Detroit budget proposal would cut $52 million from police, fire

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20120412/METRO01/204120415/Detroit-budget-proposal-would-cut-52-million-from-police-fire?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE

There is minimal protection now, long response times because there is no manpower, firefighters working overtime to the extent that it is now dangerous to themselves and others [[due to fatigue), Police coverage is slow....what will happen now if they go through with these cuts?

Many departments are left unscathed. Some departments should be closed. Why would a City cut emergency responders? If someone can answer this question, I'd love to know the answer. These City leaders need to get the hell out of the CAY building because they are inept buffoons!

The officers on the street need to be the #1 priority. The upper management is basically useless and earns a lot more in salaries. Cut back on administrators and put the priority where it should be.

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Originally Posted by Buy American

These City leaders need to get the hell out of the CAY building because they are inept buffoons!

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It's the folks in Lansing who are utlimately dictating these cuts, so I guess under your logic they're also inept buffoons and need to get the hell out of the Capitol Building!!!

If I recall correctly, 2/3 of the city's budget is dedicated to the police and fire departments. Cuts to these departments, thus, we're inevitable under the agreement.

yes, let's cut public safety beyond the bare bones that it is now, then hire a private company to take over police, fire and ambulance service. What could possibly go wrong?

Emergency responders will also have to be cut.

However, they need to keep in mind that government has some CORE services it provides, that being police, fire, water, and waste.

Other areas should be cut a lot harder [[percentage-wise) than the core services.

This board is pretty funny sometimes. Everyone clamors for "necessary" spending cuts, talks about how they won't be painful at all and in fact they'll magically cause sunshine and roses and long-term fiscal sustainability to sprout all over the city! Then the actual list of spending cuts comes out, and everybody shits a brick. "What? You mean core services are being cut? I just meant we should cut buses for poor people and lay off a bunch of 'administrators' whose jobs must not be important because I don't intuitively understand what they do!"

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Originally Posted by rb336

yes, let's cut public safety beyond the bare bones that it is now, then hire a private company to take over police, fire and ambulance service. What could possibly go wrong?

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I hear Keystone Korporation has a competitive offer...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8jphxpi1ro

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Originally Posted by Buy American

Many departments are left unscathed. Some departments should be closed.

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Which ones. I'm assuming that you have gone through the 400+ page pdf line by line and identified [[a) which departments are left unscathed and [[b) determined which should be closed.

If so, I would love to hear your thoughts on the two.

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Why would a City cut emergency responders? If someone can answer this question, I'd love to know the answer.

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Because they are the largest percent of the budget. Nobody wants to see these cuts but achieving financially stability by cutting from the smaller departments won't get the city in the financial situation it needs to be in.

The proposed budget is $1.2 Billion. Of that, it appears at first glance that the FD and DPD represent 41% of total spending

DFD: $149 Million [[$408,000 per day)
DPD: $339 Million [[$929,000 per day)

To say that DFD and DPD are being slashed to the bone and shouldn't get hit with cuts is disingenious if you have any expectation or hope of achieving financial stability.

I think the bigger question is 'What are we getting from our more than $900,000 per day spent on police. Given the poor response times, limited numbers of officers, etc I'd like to know where this upwards of $1MM daily expenditure is going.

[/QUOTE] These City leaders need to get the hell out of the CAY building because they are inept buffoons![/QUOTE]

So what recommendations would you make.

They haven't even picked the review board yet. This is just the current administration doing what they should have been doing for the past 10yrs.
None of means anything at this point.

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Originally Posted by Wheels

They haven't even picked the review board yet. This is just the current administration doing what they should have been doing for the past 10yrs.
None of means anything at this point.

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However, since the agreement is currently binding, no financial decision can go into effect until the review board approves it, whenever they're appointed.

So we do at least have SOME time to let all of this settle.

So to better facilitate the discussion with a little information to back it up I have grabbed the 2010-2011 expenditures and the proposed budget for each department from the PDF [[I figure 15 minutes of my time is worth having actual numbers for the discussion).

There are 37 departments in the budget [[some include grant monies, some are revenue generating and some are not, I believe, direct city budget like sewage and water).

