La Vogue Apartments renovation

The La Vogue Apartments located at 225 Merton, Detroit, 48203 appear to be
under a gut renovation.
Demolition chutes, fencing, and public funding project signage are clearlyvisible at the property.

A publicly available report listing the $609,000 awarded to the project
lists the property as L'Vogue Square.
It also lists ownership by Kathy Makino [[Leipsitz?), La Vogue Square LDHA LP.

CoD City Council’s September 14, 2009’s agenda gives the following
information about the project:
“ . . . Six [[6) of the units will be occupied by tenants with incomes at
thirty-percent [[30%) of the area median income adjusted for family size; six
[[6) of the units will be occupied by tenants with incomes at forty-percent [[40)
of the area median income adjusted for family size; sixteen [[16) of the units
will be occupied by tenants with incomes at fifty-percent [[50%) of the area
median income adjusted for family size; twelve [[12) of the units will be
occupied by tenants with incomes at sixty-percent [[60) of the area median
income adjusted for family size; four [[4) units will be reserved for special
needs tenants; five [[5) 2-bedrooms or larger will be reserved for families with
children; one unit will be used by the manager/employee. . . .”

Does anyone have any background information about the project?
Why this building, why know, is it a bet on light rail?

There are some beautiful tenement buildings over there: http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&sa...,0.077162&z=14 There's also many nice ones located on Whitmore. They just don't build them like that anymore.

Kathy Makino Leipsitz and her husband Mark are project developers who are responsible for the renovation and construction of many apartment buildings throughout the city. I worked with them along with Detroit Central City Community Mental Health and Cots on a Supportive Housing project for the mentally ill homeless population. Google them to find out about the many projects they are responsible for.

What a beautiful building. I'm glad its being renovated.

Ok here I go with my predictions again

I think the palmer park apt district is going to make a major comeback if/when light rail serves it. The area really has some things going for it. First of all Detroit doesn't have many apartment districts and few places anywhere could compete with the architecture found in this area.

The other big perk is that is is right off of woodward and very concentrated plus palmer park is right across the way. My prediction is that as downtown and midtown get more expensive and the light rail comes this way this spot will be very popular with the younger crowd. As it is beautiful apartments are dirt cheap there and I know I would be interested in one if I could hop on the train and be downtown in a few minutes.

I can't say how bad that area is crime wise currently but eventually I could imagine a private security patrol for the area given how small and dense it is. If you could live in a stunning apartment for half the price of downtown [[but a 5 minute trip away) I think many would go for it.

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Originally Posted by rencense

If you could live in a stunning apartment for half the price of downtown [[but a 5 minute trip away) I think many would go for it.

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Five minutes? It's light rail, not the freaking Concorde.

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Originally Posted by Augustiner

Five minutes? It's light rail, not the freaking Concorde.

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Good One...:D

What sort of new businesses could you imagine being currently supported on the east side of Woodward between 6 and 7 mile?

I could see a Honeybee Market and I would like to imagine the likes of a [[ferndale's) Western Fruit Market. As opposed to a fancy food store, I know Detroiters who shop at Western, and I have seen people use their bridge cards there.
From a conversation with a Western Fruit Market employee I know there food is mainly sent from the Eastern Market. So I assume those relationships and general market conditions control their fruit prices.
What would it take for someone to open a sizable fruit market somewhere on Woodward?

Also, how does that same area support a fancy water refill shop [[The Refill Station)?
I am happy the customers have there wants met, but if a water shop why not all the other offerings that one would expect in the neighborhood?
Coffee shop, pizza, etc?

Lastly, has anyone ever been to the Golden Gate Cafe? Any opinions?

This is great to hear. It's a cool looking building

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Originally Posted by rencense

Ok here I go with my predictions again

I think the palmer park apt district is going to make a major comeback if/when light rail serves it. The area really has some things going for it. First of all Detroit doesn't have many apartment districts and few places anywhere could compete with the architecture found in this area.

