DDOT Sickout: No Bus Routes Today

http://www.freep.com/article/20111104/NEWS01/111104009/Riders-stranded-bus-driver-protest-halts-Detroit-service-DDOT-warns-extreme-delays-?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE

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A protest by at least 100 Detroit Department of Transportation bus drivers today has crippled service for bus riders across the city of Detroit.

DDOT passengers have been left stranded throughout the city as drivers say they are afraid to board the buses after one was attacked on a bus Thursday.


"The bus drivers have expressed concern about this incident," Mayor Dave Bing's spokesman, Stephen Serkaian, said this morning. "We are meeting with the bus drivers' union. We are trying to resolve their concern. At the same time we’re encouraging them to get back on the buses and get the buses back on the street."

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One driver was attacked yesterday so they do a system-wide sickout with zero notice? It would be one thing to protest and bring attention to the incident, but to just do a knee-jerk system-wide sickout the next day is not acceptable.

People count on those buses. Some folks might lose their jobs or be docked pay because they can't get to work. I know folks that rely on those buses, and they've been let down.

Fire them all. Every last one of them. Replace them with people who are willing to work.

People will do anything to get a long weekend.....:o

48091, if the drivers are not safe, the passengers are not safe. If the passengers do not feel safe you can kiss any form of meaningful regional transit reform goodbye.

This is not the first incident where something like this has happened on a bus. This may have been the straw that broke the camel's back.

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Originally Posted by DetroitPlanner

48091, if the drivers are not safe, the passengers are not safe. If the passengers do not feel safe you can kiss any form of meaningful regional transit reform goodbye.

This is not the first incident where something like this has happened on a bus. This may have been the straw that broke the camel's back.

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Perhaps they should have brought light to it. Planned a sick-out and advertised it to the media. This would allow people to at least know ahead of time and make alternate arrangements.

Just doing it the next day while people too poor to drive wait at freezing cold bus stops for buses that aren't coming? Just sounds irresponsible, dangerous, and harmful to people that need to be employed and rely on DDOT buses to get there.

Fire. Them. All.

The ongoing DDOT clusterf*ck is the prime example of why Bing needs to go.

I can not believe he has let this go on for so long. And I bet that driver was attacked out of frustration because of the ongoing slowdown they were doing. The drivers are at fault too. And so are the mechanics. Our lack of real transit has been the number 1 problem with SE Michigan for decades. We are 50 years behind the times, and the world is not waiting for us.

While the lack of notice is not good, it is understandable for drivers to be concerned about their safety. To me, the embarassing [[but not surprising) part of the story is that it took the police 30 minutes to respond.

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Originally Posted by cman710

While the lack of notice is not good, it is understandable for drivers to be concerned about their safety. To me, the embarassing [[but not surprising) part of the story is that it took the police 30 minutes to respond.

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What about the safety of students, both college age and younger [[some kids use DDOT to get to school when school busing isn't available). What about the safety of people trying to get to work?

All these people and kids were waiting out at bus stops in the freezing cold before the sun came up because these yahoos wanted a three day weekend.

Does anyone else feel the City is nearing closer to something much bigger and more violent?

where is Bernie Goetz when you need him.....

The City has cut DDOT and police finances to the bone. It's not fair to blame the drivers, officers and the mechanics for the end result.

Imagine being a DDOT driver and picking up dozens of angry passengers that have been waiting for hours. In a city where people are shot over a "look" it's not much of a stretch to think that the drivers could be in serious danger from irate passengers. I sure as hell wouldn't want to be in their position.

I agree with 48091. I also agree with the bus drivers - they should be safer on their jobs. But there have to be much better ways to go about this and make their voices heard.

I can think of no quicker way to lose public support though than leaving innocent passengers, who count on the buses to get to where they need to be, stranded all over the city. Instead of gaining sympathy for their difficulties, this just makes them seem arrogant, insular, entitled, and uncaring for the very passengers they are employed to serve. A stupid and ultimately counter-productive move that only makes enemies out of their natural allies, the people who most need and support timely and safe transit.

Two wrongs don't make a right. It's wrong that the bus drivers were put in a position to have what happened yesterday take place, but their response to leave thousands of people stranded with no notice [[and potentially putting those people at risk in the process) is also wrong.

