Just got word from Downtown.
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Just got word from Downtown.
Well they better hurry, the scrap money is needed by June 15th.
And history in Detroit continues to repeat itself. Another opportunity to improve the area is lost forever.
I can't wait to see the wonderful use of the land that I have no doubt is coming!
What a sad, short-sighted decision. I guess that this fight is over. It's a pity that the 400k used to demolish this historical structure couldn't be used elsewhere in Detroit.
I bet Farrow had the demo equipment fired up to start whacking as soon as the judge's ruling came down. Anyone at or near The Corner?
Somewhere, the corners of Ilitch's mouth are twitching into something like a rictus. [[It's as close as he gets to something called "smiling.")
DetNews has a short story up. Says appeal is possible, but it doesn't look good.
http://tinyurl.com/m6l452
And Freep posts right behind it, though it's an AP story, not staff:
http://freep.com/article/20090608/NE...tion+to+resume
Motion for appeal denied, eh? Well, that's the ballgame, folks.
http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/dpp/news..._Fate_of_Tiger
Great news! I guess the suburban obstructionists will have to cling to another abandoned, half-demolished wreck.
They were already demo'ing that part last week before they were stopped, no?
I can tell you that 99% of the residents of the area that I have spoken with, including myself, backed the conservancy on this one. It's more like, the suburbanite DEGC board is obstructing what the residents want.
agreed 100%. i'm not a corktown [[i'm in woodbridge) resident, but i speak with residents and drive through the area almost daily. that neighborhood doesn't need another parking lot. hell, TS is actually generating money! didn't they shoot a film there last friday? way to go, DEGC! the travesty of "progress" marches onward...
I heard that Novi was pushing legislation through Lansing to build a new Tiger Stadium, though the DEGC will get to vote one last time whether or not to proceed with demolision. If they once again approve to tear it down, tax money will be directed to Novi to build a new one. :)
The city most CERTAINLY has plans for The Corner. They've most CERTAINLY got SOMETHING up their sleeves. But they've never said so publicly. They dissed the good people of the Conservancy. They dissed Senator Carl Levin. And they DISSED my main man Ernie Harwell. They've got SOME nerve.
I say we look into the city's agreement with MCM/Farrow and get the TRUTH about all this. Expose all the lies. And find out what, if any, conflict of interest Judge Edwards had here. I'm no attorney, but I'm an educated bloke, and I felt like the city was going to get its ass handed to it in court this morning.
I suppose I'd make a horrible lawyer ... but I smell a rat.
Meanwhile, Dave Bing's continued silence is deafening.
It is a sad day in Detroit, Bing is just perpetuating the cycle of corruption in the city. In a time of bought politicians it is so sad to see this cycle continue... I do not see the city telling Bing that his plans for the watermark condo's are no longer viable... And I do not see the EDC rushing to tear down the Brewster Projects which have most definitely added blight...
As a corktown resident and someone who sees the positive economic impact of the stadium even in its current form I must say it is senseless and frustrated by the negative impact this will now have on my community... No matter what they put there, it will never be what the residents of this area will be in agreement with... It makes little to no sense to do this, but makes even littler sense to be done without getting more input from the conservancy and the community. Poor planning and No Vision!
"Forget it, Jake. It's Chinatown." :[[
Bing and Jackson will chalk this up as "progress" and will trot out promises[[lies) about future redevelopment. Another demo. contractor makes a buck. Check out the campaign contributions and connect the dots.
Perhaps it's a shame it's finally coming down, but face it: there is absolutely NO economic advantage to trying to preserve it.
Always follow the money.
Now that I think of it, I'm kinda GLAD the Tigers lost the Series in '06.
Mike Ilitch doesn't DESERVE a World Series victory.
May they come oh, so close again this year, but blow it, just so Mikey can feel the frustration of failure yet again.
I think I know why they lost in '06:
I now know why Leyland decided not to start Kenny Rogers in Game 5.
