Duggan Fires DDOT Chief - Declares Population Will Be Growing By Next Election 2017

Just heard this on WDET. Duggan seems to have grabbed the bull by the horns, verbally at least, declaring that change is already happening. He touted the success in plowing the snow from all Detroit streets and implementing 24 hour garbage pickup/catch up as his evidence.

Saying he was appalled by seeing crowded bus stops caused by buses running two hours late on his drive in to work, he has fired the DDOT chief.

He is asking Detroiters for a six month honeymoon, urging them to stick it out and not move away. He also declared that the city's population will be growing by the time of the next mayoral election.

He definitely hit the ground running. What will happen when he hits the many walls and political land mines out there? Good luck Mike.

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Originally Posted by Lowell

Just heard this on WDET. Duggan seems to have grabbed the bull by the horns, verbally at least, declaring that change is already happening. He touted the success in plowing the snow from all Detroit streets and implementing 24 hour garbage pickup/catch up as his evidence.

Saying he was appalled by seeing crowded bus stops caused by buses running two hours late on his drive in to work, he has fired the DDOT chief.

He is asking Detroiters for a six month honeymoon, urging them to stick it out and not move away. He also declared that the city's population will be growing by the time of the next mayoral election.

He definitely hit the ground running. What will happen when he hits the many walls and political land mines out there? Good luck Mike.

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I heard this story on NPR yesterday and had the same exact thoughts. Where I live, the main streets always were more or less plowed within a reasonable time frame. The less populated side streets took forever, if ever @ all. IV was a boiler plate sheet of ice when I drove through it. If I owned a home there, and paid the taxes on it those people pay, I'd be ticked. As far as DDOT goes, MD's actions seemed a bit radical to me. How much of the transportation issues were actually the DDOT's chief's fault? It seems to me some analysis should have been done instead of a public beheading. It'll be interesting to see how MD and his hand picked crew play out in the coming months. I was never totally sold on him, but he did seem to be the lesser of the 4 evils.

I can't really comment much about the DDOT situation, but regarding the snow, I was impressed that he even had a plan. He was talking about what they were going to do on Friday before the storm hit. I can't remember a Detroit mayor taking to the airwaves with their snow storm plan ahead of the storm in the past.

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Originally Posted by jackie5275

I can't really comment much about the DDOT situation, but regarding the snow, I was impressed that he even had a plan. He was talking about what they were going to do on Friday before the storm hit. I can't remember a Detroit mayor taking to the airwaves with their snow storm plan ahead of the storm in the past.

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That's how it use to be in Detroit when I was growing up in the 60's and early to mid 70's. The snow was always plowed, until the crooks slowly started emptying the cookie jar.

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Originally Posted by jackie5275

I can't really comment much about the DDOT situation, but regarding the snow, I was impressed that he even had a plan. He was talking about what they were going to do on Friday before the storm hit. I can't remember a Detroit mayor taking to the airwaves with their snow storm plan ahead of the storm in the past.

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Communications IS commendable, but was it necessary or even out of the ordinary? My point was, where I live, I really didn't notice any big change from what has happened in the past after a big snowfall. MD made it sound like nothing was in place and he orchestrated it all. Maybe people in other parts of Detroit have a different opinion.

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Originally Posted by Cincinnati_Kid

That's how it use to be in Detroit when I was growing up in the 60's and early to mid 70's. The snow was always plowed, until the crooks slowly started emptying the cookie jar.

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As a resident of Detroit since 1968, I don't remember the City plowing residential streets until the mid 1990's under the Archer administration. Archer acquiesced after a media firestorm ensued when then DPS super Eddie Green closed schools because students couldn't get there because roads and sidewalks were impassable. Green urged students to use their snow day to shovel and help out their neighbors. Prior to this, block clubs would hire private contractors for their snow removal as we did on Clements Street.

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Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

Communications IS commendable, but was it necessary or even out of the ordinary? My point was, where I live, I really didn't notice any big change from what has happened in the past after a big snowfall. MD made it sound like nothing was in place and he orchestrated it all. Maybe people in other parts of Detroit have a different opinion.

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He is communicating, and telling the citizens of his city what his game plan is. Bing never did that. Kilpatrick never did that. This is an improvement. The results might be the same, or even slightly better, but he is communicating, and that is a huge step ahead of Dave "Walking Corpse" Bing and convicted racketeer Kwame Kilpatrick.

Also I have a feeling that the firing of the DDOT chief is a decent start because maybe he can get someone in there who is willing to bust arse to figure out how to best use limited resources. At least MD is doing SOMETHING, can you name anything Dave Bing did in the past year?

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Originally Posted by Lowell

Just heard this on WDET. Duggan seems to have grabbed the bull by the horns, verbally at least, declaring that change is already happening. He touted the success in plowing the snow from all Detroit streets and implementing 24 hour garbage pickup/catch up as his evidence.

Saying he was appalled by seeing crowded bus stops caused by buses running two hours late on his drive in to work, he has fired the DDOT chief.

He is asking Detroiters for a six month honeymoon, urging them to stick it out and not move away. He also declared that the city's population will be growing by the time of the next mayoral election.

He definitely hit the ground running. What will happen when he hits the many walls and political land mines out there? Good luck Mike.

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The best thing about his situation is the Emergency Manager. Most individuals would have fought back, but Duggan has forged a relationship out of necessity. By doing this, many of the walls he stands to hit, he can go to Orr and he can approve changes without having to get clowncil approval. Orr has very broad and substantial powers, and Duggan certainly sees this as an advantage, which is why he is working with Orr while he is here. The goal is not for Orr to be here, but as long as he is, he can be a major asset to breaking down the barriers of city government that got in the way and put the city in this predicament in the first place.

It may pose a bigger problem down the road when Orr leaves, but the hope is, that many of those barriers are exposed and eliminated while he is here.

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Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

As far as DDOT goes, MD's actions seemed a bit radical to me. How much of the transportation issues were actually the DDOT's chief's fault?

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I'd be willing to bet he had some inside insight here.

City officials, appointees, and hangers-on have been crying broke and lack of resources as excuses for as long as I can remember. DDOT has been basically non-functioning for several years now, despite alleged right-sizing through cutting routes and services. As in virtually ever situation in real life the buck has to stop with someone instead just giving someone's auntie or cousin a pass for "We're doing the best we can."

I'm equally glad the ball-busting has finally been brought to the offices instead of the rank-and-file workers.