DDOT needs to hire Ty Pennington and his megaphone. "Bus driver! Move that bus!" Surely they'd listen to him, right? :)

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Originally Posted by Goose

where is Bernie Goetz when you need him.....

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Bernie would be found guilty and locked up for 20 years here in Detroit...Protecting life and property is still criminally prosecuted in Detroit.....

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Originally Posted by Johnnny5

Imagine being a DDOT driver and picking up dozens of angry passengers that have been waiting for hours.

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Imagine the same situation Monday, when the DDOT drivers are picking up passengers they totally abandoned today. Do you think those passengers are going to be happy?

Unless the drivers have a huge PR campaign lined up for the weekend detailing their problems with the department, with some *really* compelling argument for leaving their passengers high and dry, I don't see how this is helping their cause.

I agree with 48091, fire them all. This sick out isn't about safety, just like their work slow down isn't about ensuring the best work is done on the buses.

DDOT has shown that they care about one thing and one thing only, themselves. Hopefully when an EFM is brought in their union contracts will be voided and the drivers and maintenance workers will actually have to perform as expected and in a manner comparable to other cities.

DDOT and AFSCME are in for a rude awakening when an EFM is appointed.

Indeed it's off the chain crazy. I am so glad to have resumed driving. I spent 3 months out there on public transpo and while most of the drivers I met where cool to hold the uninvolved passengers hostage like this is just another reason to not be amongst them. Public transportation in this city is melting all the way down!!! Taxi cabs should do well today!

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Originally Posted by 48091

One driver was attacked yesterday so they do a system-wide sickout with zero notice? It would be one thing to protest and bring attention to the incident, but to just do a knee-jerk system-wide sickout the next day is not acceptable.

People count on those buses. Some folks might lose their jobs or be docked pay because they can't get to work. I know folks that rely on those buses, and they've been let down.

Fire them all. Every last one of them. Replace them with people who are willing to work.

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Hmm, they should have taken note on what has gone down with DPS teachers and AFL-CIO/ DFT....

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Originally Posted by jt1

I agree with 48091, fire them all. This sick out isn't about safety, just like their work slow down isn't about ensuring the best work is done on the buses.

DDOT has shown that they care about one thing and one thing only, themselves. Hopefully when an EFM is brought in their union contracts will be voided and the drivers and maintenance workers will actually have to perform as expected and in a manner comparable to other cities.

DDOT and AFSCME are in for a rude awakening when an EFM is appointed.

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Precisely. I was on the Woodward and the driver had to get out of his seat to check someone that was arguing over the fare amount they owed. The crazy man backed down fortunately. There are going to be alot of 'tude' from riders Monday for sure.

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Originally Posted by JBMcB

Imagine the same situation Monday, when the DDOT drivers are picking up passengers they totally abandoned today. Do you think those passengers are going to be happy?

Unless the drivers have a huge PR campaign lined up for the weekend detailing their problems with the department, with some *really* compelling argument for leaving their passengers high and dry, I don't see how this is helping their cause.

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I concur with firing them all. This is simply unacceptable. I wonder how many people are at risk of losing their jobs because of this.

I remember one guy on my team getting fired when his car broke down and having to catch the bus from the west site to the old GM building back in '99. It's time for radical change.

Exactly!!! Well stated!

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Originally Posted by sirrealone

Two wrongs don't make a right. It's wrong that the bus drivers were put in a position to have what happened yesterday take place, but their response to leave thousands of people stranded with no notice [[and potentially putting those people at risk in the process) is also wrong.

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Fire every one of them. This is a disgrace.

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Originally Posted by jt1

I agree with 48091, fire them all. This sick out isn't about safety, just like their work slow down isn't about ensuring the best work is done on the buses.

DDOT has shown that they care about one thing and one thing only, themselves. Hopefully when an EFM is brought in their union contracts will be voided and the drivers and maintenance workers will actually have to perform as expected and in a manner comparable to other cities.

DDOT and AFSCME are in for a rude awakening when an EFM is appointed.

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Somewhere a Mackinaw Center crony is saying "I told you it would work!". Cut funding until it's impossible to effectively operate and then you have the perfect excuse to privatize.

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Originally Posted by Johnnny5

Somewhere a Mackinaw Center crony is saying "I told you it would work!". Cut funding until it's impossible to effectively operate and then you have the perfect excuse to privatize.

