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The Detroit City Council is thinking about laying off up to 163 bus drivers and 60 mechanics. This is due to financial crunch from the city treasury if Bing's 3 year deal does not go through its unions before April 1st.
The proposed D-DOT bus cuts includes:
1. Eilminate weekend bus services.
2. Increase wait times for all D-DOT bus routes.
More doom and gloom in Detroit. We're a laughing stock to entire Untied States of America.
SMART ain't much better. And meanwhile, we're going to add a THIRD bus system on top of this. OK, whatever.Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny
The third system is what should have been in place all along. And they'll tell you that the third system isn't meant to replace the others, but even if it doesn't right away, in the longterm the new system will take over the responsibilities of the other two, and for the better.
The buses should be one of the last things cut in Detroit. And even if you cut the buses you need to keep weekend service. The people who ride the buses mostly work retail and weird hours, so if there's no weekend buses you can expect Detroit's unemployment rate to shoot up.
The money saved by cutting the buses is probably less than the money lost through income taxes and other costs associated with unemployment.
Actually, the third system isn't what should have been in place all along. It's conceived poorly as a transit system, but plays well politically because every county gets something, even though the system will not take one car off Hall Road.
I wish I could really, honestly root for a regional transit authority, except that the people who would run such an authority have very little understanding of transit. Count me ambivalent.
But I agree, buses should not be cut. In fact, we should be moving ahead with a light rail system on Woodward. We should be INVESTING in transit, not cutting it.
How do they expect this to go over? They just tried the same damn thing like 7 or 8 months ago. I went to one of the public hearings at Northwest Activities Center, and that huge auditorium was jammed full of people with a long line of angry speakers. There is absolutely no fat left in DDOT service anymore, what's already out there is completely inadequate for the ridership it gets, and any further talk of drastic cuts is straight-up freaking insane. Every time they propose this, half the city comes out and tells them what a terrible idea it is, they back off, and then they come back a little while later with basically the same list of cuts. Apparently they don't have very long memories.
In the meantime here's 2 million more to argue some more about all the things that won't be done.
http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...ons-for-all-of
,,,Quote:
Originally Posted by 401don
This situation goes from backwards to batshit.
If light rail has already been sabotaged [[including Ray Lahood) why is money still being spent?
Oh yeah it seems DDOT is threatened at least 3 times a year. The populace keeps telling you they aren't quite as stupid as you make them out to be, when will the message stick?
More D-DOT cuts??I......I just don't know what to say.:confused::mad::mad: If DDOT's cut anymore it may as welll cease to exist! It's bad enough SMART's all but eliminated serivce in&out of the city of Detroit[[which in my opinion further adds to DDOT's overload)now more proposed cuts are being discussed????WTH's wrong with the picture here???
I took a bus into Detroit today. An empty DDOT Woodward pulled up&was full house capacity within less than a minute.We left the fairgrounds at standing room only capacity!!By the time the coach reached Woodward&Manchester the driver had to pass up lines&lines of potential passangers at various stops along Woodward. He wasn't able to squeeze anymore passengers on until we neared Woodward&Clairmont[[sp?). The ride back to the fairgrounds was no better. I arrived at Warren&Woodward at 1:35pm.While sitting in the bus shelter,along with almost 10 other people,FOUR Southbound Woodward coaches passed by. North bound #53 pulls approaches&passes us by!!While I understand why the coach had to pass us,it was filled to CAPACITY,I couldn't help be p&ssed!
I thank heaven I'm not on council nor in a position of authority in the city as I'm not sure what the answer is to this situation. I do however know more cuts to DDOT service isn't the answer. Cutting service more is,in my opinion,is as a@# backwards as it gets. If council wants to save more money&cut more they perhaps should start with their own darn salaries!! Maybe they should do severe cuts to their,and their aides,salaries/budgets. Cutting DDOT any further is adding extreme insult to the already extremely injured!
This makes no damn sense!
Wait a minute... where did the original information on this thread come from? Danny did not quote any article or source, and the State Treasurer's committee has not released its findings [[although, henceforth, they must meet in the open).
I am not aware that any decision has been made by anyone in authority as to DDOT operations. If anyone can provide such information, please do. Otherwise we are arguing about what-ifs. Fun but not useful.
