Hi all
found a great website, wilth some old Purple Gang documents :)
http://vault.fbi.gov/Purple%20Gang%2...ouse%20Gang%29
I am lame so you will probably have to copy and paste the link
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Hi all
found a great website, wilth some old Purple Gang documents :)
http://vault.fbi.gov/Purple%20Gang%2...ouse%20Gang%29
I am lame so you will probably have to copy and paste the link
Fascinating! These are really cool old articles
I hear they made a great rhythm section.
Pretty funny, Jimbo.
Thanks for sharing DRG!
Interesting to see some addresses which were either homes of members, or places where shit went down back then. Here's one where an alleged Purple Gang member lived for a while: 20244 Keating St.
http://maps.google.com/maps?oe=utf-8...ed=0CBgQ8gEwAA
Just curious. As these were real gangsters back in the day why do so many in Detroit then hate the playas and gangsta's of today?
I read through the documents, I just wish that the redacted portions were made available. It would be so much more informative, IMHO.
Using that FBI vault website, it was also interesting to read all the other stuff on there. They have files on Carl Sandburg, John Lennon, etc. As well as documents from the McCarthy era.
A search for "Detroit" reveals a ton of investigations into Malcom X, as well as hundreds of other people and events.
I am glad guys liked it :) It is my new favorite website, at least this week ha ha. They have some "unexplained phenomena" that is also cool to read [[UFO's, ESP experiments)
j to the jeremy, I am glad its not just me who looks at the old addresses... I was quite amazed that almost all of the available addresses I found in the documents were still viable residences. I bet some of those houses have hidden surprises.
My great grandparents rented a house on 12th street in the 40's. Shortly after they moved in my great grandfather realized that the basement just didnt look right, so he started snooping and found a false wall.. behind that wall was a room that had old bottles and pallets and stuff, just as he was about to close it back up, the doorbell rang upstairs and that tripped a bell in that room too. From this evidence we figure that basement was a holding area for booze and or other things during the prohibition era
My dad told me about life in Purple Gang Detroit... about the assassination of Jerry Buckley. He left me with the impression that the Purple Gang was hated as much as today’s gangsta’s.Quote:
Originally Posted by GOAT
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSXJP_WFNp4
The Notorious Purple Gang. Detroit's most viscious crew of K***ers.
Quote:
This is the story of the infamous Purple gang. The Loose organization of gangster who ruled Detroit with a bloody fist during prohibition.
Thanks.:)Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimaz
And to think, people were so dismissive and judgemental about the Black Panthers, Blackstone Rangers, and Young Boys Inc. These guys were just as bad, if not worse.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimaz
Yea I do not know,take away the radical aspect of the Black Panthers and they were an admiration to their community,not to mention they were actually the first group that was allowed to openly carry long guns to protests and marches,and as they walked about patrolling the community.
The rest,African Americans in a majority African American city’s played a large role is destroying their own communities and brothers and sisters,mothers and fathers ,for generations to come.
At least the Purple gang was an equal opportunity for exploiting.
They made money bring the enforcement arm for the Union,pay your dues and join or die and because they got into the game because Detroit was already in a prohibition starting in 1917,so they already had the infrastructure in place when prohibition kicked in every where else.
75% of the liquor entering the U.S. came through Detroit from Windsor,so the brutality came from protecting that territory,thier downfalm came about like everybody else’s,greed.
They played around in Florida but respected that they had to kick up to Tampa but yet when it came to their own turf - it was a bit one sided.
They could have sat back and did nothing but collect a cut from all the others transactions.
It was easy for the Italians to come in afterwards and pick up the pieces,I guess he was just “Lucky “ in his timing or maybe not.
Most of those killed were other mob guys trying to infringe on territory,they had to send a message.
Different times now,murder carries a life sentence and lots of rats,so now they just put people on the shelf,has not been a mob hit in over 10 years it draws to much attention.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_BullshitQuote:
Originally Posted by Richard
https://thedudesthreads.com/collecti...ard-cotton-tee
^ how to show people how ignorant you are without telling them.
You could have spent the same amount of time actually researching.
The gang branched out into the union enforcement business in the professional laundry dispute known as the Cleaners and Dyers War. People were beaten and killed, and bombs were exploded to enforce union rules. The coffers of the gang swelled.
https://thecrimewire.com/institution...ts-Purple-Gang
[QUOTE=Richard;641222]The coffers of the gang swelled./QUOTE]
I see how you could mistake the Wholesale Cleaners and Dyers Association for a labor union. But it was a cartel. Cartel business owners paid dues to the Purple Gang, and cleaners who tried to remain independent were beaten, murdered, bombed, put out of business, etc. It wasn't a labor union AFAIK.