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I'm the last person to agree with the Mackinaw center and I do not believe core services should be privatized. That said, the actions of the drivers and the mechanics at DDOT show that they care about themselves and union negotiations and don't give two shits about the citizens.

Cutting funding is a sad reality, intentionally walking away from your job, stranding people and taking 2-3 times the time of your peers for repairs is not the fault of some conspiracy. It is the fault of the rank and file taking orders from the union to stick it to the city by negatively impacting the citizens.

Not taking sides, but per the article I guess the the driver was beaten as the other DOT staff [[including security staff) inside the building [[Rosa Parks Station) looked on....? What's was up with that?

"Gaffney said two officers inside the station did not help, and Detroit Police officers arrived 30 minutes after the beating started. The driver was taken to a local hospital, where he was treated and released..."

Vid of the fight and those who observed it:

http://www.clickondetroit.com/video/29678629/index.html

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Originally Posted by Zacha341

Not taking sides, but per the article I guess the the driver was beaten as the other DOT staff [[including security staff) inside the building [[Rosa Parks Station) looked on....? What's was up with that?

"Gaffney said two officers inside the station did not help, and Detroit Police officers arrived 30 minutes after the beating started. The driver was taken to a local hospital, where he was treated and released..."

Vid of the fight and those who observed it:

http://www.clickondetroit.com/video/29678629/index.html

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So it appear solidarity only applies when it comes to staging a sick out? When it comes to helping one of your peers in trouble that is someone else's problem.

I certainly hope the security guards are immediately fired regardless if they are unionized or not.

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Originally Posted by 48091

Perhaps they should have brought light to it. Planned a sick-out and advertised it to the media. This would allow people to at least know ahead of time and make alternate arrangements.

Just doing it the next day while people too poor to drive wait at freezing cold bus stops for buses that aren't coming? Just sounds irresponsible, dangerous, and harmful to people that need to be employed and rely on DDOT buses to get there.

Fire. Them. All.

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The point of a sick out or blackboard flu or blue flu is to make people realize what it is that the employees do and to make it difficult to operate as if it's a normal day. Advertising it in the paper so people could make other arrangements defeats the purpose of the event. All that would show is that people CAN get along without them.

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Originally Posted by jcole

The point of a sick out or blackboard flu or blue flu is to make people realize what it is that the employees do and to make it difficult to operate as if it's a normal day. Advertising it in the paper so people could make other arrangements defeats the purpose of the event. All that would show is that people CAN get along without them.

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Fucking over the people with limited/no power doesn't do much but inconvenience people dependant upon those services.

Rationalizing it that way is ridiculous.

Yes, apparently his co-workers were not going to 'catch' the beat-down with OR for him! They essential 'threw' THE DRIVER UNDER THE BUS! Now he's their champion of protest? What's up with all this mess!?? I've been down to the center when I was in between cars. This had to be ugly to observe.

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Originally Posted by jt1

So it appear solidarity only applies when it comes to staging a sick out? When it comes to helping one of your peers in trouble that is someone else's problem.

I certainly hope the security guards are immediately fired regardless if they are unionized or not.

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Originally Posted by jt1

Fucking over the people with limited/no power doesn't do much but inconvenience people dependant upon those services.

Rationalizing it that way is ridiculous.

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I'm not rationalizing anything; I'm making a simple statement of fact. If you are striking to gain something, you don't make it easier for people to get along without you.

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Originally Posted by jcole

I'm not rationalizing anything; I'm making a simple statement of fact. If you are striking to gain something, you don't make it easier for people to get along without you.

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Well, it's time to FIRE these drivers without notice. Let them know how much they counted on those paychecks. Let them know how inconvenienced they are by not having a job.

Yeah, that seems foundational IMO.

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Originally Posted by jcole

I'm not rationalizing anything; I'm making a simple statement of fact. If you are striking to gain something, you don't make it easier for people to get along without you.

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Originally Posted by jcole

I'm not rationalizing anything; I'm making a simple statement of fact. If you are striking to gain something, you don't make it easier for people to get along without you.

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So you are confirming that the intent of this is to cause harm to the pawns in the game. Afterwareds I'm sure DDOT will issue a statement that serving their customers is their top priority or some other non-sense.