The numbers are as follows [[Anyone know how to upload an excel file?):

	2010 Actual	Proposed	Change
10 AIRPORT 1	3,462,944	0	-100%
11 ARTS 4	3,200	0	-100%
12 BUDGET 5	2,314,432	2,023,517	-13%
13 BUILDINGS & SAFETY ENVIRONMENTAL 7	37,331,751	23,135,868	-38%
18 DEBT SERVICE 12	134,690,100	74,426,582	-45%
19 DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC WORKS 14	165,237,987	101,246,334	-39%
20 DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION 46	259,575,275	142,988,698	-45%
21 DETROIT WORKFORCE DEVELOPMENT DEPARTMENT 55	130,490,160	0	-100%
23 FINANCE 97	38,220,631	32,699,691	-14%
24 FIRE 102	200,318,245	159,954,156	-20%
25 DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND WELLNESS PROMOTION 110	79,719,789	0	-100%
28 HUMAN RESOURCES 183	14,399,279	8,007,951	-44%
29 HUMAN RIGHTS 187	871,003	0	-100%
30 HUMAN SERVICES 189	102,176,857	0	-100%
31 INFORMATION & TECHNOLOGY SERVICES 222	20,623,692	14,278,267	-31%
32 LAW 224	18,312,178	8,631,938	-53%
33 MAYOR'S OFFICE 226	9,488,527	3,953,534	-58%
34 MUNICIPAL PARKING 230	32,855,384	19,214,738	-42%
35 NON-DEPARTMENTAL 234	871,347,891	436,018,126	-50%
36 PLANNING & DEVELOPMENT 255	94,820,877	45,989,612	-51%
37 POLICE 306	467,152,601	339,593,842	-27%
38 PUBLIC LIGHTING 339	61,338,765	57,283,938	-7%
39 RECREATION 344	20,989,265	12,268,611	-42%
41 WATER 357	603,149,535	393,892,255	-35%
42 SEWERAGE 369	674,796,921	539,497,345	-20%
45 DEPARTMENT OF ADMINISTRATIVE HEARINGS 381	1,545,467	657,143	-57%
46 OFFICE OF HOMELAND SECURITY 383	2,971,712	0	-100%
47 GENERAL SERVICES DEPARTMENT 388	68,592,098	39,099,514	-43%
50 AUDITOR GENERAL 395	3,188,491	2,942,305	-8%
51 BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS 396	774,535	606,566	-22%
52 CITY COUNCIL 398	13,060,821	8,296,003	-36%
53 OMBUDSPERSON 404	1,093,379	592,292	-46%
54 INSPECTOR GENERAL 405	0	592,292	#DIV/0!
60 36TH DISTRICT COURT 406	45,984,802	31,033,117	-33%
70 CITY CLERK 408	2,624,682	2,070,070	-21%
71 ELECTION COMMISSION 410	8,054,478	5,092,776	-37%
72 LIBRARY	48,829,418	32,663,695	-33%
	4,240,407,172	2,538,750,776

And sorted in order of budget reduction:

