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That's true.Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnnny5
There is, however, a difference between what's right/wrong and what's legal. It would be nice if the pro-Zimmerman crowd would drop the righteous indignation and just accept the fact that the guy killed a lone kid walking home from the store. It's Zimmermans' actions that led to this situation.
The same Government that preaches "equality"??Quote:
Originally Posted by oladub
The same Government that complains they need more tax money from us??
The same Government that says we're not paying our "fair share"??
http://media.knoxnews.com/media/img/...9d186_t607.jpg
First of all, I'm just an observer, so I have no influence on who wins or loses, nor will it effect my life either way it turns out.
If you have actually been watching the trial, you would know they called a witness who stated her home had been broken into by a man who matches Treyvon's description, and burglaries had occurred in the community, thus justifying the need for a Community watch in the first place. Should Zimmerman have pursued the man after the cops told him not to? Probably not. If Zimmerman stopped following Martin, and if something HAD happened, it would be fully on the police department to be held accountable for it, and Zimmerman's job was done. Vigilante justice and Community watch are 2 different things.
So, yes, Zimmerman had just cause to follow Treyvon, due to recent burglaries in the area occurring. He should have stopped following Treyvon when they police told him to not pursue him any further.
The prosecution saw yesterday that the odds of convicting Zimmerman on 2nd degree murder was not in their favor.
Today, possibly to appease the media and the anti-Zimmerman crowd who was frenzied at the hands of Jessie Jackson and Al Sharpton, and then by Obama who said Treyvon, a marijuana smoking & troubled kid who got kicked out of school could have been his son, flamed the situation even more, the court decided to throw lesser charges, any charges that might stick, at Zimmerman. Give the other side a piece of meat, I guess.
Quote:
The jury in the George Zimmerman second-degree murder trial will be allowed to consider the lesser charge of manslaughter, the judge ruled Thursday.
The ruling came after the prosecution sought to include two lesser charges from the original murder in the second degree: manslaughter and felony murder in the third degree with child abuse as the underlying felony.
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013...id=msnhp&pos=1
Child abuse?
Anyway, we may get our decision today or tomorrow, and after a year, people will have likely forgotten about this tragic and unfortunate incident.
It's a terrible incident. I can't even imagine what the families have been going through on both sides. I feel compassion for all of them.
This trial has surpassed ridiculous to absurd. The prosecution can't prove their case, let's move to the jury.
Something important to understand in Florida is none of the "lesser charges" carry a lesser penalty. In Florida, state law is 10-20-Life. If you are involved in ANY crime that results in death where a firearm is used, it is automatic Life. So a lesser charge in Florida does not equal lesser penalty as far as when a firearm is involved.
http://www.jdsupra.com/legalnews/und...ife-law-24641/Quote:
The 10-20-Life law was created to deter violent repeat felons. There is now mandatory sentencing for:
- Producing a gun while committing certain felonies — 10 years
- Firing a gun while committing certain felonies — 20 years
- Shooting someone while committing certain felonies — 25 years to life
Quote:
"The decision on an appropriate sentence where the state has provided competent and substantial evidence to support a jury's verdict of aggravated assault, which they have in this case with the discharge of a firearm, has been entirely taken out of my hands."
http://jacksonville.com/news/crime/2...-judges-juries
More @ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/10-20-Life
It has only been "not proven" to people who think Trayvon deserved to dieQuote:
Originally Posted by SPIRITED
Tragic situation.Quote:
Originally Posted by rb336
I think the people who are pro-Zimmerman are the people who got politically motivated by the right wing when it became a case to attack gun laws and gun rights. All the talking heads on the radio got the base riled up about issues that really had nothing to do with the incident.
Another angle is the image of white on black crime some media personalities and the left wing painted after the incident, but Zimmerman is no more white than Barack Obama, both are half white and half minority. You don't see people going around calling Barack Obama a white man. Why should they call Zimmerman a white man? He's Hispanic American.
This trial is a circus, completely politically motivated, a political football held by both sides. If anyone is watching the trial, they can see quite clearly that this is NOT the white on black hate crime some race groups were hoping for. What they wanted to see was a white guy named Zimmerman, [[ I think Reverend Jessie and Reverend Al herd the name Zimmerman and rushed in to Sanford, FL hoping he would be a white man of Jewish or German descent ) who killed an unarmed African American teen as a racial hate crime with no motivation other than skin color and racial profiling, and that's not the cut and dry case of what happened here.
We have a Hispanic American and an African American who got in a fight that ended tragically. Mistakes on both sides. Results that were horrible and can never be made right. We can't bring Treyvon back and we can't go back and change Zimmerman's mind about pursuing him.
I wouldn't want to be Treyvon with Zimmerman following me. And I wouldn't want to be Zimmerman following Treyvon.
It's in the jury's hands.
