Well put, Mayor Bing.
http://www.freep.com/article/2013030...text|FRONTPAGE
Well put, Mayor Bing.
http://www.freep.com/article/2013030...text|FRONTPAGE
See Ya City Council.....you will be EFM's 1st move in eliminating waste. Good luck finding work in the public sector [[LMAO)!
Dammit, I just want it to begin at this point.
Yes, I understand how it hasn't worked anywhere else, but i would hope that Detroit's "visibility' on the world's stage may make the end result a bit different.
One can hope right.......?
I am very confused as to how this hasn't worked anywhere else. Examples;Quote:
Originally Posted by Islandman
Pontiac: Police response times have gone from 76 minute average to just over 9 minutes. Fire services now partner with Waterford. Downtown has seen a dramatic increase in redevelopment. Leased out excess space at water facility to erase long term debt obligations, freeing city taxes to pay for services not debt.
Flint: Balanced city budget while adding to police and fire department thanks to a 6 mill ballot proposal. Privatized management of previously closed and abandoned golf courses. Privatized trash collection to save city $1 million annually and add recycling. Created OPRA redevelopment district for a dozen downtown properties. Removed Genesee Towers [[major liability) from the city's books and gave it to a redevelopment firm. Rewrote 2 union contracts and negotiated 3 more to achieve cost reducations. Balanced the city's lighting and trash funds with fee changes. Moved pension liability from the city to the state.
Any one of these things would be seen as major, yet EMs have done them all in about 2 years. I will never understand this idea that EMs are an utter failure.
I agree with you Flintoid, I should say that the perception is not positive.
I will say that the last time I went to Pontiac for a show at Crofoot, downtown looked like a ghost town [[like downtown Detroit used to look).
Your facts are quite compelling, and should be noted. Thanks!
Just making sure we take the facts into account :) I'm hopeful that we can see the same successes in Detroit. Perhaps then the perception will change.
One of the biggest problems we have today is that we are increasingly being sheltered from information except from our friends and associates. And they often think like we do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Flintoid
I see lots of success with EFMs. But clearly others don't. Who's wrong? Would that we have a strong, independent press who everyone believed. But instead we have Fox News on one side, and BAM on the other. If you're on Obama's mailing list, you're getting information about only the failures of charter schools. If you're on Rush Limbaugh's list, you're hearing about pension abuse.
One thing I like about this forum is that it exposes me to people who DON'T agree with me. Makes me question myself.
Back to Flintoid's post: He writes " Rewrote 2 union contracts and negotiated 3 more to achieve cost reductions" I'll bet that the AFSCME union newsletter doesn't write much about the successed in Flint. And a lot about forced wages reductions.
One thing I like about this forum is that it exposes me to people who DON'T agree with me.
I agree.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smirnoff
they already work in the public sector.....
Yeah, it's important to really understand what are reasonable expectations on this. I expect things to get worse before they get better....but that's not a bad thing, it's normal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Islandman
When an addict get cut off of their substance, it doesn't feel better. It feels worse. In fact, it feels like hell. Sometimes the hell is soooo bad that the only way to get through it is to take a vacation from the responsibilities of your life just so you can handle how hard it is.
And sometimes, it feels so bad, that you have to check yourself in somewhere where they will prevent you from accessing your drug long enough to where it starts to feel better, then you can rebuild from there.
Let's not kid ourselves. This will be painful. But as long as there is a viable long-term plan, this is fine. It will feel worse even as the numbers start to get better.
Then once the numbers are good enough, we can finally re-build.
Pontiac's EFM also outsourced the water department to a firm that was under indictment for violating the Clean Water Act, so ... you have to look at that side too.
Yes. We do. And when those things happen, they need to be addressed. But those problems don't have a causal relationship to the EFM. And I think it's reasonable for citizens of Pontiac [[and of the state, for that matter) to demand resolution to that question.Quote:
Originally Posted by Detroitnerd
If and when they happen here in Detroit, I will be on board with fighting those decisions as well. But one doesn't equal the other, and it's reasonable that citizens demand accountability regardless of who is making the decisions.
Where I see the real problems here are when people's imaginations conflict with reality. For example, the purpose of city government is not to provide jobs. It's to perform services. I'm interested to see if that debate comes to the surface over the next 6 months.