Goodness! Hold on to your car - even a piece of a car! Mechanic shops have got to be doing well as people try to retain some form of transpo!
If this were to pass, then there would be no more city buses within Detroit city limits on weekends! That's because SMART discontinued all service within Detroit outside peak times!
Good point. I overlooked that fact. I guess my anger over my experience with DDOT yesterday prevented me from noticing a source had not been listed.Quote:
Originally Posted by professorscott
Yeah, I came off the spool too a bit.Quote:
Originally Posted by trotwood
Go on any D-DOT bus. Look the ghetto flyer from the side ceiling and you see the info. If you don't go into the ghettoes of Detroit, you will miss something wild and exciting.Quote:
Originally Posted by professorscott
It's not the D-DOT's main site yet. I have got my source by reading the ghetto flyer while I was on the D-DOT bus. I just talk with the D-DOT bus driver just last week to prove its true. The D-DOT driver said "Yes" However D-DOT is proposing to the Detroit City Council to only cut 53 bus drivers and lay-off fewer mechanics. Stay Tuned! Sometimes the A.T.U. can make their own news about D-DOT and SMART bus service anytime they want before it goes to the Board of Directors.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zacha341
Remember the D-DOT Green Flu Sick out! It could happen again. So please respect your bus drivers and the information.
at least we dont have to worry about text messages anymore ROTFLMAO
Please contact your reps in Lansing. There are many transportation bills going through right now. Give them your support.
Any transportation bill from Lansing is going to be a road and rubber bill. Tell your representatives to get serious about transit and rethink their "let them ride buses" campaign. Demand light rail for Detroit.
On the subject of DDOT&cuts,can someone tell if what I just heard is true or not.
While watching the local evening news I see a rep from Rider's United[[I believe that was organization reporter called)who says DDOT will eliminate night&weekend service starting in early March.
Is this true ???
I have seen a draft of the March 3 service changes. [[Note: it is a DRAFT.)
It is not nearly as disastrous as what is predicted here. It does include the usual crappy reductions in already thin service and, without any fanfare, the elimination of overnight [[but not nighttime) service. Basically no service between about 12:30 a.m. and 5 a.m.
The only route elimination on the DRAFT I saw was the Imperial. The east-side portion of the Vernor route is being eliminated.
So it is another bummer of a document, one of the cuts in DDOT's death by a thousand cuts. But it is not per se a catastrophe. Under the circumstances, frankly, I was expecting worse.
Professor,I appreciate the information. No service from 12:30-5:00am isn't ideal but given economic times being as they are I understand.I don't like but certainly understand. Now what have you heard[[what do you know)regarding the elimination of weekend service?
I thank you again for the information&your time:)
The draft I saw had nothing about eliminating weekend service. I don't believe that is happening at the moment.
My previous comment stands. Overnight service is not dispensable, and I don't know how many times they expect us to tell them this.Quote:
Originally Posted by professorscott
Funny thing is a recent source for Fox 2 News investigation group said that there are some new D-DOT busses in the Coolidge Terminal but haven't been used yet.
http://www.michiganradio.org/post/mo...led-bus-system
"1000 city workers will be laid off next week—including 78 bus drivers and 25 mechanics, according to Naomi Patton, a spokeswoman for Detroit Mayor Dave Bing."
"Patton says Bing will reveal more details about changes to the system later this week. In the meantime, a public hearing is scheduled for February 24th—as the layoffs are going into effect."
This the story that Danny was talking about regarding the brand new buses that aren't on the streets yet.
http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/dpp/news...op-20120214-ms
Show your support for transit and come to Lansing on February 23rd to talk to your legislators. For more information or to find a ride, go to: http://trans4m.org/transitday.asp. If you can't come, please write your legislators.
From that article:Quote:
Originally Posted by lukabottle
Envisurage, in turn, is apparently a vehicle [[no pun intended) for this guy.Quote:
The city recently turned over management of its transportation department to a private contractor, Parsons Brinckerhoff, who sub-contracted with another company, Envisurage.
That article doesn't sound too bad.
"At the moment" worries me. Thanks again Professor!
So, what is Bing's plan, ultimately? Apparently, they've already privatized operations, and that still obviously can only do so much. Are they trying to unwind this thing and sell it off in pieces? What's the end game, here? Run a few buses up the spokes and call it a day? Who picks up all of the lost ridership? Taxi services that'll gouge those with no other option even more than they already are?