DDOT cares as much about their customers as I care about the last thing I left in the toilet. I'd respect them a lot more if they just came out and admitted that the customers are nothing more than a necessary inconvenience in their day.

How the hell would I confirm anything; I'm not a bus driver.
I assume you are one of those people who agrees with Snyder that public servants shouldn't have the right to strike or have collective bargaining. Only the private sector is entitled to raises and job safety because they don't inconvenience the bus riders, students or general public.

My office has a pretty good view of the Rosa Parks Transit Center and that place is barren today...

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Originally Posted by jt1

I agree with 48091, fire them all. This sick out isn't about safety, just like their work slow down isn't about ensuring the best work is done on the buses.

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Of course it's about safety. The bus drivers should stay on strike until the city gets cops or guards on every bus.

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Originally Posted by jcole

I assume you are one of those people who agrees with Snyder that public servants shouldn't have the right to strike or have collective bargaining. Only the private sector is entitled to raises and job safety because they don't inconvenience the bus riders, students or general public.

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You do understand the difference between a strike and what happened today? Right?

They're under contract. They must perform.

I understand the safety issue, and I feel that it most certainly should be address. However, screwing over everyone isn't the way to address it.

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Originally Posted by 48091

I understand the safety issue, and I feel that it most certainly should be address. However, screwing over everyone isn't the way to address it.

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What is the way? Some stupid PR campaign? The city can barely provide the most basic governmental functions. The drivers are the point of contact with the customers and are being pushed the breaking point. Security watches a driver getting beat for half-an-hour and do nothing? The riders standing around the station watch the driver getting beat for half-an-hour and do nothing? If the cops won't come then it's time for vigilante justice; the people standing around should have ganged up on these kids and beat their lights out. If the cops won't support the drivers, if the security guards won't protect the drivers, if the citizens won't step up, then fuck 'em all. No protection from the animals in the city then no service.

Very good, MikeM. How funny was the suggestion above that drivers should go en masse to Manoogian! And be booted by security there.

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Well, it's time to FIRE these drivers without notice.

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Yeah, that'll help the unemployment rate.

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Originally Posted by 48091

You do understand the difference between a strike and what happened today? Right?

They're under contract. They must perform.

I understand the safety issue, and I feel that it most certainly should be address. However, screwing over everyone isn't the way to address it.

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Do YOU realize that people under contract walk out on strike to improve work conditions? Ever heard of blackboard flu, blue flu? You can strike to get a better contract not just because you don't have a contract. They are on a walk out to get better safety measures. Sure, fire them all and then watch the union retaliate.

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Originally Posted by MikeM

If the cops won't come then it's time for vigilante justice; the people standing around should have ganged up on these kids and beat their lights out.

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Come on, who's going to do that? Would you do that? If I encountered a fistfight on my way to work, I'd be running like hell in the other direction.

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Originally Posted by antongast

Come on, who's going to do that? Would you do that? If I encountered a fistfight on my way to work, I'd be running like hell in the other direction.

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Yes, after collecting a group of concerned citizens, you know, like passengers on airplanes do these days.

My wife comes from the sticks; she can't comprehend this story. I had to explain this town to her - about how beat down and apathetic the populace is. If this happened to a relative of hers she'd have twenty cousins at these kids' doorstep and the blood would be flowing. If there's no fear of the police, of jail time, of retribution, then you're left with packs of juveniles terrorizing everyone from bus riders to bus drivers.

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Originally Posted by Meddle

Yeah, that'll help the unemployment rate.

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Actually, it wouldn't have an effect.

You fire the people that don't want to work and hire people who do in their place.

It's the same thing we should have done with those union mechanics.

Millions for mass transit and then this should happen?This plays into hands of the ,"I'll never go down there" crowd.

DDOT serves about 120,000 riders every day. That's roughly 2 Ford Field sellouts, 3 CoPa sellouts or 6 sellouts at the Joe. How many cops are on duty for the sports sellouts? Now, I wonder how many cops are on hand for security on the busses? Apparently, not even 2 could be found for 30 minutes in the middle of the day yesterday. I recall hearing that Wayne Country sheriffs randomly ride on DDOT buses. Does anybody know if they still do?