If I'm wrong, you can suck my Richard. :cool:
PS. Harry Rosman [1891–1958] was president and owner of Famous Cleaners & Dyers in Detroit, Michigan. He gained public notoriety for being the key witness testifying against the Purple Gang in a trial that lasted from 1928 to 1929. The prosecution alleged extortion activities against Detroit area businesses during the sometime violent showdown known as the Cleaners & Dyers Wars. Rosman testified that the Purple Gang asked for $1000 per week from his and other area cleaners & dyers' businesses for their "protection" against violence.
Peter Licavoli was one of the leaders of the Purple Gang.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Licavoli
Peter's son, Teddy Licavoli, had a band in the Detroit area during the '60s. the Human Beings. They released a few records, and this one was a small hit in Detroit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-M0CszyGLQ
[QUOTE=Henry Whalley;641226]In the 1920s, the Purple Gang was known for their instigation of the “Cleaners and Dyers War,” a dispute between the cleaning industry and its union. The Wholesale Cleaners and Dyers Association was formed by Abe Burnstein and the Detroit Federation of Labor. Membership was coerced by Purple Gang members, who often used violent means of persuasion. In 1928, 13 members of the Purple Gang were tried for extortion for their role in the war, but all were acquitted.Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard
https://detroithistorical.org/learn/...%20of%20Labor.
what part are you confused on where I posted join the Union or die ?
It clearly reads cleaning industry and it’s Union.
You gunna ask DHS to clarify it for you ?
As for the other part,maybe you can get Fain to help you with that sense you seem to have a man crush on him.
[QUOTE=Richard;641230]In the trial 1928-29, the prosecution characterized the WCDA as a “price-fixing consortium” wherein each business paid $1,000 dues per month to the Purple Gang. The fees weren't union dues collected from workers. IIRC under Dave Beck, the Teamsters also ran some dry-cleaning extortion rackets that resulted in one union thug being burned to a crisp in a bombing gone wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry Whalley
P.S. Sadly, you lack basic reading comprehension skills, and the Detroit Historical Society could use some writing lessons.
P.P.S. The U.S. Justice Department did this country a great service by cleaning-up the Teamsters and UAW. I prefer clean unions that represent labor interests.
Dry Times: Looking Back 100 Years After Prohibition - Hour Detroit Magazine
Lol :rolleyes: Got it a local historical society has no clue about local history,I am sure you will take the appropriate steps and inform them how to rewrite history more to your liking.
I prefer winning the lottery,which the odds are about the same as finding a historically non corrupt union that represents labor interests over their own.
Agreed, I can write more clearly than the amateurs at the Detroit Historical Society. But since you have zero reading comprehension skills, please watch this video circa minute 16-17. It's clear that the union was a cartel rather than a labor union.Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard
https://youtu.be/HSXJP_WFNp4
Also, read page 8 of this pdf, though I don't expect you to comprehend it:
ResearchGate:rolleyes:
Seeing an opportunity to bring organized crime to Detroit, Francis X. Martel of the Detroit Federation of Labor asked Chicagoan Ben Abrams to establish a cleaner’s organization that could be used as a front for the Purple Gang. Abrams founded the Wholesale Cleaners and Dyers Association, which pledged to stabilize the market by controlling prices and prevent tailors from switching cleaning companies without cause. Before returning to Chicago, Abrams named Charles Jacoby Jr. as the president of the new association. Jacoby was the brother-in-law of Abe Burnstein, who with his brothers formed the core of the Purple Gang.
https://detroithistorical.org/learn/...-and-dyers-war
Its not my reading comprehension,you are confusing two different methods of exploiting companies and workers.
They made money on setting up a co-op of sorts where you can price fix and force the companies to join in order to control.
But you cannot do that with out leverage,they tried using fear as a leverage,they would not be calling themselves the Detroit Federation Of Labor or ask Ben Abrams to establish an organization.
To prevent tailors from switching companies without cause - you can call it what you like but they formed a union and was using the labor force as leverage instead of violence because they wanted to have the credibility to use it as a front.
They would not had to have done none of that,they could have just forced the business to pay protection money.