I missed our recycling day because it was actually on time. I have had zero issues cruising around the city. My trash was picked up. It's wildly early, but keep it up, Mr. Mayor. I will be here for at least 6 months.

It's also a stark contrast in intelligence and effectiveness to the same old alleged allies of the people who are telling the newspapers to go to hell.

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Originally Posted by poobert

I'd be willing to bet he had some inside insight here.

City officials, appointees, and hangers-on have been crying broke and lack of resources as excuses for as long as I can remember. DDOT has been basically non-functioning for several years now, despite alleged right-sizing through cutting routes and services. As in virtually ever situation in real life the buck has to stop with someone instead just giving someone's auntie or cousin a pass for "We're doing the best we can."

I'm equally glad the ball-busting has finally been brought to the offices instead of the rank-and-file workers.

I missed our recycling day because it was actually on time. I have had zero issues cruising around the city. My trash was picked up. It's wildly early, but keep it up, Mr. Mayor. I will be here for at least 6 months.

It's also a stark contrast in intelligence and effectiveness to the same old alleged allies of the people who are telling the newspapers to go to hell.

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The current DDOT chief was brought in by Orr like 5 months ago to overhaul the system. This wasn't some CAYMAC gadfly. He last ran Seattle's system.

I think this is an incredibly rash move and totally without merit.

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Toliver acknowledges service was behind schedule Monday; only about 40 percent of the scheduled drivers made it into work because of the inclement weather, he said.

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What exactly does Duggan think firing the head of DDOT will do to rectify that?

Seems to me he was making serious progress:

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Toliver said he and his seven-member DDOT management team are making strides toward improving DDOT safety and service. They've begun the first-phase installation of 50 bus cameras, to be completed by the end of January, and will issue a bid request to companies for the installation of 250 more in the remaining buses to be completed by the spring.
As far as service goes: "We don't have enough buses running compared to what we have promised," Toliver said.
During the afternoon rush-hour, Toliver said DDOT must have 227 of its 300 buses in service. They are averaging 197, up 20 from when he took over nearly five months ago.
An average of 100 buses are sidelined each day for maintenance issues.
"We're moving fast and hard to change this," Toliver said.
Toliver currently lives in Detroit, where he hopes to remain, "at least" until his contract expires.

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Originally Posted by motz

He is communicating, and telling the citizens of his city what his game plan is. Bing never did that. Kilpatrick never did that. This is an improvement. The results might be the same, or even slightly better, but he is communicating, and that is a huge step ahead of Dave "Walking Corpse" Bing and convicted racketeer Kwame Kilpatrick.

Also I have a feeling that the firing of the DDOT chief is a decent start because maybe he can get someone in there who is willing to bust arse to figure out how to best use limited resources. At least MD is doing SOMETHING, can you name anything Dave Bing did in the past year?

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He proclaimed May 21st-May 27th, 2013, Detroit Techno Week.

Whatever your feelings about Duggan, he will hold his subordinates to a very high standard.

My brother-in-law was a midlevel mgr. at DMC while Duggan was there... and he was very tough on his managers to show results. They didn't much care for him. However, no results? Buh-bye....

Detroit has waited long enough for excuses... time for action....

Whatever the merits [[or lack thereof) in this decision... Duggan fired a warning shot for all of the people in City Government... show no results? He'll show you the door...

Had a nice chat with a fellow who stepped into Gratiot this morning, looking for the bus. I was headed to 9 Mile, so I offered him a ride as far as he was going up to there. He accepted, thus the opportunity for said nice chat.

He said D-DOT had been so bad this year, but when I told him the Mayor had fired the head of it this morning, he smiled. Said too many folks from previous administrations had simply been allowed to keep their jobs, no matter how bad they were at them.

When I asked if he had bad experiences with the drivers, he said yes...it had gotten much worse this past year...they'd gotten hostile for some reason. The problems with D-DOT are much deeper than this damn snow.

Let's hope this change will affect their overall moods.

Good on Duggan...

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Originally Posted by Gistok

Whatever the merits [[or lack thereof) in this decision... Duggan fired a warning shot for all of the people in City Government... show no results? He'll show you the door...

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all well and good. Just questioning the axing of someone on the turn around job for less than 6 months and during a once a generation storm. Should Duggan be fired if he hasn't rectified all of detroit's problems in 6 months?

I mean there is a difference between lighting some fires under some asses and being a knee jerk reactionary...

It does appear that Mr. Toliver was making progress on some fronts, but having said that, it is completely routine for a new mayor to want to choose his own department heads. Mayor Duggan will want to bring in someone who, in his estimation, will be able to rapidly attack the biggest problems DDOT faces. Given the amount of money available to DDOT, which admittedly isn't nearly enough, it could be doing much better than it is doing.

DDOT needs to accomplish several things. Roughly in order of importance:
1. Get as many of the broken-down buses repaired as possible, in order to have 227 available for service every single weekday without exception. As a practical matter this means you need to have 250-260 expected to be operational, so you have spares to put in mid-day when breakdowns happen.
2. Put in a system of preventive maintenance to get off of the roller coaster envisioned in problem 1.
3. Put together a contract with the employees so that it becomes actually somewhat predictable as to how many people will show up for work on any given day.
4. Rehire line supervisors. [[Bus systems do not run themselves.)
5. Get more reliable fareboxes so you can actually collect all the money the riders are supposed to be paying.
6. Restructure the routes completely, in coordination with SMART, M1 and the RTA, so the routes reflect the reality of the situation of 2014 [[where and when people work, live, go to school, go to the doctor, etc.) rather than keeping the route structure of 1927 and just cutting back a bit every year.

Of these, the first five could be accomplished very quickly; the sixth will take more time. It will be interesting, once we see who the mayor has hired, what that person's stated priorities are.

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Originally Posted by professorscott

It does appear that Mr. Toliver was making progress on some fronts, but having said that, it is completely routine for a new mayor to want to choose his own department heads
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It will be interesting, once we see who the mayor has hired, what that person's stated priorities are.

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Agreed... but that isn't what he did. He fired the guy for cause.... and that cause was for not having the buses running on time even though 40% of the drivers couldn't actually get into work to drive them.

it will be interesting to see what Wayne County or DMC crony gets appointed over the guy who was brought in less than 6 months ago as a specialist who spent a career running transit systems all over the country.