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Originally Posted by jcole

Do YOU realize that people under contract walk out on strike to improve work conditions? Ever heard of blackboard flu, blue flu? You can strike to get a better contract not just because you don't have a contract. They are on a walk out to get better safety measures. Sure, fire them all and then watch the union retaliate.

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All of which doesn't make it any less stupid of a move. I can't imagine anything worse for the bus drivers' PR, or their relationship with passengers, than to walk out and literally leave people out in the cold. People who depend on them to get them to work, and school, and medial appointments and such, many of whom are seniors. People who are powerless to change the drivers' working conditions and who, as transit users in a town where there aren't that many of them, are the most likely supporters of better and safer public transit.

In the meantime, the higher-ups, who travel to their jobs in their official cars and are not inconvenienced by this in the least, will just see this sick-out as yet another excuse to screw over the "lazy" bus drivers, especially since they have now acted in clear violation of their contract. And, as a result of today's action, much more of the public is likely agree with those higher-ups, since they or someone they know will have been left hanging by the bus drivers for something they had no hand in.

All in all a dumb move and a tragic miscalculation.

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Originally Posted by downtownguy

I recall hearing that Wayne Country sheriffs randomly ride on DDOT buses. Does anybody know if they still do?

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No. DPD sued for the DDOT Transit Police contract back in [[I think) 2009, and won. In theory, DPD officers should be randomly patrolling the buses now, but it's pretty rare for them to actually do so. I don't actually remember the WCS officers patrolling the buses for extended periods of time [[when I used to see them they usually got on, rode a couple stops, recorded the bus number, and got off again), but they did respond very promptly when drivers called them for help.

Everyone in Detroit and suburbs are living the infany when the Amalgamated Transit Union just walk off the D-DOT bus line and stay home. Their demands is 'more trasnit police or no city bus service'. KING BING and the Detroit City Council is very upset and shocked about this outcome. Thousands of Metro-Detroiters see that D-DOT is not coming their ghettohoods. This word is spreading even to the U.S. Government. They see when Detroit and other American cities are in dire straights.

Folks after 9-11 Americans are still living in fear! Fear that their way of life is dying. Fear when you lose your wants, turining to crime is last resort to stay alive. Jobs are dissapearing, homes are lost, our global ecomony is shambles. It's seams to me that the Mayans way of the end of the world starts with the collapse of human knowledge and wisdom. That's wha happent to them. It would happen to us if we don't fix our civilization.


WORD FROM THE STREET PROPHET

As I wait for Mad Max to come. Ten Year old Simon from Sir. William Golding's Book 'Lord of the Flies' said to the rest of kids who are trapped in the unknown tropical island. "I know who the beast is, It's all of us."

For the 99 Percenters and Guy Fawkes, Neda I miss you so.

The bus drivers were trying to get somebody's attention and they sure did. That's what's been needed.

http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/dpp/news/local/video-shows-ddot-bus-brawl-that-led-to-the-halt-of-detroit-bus-service-20111104-mr

Witness says bus driver started fight. Wonder if that changes anything about the situation though...

Lots of heat on this thread. Not much light, though.

First, you should clear away misconceptions if you want to see things clearly. One misconception I see here over and over again is "they don't want to work." Really? Is that why they have a difficult, stressful job that they go to every day? Because they don't want to work? That just doesn't make any sense. This is just something to say so that you can blare:

FIRE THEM ALL!

I'm sure it feels good to say that, but even though the full-blown thermonuclear Reagan-on-PATCO option is a dearly held tenet of lots of blustering types, it only defers the real problems...

You see, in my experience, behind every compromised work force is poor management. You can tell right away when you enter a place that has good management: The workers are happy, helpful, get the job done and send you on your way. Similarly, the sullen, unhelpful work force at some establishments tells you the managers are stupid assholes.

Now, all this is unrelated to the issues of sick-outs and such. But if you guys really want to see the problem for what it is, let's have less of these emotional, knee-jerk reactions and look at the management's part of the problem too.

Hmmm, maybe that means that Bing and the Clownsil should be fired? Worth a thought...

I think that the working people of Detroit will sympathize with the drivers. Those of us who work for a living can certainly understand that no one should have to put up with violence on the job. Agree here with Ordinary - they did what they needed to do to get enough attention to their work dangers to get get action. It was bad for everybody, but action appears to have been taken pretty quick.