It was no different the how the mob was tied to the unions for the next 90 years and could possibly be the same as it is today.
They would not have just been exploiting the businesses,they would have formed the union so they could also exploit the workers,why would they leave money on the table and why would they have had to ask the Chicago outfit to show them how to do it,maybe because they were already doing it in Chicago.
The purple gang was not mobsters,they started out as thieves robbing bootleggers as they landed back on shore from Canada and candy stores,at best they were a bunch of thugs that was in the right place in time and had to ask Chicago and the Italians how to be a mobster,but even at that they were careless and reckless which is what brought them down.
It does not take a genius to walk into a store and say pay me $50 every week or I will blow your store up.
But that is why they call them a gang,no different then the bloods or crips,just on a smaller scale.
You keep calling them a cartel,they were not a cartel.
Years ago we formed a “cartel” in the auto salvage business,we all put money in the pot and bought up salvage vehicles and prevented the competition from buying,because we could pay more.
Nobody was forced to join and we did not threaten anybody,did not need to.
That method has never been illegal,you can argue it is immoral,but to this day it is common practice to buy up all the competition in order to gain market share and control prices.
Standard oil did it back them,The Chinese do it today.
So what they were doing already in forming the cartel was not illegal in it self,it was the methods that they used,but in order to use it as a front,they could not be blowing things up,so they asked Chicago to show them how to use the labor force as in a union to force the companies to pay.
So they were able to double dip,forcing companies to pay to join the cartel and forcing the union members to pay dues,it was legal and could be used as a front.
it’s not reading comprehension,you just do not understand how it works and the only thing you have is the reading part which tells you what happened but not the how and why.
That’s book smarts without the ability to apply it in real life.
Short of that,maybe take the time to read the files in their entirety that was posted at the beginning.
But that was probably another TLDR for you,you need pictures and things that are small words and just a couple to comprehend without being overwhelmed.
Cartel - WikipediaQuote:
Originally Posted by Richard
P.S. You're so dense, I'm done discussing this with you except to note that the Detroit Federation of Labor was a labor federation while the Wholesale Cleaners and Dyers Association was a compulsory cartel. Previously linked documents and videos identify a dozen participating businesses.
God, you're dumb as a stump. Darwin suggests that stupid people often don't survive to pass their genes down in adulthood. Please for the good of the species neuter yourself.
On the Origin of Species By Means of Natural Selection by Charles Darwin | Project Gutenberg
Cartel is a group of companies joined to price fix, etc
Union is a group of employees that group together to protect themselves against the company.
Fairly simple.
And yes, there is a similarity there but the difference is what matters. The latter is to right an imbalance of power and the former is exacerbate an imbalance of power.Quote:
Originally Posted by jcole
Yes, it is just that simple.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry Whalley
Quote:
jcole / Cartel is a group of companies joined to price fix, etc
Union is a group of employees that group together to protect themselves against the company.
Fairly simple.
That’s right. There are anti-collusion laws directed to break up monopolies, trusts and cartels. They have been on the books for a long time in the US. These are all the results of colluding or aggressive business entities, or criminal entities. To liken them to Labour Unions is preposterous but what do you expect from Dick? Labour unions are their own animal, not defending all that they are, but Richard’s convoluted post equates them all in his inimitable bubba fashion.
Yes, simple answers for simple minds.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Honky Tonk
I’m glad you got something out of it.
You must lead a boring life. Sitting on a forum, of a foreign country, all day posting grade school responses, eh?
^ Hah! In the meantime a faction of the FBI has made a stop by Diddy's [Sean Combs]. Busy lately they are....
Thank you for taking time out of your busy schedule to qualify my post.Quote:
Originally Posted by Honky Tonk
I can only imagine how exciting your life is. Tell me more.
you clearly proved Darwin wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry Whalley
You keep fixating on the business side of it with the cleaners.
They were looking for a way to use them as a front to legitimize money,you do not create a front and draw attention to your self by terrorizing the businesses.
Which is why they brought in Chicago and created the labor union,so they could use the workers as leverage,do this or they will strike.
I stand by my original post where the workers were forced under threats to join,because who would offer to join and pay monthly dues if they did not have to,it was not an option.
The mob used the unions to extort businesses ever since,not in workers rights but to increase contracts during construction,collecting a wage for no show jobs,buying houses and cars and never paying the loan even health insurance.
You went down a narrow path without the ability to zoom out and look at the bigger picture and that was your story and you were sticking to it,and everybody else is stupid.
