Baby Zyia Death on Brinker Street

I was going to post this on the Centerline Fireworks Shooting thread, but I did not want to highjack it.

There was a discussion going on there and “Rex” posted this link showing someone standing on the porch with what appears to be some type of long rifle in their hand:
http://goo.gl/maps/LpEJ

Are you guys aware of the 17 month old baby girl that was found dead in a clothes closet in her Grandmother’s home in the 18800 block of Brinker?
http://www.freep.com/article/2012063...ing-questioned

Last night on WXYZ they had a video of the inside and the outside of the home:
http://www.wxyz.com/dpp/news/region/...dmothers-house

So I compared the two - Google and WXYZ. Noticed some similarities; same cream colored brick, same tapered shape to the brick columns, same green, astro-turf glued to the porch, same wrought-iron security door, same gutter security camera and the same neighbor’s fence.

Wonder if this is the same home Zyia Turner died in?

Saw that first thing this morning when I opened the paper. It's clearly the same house. Inside the house is just as scary. She never had a chance. 25yo father has a couple other kids too. Why would you bring a child into such a life in the first place, where guns are being wielded on your front porch at passing cars and the house is unfit for human habitation? That is, of course, even with the presumption that the father is entirely innocent.

Good eye Packman41, it's the same house indeed. The Google picture certainly looks like someone is pointing a long gun at the photographer, I wouldn't be surprised if the father of little Zyia is pictured there as well.
Unfortunately, the babies of these men and women don't stand a chance growing up in an enviornment like that. I'm sure that clothes didn't fall on the child and pin her down...she was put there by someone.

I wonder if the Police are aware of the picture from Google.

Simply amazing attention to detail, you're very right.

WXYZ:
Attachment 14348

Google Street View Frame 1:
Attachment 14349

Google Street View Frame 2:
Attachment 14350

Google Street View Frame 3:
Attachment 14351

Google Street View Frame 4 [[gun actually pointed at Google vehicle):
Attachment 14352

House was a shithole inside. I wouldn't leave my kid there. No wonder they couldn't find her, they couldn't see through all the crap. No clothes hanging in the closet, they're all over the floor. Where are the sheets on the bed? Simply disgusting way to live. The poor baby never stood a chance.

That poor baby living and ultimately dieing in this dysfunctionalism. Tragic!

Umm, what IS Google paying for the camera folks to get these shots? Not enough no matter the amount! Talk about cross-hairs photo journalism!

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Originally Posted by 48091

Google Street View Frame 4 [[gun actually pointed at Google vehicle):
Attachment 14352

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20 people living there and bugs crawling all over the clothes. just awful.

Their pit bull probably had a better place to live than that. What a shame. How will this all end up? What is going to happen to these people and all the people who are living just like this? Why do they live like that? A person can be penniless and uneducated to a point, but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that keeping a home clean, free from bugs and clutter isn't that hard. Anyone who walks over trash in their yard or inside the home is just plain lazy and doesn't care. What is it that they do care about? Would a job make things different in the home? Would better education help? How about parents taking responsibility for their kids? But....I forget, it's babies raising babies, or elderly grandparents raising their kids and their kids kids. People must WANT to improve themselves. I and everyone else can't do a damn thing about this type of problem without cooperation from those who are ultimately responsible, and they will not take responsibility. It's always someone elses' fault.

sad, and infuriating.. TV reports had approximately 20 [[!) people living in the home.. if so, that is madness.. family or not, people can't just leave their children with "anybody"..

That house isn't fit for vermin. I shouldn't have watched, turned my stomach to think some innocent little kid died in that filth......accident or not.

If it WAS an accident...why not own up to it? Instead, everyone...even the grandmother...says no one in the house had anything to do with it. Somehow I have difficulty believing it. A very sad, sad situation. This poor innocent child who didn't ask to be brought into this world losing her life..it hurts my heart.

Sounds like a bonifide flop-house and there are many. Made up of people and family members of all ages... After all from the many abandoned homes in the city not all of the inhabitants left, nor are they all homeless. Thus, large numbers of folks congregate in a home or flat... varying streams of income, hustles, lifestyle, disorder, chaos, and what we saw in those news reports. No time to clean up for the cameras...

I've worked with and mentored teens who lived in these settings. It was nearly impossible to function productively or even keep clothes washed as often the water is turned off - no heat in the winter... This is the kind of setting where people come and go all times of day and night. Couches and floors are were people/ children sleep, or shall I say take turns sleeping, etc. Not a place for a child. This is beyond sad...

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Originally Posted by Hypestyles

sad, and infuriating.. TV reports had approximately 20 [[!) people living in the home.. if so, that is madness.. family or not, people can't just leave their children with "anybody"..