Let corporations take over Detroit. Let them run D-DOT, Let them run Detroit Public Schools, Police Fire Dept, its waterworks, its public lighting dept, its tax dept.

It may happen in 100 years just like the book Snow Crash.

Take a good look at the D-DOT service back the 1985!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEvAm...eature=related

GOOD NEWS FOLKS!

D-DOT Busses will resume its routes!

http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/29686072/detail.html

But for how long?

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Originally Posted by antongast

No. DPD sued for the DDOT Transit Police contract back in [[I think) 2009, and won. In theory, DPD officers should be randomly patrolling the buses now, but it's pretty rare for them to actually do so. I don't actually remember the WCS officers patrolling the buses for extended periods of time [[when I used to see them they usually got on, rode a couple stops, recorded the bus number, and got off again), but they did respond very promptly when drivers called them for help.

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Thanks for the answer antongast. The Detroit News had a little more on this in today's paper:

Friday's walkout is the second in recent years. In May 2007, DDOT drivers shut down the system for a day because of concerns about safety. Later that year, City Council approved a hotly contested plan to have undercover Wayne County Sheriffs' deputies ride the city's buses, using a three-year, $11.7 million federal grant. However, the Detroit Police Officers Association fought the plan, claiming its officers should patrol the city's buses. An arbitrator ruled for the DPOA in 2009, and Detroit officers took over the patrol duties, although the grant has since expired.

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Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

First, you should clear away misconceptions if you want to see things clearly. One misconception I see here over and over again is "they don't want to work." Really? Is that why they have a difficult, stressful job that they go to every day? Because they don't want to work? That just doesn't make any sense. This is just something to say so that you can blare:

FIRE THEM ALL!

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It's not so much that they don't want to work it is that they have no desire and no concern for their customer base.

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I'm sure it feels good to say that, but even though the full-blown thermonuclear Reagan-on-PATCO option is a dearly held tenet of lots of blustering types, it only defers the real problems...

You see, in my experience, behind every compromised work force is poor management. You can tell right away when you enter a place that has good management: The workers are happy, helpful, get the job done and send you on your way. Similarly, the sullen, unhelpful work force at some establishments tells you the managers are stupid assholes

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Can we agree that the drivers, mechanics and management all likely need to be fired. There's no question leadership fo DDOT is completely incompetent but the workers [[drivers and mechanics) have shown they don't care about their customers. There are mechanics that are taking 2-3 times that of their peers to make basic repairs [[which is also an issue of mismanagement) and I don't think anyone would disagree that there is an intentional work slow down. We have drivers that will stage a sick out with complete disregard for the customers. If safety was such a problem they should have been making some noise prior to this extreme measure. Up til now the only thing that the union has been vocal about is that maintenance doesn't have the parts to perform repairs. The argument of driver safety hasn't gotten much attention and the union reps certainly haven't been making an issue of it.

Do I think driver safety is an issue? Yes. I just question why the tactic was to stay relatively quiet about it then take extreme action at the detrimental of your customers.

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Now, all this is unrelated to the issues of sick-outs and such. But if you guys really want to see the problem for what it is, let's have less of these emotional, knee-jerk reactions and look at the management's part of the problem too.

Hmmm, maybe that means that Bing and the Clownsil should be fired? Worth a thought

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Agree the city leadership and council are on the hook for this, just as the union leadership is as well. Can we agree to fire Bing, council, management and union leadership, implement reforms and metrics that will determine how work is being performed given the right tools then allow that the underperformers may quickly be fired?

No jt1, we will not all agree with that.

I was dependant on the bus system for more than 6 years, and during that time, i saw a lot.

What used to royally piss me off was watching dozens of school kids take over the bus every week day from 2-6. I'm not sure how many of you are aware of this, but several of the DPS and most of the charter schools in both Detroit and the burbs DO NOT provide busses to get these kids home after school, so the DDOT/Smart buses are expected to baby-sit all of these kids, some as young as 4 and 5. Imagine trying to get your bus down the road safely when you have a bus full of children throwing shit, spilling shit, fighting, yelling, talking on the phone, playing music, trying to climb out of and/or throw stuff out of the windows, and telling you to get f*cked when you tell them to sit down and be respectful of other passengers.

And let's not forget the parents who will get on the bus to cuss the driver out when the parent has to wait an extra fifteen minutes at the corner for their kid, if they even bother to meet them at all.