In a city where in 2000, a full third of city residents didn't even own a car [[can you even imagine what it is now?), what kind of hope at any economic and educational development will you have when tens-of-thousands of people are trapped like rats in a city with few job opportunities and even fewer ways to reach those opportunities?
I just don't get it. Maybe, in other cities, cut service would be an option. As far as I'm concerned, mass transit is up there with police and fire in a city like Detroit. You can't keep cutting service and then wonder why crime and poverty and low school scores remain stubbornly high. I've already seen the administration come out with the talking point that over-night service only consitutes a tiny part of ridership, but this is cumulative. Everyone knows already shitty service is about to get shittier if that is even possible.
It's nights, now, and in a few months they'll be back to kill week-end serivce and then before you know it'll, we'll have a dozen routes in the central city of a region of over 4 million people where ridership isn't cut for lack of demand, but because the region doesn't want to pay for economic development on the front-end.
In a city as poor as Detroit, you either take the pain and pay for the social costs up front, or you pay out the @ss on the back-end. It's just that simple.
...because overnight service is already so thin, not because nobody is riding the buses that are left. I actually ride those buses, and Dave Bing doesn't. He doesn't know what he's talking about. He's had it in for overnight service since the day he took office, and he refuses to believe us that it's important.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dexlin
Does anyone know when they will actually release a new schedule so that bus riders can prepare for any changes? If they are changing the schedules beginning this month, why haven't they told us anything concrete yet? I am doing all that I can to move closer to work and school, but with such short notice I don't know if I will be able to move soon enough. I am really concerned about getting to and from work/school before I get moved.
If they are making reductions to day time service AT ALL it will be really bad because buses that should come every 20 minutes or so have already been taking 1 hour or longer for the past few weeks.
Epiphany,
The schedule changes take effect March 3, I believe. Daytime service is being reduced on certain lines only. I don't remember the details or I'd share.
As far as the printed schedules, who cares what the printed schedules say? All of us riders know they are fiction anyhow. That, to me, is the bigger problem. If the bus is only going to come every half hour, fine, we can work our schedules around that, but at least let the damned thing come when it's supposed to!
Professor Scott
LOL. I agree. I was just hoping that a schedule would give me a better idea about which lines are being cut and by how much. But, nothing frustrates me more than leaving to catch a bus at a certain time that is never coming. If they ran every hour or even every two hours and CAME ON TIME, it wouldn't be such a big deal because I could plan to be there on time and avoid waiting in the cold. But, showing up early to catch a bus that never arrives is just terrible. No one likes standing in the rain or snow [[without a shelter, of course) for such extended periods of time.
http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...ng-bus-service
Among the service adjustments to be discussed at the hearings are:
Discontinue bus service from 1-4 a.m.
Route 11/Clairmount weekend service only will be discontinued.
Route 46/Southfield Sunday service will be discontinued.
Eliminate Route 78/Imperial Express.
Route 49/Vernor service will end at the Rosa Parks Terminal in downtown Detroit.
To learn more
Public hearings:
DDOT has scheduled public hearings on Feb. 24 at two locations: Northwest Activities Center, 18100 Meyers from 11 a.m. to 1 p.m. and from 6-8 p.m.; and Wayne County Community College [[at Interstate 94), 5901 Conner, from 11 a.m. until 1 p.m. and 6-8 p.m.
A service document detailing all changes and route alternatives can be obtained from the following locations on or after Friday:
DDOT main office, strategic planning/scheduling, 1301 E. Warren
Detroit Public libraries
Community access centers
Online at www.ridedetroittransit.com.
I called the mayor's office to protest this. They first challenged me about which routes I rode and when. Then they told me that not all 24-hour service would be cut, which contradicts all the media reports [[which are citing the mayor's office), so either the people Bing has answering his phones are egregiously misinformed or blatantly lying to constituents. I asked which routes would still be 24-hour, and the person insisted that she didn't have time to read me the entire list, which, there are currently 8 24-hour routes, that list should take about three seconds to read. Then she told me I'd fallen victim to the drivers' scare tactics, and abruptly transferred me to 933-1300. Yay for accountable elected officials!