The other big perk is that is is right off of woodward and very concentrated plus palmer park is right across the way. My prediction is that as downtown and midtown get more expensive and the light rail comes this way this spot will be very popular with the younger crowd. As it is beautiful apartments are dirt cheap there and I know I would be interested in one if I could hop on the train and be downtown in a few minutes.

I can't say how bad that area is crime wise currently but eventually I could imagine a private security patrol for the area given how small and dense it is. If you could live in a stunning apartment for half the price of downtown [[but a 5 minute trip away) I think many would go for it.

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Except that not so long ago it was doing well [[Palmer pk apt area) . The Palmer park apt area was a thriving gay area.Apt bldgs were fixed up and people were making the area come back. Then crime came along and people got hurt and of course the cops did very little[[ anti gay?) and so people left and the area went to shit...again.

So forgive those of us who view this with a lot of skepticism .

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Originally Posted by citylover

Then crime came along and people got hurt and of course the cops did very little[[ anti gay?) and so people left and the area went to shit...again.

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Never ascribe to malice what can easily be explained by incompetence [[the administration, not the individual officers).

The police do little about crime anywhere in the city.

And where do all the people come from to make it work? In 1950, Detroit had 1.8m people. In 1980, the city had 1.2m. Now it has around 800,000 and still declining.

Light rail from downtown to Palmer Park is going to get half a million people to move back to the city? Where do all the people come from to make this work? And what will they do here for a living if they move back? Light rail is supposed to make all these people come back to the city? It'll take a lot more than positive thinking to bring that area of the city back to a decent state. How about a miracle? The area is so lawless that the last time I drove through there cars weren't even stopping and waiting at red lights--they just drove straight through the busy intersection. Plus, I just don't change looking at the 60 year trend of declining population data.

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Originally Posted by rencense

Ok here I go with my predictions again

I think the palmer park apt district is going to make a major comeback if/when light rail serves it. The area really has some things going for it. First of all Detroit doesn't have many apartment districts and few places anywhere could compete with the architecture found in this area.

The other big perk is that is is right off of woodward and very concentrated plus palmer park is right across the way. My prediction is that as downtown and midtown get more expensive and the light rail comes this way this spot will be very popular with the younger crowd. As it is beautiful apartments are dirt cheap there and I know I would be interested in one if I could hop on the train and be downtown in a few minutes.

I can't say how bad that area is crime wise currently but eventually I could imagine a private security patrol for the area given how small and dense it is. If you could live in a stunning apartment for half the price of downtown [[but a 5 minute trip away) I think many would go for it.

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And where do all the people come from to make it work? In 1950, Detroit had 1.8m people. In 1980, the city had 1.2m. Now it has around 800,000 and still declining.

Light rail from downtown to Palmer Park is going to get half a million people to move back to the city?

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No, nor does it need to. The Palmer Park area probably couldn't house more than 20,000 people if everything were full, and there are already lots of people there.

Light rail will make the area a little more attractive. If it improves the retail around 6 and Woodward, it will make the area a fair bit more attractive. I have been considering moving to Palmer Park when I stop wanting to live in a house, and the light rail would make me more inclined to do so. That's still several years away, so I'll see what things are like then.

...and it is about a mile from University of Detroit Mercy, though I've never heard of Palmer Park being any sort of hotbed for college students [[acknowledging the fact that UDM is largely commuter).

If 20,000 people moved into the city next year, I doubt more than a few hundred would choose Palmer Park. It's a huge city and there's so many other places to live closer [[and that are safer for that matter) than 7 miles from downtown.

But, that's all moot. There isn't even evidence that there will be a net increase of 1 resident to the city, let alone 20,000 or even the half a million you'll need. So where are the people going to come from? Light rail isn't going to make a difference unless there's a huge surge of decent paying new jobs that light rail would take residents to from stops along Woodward. Light rail is just throwing good money after bad.

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Originally Posted by mwilbert

No, nor does it need to. The Palmer Park area probably couldn't house more than 20,000 people if everything were full, and there are already lots of people there.

Light rail will make the area a little more attractive. If it improves the retail around 6 and Woodward, it will make the area a fair bit more attractive. I have been considering moving to Palmer Park when I stop wanting to live in a house, and the light rail would make me more inclined to do so. That's still several years away, so I'll see what things are like then.

