully and completely repealed. All of it. The Drug War should end. Yesterday.


But thanks for asking for the clarification, especially the WAY you did...because you are right, those specifics needed to be made clear.

We felt marked three times. Because three times individuals who were walking towards us turned around and began approaching us from behind. There was a certain change in their paths and trajectories and focus of attention. It was on us.

I have no doubt that what I speak is the most plausible explanation.

I believe the potential robbers might've been deterred by our lack of fear, and boldness to show them notice. When I'm alone, I've been known to approach THEM and begin a friendly conversation. Once it is established that I'm a person, and not just a mark with cash, I've found that their attitude changes completely. I do not make myself vulnerable.


I'll never forget the one time a fellow walked into my old loft in Eastern Market, because I usually kept the garage doors opened on warmer days. I stopped him within three feet, then escorted him to the sidewalk...some 30 feet away...and then took 30 minutes talking with him. I was quite stern and ready for action within my own house...and was not five feet from a weapon if I needed it...but was my usual friendly self on the sidewalk.

During the discussion, I noticed one of my neighbors had been parked in his car, talking on the phone and watching the whole situation. Afterwards, he gave me a nod and grin of appreciation...he is a Sheriff Deputy and has undoubtedly encountered similar situations. It WAS good to have local backup if I needed it. We watched over each other in that neighborhood...just like we do now in my partner's neighborhood in Stepford Park. I mean Gross Pointe Park.


Cheers!

[pffft]

Females are routinely pegged as easy marks, it comes with the territory. And yes, an assertive look can often convince the more casual predator to walk on.

[JBMcB]

I used to kill time between classes sitting by a window several floors up at the Science Library at WSU and people-watch. Occasionally you could pick out the predators when the campus was relatively empty.

Students are going to class or looking around a bit. Predators are looking at the students. One would walk by a student, walk another ten yards or so, check out the student, check out the surroundings, then do a U-turn. I've come close enough that I've had the blue light phone in my hand - but fortunately every time a crowd would come along and the predator would break off.

I've also been behind someone where they did the same thing. Someone would pass us the other direction, a few yards later he'd turn around, see me, and head off in some other direction.

You can absolutely pick out this behavior. They just give off the wrong vibe - they're edgy, look around too much, don't seem to be walking anywhere in particular. They wore the wrong things [[Boots - I don't know any student, faculty or staff who walked around in boots in the summer)

[preserve]

jbmcb - Obviously you missed the Taylor Swift concert at Ford Field, I saw more silly folks in boots - with daisy duke shorts, sundresses etc.

[JBMcB]

jbmcb - Obviously you missed the Taylor Swift concert at Ford Field, I saw more silly folks in boots - with daisy duke shorts, sundresses etc.

Wasn't the style when I was going to college

Besides, student's didn't wear boots because you tended to do a lot of walking. Even the faculty people I knew who wore boots for their jobs would take them off to walk to their cars.

[English]

Um, I mentioned feeling this way last year in March on the People Mover, and that thread turned out to be a hot flaming stinking mess. Sheesh. Next time, I'll take a video and post it so folks will believe a sistah.

Anyway. I'm back in the city once again, as a resident, and am friends with/privy to conversations of black Detroiters. There is a lot of resentment among all classes, but especially the poor, that after decades upon decades of being abandoned, that, as they put it, "the white folks are gonna come back and push us out." I routinely point that out as ridiculous, that even if every single person who abandoned the D over the past 40 years came back we'd still have room, but many aren't buying it. [[I am starting to believe that you can't tell metro Detroiters, no matter what their ethnicity, nothin'. :-))

We need a couple of things that I'm not sure how to make happen. You've got to get a critical mass back into healthy [[or semi-healthy) areas, and you need an economy that is accessible to semi-skilled and unskilled workers, perhaps even ones with severe physical, mental, and emotional issues. The nation, the state, and especially the region is not in the mood to spend what it would take to incentivize [[sp?) Detroit residency, and as long as people have a NIMBY, don't tread on me, attitude about taxes, not only will the underclass in this nation suffer, the infrastructure is going to continue to deteriorate.