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I haven't read too much on this, but could the kid have just crawled in the closet and died from the heat without anyone missing her until it was too late?

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Originally Posted by Zacha341

Sounds like a bonifide flop-house and there are many. Made up of people and family members of all ages... After all from the many abandoned homes in the city not all of the inhabitants left, nor are they all homeless. Thus, large numbers of folks congregate in a home or flat... varying streams of income, hustles, lifestyle, disorder, chaos, and what we saw in those news reports. No time to clean up for the cameras...

I've worked with and mentored teens who lived in these settings. It was nearly impossible to function productively or even keep clothes washed as often the water is turned off - no heat in the winter... This is the kind of setting where people come and go all times of day and night. Couches and floors are were people/ children sleep, or shall I say take turns sleeping, etc. Not a place for a child. This is beyond sad...

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They had money to spend on security. It looks like it was a bit more than a flop house.

Attachment 14358Attachment 14359

I still wonder if the Police have been notified about these pictures from Google???

Sometimes the guns go along with the flip-and-the-flop of it all. This is edgy living; the cost of er' 'purchased' guns and barred doors is negligible in that context.

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Originally Posted by Wheels

They had money to spend on security. It looks like it was a bit more than a flop house.

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The autopsy will answer many questions. It could have been heat, but still the child was lost in the confusion of that household to a. possibly not been properly hydrated and cared for and b. not noticed missing for some time...

And c. where was the amber alert in this case???

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Originally Posted by Meddle

I haven't read too much on this, but could the kid have just crawled in the closet and died from the heat without anyone missing her until it was too late?

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Originally Posted by Zacha341

Sometimes the guns go along with the flip-and-the-flop of it all. This is edgy living; the cost of er' 'purchased' guns and barred doors is negligible in that context.

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That doesn't explain the motorized cameras at each end of the house.

Ok I was being perhaps oblique. Now I WILL BE DIRECT: DRUG Trafficking! That may explain the special 'um amenities and armaments... You know that alternate income that seems to emerge in some households?

Additionally, this home may have once been a decent dwelling, with homeowners or renters trying to protect their property and contents which evolved into what we now see. Those cameras may not even be operable.

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Originally Posted by Wheels

That doesn't explain the motorized cameras at each end of the house.

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Originally Posted by cla1945

I still wonder if the Police have been notified about these pictures from Google???

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Notified of what? That a red-blooded American patriot exercised his Constitutionally-protected right to keep and bear arms?

Ruby Ridge! Hah! I thought about that when I read that. These are strange times indeed!

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Originally Posted by antongast

Notified of what? That a red-blooded American patriot exercised his Constitutionally-protected right to keep and bear arms?

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Originally Posted by antongast

Notified of what? That a red-blooded American patriot exercised his Constitutionally-protected right to keep and bear arms?

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I most certainly don't have the right to sit on my front porch and point the barrel of a rifle at cars that pass by. If I did that in Warren the police would be beating me with their billy clubs so quickly that you'd see them on the next frame of picture from the Google car.

However, it would be pointless to alert the Detroit Police of this. They don't care. They don't have the resources to care. I don't think it has too much relevance to the investigation.

Also, at the beginning of this I forgot to mention: I feel absolutely terrible about the loss of this innocent little girl. Whether it was done intentionally or unintentionally this was criminal. Someone should have to answer for this. May her little body rest in peace; she deserved so much more.

this all shows an overwhelming level of disfunction. 20 people in a 3 or 4 bedroom house cant keep track of a toddler? Middle of the city aiming guns at random cars. Up to no good is a huge understatement.

While this is certainly the same house and there are some funny things going on there how can we be sure that the group of people pictured here are part of the same group that lost the child? The Google pictures are from 2009. Those people could have up and left.

they are probably just neighborhood watch volunteers and didn't recognize the google car with the cameras........

Thank you for bringing that point up. It was easy to get caught up in those photos and make assumptions... Since 2009 that house could have been flipped thru multiple sets of residents, especially if it is rental property. And no the police are not responding to an old photo, they cannot even if they wanted to. We just have to see how this baby died and put focus back on the immediate residents.

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Originally Posted by internet_pseudopod

While this is certainly the same house and there are some funny things going on there how can we be sure that the group of people pictured here are part of the same group that lost the child? The Google pictures are from 2009. Those people could have up and left.

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I still say those google riders are some brave souls. There are certain areas I'd not want that assignment. Nope. No amount of money...

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Originally Posted by Goose

they are probably just neighborhood watch volunteers and didn't recognize the google car with the cameras........