This is just........I'm almost at a loss for words here.Scratch that!I'm not out of words.I've plenty popping into my head but don't want to type that kind of language on the net nor do I want to say something about someone that might come back to bite me later.
I just can't wrap my mind around why,whenever there are talk of cuts,public transportation is always[[almost)first on the list?Why are those in positions of power&authority so dead set on d&mning those without private vehicles [[or access to)? Why are those who are already struggling to make it day by day always being told "make it the best way you can or piss you!" ?
These,of course,are just rhetorical questions/rantings of one bewildered person.
Sadly SMDH@ the absurdity of it all!:confused:
The residents are held under seize in there own neighborhoods due to the cut of basic service by moronic city leaders. You can't get to you job. You don't have a decent grocery store nearby. Don't have a car to drive to one. You can't get an EMS if you or your loved one gets hurt. Police would not come on time if you become a victim of crime.Your house will burn down for the firefighters might show up late. What the hell are you paying taxes for? Charles Pugh to give his aide a $6000 raise?
It's unfortunate that the person at the mayor's office either misled you, lied to you, or is totally ignorant of the facts. "ALL" 24-hour service is scheduled to be discontinued effective March 3rd. The work assignments which the drivers have to pick-on that are currently posted at the satellite terminal locations has service pulling in to the garages by 1:00AM. In addition, the detailed service reduction information being distributed by DDOT to the media also shows service being eliminated after 12:30AM, including the nine 24-hour bus routes. You would think that someone representing the mayor's office would share accurate information with the riding public who basically have no choice but to depend on the service. It's evident from her attitude that she doesn't depend on the bus to get around.Quote:
Originally Posted by antongast
Here's a link to a PDF file distributed by DDOT showing detailed service reductions
http://download.gannett.edgesuite.net/detnews/2012/pdf/0216ddot2.pdf
This is even better!
Just recently posted on the official DDOT website, their service change brochure in PDF format:
WEEKDAY CHANGES:
http://www.detroitmi.gov/Portals/0/d...ekday_2012.pdf
WEEKEND CHANGES:
http://www.detroitmi.gov/Portals/0/d...ekend_2012.pdf
Quote:
Originally Posted by stasu1213
ICAM with you!
Yet there are still those who bemoan the declining population &/or attribute it to anything other than the gospel truth:people need&deserve quality of life&decent city services. When that's not given the masses leave.Why in the world people in city government don't grasp that is a mystery to me.
Detroit[[actually MetroDetroit/state of Michigan)seems determined to make it as hard as possible for the residents to live here!
SMH!
Thank you very much for posting this. After giving it a thorough read through the message this sends to Detroit residents&vistitors to the city that rely on public transportation is clear. If you're a resident you'd better find your way to&from work the best way you can after the buses stop.God help you if you have a 'odd' work schedule[[eg. start after 11:30pm-12:30 am).If you're a visitor to the city without a car you'd better take in the sights&attractions the city has to offer before 8:30ish at night otherwise you're SOL&up the creek!Quote:
Originally Posted by bc_n_dtown
I understand tough financial times as well as the next but these proposed service changes are oppressive&ridiculous!!
No wonder this region's going to crap!
Detroiters Voice Concern Over Changes To Bus Service
http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/dpp/news...to-bus-service
I read this and got quite the chuckle out of this line from the article: "A spokesperson for Mayor Dave Bing said only 500 customers, on nine routes, use the buses after-hours"
Guess this means the rest of the city residents are sleeping,walking,or getting rides after hours huh?
SMDH!
This is how unimportant basic services are to the out-of-touch City leadership. Since the 1950s, Detroit has lost, as a guess, 60% of its residents. I doubt the number of people working in the City bureaucracy has gone down by 60%.
Meantime the bus service - in terms of bus-hours per weekday - has gone down at least 98%, and this next round of cuts might be pushing it close to 99%.
So the remaining 40% of the people somehow have to get by with 1% to 2% of the transportation.
more bad news. I don't see it improving any time soon.