We are in trouble, and I can't see it ending any time soon. From DC to Lansing to CAY, our leadership has no vision and is weak. I have been wondering for a while if this is what living in the Late Roman Empire felt like...

[rb336]

I remember back when I worked in Jamaica, my driver and I would sit out in ocho rios and pick out the ones who were going to get robbed - usually the typical "ugly american" types or the african americans who tried "acting jamaican"

[majohnson]

Gannon,

I was not implying anything by saying you felt unsafe. I think many people feel a certain amount unsafe or atleast on guard.
As a citizen you should feel entitled to asking for whatever level of conventional police support that would make you feel safe.
I would like to see police officers walk/bike Park Street and other

I am only asking that you think deeply about whether those people walking behind you were actually robbers.
Detroit is filled with blight, however most empty houses are not crack-houses or crime dens , they just happen to look bad.
Detroit also has a large number of people who are not well pressed and presentable.

I doubt you think anyone not well dressed is a potential robber.
But I think you may be erring on the side of suspicion when the person also behaves unconventionally.

A robber with a handgun will not be deterred by a weaponless person who says hello.
A robber without a weapon will try to bump a person and make off with the victim's purse or backpack. A robber without a weapon will not request money from a wallet, the victim may beat them up, have pepper spray, or more simply just run away.
A robber with a gun already has her finger on the trigger when making the final approach, turning around to greet them only changes the time of initial contact.

PM me if you want to grab a beer at Park bar.

[majohnson]

Uh Oh English,

You are not supposed to talk about "The Plan".
I was speaking with someone about recent downtown Detroit developments and they told me, "White people want Detroit back."

Whew, that could be a thread all by itself.

[joesmithrocks]

I've been living downtown about a year and half. I've worked in the city in the past, but this recent residency is the most experience I've had in the city. During my time, I've see crime increase downtown, with a noticeable upturn in the last few months. I don't know why.

Having said that I've seen crime increase, I haven't personally been a victim. I haven't noticed being marked - and I'm pretty aware. And I'm out a lot. I have never been mugged or robbed in any way, though I was in what appeared to be a pretty dicey situation once...

A little over a year ago, after I first move in, I was chased one night by two goups of young teenagers who were driving two cars. It was 12:30 on a Tuesday night, I was riding my skateboard home to the Millender Center from the Cliff Bells. On Broadway, I passed the kids, they started yelling at me from the other side of the boulevard, and then gave chase. It freaked me out pretty good. I cut across Harmonie Park, crossed Gratiot, and then went down Brush the wrong way [[it's a one-way going north). They continued chasing, but they didn't follow me the wrong way down Brush - they cut across it behind me and went around the block. At the time, i thought they must not be very serious about catching me if they won't drive down this one-way street. The streets were empty. There were no cops and no witnesses. They could have had me in seconds if they really wanted me. I thought, maybe they were just teenagers fucking with me, and never intended to actually catch me. Still, I was scared.

I made it to Sweetwater Tavern, ducked inside and watched out the window - both cars made it to the corner outside the bar, one came up Brush the correct way, and the other came up Larned. They hung around talking it over for a minute, and then drove away. When I entered my apartment building across the street, there was a cop in the lobby. I told him what happened - and he couldn't have cared less. I don't say that as a knock against the cop. It was just a fact. I wasn't injured or robbed, and he didn't seem to care at all.

My friends had strong opinions about the event - most thought the threat of robbery or a beat down was pretty real. One friend told me there are thug kids around who would shoot me for my cool skateboard and not think twice about it. I don't know if that's true, but I hear it is. One friend who's a nurse at Receiving Hospital was far more spooked than me. She said they get victims of violent muggings at Receiving all week long. That same week she was treating a guy who was mugged while he was riding his bike up east Jefferson - they got him while he was riding, and beat him up bad. His hands were badly injured and he was admitted for multiple days. They stole his phone, and he couldn't call his family because he had none of their numbers memorized. [[How sad is that?)