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Originally Posted by davewindsor

And where do all the people come from to make it work? In 1950, Detroit had 1.8m people. In 1980, the city had 1.2m. Now it has around 800,000 and still declining.

Light rail from downtown to Palmer Park is going to get half a million people to move back to the city? Where do all the people come from to make this work? And what will they do here for a living if they move back? Light rail is supposed to make all these people come back to the city? It'll take a lot more than positive thinking to bring that area of the city back to a decent state. How about a miracle? The area is so lawless that the last time I drove through there cars weren't even stopping and waiting at red lights--they just drove straight through the busy intersection. Plus, I just don't change looking at the 60 year trend of declining population data.

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I'm in the city every day. The vast majority [[99%+) of the traffic I see stops for red lights.

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Originally Posted by mwilbert

No, nor does it need to. The Palmer Park area probably couldn't house more than 20,000 people if everything were full, and there are already lots of people there.

Light rail will make the area a little more attractive. If it improves the retail around 6 and Woodward, it will make the area a fair bit more attractive. I have been considering moving to Palmer Park when I stop wanting to live in a house, and the light rail would make me more inclined to do so. That's still several years away, so I'll see what things are like then.

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I'll agree the retail around 6 Mile and Woodward could use some improvement. Still waiting for that Meijers up the street on State Fair.

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Originally Posted by softailrider

I'm in the city every day. The vast majority [[99%+) of the traffic I see stops for red lights.

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Last time I was driving through Palmer Park, I had cars honking like I was insane for stopping at a red light and pass me and whip straight through red lights. That was month ago. Time was around 6-7pm. Maybe they were worried a pedestrian would pull out a gun and carjack them. I don't know. Almost everyone was doing it. It happened at two intersections. It wasn't a yellow light turning red. It was red when I got there and I stopped. They didn't even treat it as a four way stop and stop. They just slowed down a little and whipped right through. Happened twice and I got the hell out of there and back on Woodward because I didn't want to get hit.

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Originally Posted by bartock

...and it is about a mile from University of Detroit Mercy, though I've never heard of Palmer Park being any sort of hotbed for college students [[acknowledging the fact that UDM is largely commuter).

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speaking as a recent udm alum...students stopped living in palmer park in the 70's...most ppl living off campus opt to live in ferndale, royal oak, and hamtramck

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Originally Posted by hybridy

speaking as a recent udm alum...students stopped living in palmer park in the 70's...most ppl living off campus opt to live in ferndale, royal oak, and hamtramck

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I did not know of anyone in Palmer Park when I was there. An aside, but when I graduated in 1998, there were actually still a few students living on Stoepel. I can't imagine there are any students on the west side of Livernois anymore.

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Originally Posted by davewindsor

Last time I was driving through Palmer Park, I had cars honking like I was insane for stopping at a red light and pass me and whip straight through red lights. That was month ago. Time was around 6-7pm. Maybe they were worried a pedestrian would pull out a gun and carjack them. I don't know. Almost everyone was doing it. It happened at two intersections. It wasn't a yellow light turning red. It was red when I got there and I stopped. They didn't even treat it as a four way stop and stop. They just slowed down a little and whipped right through. Happened twice and I got the hell out of there and back on Woodward because I didn't want to get hit.

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What red light in Palmer Park? I don't know of any. McNichols, perhaps?

I turned off Woodward to check out a street lined with old apartment buildings. Later, I saw a couple burnt out ones. I'll have to look on the map again figure out the street.

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Originally Posted by bartock

What red light in Palmer Park? I don't know of any. McNichols, perhaps?

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Originally Posted by bartock

What red light in Palmer Park? I don't know of any. McNichols, perhaps?

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Had a look at the map. Are there traffic lights on McNichols? If so, I think it was McNichols.