I had a Smart driver who once dumped an entire bus load of us in the dopehood off Gratiot south of 6mile at 10:30pm because he lost it after kids on his bus kept pulling the cord and cussin at him. One of them threw something at him and that was the last straw. Having lived in bad neighborhoods before, i wasn't that upset about being in a shit part of town, but most of the other people were freakin out. So I took the leader role, kept us all together, kept everyone talking to keep their minds off of the fear of not knowing where they were. After conversing for a few, it became apparent that most weren't pissed off at the driver, they were pissed off at the kids. They understood the dynamics of the situation because they see what i see: bus drivers hosting Romper Room everyday, which Im sure was not agreed upon in their contract.

Bus drivers expect hassels with kids and grown people, but lots of these kids act like it's a free-for-all on the bus. My support is with the drivers, and they have every right to demand safety for themselves and for their passengers. I EXPECT that from them as a passenger.

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Originally Posted by Danny

Take a good look at the D-DOT service back the 1985!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEvAm...eature=related

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All I can say is WOW.

I would recommend going to YouTube to see these videos.

The "Fire them all" contingent don't seem to be taking into consideration that IF they fired all the bus drivers, that would have put the bus system out of commission a hell of a lot longer than about 12 hours. You would have to take applications and vet all of the applicants to make sure they have chauffeur's licenses or are eligible to get one and then fight with the union to get them driving those busses.

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Originally Posted by detroitsgwenivere

No jt1, we will not all agree with that.

I was dependant on the bus system for more than 6 years, and during that time, i saw a lot.

What used to royally piss me off was watching dozens of school kids take over the bus every week day from 2-6. I'm not sure how many of you are aware of this, but several of the DPS and most of the charter schools in both Detroit and the burbs DO NOT provide busses to get these kids home after school, so the DDOT/Smart buses are expected to baby-sit all of these kids, some as young as 4 and 5. Imagine trying to get your bus down the road safely when you have a bus full of children throwing shit, spilling shit, fighting, yelling, talking on the phone, playing music, trying to climb out of and/or throw stuff out of the windows, and telling you to get f*cked when you tell them to sit down and be respectful of other passengers.

And let's not forget the parents who will get on the bus to cuss the driver out when the parent has to wait an extra fifteen minutes at the corner for their kid, if they even bother to meet them at all.

I had a Smart driver who once dumped an entire bus load of us in the dopehood off Gratiot south of 6mile at 10:30pm because he lost it after kids on his bus kept pulling the cord and cussin at him. One of them threw something at him and that was the last straw. Having lived in bad neighborhoods before, i wasn't that upset about being in a shit part of town, but most of the other people were freakin out. So I took the leader role, kept us all together, kept everyone talking to keep their minds off of the fear of not knowing where they were. After conversing for a few, it became apparent that most weren't pissed off at the driver, they were pissed off at the kids. They understood the dynamics of the situation because they see what i see: bus drivers hosting Romper Room everyday, which Im sure was not agreed upon in their contract.

Bus drivers expect hassels with kids and grown people, but lots of these kids act like it's a free-for-all on the bus. My support is with the drivers, and they have every right to demand safety for themselves and for their passengers. I EXPECT that from them as a passenger.

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When I saw the "fire them all" comments, I ignored them because 1) this is a forum and the poster can post whatever they like and 2) they are posting purely out of fantasy so it can't be taken seriously.

When you commented on how students were riding the buses alongside regular passengers, I had to go back in time when Detroit had a dollar or two in its coffers and remembered how DOT had "Student" buses. I was going to Ford in the late 80's and they had the buses parked on Fargo for the students to jump on go home. Now they force the students to pack themselves with customer and its holy hell.

i love the people saying fire them all.yeah guys, fire the bus drivers. who are you going to get to drive busses for those wages when passengers are THREATENING THEM WITH KNIVES? anyone jumping up to drive the busses? anyone with signs in front of city hall saying 'i'll drive the bus!' ? no?some people here are comparing it to 9/11, thats actually a good point. multiple people have said the two things that made us safer since then are stronger cockpit doors and having the pilots carry guns.so whos up for some protective glass around the drivers area [[like taxi drivers have) and give them weapons to fight back?

I agree. Lets just be fair and don't take sides.