I now know why the Tigers pitchers made all those throwing errors against the Cards. ...
It was The Curse of Tiger Stadium.
The only way to break the curse?
I don't know.
But I hope Mike Ilitch NEVER figures it out!
Can you really blame Ilitch for moving the team to an infinitely more comfortable stadium? I mean, the Yankees left Yankee Stadium and it will be demolished soon... Why should Tiger Stadium stand?
I brought up the Brewster Projects back in April when the Council was voting to tear down the MCD. What I got for my trouble was being accused of defending a billionaire. What people didn't realize was that the same methods that the City applies to trying to mess over someone with over a billion dollars is going to work a whole lot easier on a non-profit organization that doesn't have a billionaire's resources. This isn't an "I told you so" this is a warning, with Bing in office as a 4 1/2 year lame duck, regular people in this city are about to get screwed over in a big way.
I'm not in "the know", but my suspicion is that when the other 75% of the stadium was demo'd last year, the city/demo company agreement probably had a clause where the demo company would give the city a break on the remainder of the demo if it was carried out by a certain date, and that might be why there was such a push to do it now.
That's just my conspiracy theory though... :-)
Sad to see her go...
Look, in 1999 the structural steel supporting the stands was turning rotten with rust and corrosion. To have rehabed it at that time would have cost nearly as much as a new ballpark anyway, so the moves that were made were practical and proper.
Besides, except for the memories, Tiger Stadium really was an ugly ballpark, especially since they put the orange seats in.
Get over it. It's history.
No, there are a number of us who don't/can't attend the citizen's district meetings who are glad to see this done. No, we've not been as vocal, and, in our own conversations, have opted to just let it play out, so we've not necessarily been heard. It would be interesting to get an accurate count of how many living in corktown wanted to see the museum plan move forward and how many wanted to see this wrapped up. Yes, I'm sure several of my "neighbors" on this board will be on the attack as a result of this posting, and I'm not going to get caught up in the emotional arguments flying around - just tired of hearing about what "everyone" wanted.
ray, your post is dripping with subjectivity. ...says you.
Well for the fans, there are many more restrooms, concession stands, much more parking, better sight lines, more seating options, more food options, and arguably a better "fan experience" [[giant scoreboard, restaurants, kids rides).
And for the people that actually matter the park really is infinitely more comfortable. The clubhouse is way larger, has flat screen TVs, bigger lockers, better showers and restrooms, a full batting cage, every technical aid neccessary to stay competitive. These are real advantages in luring free agents and better players. The team's staff has comfortable and convenient offices inside the park, allowing them more efficient work. I promise you the announcers [[outside Harwell) would tell you their workspace is much more comfortable. It is in general a huge upgrade over Tiger Stadium... which is the reason the Tigers and countless other organizations have built new parks.
You're right, Ray. There's absolutely no economic benefit to be derived from a rehabbed structure that pays taxes and generates profits for tenants. </sarcasm>
Structural steel doesn't rot. It can be repaired. Where did you obtain your cost estimate for structural repairs vis-a-vis a new ballpark?
Everyone's a fucking engineer anymore, aren't they?
I'm sure that DocTerry will be the first to complain when Wal-Mart is proposed for the corner or when it's still a weed-strewn lot of garbage-littered parking lot 5 years from now. You've got your wish. Enjoy it.
There is no way that Tiger Stadium would have been fully utilized without a Major League team playing there. It's removal should have been a precondition to the building of Comerica Park. I think the best we could hope for is to keep the actual ball field, put up some small aluminum bleachers, and have high-school or college teams play there.
Sad to see the old lady go, but the preservationists won't be lacking for other worthy opportunities.
I have the same problem with the Tiger Stadium controversy that I had with the casino proposals many years ago: they are distracting us from our real problems. We have a high crime rate, high taxes, poor schools, nonexistent services, we are hemorrhaging people and have been for going on sixty years, we have tens of thousands [[perhaps a hundred thousand! Nobody knows) of abandoned buildings, and yet we have time to fight over this: the demolition of the remaining one-sixth or so of a building that's been abandoned for nearly a decade.