And if Zimmerman walks, I would not be surprised if the Feds step in and charge him with something on the Federal level.
I don't know what we can learn from all of this. I know after seeing all this, I would NEVER volunteer to be a Community Watchman. Heck no, it's not worth the legal risk. Anytime you find anyone suspicious, and call the cops, you are as much on the hot seat as the person you've spotted. We also found that the court system can change charges on the fly right in the middle of the case. Pretty much the court system can do whatever they want anytime they want to. That can play very bad against anyone that is actually innocent.
I don't know if any of you have ever been arrested or convicted of a crime, ever, but if you have you will know that you are treated as less than dirt by the law enforcement. There's no way to describe it. You are beneath trash.
The police treat you like you're guilty, they don't care if you did what you were accused of or not. You have watched TV and movies and have heard over and over "innocent before proven guilty", well that's TV and movies, not real life. It's an uphill battle. You're fighting a system that's far more powerful than any citizen. Your rights are limited. They say anything that you say or do can be held against you. They don't say it can be used for your defense. They say it can be held AGAINST you. I'm not talking specifically toward the case of Zimmerman here, I'm talking in general.
Try to keep your nose clean, try to keep on the good side of the law. The bad side is no where you want to be. Prison is hell, Jail is hell, and your freedom, as limited as it has become in recent years, is a blessing to be cherished every single day. When you wake up and see your loved ones, when you visit mom or dad or your children come to visit if you are older, these are gifts that should never be taken for granted.
America has more people in prison than any other country on the planet. What does that tell you? Stay clean. Appreciate your freedom. Be very careful who you associate with, who you call a friend, and how you interact with people in the public.
It's a very very dangerous world out there.
Looks like the jury will consider a lesser charge of manslaughter. Unfortunately if Zimmerman is convicted of anything this is probably what it will be. I doubt he will be convicted on second degree murder. People aren't going to be happy but I think that's how it will turn out
Anytime you find anyone suspicious, and call the cops, you are as much on the hot seat as the person you've spotted.
This is not true. I've done Mobile Watch, and the training is quite specific. There are two volunteers per vehicle. You stay in your vehicle, report the person or incident, and stay as much out of sight as possible. You do NOT carry a loaded and cocked gun. You do NOT get out of your vehicle. You stay in contact with the dispatcher. The trouble with Zimmerman is, he was NOT a trained Mobile Watch volunteer, he was just out there on his own, he was not reporting to a Mobile Watch dispatcher, he was carrying a loaded and cocked gun, and he got out of his car, followed and confronted the person he was reporting, all violations of Mobile Watch procedures.
This is a tragedy. I am not on the jury and all I can hope for is that everyone involved does receive the proper justice. I cannot say what that should be however.
I also hope that, no matter the outcome, that people do not go crazy. Based upon history I am a bit weary that people may indeed act irrational but I hope I am wrong.
If you are one who plans to "riot" if the verdict does not go "your way", remember the people you lash out against are most likely innocents and also, a lot of people out there today are armed and willing to defend their families and others from harm.
Well put, guito13
Local attorney Neil Rockind was on Let It Rip the other night discussing this case. What he said is spot on. You have to take the emotion out of this and look at only the facts and the law. He said if you do this, Zimmerman is not guilty. I agree with this but I don't have to like it. Zimmerman is a jerk and did a lot of wrong things, unfortunately none of them are illegal. I don't think a jury of all women, many of whom are mothers, will let him walk and will probably go with the lesser charge of manslaughter. Whatever the decision is, I too hope nobody is injured or killed in the aftermath.
Rockind is a criminal defense atty. Sorry, I don't buy it being legal to shoot someone AFTER stalking them. 1st degree homicide, no. Second degree, yes. Manslaughter, yes. Sorry, but any rational mind can see that claiming self defense against someone who clearly WAS defending himself from a stalker, doesn't wash. The difference between second degree and manslaughter is the gunpowder evidence, which I haven't heard
I'm thinking manslaughter or a hung juryQuote:
Originally Posted by rb336
There is no law against following someone on a public street/sidewalk. No evidence that Zimmerman attacked him, quite the contrary, the prosecution conceded that Martin was on top of Zimmerman. Again, take the emotion out of it, follow the facts and the law. Like I said, I don't like it either.Quote:
Originally Posted by rb336
Not guilty.
Never should have gone to court to begin with.
I have to agree with that.Quote:
Originally Posted by rb336
When I made this post the thing I failed to say was that my friend is a judge. He certainly nailed it.Quote:
Originally Posted by firstandten
I know where your lawyer friend was coming from firtsandten. I remember over a year ago thinking will a Jurist warm to this guy with the bald head and the "dead rat" under his nose? First impressions are so critical to achieve ultimate success. [[I know this as a baldy with a "dead rat" myself). But I'm still surprised that Zimmerman was acquitted; which probably was the result of inadequacies in the law.