	2010 Actual	Proposed	Change
10 AIRPORT 1	3,462,944	0	-100%
11 ARTS 4	3,200	0	-100%
21 DETROIT WORKFORCE DEVELOPMENT DEPARTMENT 55	130,490,160	0	-100%
25 DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND WELLNESS PROMOTION 110	79,719,789	0	-100%
29 HUMAN RIGHTS 187	871,003	0	-100%
30 HUMAN SERVICES 189	102,176,857	0	-100%
46 OFFICE OF HOMELAND SECURITY 383	2,971,712	0	-100%
33 MAYOR'S OFFICE 226	9,488,527	3,953,534	-58%
45 DEPARTMENT OF ADMINISTRATIVE HEARINGS 381	1,545,467	657,143	-57%
32 LAW 224	18,312,178	8,631,938	-53%
36 PLANNING & DEVELOPMENT 255	94,820,877	45,989,612	-51%
35 NON-DEPARTMENTAL 234	871,347,891	436,018,126	-50%
53 OMBUDSPERSON 404	1,093,379	592,292	-46%
20 DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION 46	259,575,275	142,988,698	-45%
18 DEBT SERVICE 12	134,690,100	74,426,582	-45%
28 HUMAN RESOURCES 183	14,399,279	8,007,951	-44%
47 GENERAL SERVICES DEPARTMENT 388	68,592,098	39,099,514	-43%
39 RECREATION 344	20,989,265	12,268,611	-42%
34 MUNICIPAL PARKING 230	32,855,384	19,214,738	-42%
19 DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC WORKS 14	165,237,987	101,246,334	-39%
13 BUILDINGS & SAFETY ENVIRONMENTAL 7	37,331,751	23,135,868	-38%
71 ELECTION COMMISSION 410	8,054,478	5,092,776	-37%
52 CITY COUNCIL 398	13,060,821	8,296,003	-36%
41 WATER 357	603,149,535	393,892,255	-35%
72 LIBRARY	48,829,418	32,663,695	-33%
60 36TH DISTRICT COURT 406	45,984,802	31,033,117	-33%
31 INFORMATION & TECHNOLOGY SERVICES 222	20,623,692	14,278,267	-31%
37 POLICE 306	467,152,601	339,593,842	-27%
51 BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS 396	774,535	606,566	-22%
70 CITY CLERK 408	2,624,682	2,070,070	-21%
24 FIRE 102	200,318,245	159,954,156	-20%
42 SEWERAGE 369	674,796,921	539,497,345	-20%
23 FINANCE 97	38,220,631	32,699,691	-14%
12 BUDGET 5	2,314,432	2,023,517	-13%
50 AUDITOR GENERAL 395	3,188,491	2,942,305	-8%
38 PUBLIC LIGHTING 339	61,338,765	57,283,938	-7%
54 INSPECTOR GENERAL 405	0	592,292	#DIV/0!
	4,240,407,172	2,538,750,776

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jt1

And sorted in order of budget reduction:

	2010 Actual	Proposed	Change
10 AIRPORT 1	3,462,944	0	-100%
11 ARTS 4	3,200	0	-100%
21 DETROIT WORKFORCE DEVELOPMENT DEPARTMENT 55	130,490,160	0	-100%
25 DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND WELLNESS PROMOTION 110	79,719,789	0	-100%
29 HUMAN RIGHTS 187	871,003	0	-100%
30 HUMAN SERVICES 189	102,176,857	0	-100%
46 OFFICE OF HOMELAND SECURITY 383	2,971,712	0	-100%

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Airport -- of course

Arts -- well, $3,200 wasn't doing much anyway

'Workforce Development' -- should not be a city function

Health and Wellness Promotion -- Wellness Promotion great idea, but I can see that being cut. Health? Is this the entire Health Department? Is this being transferred to County? If so, that make sense.

Human Rights - None of the City's business

Human Services - What on earth is that? No one can be against Human Services, but $102 million for a department whose name doesn't describe what it does?

Office of Homeland Security - Last I heard this was a federal cabinet department. Shouldn't be separate from police.


Thanks for the list.

WJBK played a clip today of JoAnn Watson throwing a fit over the cuts. She stated that this is a, and I directly quote, "right-wing gangster takeover".

I'm just astonished at how Watson can be so stupid. Doesn't she get it? She's part of the reason the city is bankrupt. Is she ever going to try to fix it? Or is she just going to keep spewing out divisive speech?

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Originally Posted by Buy American

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20120412/METRO01/204120415/Detroit-budget-proposal-would-cut-52-million-from-police-fire?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE

There is minimal protection now, long response times because there is no manpower, firefighters working overtime to the extent that it is now dangerous to themselves and others [[due to fatigue), Police coverage is slow....what will happen now if they go through with these cuts?

Many departments are left unscathed. Some departments should be closed. Why would a City cut emergency responders? If someone can answer this question, I'd love to know the answer. These City leaders need to get the hell out of the CAY building because they are inept buffoons!

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Your post suggests that you believe that increased budget for the department translates into better 'coverage'. Why do you think that when history shows otherwise?

I don't think there's much evidence that given more money, that it'll be spent improving manpower levels.

Of course money is necessary, but just as important is competence. I'm sure the DPD Crime Lab cost a lot to run. No evidence that it did much except lose things. We're no worse off without it, from what I can see.

[[Not a Detroit resident today, but have been for most of my life. And I did interact with DPD for residence and business.)