After that night, I quit skating and walking alone at night downtown during midweek - over any considerable distance. I will walk close to home. The streets are empty after eight o'clock, and you're easily isolated. Some weeks ago I had spring fever real bad, and so I skated over to the Park Bar on a Thursday night. But I was uncomfortable on the ride home. It felt unwise. And I won't do it again. On the weekends, I feel much safer walking around because there are more people. But I keep my eyes open. And even on those weekend nights, I don't walk far after 12:30. And I don't walk at all on desolate streets.

I hate telling this story. I'm heavily conflicted by crime in the city. While I've never been robbed or attacked in Detroit, I had cars broken into in Ann Arbor and in Windsor. And I had a garage broken into in Dearborn. Still, the THREAT of crime seems present constantly in Detroit. And recent shootings near my home in the city are impossible to ignore, or forget. I want to stay in the city. I love my city. I don't want to be chased on my skateboard - just because it's a beautiful night.

But, here I am.

It would be great to have a police program that targeted downtown robbery. But I don't think that'll happen. The DPD has said they have on average 100 cops working Detroit on any given night. That's spreading them awfully thin. The heavy police presence on the river walk is boosted by the private security paid by GM - and that ends at 10:00. It's hard to imagine the resources needed for a program like this being dedicated anytime soon - however smart and necessary it may be.

But I hope I'm wrong.

[English]

Uh Oh English,

You are not supposed to talk about "The Plan".

LMAO! I mean, if there is a master plan, I just don't think that the majority of white folks know about it. Maybe the Powers That Be sit down and have these meetings at a country club somewhere, but your Average White Person is just as clueless about it as we are.

I was speaking with someone about recent downtown Detroit developments and they told me, "White people want Detroit back."

Whew, that could be a thread all by itself.

Well, young educated professionals want cities back, in general. It so happens that the majority of them happen to be white. The Millennial Generation is starting a trek back to urban centers that will rival their grandparents' exodus to suburbia. The social generation with their "Social Networks" want social 'hoods.

[Gianni]

Gannon basically the same thing happenned to me in the same place on a weekend night last summer. The wife and I were walking to Cliff Bell's from our car which was parked on one of those streets behind the Fox. There was some event at the Fox or maybe a Tiger game and a lot of people were on the street walking back to their cars. My wife, who has really good street radar, noticed this somewhat creepy young guy walk past us, turn around and come back in our direction. We looked him in the eye and let him know we saw him and that was the end of it. I didn't have the feeling that we were being targeted [[although we very well could have been) because we were not the only ones on the street. We did watch the guy for a minute and noticed he was patrolling back and forth and crossing the street eratically so it was obvious he was not on his way to anywhere. He was looking for an opportunity.

This is probably a regular occurence for these bad guys, and you would think the DPD knows it. We definitely need more cops back on those streets on the weekend, instead of all of them on Woodward directing traffic and talking to each other.

Regarding decoys, I'm not sure we need decoys but we do need plainclothes cops. Not sure if there is really a difference. Uniformed cops deter. Plainclothes don't deter but are ready to move when something happens. Since the shootings on the Riverwalk a few weeks ago I heard that there are a lot of plainclothes and undercover on the River Walk. Also noticed they posted a curfew for minors after 5 pm. We need more cops on the street downtown, plain and simple.

[majohnson]

All of us are entitled to an environment that is actually safe and inspires a feeling of safety.

The streets surrounding Cliff Bells are probably less safe than Main Street in Royal Oak but safer than Van Dyke and Harper in Detroit.
I would jog to the closest safe location if ,after nightfall, my car broke down at Van Dyke and Harper out of fear, irrespective of the actual risk to myself. Deep down, I am okay with that. In that situation I would become tense if I saw a group of young loud people headed toward me or perhaps just standing around.

On the other hand, I simply don't want to believe and would be hurt to face the cold reality that the street with two of my favorite bars is really a dangerous place.
I don't want to believe that Detroit, which means so much to me personally, even in its best parts is dangerous.

There is perhaps a fairness issue when focusing City of Detroit resouces on downtown Detroit, but I would like to see police foot patrols in up and coming parts of Detroit.
Gannon deserves to feel safe and to actually be safe. We all do.

[English]

Amen. In the end, it's all about trying to make public safety a priority in the city of Detroit once again. I think it will happen, at least in certain areas. People are demanding it.