I'm waiting to form my opinion on this move. As was said, this guy has been there for 5 months only. I heard on the WDET report that Duggan already had a replacement lined up. So, if this is only about getting to appoint your own department heads, the new guy/gal better have awfully good credentials. Otherwise, change for the sake of change doesn't impress me.

In fact, it reminds me of one the early moves Archer did that began to turn my opinion against him. Archer dropped the ball on Devil's night his first year in office and the number of fires increased for the first time in several years. With great fanfare, he made some fire department lieutenant the scapegoat and fired him.

I'd also be curious to know how Orr feels about Duggan removing a guy Orr appointed.

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Originally Posted by bailey

The current DDOT chief was brought in by Orr like 5 months ago to overhaul the system. This wasn't some CAYMAC gadfly. He last ran Seattle's system.

I think this is an incredibly rash move and totally without merit.


What exactly does Duggan think firing the head of DDOT will do to rectify that?

Seems to me he was making serious progress:

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When you are the Mayor, you get to make these decisions. I don't know if Toliver was making progress or not. But I don't care. We didn't elect Toliver, we elected Duggan.

Duggan made a decision. Why? We don't know. So defending Toliver is besides the point. Our Mayor has a job to do. Let him do it without constant criticism.

If Duggan fails, then vote him out of office.

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Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

When you are the Mayor, you get to make these decisions. I don't know if Toliver was making progress or not. But I don't care. We didn't elect Toliver, we elected Duggan.

Duggan made a decision. Why? We don't know. So defending Toliver is besides the point. Our Mayor has a job to do. Let him do it without constant criticism.

If Duggan fails, then vote him out of office.

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Just like Kilpatrick; -$84 million later.

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Originally Posted by professorscott

It does appear that Mr. Toliver was making progress on some fronts,

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I'd like to know what fronts.
Increased violent incidents on buses? Check
More disruptions in service? Check
Worse relationship with DDOT drivers? Check

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Originally Posted by rb336

I'd like to know what fronts.
Increased violent incidents on buses? Check
More disruptions in service? Check
Worse relationship with DDOT drivers? Check

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I had my worst D-DOT driver experience last year.

Didn't know of the recent dude's installation, this is all starting to make some sense.

Hope Duggan doesn't come after me now for the lost fare.

Cheers!

It does not surprise me. I have worked with him in the past. He is a pitbull.

YAY!!!

Now that's action from Mayor Duggan. I dig his works. He's doing for Detroiters not for personal gain. He's getting rid of some bad apples just like he did when he was Wayne County Prosecutor, CEO of DMC and running the SMART bus system.

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Originally Posted by DetroitPlanner

He is a pitbull.

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Yup, and some people won't like the harshness of it, but you can't fix Detroit without making some very harsh and drastic changes.

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Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

When you are the Mayor, you get to make these decisions. I don't know if Toliver was making progress or not. But I don't care. We didn't elect Toliver, we elected Duggan.

Duggan made a decision. Why? We don't know. So defending Toliver is besides the point. Our Mayor has a job to do. Let him do it without constant criticism.

If Duggan fails, then vote him out of office.

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'cuse me but you told me not to long ago that you lived in Hamtramck -- and now you claim you voted for Duggan?

Typical.

So, the new director starts next week. From Crain's:

John Roach, Mayor Mike Duggan's communications director, said the new DDOT director is from out of state and could be named publicly this week. The director is expected to start work by Jan. 15.

What perplexes me is how Duggan says he decided to do this after seeing folks standing out in the snow yesterday. OK, fine. But you already have somebody from out of state lined up? I suspect he wanted to do this from the get go, which is also fine, but why make it all based the poor performance in the weather this week? We all know D-DOT has been a mess for a long time. You don't need to use a snow storm to blame it on.

I thought this was also curious:

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Paul Toliver, an MV Transportation employee who has been running DDOT since September, will report to the new director for the duration of MV's contract, which is scheduled to expire in September, Roach said.

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Originally Posted by downtownguy

So, the new director starts next week. From Crain's:

John Roach, Mayor Mike Duggan's communications director, said the new DDOT director is from out of state and could be named publicly this week. The director is expected to start work by Jan. 15.

What perplexes me is how Duggan says he decided to do this after seeing folks standing out in the snow yesterday. OK, fine. But you already have somebody from out of state lined up? I suspect he wanted to do this from the get go, which is also fine, but why make it all based the poor performance in the weather this week? We all know D-DOT has been a mess for a long time. You don't need to use a snow storm to blame it on.

I thought this was also curious:

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It makes for better press. "A man of the people".

This question is more than likely tangential...

I haven't ridden a Detroit bus in a long, long time but I was wondering do the drivers have anyone riding shotgun for them?

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Originally Posted by 48307

Yup, and some people won't like the harshness of it, but you can't fix Detroit without making some very harsh and drastic changes.

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It would not surprise me if this is part of a larger plan to take much of the control back from Orr.

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Originally Posted by DetroitPlanner

It would not surprise me if this is part of a larger plan to take much of the control back from Orr.

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I think Orr would love to get as much off of his plate as possible, as long as he can be reasonably sure Duggan's work will be responsible with respect to both budget and services. If Duggan starts fixing things left and right, he might have full power back sooner rather than later.

Every single city employee should have expectations for job performance. Anyone not achieving should be let go. No ifs, ands, or buts.

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Originally Posted by MikeyinBrooklyn

Every single city employee should have expectations for job performance. Anyone not achieving should be let go. No ifs, ands, or buts.

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again... fine... and the point is clearly moot, but the guy that Duggan summarily dismissed WAS the "expert" brought in less than 5 months ago and he was apparently fired for something entirely out of his control [[40% of the drivers not physically able to get into work).

What happens when duggan's new out of state "expert" brought in to turn around DDOT fails to do so in less than 5 months? Fire him and get another one?

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Originally Posted by bailey

What happens when duggan's new out of state "expert" brought in to turn around DDOT fails to do so in less than 5 months? Fire him and get another one?

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Duggan should give each dept head a list of things he wants either accomplished or demonstrably underway with specific target dates. If they aren't getting it done, yes, you replace them. The length of time, of course, should depend on the specific department, the problems at hand, and the goal. I would actually be in favor of 6-month terms for department heads. At the end, they would need to lay out what they've gotten done, what they are currently doing, and the goals for the next 6 months.

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Originally Posted by bailey

again... fine... and the point is clearly moot, but the guy that Duggan summarily dismissed WAS the "expert" brought in less than 5 months ago and he was apparently fired for something entirely out of his control [[40% of the drivers not physically able to get into work).