The cleaner wars was them being thugs and reckless as a gang,the call to Chicago was them attempting to transform from a bunch of thugs into a mafia that could show income through the use of legitimate businesses so they could justify income.
It was a pivotal time for them,they could have matured but they kept acting like a bunch of reckless thugs and witnesses came forward and the speculation was that the competition helped set them up to law enforcement because they were out of control and needed to be out of the picture.
That’s why when Lucky came in all he had to do was pick up the pieces.
When it comes to the mob, Detroits mob existed because they ran a tight ship and did not run around with a neon sing saying here I am and draw attention.
Old school,the other NY families got stupid and chose the limelight where they ended up dying in prison.
The purple gangs downfall was their claim to fame,brutality,they did not need to be like that when 75% of the liquor was coming through Detroit,they could have been more powerful then Al Capone.
We see that even today,a thug is a thug it’s the only thing they know and even if they put a suit on or make it in society they just cannot leave that thug life behind.
Speaking of thugs in suits, DJT fits that description to a T. [[no pun intended)
The monied in WPB would agree with you because he was the first one that allowed,African Americans,Women and homosexuals to join his club where before they were not welcome across the bridge unless they were cleaning your house,cutting the grass or serving them meals.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cincinnati_Kid
Maybe pay a little less attention to the suit and more to what really matters in people,clearly nobody is perfect in every way.
But to make it more on topic people claimed he had mob ties,which is kinda funny because as a NYC developer in the real estate development arena if you did not deal with the mob you were not in business in NYC.
I had a friend from Chicago,started an ice cream truck route,expanded it to 6 trucks then after one got blown up it was time to leave.
When you look at places like Miami,Toranto,Quebec,Montreal etc they are cities that most likely would not exist today as they are had not the mob used them to launder billions.
Thats the history of Detroit when it came to gangs and thugs,they made millions but very few actually reinvested back into the community as a way of long term survival. They just left a wake of destruction behind and are still admired today.
Agreed, and decent law-abiding citizens feared and reviled the Purple Gang back then just as decent people today revile Maralago Mussolini.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cincinnati_Kid
I remember my dad telling me about the Purple Gang. Many cops and politicians were paid to overlook extortion, and didn't care unless there were drive-by shootings and fire-bombings. My dad's descriptions were decidedly unromantic.
You can spin it any way you want Richard. DJT is a corporate thug, which is the worst kind. You speak of all the good things he's done for minorities which is bogus. Isn't DJT the same guy that would not let AfAmericans and other people of color rent apartments at his properties? I believe he got sued for that. He's gotten away with more nefarious misdeeds then anyone who's ever held the highest office in the land. He should be in jail for Jan 6th alone. Think of all the negativity and public out cry if Obama did half of these things. They would probably re-inact Jan 6th to have him removed from office.Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cincinnati_Kid
I did not post bogus claims,easy enough to say somebody does but it’s not based on what on says therefore it is or feelings.
He was always a dem so it stands to reason he had wanton ways in the past and a rules for them and not me stance.
He does not effect my life not sure why others are so obsessed over him that they spend 24/7 keeping him relevant.
Obama let Putin walk into Crimea which laid the seeds for putting us with the odds of being in a world war worse then the Cold War.
Clinton slammed tariffs on Haitian rice while flooding them with cheap Arkansas rice and destroyed their economy.
There has not been a president in this country that has not done good along with the not so good job.
Listen to what you wrote - If Obama had done X there would have been an outcry,that’s the beauty of the constitution it gives every citizen the right to question the government and in protest if you want to base it on feelings or what you think.
I feel and think Haitians should sue the U.S. for the damages incurred by their nefarious actions,it is about making presidents accountable correct ?
What corporation does not operate as a thug? They always have,it’s called business and most like to pass judgment when it comes to corporations when they have little to zero business experience or even a sliver of understanding on how they operate.
But some are on a burn the bridge campaign without understanding cause and effect.
Like the current thing with charging somebody for overvaluation of property based on property appraisers valuations and not market values.
That just opened a back door for overzealous government to have a file card on every person in the country that has ever sold a house for more than the local property appraiser value. Or applied for a mortgage that was over the property appraisers value.
That puts over 3/4 of the homeowners in the country subject to criminal charges,or maybe it was not about trump at all,maybe it was more about putting that back door in so in the future it makes it easy to take everybody’s house for even distribution under the collective.