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Dunno I could see where some might have thoughts about getting out a gun if one of these were rolling by...

http://s-ak.buzzfed.com/static/enhan...03577016-1.jpg

Found this amusing one while looking to see what these look like...

http://www.spokesmanreview.com/blogs...pped%20car.jpg

^^^^ Hah... a bit 'weird' but not formidable enough to ward off the ticket and yellow boot parking enforcement folk, or in this case the police in general!

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Originally Posted by mikefmich

That house isn't fit for vermin. I shouldn't have watched, turned my stomach to think some innocent little kid died in that filth......accident or not.

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People are free to live like that, It seems, that's how they like it. Some neighbor should have called protective services if there was a kid [[s) living in a shit hole like that.

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Originally Posted by cla1945

I still wonder if the Police have been notified about these pictures from Google???

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DPD will have to answer to this story as it is breaking nationwide on Monday. Check HUFFPO, Gawker, etc.

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Originally Posted by antongast

Notified of what? That a red-blooded American patriot exercised his Constitutionally-protected right to keep and bear arms?

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Probably not a legally owned gun, and HE POINTED IT AT THE VEHICLE DRIVING BY. If you and I walked past each other, and as we passed you pulled your gun out and pointed it at me, you are breaking the law.

Do you all really think that if those people who live in that home had a choice to live in better living conditions that they wouldn't? I'm sure those 20 people just love living how they are living over there. It's got to be paradise sleeping in the bed and on the floor with a bunch of folks.

There is a house near me in Mexicantown that is "over-populated" and has an estimate [[by neighbors) of 30 people living in it, including many toddlers and children. I am told that it is a little Puerto Rican commune.It's a little annoying because, of course, there is a lot of noise. There are 6 city dumpsters in the backyard. There seems to be a young man directing and keeping order.

However, this property is scrupulously clean. Residents wash the windows, paint the trim, mow the lawn, etc.

People have a choice to live clean or live very low. Grandmama could assign chores: laundry, K-P; outside, etc. if she had advanced human values.

I think about the children from the child's house appearing in school. Children raised in squalor, filth, noise and chaos can't value or learn in school. WHY are people having children when they can't see the slightest good future for them?

So a Detroit Police cadaver dog found 1 year old Zyia in a closet filled with stinky clothes, shoes along with roaches, bugs and rat feces! In a East Side Detroit Home where her granmother lives. Right under their noses. This could be a act of foul play! I smell a motive.

In response to Comment #33, those people had a choice to either live clean, free from bugs and clutter or to live like animals. They chose to live like animals. It doesn't take a lot of brains or a lot of money to buy a bar of soap or to straighten up a home. I'll bet their cars are pristine with expensive speakers and fancy wheels. I'll bet they have plenty of bling. The house was a pig sty. It's all about priorities and the children are not at the top of the list.

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Originally Posted by cla1945

In response to Comment #33, those people had a choice to either live clean, free from bugs and clutter or to live like animals. They chose to live like animals. It doesn't take a lot of brains or a lot of money to buy a bar of soap or to straighten up a home. I'll bet their cars are pristine with expensive speakers and fancy wheels. I'll bet they have plenty of bling. The house was a pig sty. It's all about priorities and the children are not at the top of the list.

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Not really. These young guys generally look just as shabby as they live.

Google photographers can fear folks from ghettoes in American and international cities. Their employees have to cover each and every area around the world so when people log on it Google Maps, they would reconize their area without taking any risks going over there.

In most Detroit ghettohoods unlike the grandmother's house in Brinker Street. There are other homes where low-income families just don't have enough resources to provide a better life for themselves and other people. They are have-nots and underpriviledged. These folks need help to back on their feet. Complaining and cussing at their poor lifestyles will not make feel better or making the problem go away. People must show these meek and the weak what it means to achive the American Dream. BY MAKING AN EARNING!

WORD FROM THE STREET PROPHET

I feel sorry for those underpriviledge folks who lost their loved one in broken Detroit East Side home.

For Trayvon Martin, Rodney King, Guy Fawkes, Neda and the 99 Percenters.

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Originally Posted by SWMAP

There is a house near me in Mexicantown that is "over-populated" and has an estimate [[by neighbors) of 30 people living in it, including many toddlers and children. I am told that it is a little Puerto Rican commune.It's a little annoying because, of course, there is a lot of noise. There are 6 city dumpsters in the backyard. There seems to be a young man directing and keeping order.

However, this property is scrupulously clean. Residents wash the windows, paint the trim, mow the lawn, etc.

People have a choice to live clean or live very low. Grandmama could assign chores: laundry, K-P; outside, etc. if she had advanced human values.

I think about the children from the child's house appearing in school. Children raised in squalor, filth, noise and chaos can't value or learn in school. WHY are people having children when they can't see the slightest good future for them?