What happens when duggan's new out of state "expert" brought in to turn around DDOT fails to do so in less than 5 months? Fire him and get another one?

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Kinda makes one wonder of the trickle down effect of those who needed that bus to be there,did they lose a days pay? Did they really need that money to eat and pay bills so bad that they probably trudged through the snow freezing to go to a bus that did not show up?

An expert brought in 5 month's ago that did not have a snow plan in place?
It does snow there,right?

I would have fired him also,to many people depending on the bus system to be let down like that,next would be the 40% that did not show up.That is a big percentage.

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Originally Posted by downtownguy

So, the new director starts next week. From Crain's:

John Roach, Mayor Mike Duggan's communications director, said the new DDOT director is from out of state and could be named publicly this week. The director is expected to start work by Jan. 15.

What perplexes me is how Duggan says he decided to do this after seeing folks standing out in the snow yesterday. OK, fine. But you already have somebody from out of state lined up? I suspect he wanted to do this from the get go, which is also fine, but why make it all based the poor performance in the weather this week? We all know D-DOT has been a mess for a long time. You don't need to use a snow storm to blame it on.

I thought this was also curious:

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The Mayor might've been trekking around the city prior to his being sworn in and seen people waiting at bus stops for buses that are running late. And after seeing that been like "Maybe I should start searching for someone so I can have a competent official I trust in that position". Or it could be... more... sinister...

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Originally Posted by Cincinnati_Kid

That's how it use to be in Detroit when I was growing up in the 60's and early to mid 70's. The snow was always plowed, until the crooks slowly started emptying the cookie jar.

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If I remember correctly, where I grew up [[ Littlefield between Vassar and St Martins ) The streets were not plowed after storms.

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Originally Posted by Lowell

Just heard this on WDET. Duggan seems to have grabbed the bull by the horns, verbally at least, declaring that change is already happening. He touted the success in plowing the snow from all Detroit streets and implementing 24 hour garbage pickup/catch up as his evidence.

Saying he was appalled by seeing crowded bus stops caused by buses running two hours late on his drive in to work, he has fired the DDOT chief.

He is asking Detroiters for a six month honeymoon, urging them to stick it out and not move away. He also declared that the city's population will be growing by the time of the next mayoral election.

He definitely hit the ground running. What will happen when he hits the many walls and political land mines out there? Good luck Mike.

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I don't want to sound negative, I hate negative people but Bing sounded good in the beginning too. He almost had me convinced, I thought he was going to make a difference. It's got to be tough running a city with no middle class tax base.

Softrailrider, you are completely correct in that we have been lead to believe in things before. Even when Kwame first came to power, he had a certain energy that I found appealing [[even though I was in NY at the time). So there is a track record of high expectations vs. low returns.

I try to maintain a "skeptical optimism." I think the city's trajectory of getting things in order [[thanks to many factors, from politicians, Orr, and business people like Gilbert). But I also think we need to make sure that we spend money wisely; that we need to reject bad ideas, even when they are well intended; and that we need to get through a lot of tough times to make a nicer city.

Mike Duggan might be an amazing or an awful mayor. We'll see. One thing I think he won't be, though, is inactive. Here's to hoping.

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Originally Posted by bailey

again... fine... and the point is clearly moot, but the guy that Duggan summarily dismissed WAS the "expert" brought in less than 5 months ago and he was apparently fired for something entirely out of his control [[40% of the drivers not physically able to get into work).

What happens when duggan's new out of state "expert" brought in to turn around DDOT fails to do so in less than 5 months? Fire him and get another one?

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Yep. Him and get another. And never be shy about failure. There will always be failures. What is unacceptable is hiding the failure -- or even worse not admitting the failure -- and instead just saying everything is perfect. That's what most perplexes me about education. People don't seem to mind the massive failures. And when someone wants to try something new, they are attacked because its not a proven technique -- or even worse with claims that because that idea was tried before, it can't work. Many self-made rich people have long strings of failures behind them.

Yep -- if this new gal fails, then replace her with someone else. And quickly.

MV is a Texas-bases transportation management company with service contracts in many cities. Toliver, an acknowledge leader in municipal transit, works for MV. MV has a contract here thru August with the option for a second year. Toliver is just MV's top guy here. He doesn't need to be the "Director" of DDOT.Duggan gets to appoint a Director to work with MV.
Cobo is now run by a national facility management company, SMG, to great success. SMG employees manage sales, marketing, HR, finance, security, maintenance.
Sometimes it pays to farm work out to experts.

Duggan said that he had ridden with the garbage collectors and order more collectors on the street to work 24 hours. Duggan said that he had ridden in a snow plower and order more plowers on the street to help plow the snow. Duggan said that he had noticed people waiting at the bus stops; found out that the busses will be running two hours apart; fired the DDOT director; but didn't say anything about ordering more busses out of the garage unto the lines for speedier service. What a smokescreen

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Originally Posted by softailrider

If I remember correctly, where I grew up [[ Littlefield between Vassar and St Martins ) The streets were not plowed after storms.

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I agree. I grew up in Detroit and was born in the mid-60's never saw a plow on local streets until a huge snow storm when Archer was in office. I do remember the block getting together and paying a guy with a jeep to sweep the walks with this cool attachment. Saw a lot of kids shagging to school though!

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Originally Posted by DetroitPlanner

I agree. I grew up in Detroit and was born in the mid-60's never saw a plow on local streets until a huge snow storm when Archer was in office. I do remember the block getting together and paying a guy with a jeep to sweep the walks with this cool attachment. Saw a lot of kids shagging to school though!

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I know what you're talking about, I remember the jeep with the spinning broom on the front doing the sidewalks.

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Originally Posted by stasu1213

Duggan said that he had ridden with the garbage collectors and order more collectors on the street to work 24 hours. Duggan said that he had ridden in a snow plower and order more plowers on the street to help plow the snow. Duggan said that he had noticed people waiting at the bus stops; found out that the busses will be running two hours apart; fired the DDOT director; but didn't say anything about ordering more busses out of the garage unto the lines for speedier service. What a smokescreen

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With the citizen and media criticism machine in high gear, you need to have the smokescreen engaged at the same time you are working on real results.

People, for the most part, do not understand how things work. They like simplistic images. They often work. Dukakis riding a tank -- or Bush with 'mission accomplished' -- Obama with 'if you like your coverage'. Smokescreens all.