Put mini busses on those damn lines if that was true. Bing is doing this on purpose for someone who is pulling the dummy's string is telling him to.This is the powers to be scheme to make this city a less desirable place to live for long time residents, most of them are low middle to lower class. This is Bings way of showing the Transportation Secretary that Detroit is not ready for or want any for of dependable mass transit or light rail. I would rather have Kilpatrick in office than this traitor to Detroit. I would not be surprise if he will be caught up in the Ficano scandall.Quote:
Originally Posted by trotwood
Don't even see the point of a public hearing when everything is pretty set in stone for March 3rd. Usually public hearings are more than week in advance of changes.
This is he work of Parsons Brinckerhoff [[and the consultant they subcontracted this work out to); this is running DDOT "like a business" as they say. Expect more of this. There are no transit advocates in city administration, and not even anyone that knows anything about transit.
It's pretty clear the administration views DDOT as a red-headed stepchild, a "problem", instead of viewing it for what it's viewed as in just about every othe functioning city: a basic city service. I'm sure Bing is hoping that if they stab it a few more times, DDOT will just go away. Well, mayor, you're still going to have to service its debt whether it survives or not. I realize that running Detroit has to be one of the toughest jobs in the nation, but this is not how you do it. The issue of DDOT shows rank mismanagement. But, I guess mismanagement is all right so long as a private, professional company is doing it and not public appointees.
Wow, what a way to make sure you get rid of what little choice ridership you had left; what a creative way to kill demand for a service more in need than it has been in years. You know you can only call something "creative destruction" if you actually have a plan for after you destroy the thing you are killing. Far as I can tell, the administration doesn't seem to have any plan for what to do with DDOT after they put it under.
I agree with you.This is delieberate though I can't figure what the expected/desired outcome is to be.Quote:
Originally Posted by stasu1213
Btw you have Kilpatrick in office. He's now going by the name of Dave Bing.
Imo the Bing administration is just finishing up the good work KK didn't have time to complete.
As I say I can't figure the desired outcome I have no choice but to believe someone[[or large group)is hell bent on ruining,for want of better word,the lives of the currrent citizens of Detroit. Bing's carrying out his orders beautifully!:mad:
I see it as a way of them covering their collective a%$es to avoid anyone saying "We didn't get our say" or something along those lines. The public hearing in this matter is nothing more than a way to be able to say they gave all interested a chance to voice opinions/concerned. It's a waste of everyone's time&energy[[not to say the public shouldn't go&make their voices heard).At the end of the day those listening to public opininon at the hearing will be in attendance knowing full well&good the decision has been made&there's no turning back.Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveJ
Imo it's another show of blatent disrespect for the citizens of Detroit!!
Seems to me that's the feeling towards the citizens of Detroit in general. The city has no regard for it's residents whatsoever!Quote:
Originally Posted by Dexlin
Indeed. If you don't have a car your basically trapped and a captive audience to the stores and what not that may be in your area. Not good. Especially in terms of employment options outside of Detroit....
I can't imagine the unemployment situation getting better in light of these new DDOT cuts. :[[
These cuts are beyond ridiculous. The small cuts on each route are doing more damage...longer waits and more crowded buses. The growing frustration from drivers and riders is understandable.
Instead of spreading these cuts across the board on every route, a new approach would go along way to building a reliable system:
Get rid of half the routes. Keep the 20-25 [[out of 48) busiest routes, but increase service hours and frequency. Make sure those buses are running on time.
Yes, it will mean longer walks to bus lines, but knowing those buses will be there and on time is more important than having a bus line close by. Would you rather leave 15-20 minutes early to walk a mile to a bus stop, or walk a block to a bus stop and wait for a bus that may never come?
Would you rather run someone to the bus stop a mile away, or drive them all the way to their job?
Increase dail-a-ride services for the elderly and disabled.
Two other issues also add to the inefficiency of the bus system:
Bus stops are too close together. DDOT really wasted a good opportunity to rectify that situation when they installed the new bus stop signs a couple years ago. Some stops are only a block or two apart. That may have made sense at one time, but not now.
Stop taking cash for fares!! The system needs to move to refillable swipe cards for all. Refill online or at kiosks at all current locations selling bus passes. Nothing takes more time than to load 20 passengers at a busy stop when all have to dig in their pockets for their fare.