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Yes. The idea of a every person having their own room is an entirely modern [[within the past 100 years) Western idea. For all of history most families had at best two rooms. Somehow humanity survived and people took care of themselves and their children. Well, not in 21st century Detroit. Obviously you don't want a living situation like this under any circumstances in our country but they're the ones who let it get so bad that a child died. You could have put them up in a 10 bedroom house in Palmer Woods and I doubt the outcome, or the conditions, would be any different.

A little from Column A and a little from Column B.

These people seem to be the "I don't give a f***" type of hood rats that quickly degrade everything they touch. I am saddened to hear a baby died in that trap house, and I am sure lots of animals get better care than that child did.

All that said, this is what our society increasingly produces. When children are not fed wholesome meals, correctly educated, and provided with real future opportunities, this is what you get. Whatever our national mythology says, people do not "pull themselves up by their bootstraps." People need to be invested in so they don't become hood rats. Or else you're just shutting people out of society and then blaming them for being outlaws.

I'm not persuaded that the family here - and many of their neighbors - "became" hood rats [[as if at any time they were better livers) - they don't seem to have progressed to modern standards for home and child-raising from the original low point of generations ago.

I don't think it is "society's" fault.

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Originally Posted by SWMAP

I'm not persuaded that the family here - and many of their neighbors - "became" hood rats [[as if at any time they were better livers) - they don't seem to have progressed to modern standards for home and child-raising from the original low point of generations ago.

I don't think it is "society's" fault.

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It's this type of thinking that perpetuates ghettoes and hood rats. It's a rationalization, a way to explain away an abdication of duty to help our fellow man. That child never had a choice, and it's this type of thinking that resulted in our society refusing to aid her. We did not help. And, as surely as if we had shoved her in that closet ourselves, we are to blame.

Hood rats are made, not born. And they are the product of a society that sees some people as expendable.

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Originally Posted by 48091

Simply amazing attention to detail, you're very right.

WXYZ:
Attachment 14348

Google Street View Frame 1:
Attachment 14349

Google Street View Frame 2:
Attachment 14350

Google Street View Frame 3:
Attachment 14351

Google Street View Frame 4 [[gun actually pointed at Google vehicle):
Attachment 14352

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If you look at the woman sitting on the porch in frame 3, it kind of looks like the grandmother.

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Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

Whatever our national mythology says, people do not "pull themselves up by their bootstraps." People need to be invested in so they don't become hood rats. Or else you're just shutting people out of society and then blaming them for being outlaws.

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Glad you called this mythology because the truth is, especially these days, many people don't even have boots to pull them up by the straps.

Admonishing poor people for being poor.........classy.

It seems that with every toddler murder/death we hear about along comes the back story of several people living in squalor or with dangerous relatives etc. I wonder how much of this really is going on and we just don't hear about it because something bad, thankfully, doesn't happen.

And for those of you asking why are these people having kids. These people don't care that they are having kids. They just spread their seed around freely with no real consequences. It's a rite of passage it seems not a miracle or something to be cherished.

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Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

It's this type of thinking that perpetuates ghettoes and hood rats. It's a rationalization, a way to explain away an abdication of duty to help our fellow man. That child never had a choice, and it's this type of thinking that resulted in our society refusing to aid her. We did not help. And, as surely as if we had shoved her in that closet ourselves, we are to blame.

Hood rats are made, not born. And they are the product of a society that sees some people as expendable.

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What do you suggest be done? Should children like this be taken from their "parents"?

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Originally Posted by superduperman

Admonishing poor people for being poor.........classy.

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Being poor isn't the problem here.

Reading thru the verity of posts throughout this thread I see many people excusing away this extended families horrid living conditions with the classic liberal mantra of nobody has "given' them enough so they can rise above living like animals. Phooey!!! There is probably more than one welfare check being delivered to that house and judging by the Google street view enough able bodied men available on the porch to get a JOB, in fact it looks like one even has weapons training ready to go down and enlist in the Army. This is the Classic ghetto hood rat scenario and unfortunately through negligence has claimed the life a precious little baby girl who never had a chance. There were NO parenting skills available to that little baby, I'd love to know how old the uncle was but hey children caring for infant off springs in the ghetto in normal, I watched the process live in person the whole time growing up on the lower east-side, mid-30's grandmas, teenage moms and their kids "looking after the diapered babies. Its a sad fact of the Ghetto. I feel very bad for the father and mother but in their world this was a normal situation gone bad. These people [[regardless of color) choosing to live this way are the only ones who can change their situation...not the government...not the school...not the church...its called personal responsibility and accountability you can thank FDR and LBJ and over 70 years of failed government policy for enabling this type of situation to thrive in every major city in the country !

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Originally Posted by jackie5275

If you look at the woman sitting on the porch in frame 3, it kind of looks like the grandmother.