The location - near the even-longer-abandoned MCS, and surrounded by the cornucopia of expressways that represent the decisions made in our parents' generation that has left Detroit as it is - does not lend itself to any kind of visitor-facing use. I've never really understood how that location was ever supposed to become anything, with a fraction of a baseball stadium standing in a corner, reminding us of how things once were but no longer are.
I like to preserve things, but I like to preserve things that are in some sense likely to have future utility, and it is usually a person who buys such a thing that is in a position to determine that. If the old ballpark had any economic future utility that made any sense, somebody would've bought it and given it a try. To ask Detroit to take care of it is silly; Detroit can't even take care of things that absolutely have to be taken care of.
Tiger Stadium's fate is sad but it's a symptom of a larger disease, not the disease itself. We ought to focus on the disease.
Another Detroit tradition - pave paradise to put up a parking lot..............after a decade of weeds and junk accumulate
Quote from Camilo Jose Vergara: The Tragedy is that Detroit has more of a downtown left to renew than other cities. Detroit just does not know what to do with this traditional fabric. Instead, piece by piece it demolishes itself and looks to big project plans- stadiums and gambling-to resuscitate its urban core.
Indeed! More than many other cities, we believe in "superblocks" and we so disbelieve in transit that we require a downtown store owner to try to provide parking, so we end up with a hodgepodge of superblock developments, which destroy the fabric of true urban connectivity, and surface parking, which is even more grim.
I would prefer to see a hundred locally-owned single-storefront shops on Gratiot and Grand River, with the City actively supporting them, than a single megacasino development.
But the City loves big projects, and loves very little else.
Yes, we all of those things. My question, however, is this: how does transforming Tiger Stadium into a vacant lot with overgrown weeds and uncollected trash do anything to solve any of those problems?Quote:
We have a high crime rate, high taxes, poor schools, nonexistent services, we are hemorrhaging people and have been for going on sixty years, we have tens of thousands [[perhaps a hundred thousand! Nobody knows) of abandoned buildings, and yet we have time to fight over this:
That's funny. I suspect that all of the people who visit the various bars, restaurants and other destinations near the former stadium would disagree with you that it's in a bad location.Quote:
The location - near the even-longer-abandoned MCS, and surrounded by the cornucopia of expressways that represent the decisions made in our parents' generation that has left Detroit as it is - does not lend itself to any kind of visitor-facing use.
I agree, in part. The thing is, the disease in question is this belief in the minds of many that demolition somehow equals progress; that something good will come because a historic landmark was demolished.Quote:
Tiger Stadium's fate is sad but it's a symptom of a larger disease, not the disease itself. We ought to focus on the disease.
Other cities around the United States and the rest of the world have learned that this is seldom true. Detroit, unfortunately, has been very slow in learning this important lesson.
In a year, I would guess that the corner will be vacant,
filled with trash, blight and no one will care, except those of us who live here and voted long ago on the
project that Zachary & Assoc. put together, under a
different mayor that somehow we foolishly thought had promise. I guess I'll never learn.
Ray1936, a hell of a lot of that rust, if not all of it, could have been eliminated with a simple sandblast/prime/paint. In fact, there was a lot of speculation that Monaghan and Illitch deliberately skimped on routine painting so that people would look at the rust and say, "Oh gee, looks like the stadium is falling apart."
So, I'm not necessarily stating that in the end it was viable to keep the stadium, but your distorted statements need to be rectified.
So THAT'S where City of Omaha got the idea.
They're building a $120-140 mil stadium in their CBD.
Reason- the historical ball park on the edge of town is inadequate and
oh- yes- the steel supports are rusting and unsafe.
But its not condemned- still needed until the new stadium is built and opened,
then it will instantly be unsafe to set foot in the old ball park.