So what. Let's discuss what he's doing -- not how you think he's sending up smokescreens. Smokescreens are a normal part of modern media life.

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Originally Posted by esp1986

The best thing about his situation is the Emergency Manager. Most individuals would have fought back, but Duggan has forged a relationship out of necessity. By doing this, many of the walls he stands to hit, he can go to Orr and he can approve changes without having to get clowncil approval. Orr has very broad and substantial powers, and Duggan certainly sees this as an advantage, which is why he is working with Orr while he is here. The goal is not for Orr to be here, but as long as he is, he can be a major asset to breaking down the barriers of city government that got in the way and put the city in this predicament in the first place.

It may pose a bigger problem down the road when Orr leaves, but the hope is, that many of those barriers are exposed and eliminated while he is here.

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Excellent analysis^ esp. He is singing a song many in Detroit have been wanting to hear by 'taking names and kicking butts'. It appeals on the PR level and he is getting loads of attaboys but he does this with a degree of protection from the man with the checkbook, Orr.

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Originally Posted by bailey

..the guy that Duggan summarily dismissed WAS the "expert" brought in less than 5 months ago and he was apparently fired for something entirely out of his control [[40% of the drivers not physically able to get into work).

What happens when duggan's new out of state "expert" brought in to turn around DDOT fails to do so in less than 5 months? Fire him and get another one?

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Another excellent^ point that made me go hmmm... The fact that Duggan had a replacement at hand and that the current chief is not having his desk emptied and being frog-walked out of the building but will be hanging around until Sept. does add a bit curiosity to this drama.

It is as if Duggan is gambling he can get things noticeably improved in six months, and more importantly before Orr leaves and democracy returns, that he will have so much popularity and political capital that Council will in his pocket [or afraid of him] instead of being the rancorous obstructionist body it too has often been.

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Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

With the citizen and media criticism machine in high gear, you need to have the smokescreen engaged at the same time you are working on real results.

People, for the most part, do not understand how things work. They like simplistic images. They often work. Dukakis riding a tank -- or Bush with 'mission accomplished' -- Obama with 'if you like your coverage'. Smokescreens all.

So what. Let's discuss what he's doing -- not how you think he's sending up smokescreens. Smokescreens are a normal part of modern media life.

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All of the services that he had mentioned were stepped up during this polar vortex with the exception of bus service. It is good that he had fired the director. He didn't say that he had ordered more busses on the line especially during this past critical week

A few observations, since some of you haven't been reading the articles or don't know Duggan:

- Danny is usually wrong about everything, and sometime in some bizarre ways, but he brought up something that just seemed to be totally ignored: Mike Duggan served for a number of years in the 90's as the general manager of SMART. This wasn't some rash or weird fiiring; Duggan knows a thing or two about running a transit system, okay?

- Toliver isn't being "fired", he's being demoted. Now, this is where one must read between the lines. Duggan was given control over many city services [[including DDOT), but the current DDOT director was hired by Orr with a contract that ends in September, when Orr is supposed to be on his way out. Either Duggan made a deal with Orr before hand over this, or Duggan didn't want to totally piss off Orr and start some local government crisis over who is really in charge by just flat out getting rid of Toliver, so he's allowing this contract to run its course [[a contract that even apart from a power struggle, probably has a clause that would force the city to pay him out if fired) while clearly displaying that he's not going to be a pushover.

- Until DDOT can be spun off like public lighting was, it's ALWAYS going to have problems. No transit system in this nation could function with its funding raided every fiscal year as much as DDOT's has been. No doubt there are some cultural problems within th department that need to be worked out, but there is no cultural change that could be made that would have prevented the cutting of 24-hour service in dozens of routes over the year. This is a funding issue before anything else. The system's only real hope is to be spun off to the RTA, but it's going to be a whole other year before they are even up-and-running at full-speed, and even the legislation that created the RTA didn't provide any specific and dedicated funding for the actual agency, so it'll be likely years before they are even able to entertain the idea of taking on ANY transit system in the region.

I'm glad Duggan is flexing his muscle early on. As someone who believes in co-operating with the EM while he's here, I am and will always be fundamentally against the idea of the expanded law. Folks knew when they elected Duggan what he was about. This man is not cute and cuddly; he gets shit done, and steps on toes, and I hope that allays the fears of some Detroiters who didn't trust him to have their interest at heart. He's putting everyone on notice - the state AND the local hangers-on - that there's a new boss in town, and he ain't like the old one.

I'm sure there are a lot of folks here who supported him because they actually believed the rumors from his opponents that he was a stalking horse for Snyder. Boy, are you going to be sadly disappointed if that's the reason you got behind his candidacy.

Mike came to Detroit to chew bubblegum and kick ass...and he's all out of bubblegum.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dexlin

- Until DDOT can be spun off like public lighting was, it's ALWAYS going to have problems. No transit system in this nation could function with its funding raided every fiscal year as much as DDOT's has been. No doubt there are some cultural problems within th department that need to be worked out, but there is no cultural change that could be made that would have prevented the cutting of 24-hour service in dozens of routes over the year. This is a funding issue before anything else. The system's only real hope is to be spun off to the RTA, but it's going to be a whole other year before they are even up-and-running at full-speed, and even the legislation that created the RTA didn't provide any specific and dedicated funding for the actual agency, so it'll be likely years before they are even able to entertain the idea of taking on ANY transit system in the region.

.

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so is it politically feasible to try and shunt DDOT into the RTA? I can see local folks start assuming it's just a means to ultimately "end" urban Detroit bus service or further cut routes heavily.

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Originally Posted by Hypestyles

so is it politically feasible to try and shunt DDOT into the RTA? I can see local folks start assuming it's just a means to ultimately "end" urban Detroit bus service or further cut routes heavily.

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Nope.

RTA Act requires unanimous vote of RTA Board and regional vote to take over legacy costs of any existing transit operator.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hypestyles

so is it politically feasible to try and shunt DDOT into the RTA? I can see local folks start assuming it's just a means to ultimately "end" urban Detroit bus service or further cut routes heavily.

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What's that old saying about "assuming" [[ass u me)? Just fix the problem.

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Originally Posted by Eber Brock Ward

Nope.

RTA Act requires unanimous vote of RTA Board and regional vote to take over legacy costs of any existing transit operator.

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And there's the rub. Someone with much more first hand knowledge of regional government told me the legacy costs will always be an impediment to merging RTA/SMART/DDOT.

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Originally Posted by Eber Brock Ward

Nope.