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I was just going to post that! I think so too.

In the mother's defense [[the mother of the baby), she didn't live in the house [[I dare not call it a home), according to news reports. The child was there being "cared for" by relatives while the mother recovered from surgery. Not sure how much of that is true...but it's what I heard. I still wouldn't leave my child in that environment...don't care if I were dying, I'd make other arrangements. I don't know if the mother grew up in that environment or if it was the father's family [[and by the looks of the news reports, I think it was the father's place of residence). I can only dare say what the mother's house looks like if she found that to be an acceptable place for someone to watch her toddler.

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Originally Posted by Lowell

Dunno I could see where some might have thoughts about getting out a gun if one of these were rolling by...

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Git the shotgun, Cletus... The martians is coming!


[[When I see these pics I expect it to start broadcasting something about coming to see the fabulous Blues Brothers band.)

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Originally Posted by jackie5275

If you look at the woman sitting on the porch in frame 3, it kind of looks like the grandmother.

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I thought the same thing, but in a different frame you can see it's a young girl. A young, stupid girl.

in reply to post #45, hell, my parents grew up during the depression and had nothing but they sure didn't live in filth! what's it take to pick things up off the floor.

You want to have sympathy for Detroit's poor, but when most of them don't even take the free path of graduating from high school, what can we do?

I know DPS isn't the greatest, but if you don't graduate high school are you going to be receptive to other things you have to work for?

Some people are just content to be poor. They have a bunch of kids, who they also condition to be content with being poor.

I don't know how to break the cycle. It will have to do with education, but I don't know what it would look like.

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Originally Posted by EASTSIDE CAT 67-83

Reading thru the verity of posts throughout this thread I see many people excusing away this extended families horrid living conditions with the classic liberal mantra of nobody has "given' them enough so they can rise above living like animals.

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I'm a liberal and as you can see I condone none of this. But go right ahead Mr. Classy, make the death of a child about your warped political agenda.

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Originally Posted by EASTSIDE CAT 67-83

you can thank FDR ...

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Classic so-called "conservative" values of hatred and vitriol. Franklin Roosevelt - REALLY?! The man who saw this country through the Depression and World War II, a good 70 years ago now and you're blaming him for this incident on Brinker Street. It's deeply disturbing first of all that you have the nerve to blast a President who saw this great nation through its darkest days - And what have you done that is so wonderful for society? anything? As far as I can tell you lived on the eastside until you bailed and went on to bitch about it for the following two decades - but that you blame him for today's ills is just bizarre.

I feel bad for you. I am young and hope I never become like you.

I see these flop houses around my neighborhood and can see why the cycle repeats itself over and over. If your parents sit on a porch all day that is what the children will accept as normal and will likely do the same. I feel bad for the babies and even a little sad for the parents, surely it is what they want to do and probably even enjoy it a bit. I mean going to work to eek out a living can be a bit tiring at times.
My dad is functionally illiterate and an alky but has worked all his life and I do the same after not graduating HS, for 13 years I've pulled on my 30 dollar Kmart boots at my menial factory job which provides me a decent living all I have to do is show up on time and do what I'm told and it goes pretty easy.
Basic soft skills and a decent attitude are all it takes to hold a halfway decent job IMO.
For me work is life and gives me purpose and provides means for us. I could not imagine being without my job

I could not understand most of what Zaia's father said but the part about the baby being wrapped in a fuckin white towel came through loud and clear. Poor child.

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Originally Posted by poobert

I'm a liberal and as you can see I condone none of this. But go right ahead Mr. Classy, make the death of a child about your warped political agenda.




Classic so-called "conservative" values of hatred and vitriol. Franklin Roosevelt - REALLY?! The man who saw this country through the Depression and World War II, a good 70 years ago now and you're blaming him for this incident on Brinker Street. It's deeply disturbing first of all that you have the nerve to blast a President who saw this great nation through its darkest days - And what have you done that is so wonderful for society? anything? As far as I can tell you lived on the eastside until you bailed and went on to bitch about it for the following two decades - but that you blame him for today's ills is just bizarre.

I feel bad for you. I am young and hope I never become like you.

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Ok PooBear lets Spar over your response to my post;

1. I am speaking of "government welfare" type programs that are largely liberal and democratic in origin and eventually end up sustaining mediocrity. I said nothing about FDR gettting the nation out of the Great Depression and helping to win WWII, although he was a staunch isolationist up until Pearl Harbor, but hey I'm glad that you are somewhat up on your history.

2. I posted what I saw growing up in a Detroit neighborhood where I was the minority [[reads whiteboy) where some not all of the young men on my block sat around drinking 40's and smoking joints complaining about "day cut ma check" they didn't graduate high school, fathered multiple children from multiple females, they did not keep their homes in decent condition.