I lived next to La Vogue about 1982-1983 in the building on 225 Covington. I had two friends that lived in La Vogue at different times. I can barely recall the interior. Palmer Park was getting terrible with crime, muggings were routine as were car thefts and break-ins. Someone broke into three units in my building in one day alone. Mine was one that they attempted to break into, the door was damaged but for some reason they were scared off. I would say at least 25 people I knew at the time all left PP before 1984 because of crime of fear of crime.

If Palmer Park were secure it could be a very nice residential area. The buildings are phenomenal, inside and out. Parking is an issue, but not nearly as bad as places like NYC or San Francisco. The view of the park from certain buildings is nice, there is enough grass and a few trees to give it an aesthetic appeal.

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Originally Posted by davewindsor

Had a look at the map. Are there traffic lights on McNichols? If so, I think it was McNichols.

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2nd, 3rd, Merton all around there are burnt/blown out apartments. My guess is that you were on McNichols, the driving on McNichols can be totally insane, though I doubt anyone was worried about being carjacked nearly as much as that is just demolition derby driving and most don't care.

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Originally Posted by bartock

I did not know of anyone in Palmer Park when I was there. An aside, but when I graduated in 1998, there were actually still a few students living on Stoepel. I can't imagine there are any students on the west side of Livernois anymore.

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haha no one west of livernois, and no one east of fairfield other than the fraternity houses...as of 08 campus housing was always full, but in need of major improvements

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Originally Posted by Hermod

Never ascribe to malice what can easily be explained by incompetence [[the administration, not the individual officers).

The police do little about crime anywhere in the city.

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The Palmer pk area has been a topic in the past on the forum.I seem to recall that a regular poster back when it was a topic a few yrs ago made reference to a very real and palpable anti homosexual sentiment from the Police.

The area does not need 20,000 to make a big difference. A few hundred could possibly introduce new social circles to the area as a viable place to live.

wow, that got torn apart quickly i swear noone can piss all over an idea faster than dyes posters.

I don't think i made any implications that the palmer park area alone is going to bring a half million professionals flooding into the city along with countless fortune 500 companies. Frankly I find that idea kinda problematic [[as in the old days of trying to lure in one giant corporation at any cost to solve the economic woes)

I know my way around the city pretty well and if i had any money to bet I would bet on this to be an up and coming area for a few reasons.

1) few areas in the city have a sizable population of apartments [[i think its an even denser apt population than midtown) This sets it apart from most of the city that is almost all single family houses. Lots of people aren't interested in owning a house. We're seeing downtown and midtown start to fill up slowly but steadily. If not palmer park apt area where would people expect to be the next growth area for this population? We seem stuck with the traditional notion in detroit that once an area sees a decline it can't ever be remade to be successful.

2) Naturally crime seems to be the main concern here. Now lets assume that the police are going to be just as unresponsive as most anywhere else in the city for the time being. However, the area in question is also near palmer woods, green acres, etc many of which have private security patrols. I think it would be plausible that private patrols start here. Since its a small, dense area the apartment owners may even be willing to chip in since if effective it would improve their business enough to offset the expense.

3) as for light rail i'll just say this.... none of us has lived long enough to remember when woodward had viable rail service so while I think it will have a big impact its also impossible to fully shoot that notion down until that time comes. This could in fact be an attractive option for someone who works/plays downtown but doesnt want the congestion and expense of living in the cbd. I know I'd consider it.

LOL! Does everything have to hinge on light rail? Ugh... and for sure it will not be 5 minute trip. But main point well taken. Downtown is getting ridiculously expensive. I'd love to see Palmer Park come back to life... the buildings are simply wonderful! This is an area I'd consider living in if it could be rehabbed. Great to see the investment coming forth!!!!!!!

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Originally Posted by Augustiner

Five minutes? It's light rail, not the freaking Concorde.

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Yeah, the crime explosion was crazy when it happened. A close friend of mine moved due that factor alone. Yet having spent time in that area hear and there I was always sad that things went so bad so fast.

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Originally Posted by kryptonite

I lived next to La Vogue about 1982-1983 in the building on 225 Covington. I had two friends that lived in La Vogue at different times. I can barely recall the interior. Palmer Park was getting terrible with crime, muggings were routine as were car thefts and break-ins. Someone broke into three units in my building in one day alone. Mine was one that they attempted to break into, the door was damaged but for some reason they were scared off. I would say at least 25 people I knew at the time all left PP before 1984 because of crime of fear of crime.