RTA Act requires unanimous vote of RTA Board and regional vote to take over legacy costs of any existing transit operator.

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Your premise is correct but there is a subtle difference that makes your conclusion [["nope") not as certain as you think. I will put it in the form of a question, which I won't answer.

Is there any conceivable way for the RTA to implement the routes now being served by DDOT - perhaps, let's say, even using DDOT's buses and maintenance people, drivers and facilities, under some sort of arrangement - without absorbing any of the aforementioned legacy costs?

One thing is completely off the table: the RTA cannot "take over" DDOT. It is theoretically possible [[though highly unlikely) for the RTA to take over SMART, because SMART exists; it is an incorporated service provider owned by three county transportation authorities. DDOT is not a corporation and has no separate existence of its own; it is simply a department of a large corporation [[Detroit).

We live in fascinating times.

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Originally Posted by Dexlin

Mike came to Detroit to chew bubblegum and kick ass...and he's all out of bubblegum.

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I hope he doesn't lose his sunglasses.


[[For the modern-culturally-challenged: http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/im-her...chew-bubblegum )

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Originally Posted by Lowell

Another excellent^ point that made me go hmmm... The fact that Duggan had a replacement at hand and that the current chief is not having his desk emptied and being frog-walked out of the building but will be hanging around until Sept. does add a bit curiosity to this drama.

It is as if Duggan is gambling he can get things noticeably improved in six months, and more importantly before Orr leaves and democracy returns, that he will have so much popularity and political capital that Council will in his pocket [or afraid of him] instead of being the rancorous obstructionist body it too has often been.

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Again, Duggan has been campaigning to become mayor of Detroit for how long? It doesn't take a rocket surgeon [[har har) to go by a bus stop, watch when the buses arrive and compare it to what the schedule is supposed to be. Or to even ask those riders. From there, you get an idea that the system is being poorly managed and start thinking about who you, as a well connected person in both the private and public sectors, know who might fit that role well. It is not that far fetched in reality, just extremely far fetched to think that far ahead in Detroit politics. And I am not saying that is what he did, but that he MIGHT HAVE done that.

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Originally Posted by professorscott

Your premise is correct but there is a subtle difference that makes your conclusion [["nope") not as certain as you think. I will put it in the form of a question, which I won't answer.

Is there any conceivable way for the RTA to implement the routes now being served by DDOT - perhaps, let's say, even using DDOT's buses and maintenance people, drivers and facilities, under some sort of arrangement - without absorbing any of the aforementioned legacy costs?

One thing is completely off the table: the RTA cannot "take over" DDOT. It is theoretically possible [[though highly unlikely) for the RTA to take over SMART, because SMART exists; it is an incorporated service provider owned by three county transportation authorities. DDOT is not a corporation and has no separate existence of its own; it is simply a department of a large corporation [[Detroit).

We live in fascinating times.

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That's a good point. That said, it would take a hell of a lot of political dealmaking [[or a mass violation of the non-Detroit board members' fiduciary duty) to get the non-Detroit board members to vote "yea" to basically taking over DDOT operations under a non-DDOT flag.

As a city resident, I'd love that, though. No way DDOT's recovery ratio approaches 100%, so the operations subsidy would be paid by the RTA instead of the city, freeing up dollars for city services.

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Originally Posted by Eber Brock Ward

the operations subsidy would be paid by the RTA instead of the city, freeing up dollars for city services.

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Well, remember, Detroiters will be paying into the RTA.

The RTA can ask for funding which will only be sufficient to provide a regional rapid [[or semirapid) transit "skeleton" and leave DDOT and SMART to fill in with local service. However, the RTA could instead choose to ask for funding that would be sufficient to fund both the regional and local services. In the latter case, it would have many optionss how to proceed. If the RTA believes SMART is well run and efficient, it can just pass through funds to SMART; same with DDOT. If the RTA believes either agency is not well run or inefficient, it can choose to operate local service instead of the existing agency.

The latter case might be an easier sell in the 'burbs because in that case the RTA money from the taxpayers, in whatever precise form it might take, would make the SMART millage unnecessary. The Professor has long believed it is easier to sell people on the idea of this new tax/fee replacing an old tax/fee, than on the idea of this new tax/fee in addition to the old tax/fee which we still will collect.

Of course, in any case, the net amount of money going in to transit in the region is more than what we pay in now. In the first case, it's obvious; it's a new tax/fee on top of what's now in the kitty. In the second case, the amount each family pays in will go up a little bit on average but the real kicker is that there would be no "opt-out" communities, so every community's population would contribute. Look at the gaps in the SMART map to see what a huge deal that would be.

Dan Dirks.

http://www.wxyz.com/dpp/news/region/...-troubled-ddot

The article isn't much to read, just to namedrop. I really hate it when the press spells SMART, Smart. It's an acronym, treat it as such. SMART certainly is not a smart organization.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by professorscott

Well, remember, Detroiters will be paying into the RTA.

The RTA can ask for funding which will only be sufficient to provide a regional rapid [[or semirapid) transit "skeleton" and leave DDOT and SMART to fill in with local service. However, the RTA could instead choose to ask for funding that would be sufficient to fund both the regional and local services. In the latter case, it would have many optionss how to proceed. If the RTA believes SMART is well run and efficient, it can just pass through funds to SMART; same with DDOT. If the RTA believes either agency is not well run or inefficient, it can choose to operate local service instead of the existing agency.

The latter case might be an easier sell in the 'burbs because in that case the RTA money from the taxpayers, in whatever precise form it might take, would make the SMART millage unnecessary. The Professor has long believed it is easier to sell people on the idea of this new tax/fee replacing an old tax/fee, than on the idea of this new tax/fee in addition to the old tax/fee which we still will collect.

Of course, in any case, the net amount of money going in to transit in the region is more than what we pay in now. In the first case, it's obvious; it's a new tax/fee on top of what's now in the kitty. In the second case, the amount each family pays in will go up a little bit on average but the real kicker is that there would be no "opt-out" communities, so every community's population would contribute. Look at the gaps in the SMART map to see what a huge deal that would be.

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If I'm reading the enabling legislation correctly, the RTA is allowed to ask for up to $1.20 per $1,000 of value of each vehicle registered in the RTA region, and no more. Also IIRC there is some restriction to the effect that most of the money raised by this fee has to be spent in the county in which it was raised. Has anyone tried to estimate how much money a vehicle registration fee of $1.20 per $1,000 might add up to in each county?