Deja vu
Watched a story on World News Tonight earlier this evening about Fenway Park and how they've done a masterful job marketing the park to fans not just in Mass. but surrounding states as well. The President of the ownership company [[can't recall the name) said that they don't want fans to come to Fenway for "comfort", "arcade games", or "extensive food choices", they want fans there to WATCH the game!! Fans interviewed love Fenway just like many of us loved Tiger Stadium. Built the same year as Tiger Stadium, 1912, Fenway's still going strong even though its seating is something over 33,000 having had 450+ SELLOUTS! The story told of the same "problems" that people complained about Tiger Stadium, i.e. cramped seating, small concourses, minimal food selection, poor clubhouse accomodations, seats behind columns, etc. Souinds familar??? They make it work. What the F--?:mad:
Greentroit-Please read this post. This is what is missing from Comerica Park. All these other comforts you say FANS want are just a distraction for those who really want to watch the game. At Comerica, it's like a party with a ballgame being played in the background. If you go to truly watch the game, it's bad seating & a bunch of other "clutter" going on around you.
As far as a better clubhouse for the players, I can't begrudge them for wanting a better one, but to say they are the ones that really matter is something I have to disagree with you about. The players need the fans to generate revenue. If you doubt this, ask the Yankees if they're concerned with attendance this season.
You might be on to something Burnsie. Think about how buildings were constructed in the early part of the 20th century. They were built more sturdily & with better materials to give them longevity. IMO, there's no way that stadium would've rotted away from just neglect in only 20 yrs. I used to work near old Eloise. There were some pretty tough buildings that stood vacant for almost 30 yrs, but never started just falling down due to non use.
And as I pointed out in the Packard post, it's been vacant far longer, constantly catches on fire and spews toxic fumes into the air, and had more steel [[pre-scrappers at least) than Tiger Stadium, yet the city is in no rush to tear that down.
Photos from today up at www.buildingsofdetroit.com. Video of the broadcast booth getting torn into on our YouTube channel, www.youtube.com/user/BuildingsofDetroit. Got two videos up so far with a third uploading right now.
Older materials, in this case steel and concrete, are actually inferior to their modern counterparts.
Older buildings were built "more sturdily" because they [[sometimes) were overdesigned and overbuilt to be conservative; forces due to wind and seismic events, soil mechanics, and modern structural analysis were understood far less in 1912 than now. To imply that newer structures are unsafe is ignorant and alarmist. Any structure will deteriorate if it doesn't receive proper maintenance.
It's 11pm do you know where your tax $$ is going? It is going to further destroy Detroit, of course. More crack houses in Corktown, more hooker bars like Hoot's, what the storied sports bar at the corner of Michigan & Trumbull has become. Money that badly needs to be spent for Detroit public schools going towards demolition of a Ballpark that could have served as a place for children to learn the real history of Detroit and ports in Detroit.
Yeah, even learning the lessons of the ugly side of sports and Major League Baseball, because how else can we learn about the racism that prevailed then, and possibly learn from it? Now, the racism that pervades MLB is the scarfing up of all the young talented players from the Dominican Republic/Haiti by MLB. MLB scouts trawl that island, plucking up the young players for pennies for their first yr. contracts, draining all the talent & leaving that Island [[DR/Haiti) high and dry....not even one cent contributed to their ballparks or their schools with no $$ spent on these most impoverished countries in the Western Hemisphere, just snatching them up to play for rich pizza barons and such.
An opportunity lost for Detroit schoolchildren to learn the art of sportscasting from masters such as Ernie Harwell and the late George Kell, so that we maybe could have some people of color learn the trade instead of tired old know-it-all hacks, and rich white men attempting play-by-play. We had interactive exhibits planned, etc. Have the students learn how to possibly make a damn living in this most lucrative sports field, instead of a half-baked semi-education to get a job a McDonald's, but as we all know --- who the ef wants a McJob when you can make fat stacks on the corner with drugs, which, I believe was the operative word in the 60's, when all of our inner cities became flooded with heroin, just as African-Americans became radicalized, and then, in the 70's - to the 2000's with the free flow of cocaine, crystal meth [they call it "ice" in Hawaii, absolutely ruining Naive Hawaiian families there every day], ....sorry to get off track, but I think these drugs are allowed into our cities for a reason.