3. You ask what have I done for society, well I graduated High school like I was supposed to and took my young 17 year old immature butt and joined the Navy where I spent 26 years providing for the safety and security of our great nation, I was not trying to do anything noble or great by joining but hey I needed a job, it turned out to be a good fit so I stayed a little longer than my first hitch [[I did 3 years of them as a Navy recruiter in Detroit where I tried as hard as I could to help qualified young men and women like me have the same opportunities I enjoyed. I was able to go to college [[night school for 10 years) on the GI bill [[provided by Harry S. Truman back in the day) where I eventually earned my Masters Degree, with that and my 26 years of experience I was able to land a 6 figure income in the areospace industry.

4. Poo Bear you are young.. which mean you are supposed to be liberal...The "Classic so-called "conservative" values of hatred and vitriol" that you claim I espouse is actually about personal accountability and responsibility. I have two young daughters, I would NEVER leave them to fend for themselves as this innocent child had to.

5. I can appreciate you feeling bad for me, with Liberals its always about the "feelings" as you grow and mature the ills of society will wear on you and you will evolve to have more conservative values. I wish no ill will towards you or the helpless children that roam the ghetto without proper parenting, but I have no sympathy for those who "CHOOSE" to live in filth and have no respect for what it means to be a parent or for the children they have brought into this world. Being a parent means you sacrifice everything for their well being, you go without so they can thrive, you give them love by providing a safe and secure place for them to grow and prosper, this was clearly not the case in this home.

6. What we all saw in this news report is what the Detroit Police and Fire Dept knows all too well and sees on a daily basis in Detroit.

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Originally Posted by EASTSIDE CAT 67-83

Ok PooBear lets Spar over your response to my post;

1. I am speaking of "government welfare" type programs that are largely liberal and democratic in origin and eventually end up sustaining mediocrity. I said nothing about FDR gettting the nation out of the Great Depression and helping to win WWII, although he was a staunch isolationist up until Pearl Harbor, but hey I'm glad that you are somewhat up on your history.

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FDR was an isolationist? That isn't true.

But anyway, why are you trying to make this thread about you?

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Originally Posted by ejames01

Being poor isn't the problem here.

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Really? Because reading these post all I see are comments about the living conditions of the house.

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Originally Posted by ejames01

FDR was an isolationist? That isn't true.

But anyway, why are you trying to make this thread about you?

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ej...It isn't about me, its about the tragic loss of a beautiful innocent child at the hands of ill responsible guardians. I just had to calm Poo Bear down by responding to his hissy fit over my post, BTW your doing a great job of off tracking this thread by your post????
On FDR just read your history, FDR dragged his feet and "pandered" to the isolationist movement thus making him complicit in their cause until Dec 7.

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Originally Posted by superduperman

Really? Because reading these post all I see are comments about the living conditions of the house.

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But that doesn't have anything to do with money. Lots of poor people keep their houses clean and don't sit on their porches with rifles.

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Originally Posted by EASTSIDE CAT 67-83

ej...It isn't about me, its about the tragic loss of a beautiful innocent child at the hands of ill responsible guardians. I just had to calm Poo Bear down by responding to his hissy fit over my post, BTW your doing a great job of off tracking this thread by your post????
On FDR just read your history, FDR dragged his feet and "pandered" to the isolationist movement thus making him complicit in their cause until Dec 7.

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Dragged his feet to do what? They were selling arms to the allies a year before pearl harbor and even Lend Lease was signed in March '41. What else could he have done before congress declared war and the public was ready to go to enter the war?

Talk about hijacking and trolling a thread. We've gone from a toddlers death to Roosevelt & Pearl Harbor?

C'mon....

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Originally Posted by superduperman

Admonishing poor people for being poor.........classy.

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Few people grew up poorer than my dad & his two sisters. But I guarantee you you coulda ate off my grandma's floors.

Living in abject squalor has nothing to do with being poor or wealthy. One of the filthiest homes I ever personally saw was near the corner of Grosse Pte. Blvd. & Moross. Calling it a pig sty would've been a step up.

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Originally Posted by mikefmich

Talk about hijacking and trolling a thread. We've gone from a toddlers death to Roosevelt & Pearl Harbor?

C'mon....

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What else can be said? Is there a constitutional solution that could help these people change?

This house is a very typical Detroit house. Young girls have babies so they can get welfare and get their own place. The only people who are supposed to be living in said house are her and her children. What always happens though, her baby daddy, unemployed, dealing drugs, moves in also. Then, she gets the idea to let more people move in to collect rent from them. I've been in many houses like this, it is not uncommon to see a mattress next to the furnace in the basement. Tons of people living in the house. My favorite, the heat is always set at 90 all winter with the windows open. The gas bill gets really high, they can't pay, it gets shut off. They expect to be able to lounge around all day in shorts with no shoes in the winter and be perfectly comfortable. They then claim that DTE is heartless for shutting them off. We now require these welfare girls to get a job within 5 years and give them some job training. I think we should make them take parenting classes, housekeeping and budgeting classes and have regular, surprise social worker visits to the homes of welfare recipients.