I couldn't agree more. So many of the bus routes are LESS than a mile apart and basically take the same route a few blocks apart from each other.... and they really need to get it together when it comes to showing up on time. I get so angry when I wait over an hour for a bus and then sometimes THREE buses come at the same time that are nearly empty because the one in front is picking up all of the passengers. What a waste of money.Quote:
Originally Posted by middetres
It costs $1.50 to ride the bus in Detroit. Students, a significant percentage of the ridership pay $.75. Seniors, who comprise another very large percentage of the ridership, pay $.50. This is just unsustainable. DDOT has to raise more money at the farebox. Fares should be raised immediately.
Here are the current bus fares in 20 different large U.S. cities:
- $2.50 - Atlanta
- $2.25 - Seattle, New York, Denver, Cleveland, Minneapolis [[rush hour), Milwaukee, San Diego, Chicago and Pittburgh;
- $2.10 - Portland
- $2.00 - San Francisco, Philadelphia, Miami and St. Louis;
- $1.75 - Dallas, Memphis, Phoenix and Buffalo;
- $1.70 - Wash. D.C.
Most of these cities have student and senior discounts as well, but none are as generous as Detroit.
No bus system comes close to paying for itself at the farebox, but Detroit trails its peer cities by a wide margin in percentage of system costs paid by ridership revenues.
Base fare should get increased to $2.00. Seniors and students should pay at least $1.00. If other cities can handle these fares, so can we.
Agreed, Swingline.
If they'd do away with accepting cash, each swipe would cost $2, but be good for unlimited rides and transfers for the ensuing 2-hour period. After the initial 2 hours a 50-cent transfer would kick in and stretch it to 4 hours of riding. Beyond the 4-hour period a new $2 fare would be assessed.
Half that for students and seniors.
Simple and easy!
Nor should it.Quote:
Originally Posted by swingline
Road are wholly subsidized at 100% minus few bridges. Each day I ride to work and I don't pay one-cent for road maintenance.
Buses riders aren't wholly subsidized like people who own their own cars.
I guess my point is that, while perhaps Detroit fares might be too low based on your arguments, that the goal shouldn't be a self-funded system.
Your quote of a sentence fragment of mine misstates my point completely.Quote:
Originally Posted by 48091
Transit should always be subsidized regionally, and even statewide at a certain level. The economic development, environmental and land use benefits of transit justify a significant subsidy. An argument that I don't ride it so I shouldn't have to pay for it befits a Cro-Magnon that can't plan past the next woolly mammoth hunt.
Cool, we agree, my point exactly. Roads are wholly subsidized [[minus registration fees), while buses are only partially subsidized.Quote:
Originally Posted by swingline
Recent sources from Fox 2 News that D-DOT administrators are planning to release several new buses by the end of this month, but I doubt that.
It's time for the city to grow some balls. Instead of punishing regular folks by cutting bus service, let's right-size the cost of labor. If unions aren't on-board, privatize.
The city got some pots of funding, recovery and otherwise, from the Feds a few years back. The buses are coming in for delivery now, they're already signed sealed and delivered. There is nothing that would hinder even DDOT's ability to be put into service related to the city's financial condition... and they obvisouly will need little to no maintenance and sip fuel and oil compared to the big TMCs that are lumbering around today.Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny
I am a transit guy, but we need to be having a discussion that is rational so as not to be quickly disregarded.Quote:
Originally Posted by 48091
Your comparison is not equal... you don't DRIVE a road to work versus RIDE a bus.
In fact, the bus you ride uses those same roads, so whatever arrangement funds the roads also benefits the bus equally [[although makes a transit system less efficient when the freeways contribute to sprawl etc etc etc).
The comparison is a owning and operating a car versus riding a bus.
CAR: You have to pay for gas [[including a gas tax that goes to pay for roads and transit), maintenance, insurance, and the car when you drive to work, and pay for parking and have a place to park it where you live [[driveway, street, garage, etc). Possible subsidies here are roads, ethanol production, auto industry bailout, lending practices that promote suburban [[non-transit supportive density) growth, indirect war spending to control gas prices?
BUS: You pay a fare to ride a bus, whose operating agency has to pay for gas [[including a gas tax that goes to pay for roads and transit), maintenance, insurance, the bus, someone to operate the bus, and some other people to keep the whole system running. The agency also has to have a place to park it where it is stored [[terminal, etc). Subsidies here are Federal and State funding for capital and operating expenses of the agencies, roads, indirect war spending to control gas prices?