Meanwhile, we're giving billionaires tax credits for multi-media playgrounds, passing as ballparks, financed by public money, too, in many cases -- where the last thing these crowds are thinking about is what is going on on the playing field, the Game to them just an afterthought, an opportunity to entertain corporate clients.
I am devastated -- I just got back after a marathon day -- first at the Spirit of D with that red wings shirt on it [Hockey Town no more Tiger Town] and then .....standing with Beechcricker and a few others at the "rally" in the rain from 9:30 until the death sentence, around 11AM. My brother & I head immediately to our Ballpark, and Farrow didn't wait 5 minutes to start the claws, killing her off. Came home, tried to get some work done, and headed back for another 5 hrs. or so with the remaining time of what is left of our beautiful, majestic, Queen of Diamonds, our dreams vanquished in an instant by the Worst People in the World, the DEGC, and Judge Edwards.
Just had to vent, cry myself to sleep, get up tomorrow and do it again -- go spend a few more days with Her before She's in the landfill/dustbin of history.
Sherry Razor
Fan of Saving the playing field of Tiger Stadium, Fenway, Wrigley, and even the Oakland Coliseum and Fighter Against The Corporate Takeover Ruining Our National Pastime
Sherry, regardless of whatever level of agreement or disagreement I may have with some of your sentiments, I want you to know that I found your post to be very sincere and rather moving. Thank you.
Don't be a stranger, OK?
As I read the posts, I am sad that the end has come for the ballpark. Yet I am angered that other things in my mind are left to rot.As for the people who did there best to save the corner. Thanks. As for those who belive that the Stadium should have been torn down. I also see your point.Being almost 10 years ago when the final MLB game was played there and all of the stuff that has happened since.I can say for one thing I will never have to look at Tiger Stadium again and say " What are they gonna do with that?"
Reddog, it's so refreshing to hear from someone who is able and willing to look at both sides, and agree to disagree. And I am genuinely sorry that it did not turn out as you'd wished. I don't think any of us, including those who just want to see this done, are/were opposed to seeing the park-and-retail plan work.
And no, Novine, I won't be complaining about a Wal-mart or even a vacant lot - I'm looking forward to waking up to a different view one morning. If the trash from there doesn't blow onto my lawn like all the trash from the opening day and st. pat's day mayhem does, I'm sure some of us will go over periodically and clean it up.
I'd love to see stock car races here; even amateurs. It would be fun, profitable and go a long way to reinforcing Detroit's status as an automotive center.
Totally agree with Jackie and Trumpeteer. Comerica might be much more comfortable for the players, and might have more "amenities" for fans, but the one amenity I want is to be able to follow the action in the midst of other people who are following the action. That has not occurred in the majority of the many games I've attended at CoPa [[usually only the playoffs have such an atmosphere). The problem is that the designers and ownership did not have an appreciation of what made Tiger Stadium good for the fans, and they erected something completely different. Perhaps if it all went down 5-10 years later we would have built a replica like in NY.
RIP Tiger Stadium.
I'm sorry but I'm in the minority here. Tiger Stadium should have been torn down 9 years ago.
I understand that there are a number of people who have/had a love affair with Tiger Stadium but the park has been not in use for the last 10 years. People have stated that we need to preserve Detroit's history but really what can anyone do with a pre-WW1 baseball stadium? The Conservancy have worked for the last 22 years to keep Tiger Stadium in use. 10 years of that 22, the stadium sat empty and not in use and yet no money was brought to the table. The Conservancy had deadlines extended and still could not deliver and people are surprised the city is tearing down the rest.