If Palmer Park were secure it could be a very nice residential area. The buildings are phenomenal, inside and out. Parking is an issue, but not nearly as bad as places like NYC or San Francisco. The view of the park from certain buildings is nice, there is enough grass and a few trees to give it an aesthetic appeal.

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Six mile is a zoo right around there... I avoid six mile due to the lack of any adherance to traffic lights. They might as well turn them off. It gets a bit better nearer Livernois...

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Originally Posted by davewindsor

Last time I was driving through Palmer Park, I had cars honking like I was insane for stopping at a red light and pass me and whip straight through red lights. That was month ago. Time was around 6-7pm. Maybe they were worried a pedestrian would pull out a gun and carjack them. I don't know. Almost everyone was doing it. It happened at two intersections. It wasn't a yellow light turning red. It was red when I got there and I stopped. They didn't even treat it as a four way stop and stop. They just slowed down a little and whipped right through. Happened twice and I got the hell out of there and back on Woodward because I didn't want to get hit.

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But, that's all moot. There isn't even evidence that there will be a net increase of 1 resident to the city, let alone 20,000 or even the half a million you'll need. So where are the people going to come from? Light rail isn't going to make a difference unless there's a huge surge of decent paying new jobs that light rail would take residents to from stops along Woodward. Light rail is just throwing good money after bad.

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I don't think anyone believes light rail is going to repopulate Detroit. I believe it could help repopulate the Woodward corridor, of which Palmer Park is a part. Nor do I believe that a lot of that population has to come from outside the city--we want to encourage people to move from the prairie to the denser areas, like Palmer Park. You could increase the density along Woodward as the population of the city continues to fall. That wouldn't surprise me at all.

[QUOTE=davewindsor;219481]Last time I was driving through Palmer Park, I had cars honking like I was insane for stopping at a red light and pass me and whip straight through red lights. That was month ago. Time was around 6-7pm. Maybe they were worried a pedestrian would pull out a gun and carjack them. I don't know. Almost everyone was doing it. It happened at two intersections. It wasn't a yellow light turning red. It was red when I got there and I stopped. They didn't even treat it as a four way stop and stop. They just slowed down a little and whipped right through. Happened twice and I got the hell out of there and back on Woodward because I didn't want to get hit.[/QUOTE

Being in the city 5 to 6 days a week, in every area you can think of, I see people run yellow lights all the time. I see see people speeding way over the limits, on every street and expressway in town. Like I said before though, when a light is red I very rarely see anyone ignore it and drive right through, almost everyone waits for the light to change to green. That includes any part of 6 Mile Road. I'm not saying it never happens, I just don't see that very often at all.

Photo update of this beauty!

http://i721.photobucket.com/albums/w...202011/180.jpg
http://i721.photobucket.com/albums/w...202011/183.jpg

Wow, what a beautiful building.

It really is...there are alot of beautiful apartments in that area.

Stromberg2

ROTFL:p! Yeah, I guess the doggone thing would have to stop at least once or twice to pick up riders! Hah... Lest is zip by empty...?

Sometimes I've found myself accelerating driving thru Highland Park on Woodward -- [[just joking!). I don't run lights -- it's a horribly dangerous practice I've observed urban and suburban!

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Originally Posted by Augustiner

Five minutes? It's light rail, not the freaking Concorde.

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Indeed a beautiful building. If the crime can be addressed there could be a turn around of that area. They just don't make buildings like this anymore. Splendid!

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Originally Posted by Mind field

Wow, what a beautiful building.

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What a beautiful building and how great to see it saved and rehabbed. Especially when so many have been lost. It does seem that given the compact nature of this area, private security should be feasible. Bring the gays back to Palmer Park and it will thrive!

This is good news. The most beautiful apartment I've ever been in was in the Palmer Park area. I was visiting a friend who was living with her grandparents. It was like something you see in New York -- many bedrooms, dumbwaiter, servant's quarters, quiet and spacious.