[Zacha341]

Yep, no doubt a predator acts differently than an passer by. And you can feel when you're being marked... and it's best to be safe with anyone acting strangely such as turning around AFTER you pass them etc. I was marked on Henry Ford Community Campus [[Dearborn) one day [[an individual abruptly 'changed' their original path of walking along to heading towards my direction after seeing me alone heading into a building).

Only by responding quickly to the man swiftly approaching and turning to face him on an abandoned stair case and asking him LOUDLY if I could help him did he break off. I had my keys to my classroom in my hand and he saw that and thankfully someone walked upon us and he pretended to say he was a student 'looking' for a rum and took off hastily. I called campus security and the man was never found.

College campuses ARE notoriously dangerous in my opinion and as instructor I never sit in my classroom alone with my door unlocked. When it is time for class to start I then unlock my door. I have security walk me to my car if the area is to abandoned or it is too late at night. Better safe than sorry....

I used to kill time between classes sitting by a window several floors up at the Science Library at WSU and people-watch. Occasionally you could pick out the predators when the campus was relatively empty.

Students are going to class or looking around a bit. Predators are looking at the students. One would walk by a student, walk another ten yards or so, check out the student, check out the surroundings, then do a U-turn. I've come close enough that I've had the blue light phone in my hand - but fortunately every time a crowd would come along and the predator would break off.

I've also been behind someone where they did the same thing. Someone would pass us the other direction, a few yards later he'd turn around, see me, and head off in some other direction.

You can absolutely pick out this behavior. They just give off the wrong vibe - they're edgy, look around too much, don't seem to be walking anywhere in particular. They wore the wrong things [[Boots - I don't know any student, faculty or staff who walked around in boots in the summer)

[Zacha341]

Yeah, there's a perception that folks out for late night drinks or dinner after the show or game are NAIVE sitting ducks for the random shake down, or worse a beat down. One of the signatures of such "opportunity" seekers is a change in direction as they "try you".

This type is often thwarted by a face off, but not always. But for certain they prefer the person unaware of their behavior or those who choose to be POLITE [[or ignores their gut) and not acknowledge what is about to occur. Good everything worked out.

Gannon basically the same thing happenned to me in the same place on a weekend night last summer. The wife and I were walking to Cliff Bell's from our car which was parked on one of those streets behind the Fox. There was some event at the Fox or maybe a Tiger game and a lot of people were on the street walking back to their cars. My wife, who has really good street radar, noticed this somewhat creepy young guy walk past us, turn around and come back in our direction. We looked him in the eye and let him know we saw him and that was the end of it.... We did watch the guy for a minute and noticed he was patrolling back and forth and crossing the street eratically so it was obvious he was not on his way to anywhere. He was looking for an opportunity.

[Richard]

I was relying to another post in it stuck it here disregard

[Downtown Lady]

Since the shootings on the Riverwalk a few weeks ago

Somehow I hadn't heard anything about this. Can anyone provide information or a link? Thank you!

[Kevgoblue]

I was walking with my wife a couple weeks ago and we experienced a similar incident.

We had left the theatre in Birmingham and while walking down [[old) Woodward a group of teenage boys crossed the street and began quickly walking toward us. We didn't know them and there was something devious about the way that they were walking towards us and laughing. I think they were up to something.
My wife is quick thinking and quite street smart. She looked them dead in the eyes and said "you're supposed to cross at the corner". I believe this message of authority was the only thing that saved us from possibly becoming a mark.

They need more police in Birmingham.

[pffft]

I was walking with my wife a couple weeks ago and we experienced a similar incident.

We had left the theatre in Birmingham and while walking down [[old) Woodward a group of teenage boys crossed the street and began quickly walking toward us. We didn't know them and there was something devious about the way that they were walking towards us and laughing. I think they were up to something.
My wife is quick thinking and quite street smart. She looked them dead in the eyes and said "you're supposed to cross at the corner". I believe this message of authority was the only thing that saved us from possibly becoming a mark.

They need more police in Birmingham.

Yeah the shootings down at Booth Park in B'ham are worrisome.