You can make arguments about other ways that indirect policies and etc subsidize one or the other. The point that fares could be higher merely means that you could increase fares to a level that is more on par with other systems across the country [[or even just to teh $2.00 SMART is at) to help generate SOME additional revenue to SOFTEN the deathblow of cutting the city subsidy by $10, $20, now they're saying what will be about $40 Million [[$84 to 44/year).
Glad to clear that up... proceed on.
Question...
With the announcement of Ron Freeland as CEO of DDOT -- actually, CEO of the private management company/consultancy that now oversees the management of DDOT [[Envisurage, LLC), which I guess means the elimination of the "director" post -- it was announced that DDOT was introducing 46 new "fuel-efficient" buses it had ordered quite a bit ago. Anyway, my question is whether anyone knows the exact make and model [[are they New Flyers?) of the new buses, and what if "fuel-efficient" means that they are hybrids, or simply souped-up regular diesels?
They're Gilligs, and I'm pretty sure they're conventional diesels. This video pans over one starting about 50 seconds in:Quote:
Originally Posted by Dexlin
The 46 new DDOT coaches are manufactured by GILLIG Corp. out of Hayward, CA. Over 15 have been delivered so far since the beginning of the month, but of course have to first be prep for service, with electronic fareboxes and emergency "TransitMaster" communication equipment being installed, along with state vehicle registration work being completed. The series pilot coach #1201 was delivered back in November for inspection and approval by DDOT.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dexlin
The first 42 coaches, model G27D102N4, are what Gillig calls "clean-diesel" coaches [[otherwise known as ultra-low sulphur diesel [[ULSD)), while "four" hybrid diesel-electric coaches are also to be delivered with this order.
These photos were taken of pilot coach #1201 back in December. The new deliveries differ slightly.
Attachment 12097
Attachment 12095
[[www.DetroitTransitHistory.info photos)
Coach #1210 was one of the recent coaches delivered in early February, and differs slightly from the pilot coach above. They were even delivered with protective shields for the drivers.
Attachment 12096
[[photo courtesy of DDOT operator G. Brown)
raw video from WXYZ-TV: It looks like these women weren't too happy about DDOT service changes or the service in general, and made it known at one of the public hearings held today.
http://www.wxyz.com/dpp/news/region/...-route-changes
Those two ladies wore very upset of the D-DOT bus cut situation that they spoke in load "Teddy Roosevelt-like stage voice". If the Detroit City Council and the D-DOT Board of Directors made their final decision. IT'S RECALL TIME!
Quote:
Originally Posted by bc_n_dtown
I don't believe there's anything those women said regarding the DDOT situation that I disagree with!!
What the administration is doing to the residents of Detroit[[being allowed to do without challenge by the city council)is downright cruel&criminal in my opinion. Odd thing is,as one of the women in the video points out,so many[[Bing&council)are always banging the "come to Detroit" drum yet they seem to be going out of their way to ensure just the opposite will occur.
God help Detroit&it's residents and visitors......they city officials sure as heck won't. Shame on David Bing&the nine Detroit City Council members.SHAME!!
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Thank you so much for the info, bc. Greatly appreciated. I see looking at the company's wiki page that they have two, basic transit buses: the regular low-floor and the hybrid-electric low-floor. It appears Detroit is getting some of both, though, I wonder why they aren't just going hybrid-electric. Where I live, they are trading out diesel for hybrid electric whenever they can. Sure, it costs a bit more up front, but it saves down the road because the hybride-electric requires MUCH LESS maintence, and it would seem that Detroit in particular would want to do that.Quote:
Originally Posted by bc_n_dtown
As for the public hearings, while I, myself, don't ever yell, I totally get what they are talking about regardless of how they handled themselve. I was appalled to hear that aside from the cuts, that DDOT had the nerve to change the format of the actual hearing. It's dehumanizing and insulting. When you make these kind of cuts, you're going to hear righteous indignation and you should hear it. To send them to easels to "display" their feelings on a piece of paper is about condescending and patronizing as you can get. They might as well have not even had the meeting. That's a coward's move what they did there.
Does anyone when public hearings have been scheduled for House Bill 5209 or Senate Bill 909, or have they not even made it out of committee, yet? I'm going to make sure my local reps and senators hear about, and make sure those on the respective transportation communities in each house get moving. This simply can not wait.