I loved driving by Tiger Stadium. I was sad that the Tigers were going leave the Corner at the end of the 99 season, but life goes on. The stadium should have been knocked down back in 2000. I remember how the "Red Barn" on Grand River stood empty for years before the city decided that it was time. It is time now......
look, there's a lot of misinformation here. the conservancy only worked on this project for a little over three years. it's a shame they couldn't distinguish themselves from previous efforts [[and that's nothing against previous efforts). the real travesty is that the powers that be and the community never formed a real partnership to forward the city. in my opinion, the city never really had any intent to see the conservancy's plan through.
here's an example of something that can be done when politics and grassroots advocacy work together to FORWARD the city and BUILD UPON the existing assets of the city. The High Line effort took 10 years and required convincing the powers that be that demolition was dumb.
Detroit loses out again...a figment of status quo leadership more than anything else. Bing's folks resemble the folks that have been running things for years. go figure!
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/09/ar...e-RO.html?_r=1
I wrote this last year when the wrecking ball first started to swing on the old gal and thought I'd share it with those who care.
Goodbye Old Girl
I’m tired and old, it’s time to say bye,
My house was your home, yes even for Ty.
When Babe set foot on my tall green bright grass
I told him okay I’ll give you a pass
I’ve been through a lot they come and they go.
But grieve me not friends I’m no longer the show
There’s Harry and Cochrane and Prince Hal and Charley
There were so many laughs boy did Cash like to party.
They had Murder’s Row but we had our Hank
And our home grown son Willie was built like a tank
Tram and Sweet Lou each were just like a son
As Ernie would say “2 for the price of one”.
My neighborhood burned back in 67’
That 68’ team was a gift down from heaven,
My shoulders are slumped and I’ll soon be debris
But weep not dear friends, no weep not for me.
Al Kaline first class, he was born with a touch
Kirk though rambunctious but tough in the clutch
That 84’ team sure did have swagger
But the Padres learned fast when we gave them the dagger
From Bennett to Navin to Briggs then into Tiger
My name may have changed but my roof just got higher.
I’ve opened my home to friend and to foe
But now it’s my time, it’s my time to go.
My final decree as my walls start to crumble
May a smile cross your face when you think of Michigan and Trumbull.
How about we use public money to tear down your house, then? There are plenty of other houses in the city.
How much money did DEGC raise for demolition? Oh, that's right: NONE. They're using your tax dollars, despite the City's struggles to balance its budget from year-to-year.
Tear down my house!!!! Last time I checked, there is someone human occupying the house. What's left of Tiger Stadium is being occupied by the rats and the pigeons. Not a good comparsion. Try again....
Since you wanted to quote me, let me explain a bit deeper for you.
If the Old Tiger Stadium Conservancy had the money, then the city would not be tearing down the stadium now but the OTSC didn't show the city the green and here we are.
I end this with some very famous words: Money talks, Bull$hit walks.
ROBOT BOB. i just posted something about a more refined and progressive PROCESS that our more advanced counterparts saw to fruition in NYC that we could have gleaned something from. Conservancy folks had a lot of day-to-day, city-you-don't-have-to-pay-for-monthly-security/maintenance money in the bank, $4 million in federal talking money and tens of millions of if-you-knock-it-down-idiot-you-cannot-utilize-it in state and federal tax credits that are the way of the wind by now. there was juice in the hopper and more on its way. yes, there was a deficit as of the DEGC deadline. however, the deadline was a sham, hypocritical and not really the point. all we get out of this is a lot of nothing. it's embarrassing for the city.
Ghettopalmetto, the argument can last forever. Just be glad R8RBOB and kraig are not in powerful decision-making positions. They are part of the same visionless generation that run this city and will need to die off before major positive change takes place in this city.