Or are you speculating that the RTA might request, and obtain, authorization from the state to levy additional taxes or fees above the $1.20/$1,000 authorized by the existing legislation?

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Originally Posted by dtowncitylover

Dan Dirks.

http://www.wxyz.com/dpp/news/region/...-troubled-ddot

The article isn't much to read, just to namedrop. I really hate it when the press spells SMART, Smart. It's an acronym, treat it as such. SMART certainly is not a smart organization.

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Dan Dirks did a good job of managing SMART, thus is an excellent choice to run DDOT. This is great news since he knows how to run buses on time and this will help out very much to build a World Class mass transit system in greater Detroit.

I think right from the beginning, Duggan was out to get SMART....

Dirks worked for Duggan when Duggan ran SMART.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by professorscott

Well, remember, Detroiters will be paying into the RTA.

The RTA can ask for funding which will only be sufficient to provide a regional rapid [[or semirapid) transit "skeleton" and leave DDOT and SMART to fill in with local service. However, the RTA could instead choose to ask for funding that would be sufficient to fund both the regional and local services. In the latter case, it would have many optionss how to proceed. If the RTA believes SMART is well run and efficient, it can just pass through funds to SMART; same with DDOT. If the RTA believes either agency is not well run or inefficient, it can choose to operate local service instead of the existing agency.

The latter case might be an easier sell in the 'burbs because in that case the RTA money from the taxpayers, in whatever precise form it might take, would make the SMART millage unnecessary. The Professor has long believed it is easier to sell people on the idea of this new tax/fee replacing an old tax/fee, than on the idea of this new tax/fee in addition to the old tax/fee which we still will collect.

Of course, in any case, the net amount of money going in to transit in the region is more than what we pay in now. In the first case, it's obvious; it's a new tax/fee on top of what's now in the kitty. In the second case, the amount each family pays in will go up a little bit on average but the real kicker is that there would be no "opt-out" communities, so every community's population would contribute. Look at the gaps in the SMART map to see what a huge deal that would be.

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Another good post, but my point was about the city's budget, and not Detroiters' individual budgets. I am worried about the city I live in returning to fiscal solvency. The subsidy for DDOT service, under an "RTA assumes DDOT operations" scenario, would be shifted from the City to individuals in the RTA region that own and register vehicles, including individuals in the city.

And those individuals' registration fees would be going to the RTA, meaning that "the operations subsidy would be paid by the RTA instead of the city, freeing up dollars for city services."

Love it, if it can happen. Also love the lack of opt-out. I'm hoping that we get it on the ballot later this year, but it may be wiser to wait til 2016.

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Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

I think right from the beginning, Duggan was out to get SMART....

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http://www.droidforums.net/forum/att...xwellsmart.jpg

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Originally Posted by rb336

http://www.droidforums.net/forum/att...xwellsmart.jpg

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finally!!!!

I think raising the County Property tax from 0.59 to 2.5 mil is a good idea next August 2014 to pay for frequent SMART bus service connecting downtown Detroit to the airport and Oakland and Macomb Counties and the restoration of service where wanted or needed in the Opt In communities.

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Originally Posted by Eber Brock Ward

I'm hoping that we get it on the ballot later this year, but it may be wiser to wait til 2016.

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The baby boomers are getting old, so there will be a big need for public bus service coming soon.

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Originally Posted by That Great Guy

I think we should fight the freeway expansions and bus service reductions.

The baby boomers are getting old, so there will be a big need for public bus service coming soon.

The time to fight is 2014, right now. Not 2016, when the Bull Dozers come.

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Methinks you sound awfully similar to our former "one trick pony" former poster TRAINMAN... who said absolutely ZILCH about anything except extolling mass transit... :eek:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by professorscott

Well, remember, Detroiters will be paying into the RTA.

The RTA can ask for funding which will only be sufficient to provide a regional rapid [[or semirapid) transit "skeleton" and leave DDOT and SMART to fill in with local service. However, the RTA could instead choose to ask for funding that would be sufficient to fund both the regional and local services. In the latter case, it would have many optionss how to proceed. If the RTA believes SMART is well run and efficient, it can just pass through funds to SMART; same with DDOT. If the RTA believes either agency is not well run or inefficient, it can choose to operate local service instead of the existing agency.

The latter case might be an easier sell in the 'burbs because in that case the RTA money from the taxpayers, in whatever precise form it might take, would make the SMART millage unnecessary. The Professor has long believed it is easier to sell people on the idea of this new tax/fee replacing an old tax/fee, than on the idea of this new tax/fee in addition to the old tax/fee which we still will collect.

Of course, in any case, the net amount of money going in to transit in the region is more than what we pay in now. In the first case, it's obvious; it's a new tax/fee on top of what's now in the kitty. In the second case, the amount each family pays in will go up a little bit on average but the real kicker is that there would be no "opt-out" communities, so every community's population would contribute. Look at the gaps in the SMART map to see what a huge deal that would be.

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It should also be mentioned that even apart from the taxing authority and mechanism for the RTA - which is really convoluted if you ask me, it should have been a regional penny sales tax addition, or something, but that's what you get when you let folks who don't believe in mass transit write the legislation - the RTA as of this new year has been designated the recipient of funds for the transit systems in the region. It can use this power as leverage to coordinate service of the two systems, which I hear it's already doing.

So, what the legislation did was essentially merge the two systems, without even having to legally do it, which would have been damn-near impossible. Each system still has its general manager and director, but it'd probably more accurate to think about them, now, as brands, given that the RTA can essentially incentivize and/or threaten coordination with its control of the transit system's purse strings.

On the news, today, with Duggan having been a former transit director, himself, and this new guy for DDOT having been one, this bodes really well for transit in the region in general. They have to find some creative way to accelerate maintenance for DDOT already more than it has been, but this should really help in preventing more service being cut than already has been.

I think that a Ridership Board or something should be formed by DDot consiting of those who catch public transit everyday. Those who would sit on this board are volunteers who jobs are to give input on how the busses are running, what improvements should be made from a riders viewpoint, and what type of new busses should be ordered. I commute on the bus during the week. I feel that we need busses the wider aisles such as the Windsor Canada busses have and also seats wife enough to hold two adults. These busses that DDOT has currently were probably ordered by someone or group who dont commuter on bussrs daily if at all.