Right. No causal relationship there. EFM is given broad powers with no democratic oversight or control, awards contract to indicted company, and the good people of Pontiac can demand ... recall? Not elect him? Fire him? How do you fight the decisions of a person who isn't elected, and is given broad, unilateral power?Quote:
Originally Posted by corktownyuppie
Yep.Quote:
Originally Posted by Detroitnerd
CTY
Anti-democratic forces always say, "Hey, we'd LOVE to have democracy. But there are certain preconditions to democracy."
That is, frankly, bullshit.
Democracy holds that men possess inalienable rights, and that when government is destructive to their rights, the people have the right to abolish that government.
If that makes a few bondholders squeak, so much the better for it.
Dennis The Constitutional PeasantQuote:
Originally Posted by Detroitnerd
Oh dear. Did I just associate Sneaky Snyder with a watery tart? :eek:Quote:
Strange women lying in ponds, distributing swords is no basis for a system of government.... You can't expect to wield supreme executive power just because some watery tart threw a sword at you.
Thanks for the laugh, Jimaz. "Bloody peasant!" XD
I'm confused. There were several articles published online today between the Freep and Detnews that indicated that Bing was tentatively onboard with the Council's 11th hour counter-proposal. Then by this evening i'm hearing on WWJ that all of a sudden Bing is openly saying to just let it go. Very bizarre day.
Bing and the Clowncil don't don't agree. This surprises you?
Bing was on board with disputing the facts that led the advisory board to recommend a financial emergency. He even said that he believed that an EM was unnecessary and the wrong decision. But he stopped short of stating that he would fight the decision with due process.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hypestyles
Those are not inconsistent positions. There's a difference between disagreeing with the decision and fighting it all kicking and screaming all the way to the Supreme Court. For example, would it be worth tying up everything in court all the way to Washington for the next 24-36 months, paralyzed to do anything at all while the city runs out of money?
While I'm totally on board with the idea of Chapter 9 bankruptcy, remember that you can make a very good case that it won't be any better on the city. In fact, the time and money spent in court might actually make things worse.
i have to say first and for-most that i do not like Snyder, but I also don't know if I do not like him more than I don't like the City-Clowncil. for me it is a lesser of two evils.
Would someone explain to me why the EFM laws are anti-demoractic. I just don't see it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Detroitnerd
What are the inalienable rights that are being destroyed?
When you drive 70mph, you lose your right to a driver's license. When you vote leaders who spend more than you have, you lose the right to control your pocketbook.
Or a related question, if EFM is anti-democractic, is bankruptcy also anti-democratic? If not, why not?
[[This just seems like a canard to me. Wrapping bad behavior with the flag to make it seem patriotic.)
I agree that a EM is needed , I believe in democracy and peoples rights to vote, however the "people" haven't always got it right and in this city, the people voting haven't gotten it right in a very long time and it shows , they are kidding themselves .These are the same "people" that voted for Kwame ,twice ! and would probably vote for him again if he were to run and we all know this is true.
When a city has been run so poorly ,for so long ,reasonable adults need to take over and its clear that the people running the city aren't up to it .They
have shown this time and time again and have NO plan to really fix what is wrong.
They have had years to address and fix the problems and NEVER have, they ONLY reacted when they were FORCED ! The City council keeps saying "we can fix this" and are" willing to work with the state" , yeah ONLY when it's the 11th hour.
They would keep on doing the same thing over and over for another 40 years , they are only interested in keeping their power and jobs and not on really helping the city and its citizens .
I'm all for democracy , but when a city looses more than half of it citizens ,that speaks volumes , people are speaking and leaving in droves , what aren't they [[city leaders) getting ?
Most rational , reasonable, people that had the means to, have left .
The few, 600,000 ,after 1.5 MILLION a) care for the city b) are coming to the city , c) or are left here and can't leave.
More than half the population have left the city ! and they still don't get it ?
Detroit [[city leaders) are FINALLY having to face the music and they don't like it .
Money or lack of money gets ones attention REAL fast . I guess we have your attention now city council ?
i heard bing on the radio, from what he said i thought he was going to fight the EM.
The city council is totally done for. This will be the end of plantation politics and the beginning of Snyder Politics in the City of Detroit.