Here is the DEGC supporting their decision to tear down the stadium. Didn’t I read yesterday or hear on the radio on Friday that the DEGC said they had potential developers interested I the site? And the lies continue.
http://www.detnews.com/article/20090...etroit-Council
Well, there were people who *wanted* to occupy the old Tiger Stadium, but a PRIVATE corporation decided to use PUBLIC money to tear down a PUBLICLY-OWNED edifice. Don't the people who live in the neighborhood have any say as to what happens in their neighborhood?
Who benefits? The demolition contractors, as always.
If money talks and bullshit walks, then the City of Detroit and the DEGC should have been stranded somewhere along the Ohio Turnpike about ten years ago. Glad to see Detroit is busy tackling the major problems, though.
So now I'm visionless because I don't want the City to spend taxpayer money to demolish a house that's not abandoned? I see that you've decided to step over that sublime line as well. Look, everyone knows that the OTSC had the deck stacked against them. But, when you're in a situation where someone is looking to capitalize on the first thing that you do wrong, you can't afford to do anything wrong. And if you do, you should take the steps to correct things if the other party hasn't capitalized on it. The OTSC blew that, big time. They also didn't take advantage of having a Mayor that was sympathetic to their cause. If you want to talk about visionless, talk to them.
My friend you are sounding a bit melodramatic. First off, I am for restoring old buildings. I would love to see the old mixed in with the new. I would love for Detroit to be like Chicago in having their glass and steel mingle with the brick and mortar. That said, there isn't much you can do with a turn of the century baseball stadium except play baseball there.
Detroit have many buildings that can be preserved and restored but that takes a lot of money and people who are interested in Detroit. Tiger Stadium is not one of those buildings. Name me one stadium in this country that was successful transformed from sport venue to retail property or an living environment? From the Kingdome to Boston Garden, arenas and stadiums has been knocked down or imploded because there is no other purpose for them. If there was a purpose for Tiger Stadium, would we really be throwing barbs at each other? If Chicago could knock down old Cominsky and Pittsburgh could implode Three Rivers and Atlanta could implode Fulton County Stadium and New York could knock down both Yankee and Shea Stadium then Tiger Stadium could fall too because in the end, it is just a stadium.
@Jackie and @Trumpeteer...
Jackie, I am a hardcore baseball fan. Like you, when I go to Tiger's games I want to focus on the action. But I don't see how Comerica has extra "clutter," and especially disagree with your point on bad seating. Comerica's sightlines are far better than anything Tiger Stadium offered. It was engineered to provide each seat with a great view. I've sat just about everywhere in the park and my experiences support this. As far as the extra clutter, sure. There is music in between batters and there's a giant scoreboard with racing donuts once a game. But when the game is going on, its all baseball. I don't see how Comerica takes away from the game. And the extra money Ilitch has made from the changes have allowed for a competitive team. Would you rather field a team with players like Cabrera, Ordonez, Granderson, Verlander, etc... Or keep paying Bobby Higginson and Robert Fick $10M to do nothing. I guarantee that Pudge never comes to Detroit [[and turns the franchise around) if they still play in Tiger Stadium.
@ Trumpeteer:
I have many, many friends in Boston [[I used to live there). And yes, Fenway has a nostalgiac air about it. It has to do with the charms of the Green Monster and Pesky Pole, etc. But many of those friends HATE Fenway. They hate the enormous lines for the bathroom, the 10 inch wide seats that cost $150 a piece, and the two hundred person line for a beer. I promise you that if a totally new stadium built as a replica of Fenway was offered to Red Sox fans they would jump immediately. I'm sure whatever documentary you watched put the slant they wanted on it, but those fans want a modern park.
What's the funding source for the demolition???
Since OTSC was paying the money for maintenance of Tiger Stadium, it seems they had more money than the ever-broke City of Detroit. The difference is that one of the entities had an actual plan to have that property generate revenue and economic development. Hint: It wasn't the Demolition Embezzlement and Graft Corporation
The City of Detroit hasn't had to pay for any demolition concerning the remainder of the stadium [[i.e. the portion that was proposed by OTSC to be redeveloped) because the demolition contractor has yet to send an invoice. Unless, of course, the contractor was silly enough to sign a contract stating they would work strictly for the scrap value of the steel.
ghettopalmetto...