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Originally Posted by Dexlin

it should have been a regional penny sales tax addition, or something, but that's what you get when you let folks who don't believe in mass transit write the legislation

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That would have been the best and simplest; the difficulty is that it is not clear that the State constitution allows for local or regional sales taxes, and it was considered too risky to do something that would rely on a constitutional amendment. It is [[and ought to be) difficult to amend the constitution.

I wish the head of Saginaw's STARS system would get fired. I rode the bus in Saginaw yesterday, it only runs Monday-Friday. The buses yesterday were running between 15-20 minutes late, Saginaw is a much smaller city than Detroit but STARS only puts one bus on every route except for their route 6 which is their busiest route where they have two buses on it, but the reason for that is because route 6 is actually 2 routes combined into 1.

The buses all leave the downtown transfer plaza at the same time and run every 40 minutes, these routes aren't as long as Detroit's they are only about 9 or 10 miles mostly combined inbound and outbound. They don't run past 8pm or on weekends and it's a poorly ran bus system.

I have rode Detroit's buses before mainly route 53 from the Fairgrounds to downtown and back. I'm not even sure on how often the buses in Detroit are suppose to be running but I have waited at the Fairgrounds for route 53 for over 45 minutes before and this is suppose to be one of the busier routes in Detroit and I'm sure it is since it goes down Woodward.

After riding buses in Chicago at the different times I've been to my place there it's much easier, any city that has a public transportation problem such as Detroit should look at Chicago for an example of how a great transit system runs. I've waited for the buses and trains in Chicago before but never for more than about 10 minutes.

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Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

He proclaimed May 21st-May 27th, 2013, Detroit Techno Week.

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Also, it should be noted that while Bings accomplishments were few ,, no matter what he tried, he was systematically blocked by a pathetic City Council,, whatever Bing recommended, they automatically took the other stance.. He on some occasions could have over rode them but generally chose not to [[ not necessarily a good choice) , other times his hands were totally tied.. Duggan does not have to deal with this idiocy, yet, due to the EM. Once he is gone , Im hoping the ship of fools mentality doesnt emerge again.. The jury is out on this one,, The fact that they chose the new President and Cushingberry does not bode well, The more rational ones ofcourse did not vote for them. Im very disappointed in Gabe Lelands stances/voting so far. I thought he wouldnt buy into the old guard.

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Originally Posted by DetBill

Also, it should be noted that while Bings accomplishments were few ,, no matter what he tried, he was systematically blocked by a pathetic City Council,, whatever Bing recommended, they automatically took the other stance.. He on some occasions could have over rode them but generally chose not to [[ not necessarily a good choice) , other times his hands were totally tied.. Duggan does not have to deal with this idiocy, yet, due to the EM. Once he is gone , Im hoping the ship of fools mentality doesnt emerge again.. The jury is out on this one,, The fact that they chose the new President and Cushingberry does not bode well, The more rational ones ofcourse did not vote for them. Im very disappointed in Gabe Lelands stances/voting so far. I thought he wouldnt buy into the old guard.

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The self-serving fights against the EM laws foster a mentality that there was nothing wrong with the old ways. It shouldn't then be a surprise when some voters agree -- seeing the alternative as evil state control driven by Wall Street and multinationals.

Do I recall correctly that Orr can dissolve council? Let's see where Cushingberry takes this game. As Orr becomes a lame duck, it might get to be fun again.

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Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

Do I recall correctly that Orr can dissolve council? Let's see where Cushingberry takes this game. As Orr becomes a lame duck, it might get to be fun again.

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No, one of the Cushenberry news articles mentions that Orr cannot remove a council member... only stop paying them.... :p

He did that with Pugh last summer, when he wasn't showing up for council meetings before he resigned.

With the announcement of Windsor Mayor Eddie Francis' decision to leave the mayor's office after 11 years at the helm, the entire Detroit-Windsor area faces the prospect that when the mayors of Detroit and Windsor meet later this year, both will be fresh faces with new ideas, something that hasn't happened in a long while. This is truly a wonderful time to be living in this region.

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Originally Posted by Gistok

No, one of the Cushenberry news articles mentions that Orr cannot remove a council member... only stop paying them.... :p

He did that with Pugh last summer, when he wasn't showing up for council meetings before he resigned.

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Really -- so it just like the mayor's office. The council still has all its powers -- except those it forfeited by the results of their malfeasance.

Thanks.

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Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

Really -- so it just like the mayor's office. The council still has all its powers -- except those it forfeited by the results of their malfeasance.

Thanks.

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Wesley Mouch... not really sure about their powers... they may still get to exercise their duty... but as we saw with Belle Isle... they can be overriden...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hortonz

With the announcement of Windsor Mayor Eddie Francis' decision to leave the mayor's office after 11 years at the helm, the entire Detroit-Windsor area faces the prospect that when the mayors of Detroit and Windsor meet later this year, both will be fresh faces with new ideas, something that hasn't happened in a long while. This is truly a wonderful time to be living in this region.

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Why?

Why are people who invent new ways to raise taxes considered visionaries and good leaders by you DetroitYES posters?

First day on the job and tje busses were runnung slow under the new director of DDot. THE GRATIOT bus was overflowing with passengers due to delay in service. Is this a joke

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Originally Posted by Gistok

Wesley Mouch... not really sure about their powers... they may still get to exercise their duty... but as we saw with Belle Isle... they can be overriden...

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Why focus on the small things. There are so many issues in Detroit to which energy, intelligence, and creativity can be put. Why some people worry so much about little things like who runs a park? So long as its run, move on. Do something useful.

I choose to focus on what can be done -- not what others are doing or saying.

is there a standing proposal to move up the next mayoral election to coincide with the next Presidential election, 2016?

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Originally Posted by stasu1213

First day on the job and tje busses were runnung slow under the new director of DDot. THE GRATIOT bus was overflowing with passengers due to delay in service. Is this a joke

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you expect someone who has been on the job 0 days to instantly change a system that has more problems than a rabbit cornered in a wolf's den?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by stasu1213

First day on the job and tje busses were runnung slow under the new director of DDot. THE GRATIOT bus was overflowing with passengers due to delay in service. Is this a joke

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You can't be serious, are you? Besides, the Crain's article I read said he would start by Jan. 15. Give him at least until Friday before you start critiquing his progress.

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Originally Posted by Cincinnati_Kid

That's how it use to be in Detroit when I was growing up in the 60's and early to mid 70's. The snow was always plowed, until the crooks slowly started emptying the cookie jar.

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to be fair, the crooks started way before that. there was just so much money left we didn't notice until then :-)