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Originally Posted by Detroitgayhistoryguy

This house is a very typical Detroit house. Young girls have babies so they can get welfare and get their own place. The only people who are supposed to be living in said house are her and her children. What always happens though, her baby daddy, unemployed, dealing drugs, moves in also. Then, she gets the idea to let more people move in to collect rent from them. I've been in many houses like this, it is not uncommon to see a mattress next to the furnace in the basement. Tons of people living in the house. My favorite, the heat is always set at 90 all winter with the windows open. The gas bill gets really high, they can't pay, it gets shut off. They expect to be able to lounge around all day in shorts with no shoes in the winter and be perfectly comfortable. They then claim that DTE is heartless for shutting them off. We now require these welfare girls to get a job within 5 years and give them some job training. I think we should make them take parenting classes, housekeeping and budgeting classes and have regular, surprise social worker visits to the homes of welfare recipients.

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Are you a social worker? What do you do to end up in houses like that? I find it difficult to believe that that is a "typical" Detroit house.

Anyway, the condition of the house isn't even that relevant. The girl died because either she was neglected and did something to accidentally cause her death OR was abused and killed by someone at the house.

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Originally Posted by ejames01

Are you a social worker? What do you do to end up in houses like that? I find it difficult to believe that that is a "typical" Detroit house.

Anyway, the condition of the house isn't even that relevant. The girl died because either she was neglected and did something to accidentally cause her death OR was abused and killed by someone at the house.

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No, I'm not a social worker. My former occupation as a real estate appraiser brought me to the inside of many Detroit houses. And yes, it is a highly typical Detroit house. The condition of the house shows how these people live, so it is entirely relevant.

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Originally Posted by ejames01

What else can be said? Is there a constitutional solution that could help these people change?

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really?????Yes lets amend the constitution and add a clause that prevents irresponsible people from making babies, yikes...

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Originally Posted by ejames01

Are you a social worker? What do you do to end up in houses like that? I find it difficult to believe that that is a "typical" Detroit house.

Anyway, the condition of the house isn't even that relevant. The girl died because either she was neglected and did something to accidentally cause her death OR was abused and killed by someone at the house.

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First of all, you don't have to be a social worker to end up inside these homes. There are a variety of programs out there that require home inspections, etc. A company I worked for did FREE rehabs on housing like that. Some of them were so ramshackled, so dilapidated, and so filty that we couldn't even get in the house. The people living in them wouldn't even be at the house when our workers got there to work, or wouldn't answer the door.

Some of them refused a brand new refrigerator because it wasn't a double door...or wasn't big enough...or wasn't stainless steel. The floors in some of the houses were so bad, our workers had to skirt the room to get from one side to the other, or risk falling through.

Inspectors from the City would approve putting up new drywall in an upstairs room without approving the money to fix the leak in the roof that caused the drywall to cave in.

But the people who live there choose to stay in some cases, even when new subsidized housing is available to them for little or no cost. Why? I have no idea unless it's so they don't have to live by the landlords' rules.

No one knows why she died yet [[unless I missed a news report this afternoon). I think everyone's point is that if the house wasn't such a pigsty, maybe they would have found her sooner. Maybe she was alive for a while in that closet?

I have been poor. The only time I was on welfare was when I was married to my first husband who didn't like to work. I got rid of him, got a job and moved on.

I lived on very little and supported my son for many years when his father would not pay child support [[before the days of automatic wage deductions). I didn't beg for a handout, I went to work making minimum wage most of the time. I survived. I didn't buy my kids shoes that cost $100. I didn't buy jeans that cost $100. He wore K-Mart brand most of his life. We ate mac & cheese and hot dogs a lot. We did without things like air conditioning because I couldn't afford it. But my house was NEVER like that. I always knew where my child was, and the children that I babysat for to make extra money.

I have empathy for those who need help. But I also believe that God helps those who help themselves. You have to WANT to do better. I know their role models may not have been good. But it's all a matter of priority.

I also have to say that I have met some very poor young mothers who do very well at keeping their house in order and staying out of trouble. I do not mean to paint everyone with the same brush. And this baby's mother is probably a good mom who thought by leaving her daughter with family while she was getting medical care, she was ok. Unfortunately, some tragedy unfolded and here we are.

There are so many societal problems in this country and particularly this City, you can't make any blanket statements about who people are and how they live. My heart breaks for her mother and father.