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Originally Posted by Buy American

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20120412/METRO01/204120415/Detroit-budget-proposal-would-cut-52-million-from-police-fire?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE

There is minimal protection now, long response times because there is no manpower, firefighters working overtime to the extent that it is now dangerous to themselves and others [[due to fatigue), Police coverage is slow....what will happen now if they go through with these cuts?

Many departments are left unscathed. Some departments should be closed. Why would a City cut emergency responders? If someone can answer this question, I'd love to know the answer. These City leaders need to get the hell out of the CAY building because they are inept buffoons!

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I'm going to assume the quote below from the article YOU sited above was added after you initially read it and posted the link to it...


”The proposed budget Thursday calls for $32 million in savings from the police department through cutting officers through attrition, work rule changes and a 10 percent wage cut.”

Cutting officers through attrition means the officers voluntarily left, retired or were fired for some reason -- just the normal comings and goings of employees. The 10% wage cut that will likely be imposed on Police should yield a good amount of that $32 million by itself. I didn't see anything about Police service cuts anywhere in that article.

I don't have the budget docs handy but I bet most of those depts. being zeroed out were funded primarily by state and federal funds. If that's the case, they'll have little or no benefit to the city's bottom line.

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Originally Posted by Buy American

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20120412/METRO01/204120415/Detroit-budget-proposal-would-cut-52-million-from-police-fire?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE

There is minimal protection now, long response times because there is no manpower, firefighters working overtime to the extent that it is now dangerous to themselves and others [[due to fatigue), Police coverage is slow....what will happen now if they go through with these cuts?

Many departments are left unscathed. Some departments should be closed. Why would a City cut emergency responders? If someone can answer this question, I'd love to know the answer. These City leaders need to get the hell out of the CAY building because they are inept buffoons!

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Also, the Deputy Mayor said they are cutting $160 million from the budget by eliminating and consolidating departments. The proposed cuts to Police and Fire are about $50 million, much of that thorough the 10% wage cut. The rest of the departments have already taken a 10% wage cut so where do you think that other $110 million in cuts is gonna come from if Police and Fire are not laying personnel off?

It takes a lot of nerve for one to call these elected officials ”buffoons” when you make comments that make one question whether you [[based on your comment) have mastered basic reading comprehension and math.

If you use the 2011 - 2012 budget, here's the net impact of these department cuts on the city's bottom line:

Airport - $0
Arts - $3,200 -an assumption as there's no line item for it in the budget summary.
Workforce Development - $1,700
Health and Wellness - $6,492,650
Human Rights - $481,843
Human Services - $0
Homeland Security - $312,418

Cutting all these departments saves the city a little over $7,000,000.

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Originally Posted by Novine

I don't have the budget docs handy but I bet most of those depts. being zeroed out were funded primarily by state and federal funds. If that's the case, they'll have little or no benefit to the city's bottom line.

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That's a good point. But I wouldn't assume that State funding covers the whole cost of the workers. In addition to payroll, the cost of pensions, benefits, office space, elevator service, payroll processing, HR, etc. might well have been left to the City.

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Originally Posted by Novine

I don't have the budget docs handy but I bet most of those depts. being zeroed out were funded primarily by state and federal funds. If that's the case, they'll have little or no benefit to the city's bottom line.

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Here is the PDF: http://www.freep.com/assets/freep/pdf/C4187887412.PDF

"That's a good point. But I wouldn't assume that State funding covers the whole cost of the workers. In addition to payroll, the cost of pensions, benefits, office space, elevator service, payroll processing, HR, etc. might well have been left to the City."

The city may have absorbed some of those costs. The budget doc jt1 linked to doesn't include a breakdown to that detail. But even if that's true, it's only a few hundred employees. The city's going to have to cut a lot more than that to make any appreciable dent in its budget problems.

Hopefully City Council salaries and staff are eliminated.

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Originally Posted by skyl4rk

Hopefully City Council salaries and staff are eliminated.

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Would you do the same to your representatives in Lansing?

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Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

Would you do the same to your representatives in Lansing?

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At least half of them, yes. Unicameral legislatures are just as efficient. Add part-time legislature to the mix, then you may be on to something.