Actually because the price of steel has dropped considerably since the initial demolition was halted, the city now owes the contractors about $400,000. And because the "ever-broke City of Detroit" was smart enough to hold the OTSC accountable for their constant pleas to wait, the OTSC will have to pay $300,000 of that. So in a way, the city is paying $100,000 for demolition.
And in an ironic turn, the Old Tiger Stadium Conserancy is paying $300,000 to demolish Tiger Stadium.
Can someone involved with OTSC comment? I find it implausible that:
1) a contractor would sign a contract that paid an indeterminate amount of money, based strictly on final quantities of steel demolished and the price at which scrap steel is selling on an undetermined day
and 2) that the OTSC would agree, in writing, to pay for any cost overruns in demolition.
You do know, that if this is in fact the case, DEGC is a de facto monster with all the power and none of the responsibility. Hope you like living on the prairie.
Yet another hole in the sham argument of the DEGC... "scrap prices have dropped... we need to demolish now before they drop more!" BS. the DEGC knows damn well that if they had waited, the price of scrap would have risen, and demolition would have been free again. Get rid of the liars please. To borrow a line from the CLASH "I'm so bored with the DEGC"
Here's a link to a column in Sports Illustrated, scroll to the last paragraph:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200....ap/index.html
$400 Large doesn't sound too "free" to me!
Let's not forget any opportunity costs associated with the tax revenues not realized by the redevelopment, or the concomitant drop in property values in the surrounding area, now that they have a nice, enormous, vacant lot to enjoy.
I am not with the OTSC, but I know some of the details. The OTSC was at the mercy of a bully, the DEGC. If the OTSC wanted to play ball, they had to give the DEGC whatever they wanted. The DEGC would place random demands... Obviously, it is now apparent that in March, the DEGC was ready the AXE the plan, but they led the OTSC on and milked them for more money, lied to the public, and lied to the OTSC.
"If they had waited, the price of scrap would have risen". Who told you that? Madoff.
Come on Andy, I understand that this is an emotional issue for you, but, Damn!!!!
By the way, what lie did they tell to the OTSC? If you don't make your payment, we're going to tear it down?
Playing devil's advocate here......what if OTSC had gone to the DEGC and instead of giving them promises of coming up with the money instead threw the $33.4 million that was suggested on the desk of George Jackson. Do you think he and the DEGC would have killed the deal after seeing 33 million at close range?
You do realize that virtually no development project works like that.... The Book Cad took 10 years and 19 layers of financing to do.... For a project such as the OTSC was proposing it would have taken quite a bit as well... The main thing it takes to secure neccesary funding is time which the DEGC was not willing to give...
Trust me, my friend I know things don't work that way. Remember I started my statement with a "what if"
I am not a supporter of the DEGC. It is a bunch of bureaucrats. As for the OTSC, I give them credit. They were driven to save Tiger Stadium because of past memories. Tiger Stadium was great in "ITS" day but its best days have long since passed. If the Tigers had the same love for Tiger Stadium as the OTSC then they would still be playing there but that was not the case.
You mean like the proposed "new" Fenway Park that was scuttled in 2005???
Yeah, Fenway sucks so bad that people pay $150 a seat to watch a ballgame.
Comerica Park has all the atmosphere of a suburban shopping mall food court. You pay $40 for a ticket, and even if you're six feet tall, all you can see is the back of the bald head in front of you. If you're in the upper deck, take an oxygen mask, climbing rope, and crampons [[just in case).
But hey! Comerica has a Ferris wheel! And cartoony tigers! And there's a great parking lot right next to the ballpark so you don't have to worry about the least bit of interaction with your surroundings.