May God keep her next to him for eternity.

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Originally Posted by EASTSIDE CAT 67-83

Ok PooBear lets Spar over your response to my post;

1. I am speaking of "government welfare" type programs that are largely liberal and democratic in origin and eventually end up sustaining mediocrity. I said nothing about FDR gettting the nation out of the Great Depression and helping to win WWII, although he was a staunch isolationist up until Pearl Harbor, but hey I'm glad that you are somewhat up on your history.

2. I posted what I saw growing up in a Detroit neighborhood where I was the minority [[reads whiteboy) where some not all of the young men on my block sat around drinking 40's and smoking joints complaining about "day cut ma check" they didn't graduate high school, fathered multiple children from multiple females, they did not keep their homes in decent condition.

3. You ask what have I done for society, well I graduated High school like I was supposed to and took my young 17 year old immature butt and joined the Navy where I spent 26 years providing for the safety and security of our great nation, I was not trying to do anything noble or great by joining but hey I needed a job, it turned out to be a good fit so I stayed a little longer than my first hitch [[I did 3 years of them as a Navy recruiter in Detroit where I tried as hard as I could to help qualified young men and women like me have the same opportunities I enjoyed. I was able to go to college [[night school for 10 years) on the GI bill [[provided by Harry S. Truman back in the day) where I eventually earned my Masters Degree, with that and my 26 years of experience I was able to land a 6 figure income in the areospace industry.

4. Poo Bear you are young.. which mean you are supposed to be liberal...The "Classic so-called "conservative" values of hatred and vitriol" that you claim I espouse is actually about personal accountability and responsibility. I have two young daughters, I would NEVER leave them to fend for themselves as this innocent child had to.

5. I can appreciate you feeling bad for me, with Liberals its always about the "feelings" as you grow and mature the ills of society will wear on you and you will evolve to have more conservative values. I wish no ill will towards you or the helpless children that roam the ghetto without proper parenting, but I have no sympathy for those who "CHOOSE" to live in filth and have no respect for what it means to be a parent or for the children they have brought into this world. Being a parent means you sacrifice everything for their well being, you go without so they can thrive, you give them love by providing a safe and secure place for them to grow and prosper, this was clearly not the case in this home.

6. What we all saw in this news report is what the Detroit Police and Fire Dept knows all too well and sees on a daily basis in Detroit.

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I'm pretty up on my history as it was my major study.

We're not going to agree on everything but I also have no sympathy for those who do not try to better themselves and God forbid bring children into such a world.

Awesome service record. Thank you for what you have done. I am Reserve. We are going to have to agree to disagree on the liberal/government part. Happy Independence Day.

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Originally Posted by poobert

I'm pretty up on my history as it was my major study.

We're not going to agree on everything but I also have no sympathy for those who do not try to better themselves and God forbid bring children into such a world.

Awesome service record. Thank you for what you have done. I am Reserve. We are going to have to agree to disagree on the liberal/government part. Happy Independence Day.

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A happy ending!

I'm an anti-war fiscal conservative, so everyone I talk to hates me.

WJBK reported this morning about the pictures of the Google Gunman going "viral". However, they did not report about the connection of the house being a place where an innocent toddler died while 20 people stood by not watching her.

They just ran the story again, but this time included reporting and interviews about the house being the same one where Zyia died.

I wonder if this whole this whole story is a result of Packman11 noticing the connection!? This whole thing might have been uncovered right here.

Article in today's Detroit News notes the DYes discussion of this back in July.

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...CFRONTPAGE%7Cp

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Originally Posted by Kathleen

Article in today's Detroit News notes the DYes discussion of this back in July.

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...CFRONTPAGE%7Cp

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What took 'em so long? And why no link to DetroitYES!, the source of really fresh news? LOL! ;)

These people lived liked animals, actually I take that back most animals treat their young better than this group did...disgusting!

Here's a recent article mentioning the house, google pic, and the baby.

http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2012/09/...gun/?hpt=hp_t3

And on the legality aspects...

If the gunman was ever identified, is this a crime? Wayne County Prosecutor Kym Worthy said not necessarily.
Worthy said a lot of questions would need to be answered.”Was it this person’s home? Because you do have a right to bear arms in your home. Certainly it looks like he’s on a porch that’s attached to a home, so that would not be a legal issue. Is this person an adult or a juvenile?”
Worthy said, in certain circumstances, even pointing a gun at someone is not illegal, if you feel threatened.

wow, cbs detroit is so current on the news stories... next thing you know they will be uncovering stories that Obama is affiliated with a know terrorist member of the weatherunderground.......

The gun is now blurred out in the pic at the GMap link
http://goo.gl/maps/LpEJ