One of the people in academia I admire the most is moving to Detroit this summer -- her husband is opening his office [[can't recall what he does), and she is opening her offices in TechTown. Once she moves in, I'll start a thread about her nonprofit. It shocked my socks off.

Of course, one person does not a trend make. But the creative class is starting to look at Detroit differently. It won't happen right now, but in 20-25 years, with a light rail scenario, I could see the PP area becoming very exclusive again.

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Originally Posted by davewindsor

The area is so lawless that the last time I drove through there cars weren't even stopping and waiting at red lights--they just drove straight through the busy intersection.

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I was there last night and people were stopping at all the lights on McNichols with tedious regularity.

I used to live in PP in the early '80s. La Vogue was just 1 of many beautiful apt buildings. In fact, there are larger impressive architectural examples to be found.... The Trocedero, The Eldorado, Whitemore Plaza, Palmer Lodge... just to name a few. Moorish Revival, Art Deco, Tudor Revival can all be found. And these apt houses were built for the upper middle class, so they tend to have very large rooms and ornate details. Alas... I miss my old neighborhood.

The LaVogue was designed by noted theater architect Cyril Schley.

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Originally Posted by Historyguy

The LaVogue was designed by noted theater architect Cyril Schley.

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Who was mostly into designing movie theaters,you can see the similarities with the balconies.

If Detroit started exploiting its gems and rebuilding instead of destroying it could easily stand out above the crowd.

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Originally Posted by English

This is good news. The most beautiful apartment I've ever been in was in the Palmer Park area. I was visiting a friend who was living with her grandparents. It was like something you see in New York -- many bedrooms, dumbwaiter, servant's quarters, quiet and spacious.

One of the people in academia I admire the most is moving to Detroit this summer -- her husband is opening his office [[can't recall what he does), and she is opening her offices in TechTown. Once she moves in, I'll start a thread about her nonprofit. It shocked my socks off.

Of course, one person does not a trend make. But the creative class is starting to look at Detroit differently. It won't happen right now, but in 20-25 years, with a light rail scenario, I could see the PP area becoming very exclusive again.

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Sounds like 1001 Covington. I lived in PP in the 80s and 1001 was the most beautiful apartment I'd ever seen.

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Originally Posted by trotwood

Sounds like 1001 Covington. I lived in PP in the 80s and 1001 was the most beautiful apartment I'd ever seen.

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Trotwood knows his apartments. 1001 Covington, aka The Walbri, is one of the most beautiful apartment buildings in Detroit. It was designed by Albert Kahn in the '20s and contains only 16 very large apartments. Several years ago it was converted to condos. If you go to their web site, make sure to take a look at the floor plans of the units. The individual apartments compare to those in Indian Village Manor.

http://www.1001covington.com/

^^^^1001 Covington/The Walbri made a huge impression on me Neilr lol. The first time I stepped foot in one of the units my mouth dropped&I couldn't stop saying the word WOW!
Gorgeous is an understament. People throw the word jewel around a lot when talking about Detroit locations. For my money The Walbri should be added to the list of Detroit's jewels! It's a real gem.

A couple recenty interior shots. Note: I had permission to go in, I know a guy working on it.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7001/6...937c728e70.jpg
305 by Zack Blackerby's Detroit, on Flickr

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7172/6...625d1c3b6f.jpg
300 by Zack Blackerby's Detroit, on Flickr

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7012/6...e981d19d4d.jpg
298 by Zack Blackerby's Detroit, on Flickr

Whoa that restoration/renovation looks great! Will these be rentals or condos for sale?

Nice.

Each of those photos shows a small alcove. What was the originally intended purpose of those alcoves? Were they for telephones?

I can't believe such a beautiful renovation in such an otherwise dubious area...magnificent!

Is the whole complex being renovated or just this particular building?

My Dad and I used to deliver the Free Press on Merton in the 70's. The LaVogue was a beautiful building [[the brick work was amazing). My favorite was a couple of buildings down at 275 Merton. Beautiful foyer, amazing brickwork.